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Office Work Ethic In the IT Industry? 709

An anonymous reader writes "As a recent graduate entering industry for the first time at a large software and hardware company, I have been shocked at what seems to be a low standard of work ethic and professionalism at my place of employment, especially in this poor economy. For example, at my company, the large majority of developers seem to each individually waste — no exaggeration — hours of time on the clock every day talking about football, making personal phone calls, gossiping, taking long lunches, or browsing the Internet (including, yes, Slashdot!). Even some of our subcontractors waste time in this manner. Being the 'new guy,' I get stuck with much of the weekend and after-hours grunt work when we inevitably miss deadlines or produce poor code. I'm not in any position to go around telling others to use their time more efficiently. Management seems to tolerate it. I would like to ask Slashdot what methods others have used to deal with office environments such as this. Is my situation unique or is it common across the industry?"
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Office Work Ethic In the IT Industry?

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  • by fantomas ( 94850 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @06:25AM (#30667442)

    I used to work in an IT research group in a university. All of us were single or in relaxed relationships where the other partner was also a professional, so there was no pressure to keep to 'school run' times, pick up kids, get home for set meal times etc. Which meant we worked erratic and long hours. Some days we'd kick back and mess around, other days we'd work late, weekends etc.

    We got a new guy in who laid down the rules politely but firmly with the boss. He said "I've got a 3 year old son and he's the most important thing in my life. I'll come in early, and I'll work hard from 8.30 til 5.00 and if you need me to do more hours I'll even come in earlier. But I leave here at 5.30 to get home for his meal and I don't work weekends because I spend time with my family".

    The guy got a lot of respect for his stance, and he was true to his word. He'd come in bang on time, work damn hard, not goof around when we were kicking back, and leave prompt on 5.30. We all knew if we needed his help on a project we couldn't leave it til 5.25, we had to get organised and get our questions to him for lunchtime.

    I think you should do the same - tell the boss you'll work the hours and you'll work hard while you're in the office but you have other commitments and you'll not be able to pull all nighters. You'll be respected for it. And if they say that this isn't fair, and you should be prepared to sacrifice your life to the job, you should be looking out for other employment.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @06:30AM (#30667460)

    The best interpretation of work time that I ever heard was when I worked in Germany and my boss said that 20% utilization of resources was the perfect score for his performance as a department manager.

    People do spend a lot of time doing other things, that's not to say that they are lazy or unwilling to work, its just the ebb and flow of the workload in many cases.

    If resources got kicked out every time there was a shortage of work, or if businesses closed their doors when revenue slowed down we would end up with a lot of people out of work and an awful lot of businesses unable to show that they can take on a project (having the resources in a workable team is part of the criteria for getting project work).

    Get used to wasting more than a few cycles at the office, find informative things to study, get along with your colleagues by knowing the sports news, the entertainment news and by practicing your people skills (communication). Try to enjoy it, it should make up a big chunk of your life.

    If you are only interested in going to the manager with this viewpoint, you are likely to stand out as a person who doesn't fit in. Good managers know their resources and can usually do a good job of matching resources to workload, that's the whole point of their role.

  • by xaxa ( 988988 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @06:57AM (#30667618)

    This "Ask Slashdot" is a typical reaction of someone who is very very new to the workforce and doesn't understand (yet) it has a human component.

    Clearly I learnt something useful on my placement year :-).

    One of the contractors said to me, "do you realise they only employ you because you cost half what I cost? You're currently working twice as hard as well, next time I walk past your desk I ought to see Facebook, not Java".

    (I was also surprised that working was less stressful than studying. Of course, I had less free time -- I was at work from 9:30 to 17:30, plus I spent longer travelling, but at 17:30 I would walk out and not need to worry about work until 9:30 the next day. My free time at university was spent thinking "I shouldn't be doing this, I've got a project/revision/etc to do")

  • by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @07:01AM (#30667634)

    I know one or two people who are the exception to this. They seem to live for their work and revolve their lives around it much more than most. They are very highly valued but they are not always promoted first or given the best opportunities. They also seem to be the types with little to do when not at work.

    I worked with someone like that. If he ever stopped for a chat it would be about the pros and cons of using a linked list or a circular buffer in various circumstances or something like that. I found out later that when he went home he programmed open source projects. He was the ideal programmer, accurate and highly productive. He needed careful management however because he was only a programmer. A manager once asked him to discuss requirements with a user and both came away angry, the programmer because the user "was being ambiguous" and the user because the programmer "wasn't listening".

  • by Nursie ( 632944 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @07:22AM (#30667740)

    You'd think so wouldn't you?

    I work for one of the biggest names in the business and they seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to stop us producing anything, yet the money keeps flowing in...

    I agree in part though, if your concentration span is 20 minutes you're doing it wrong. When I get into "the zone" I can go for several hours at a time without really even looking up. I just don't do it every day

  • When I were a lad... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Archtech ( 159117 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @07:46AM (#30667876)

    It gets worse... much worse. When I was working for a leading multinational computer vendor back in the 1980s, I distinctly recall beavering away at work while other team members chatted over coffee. I felt rather superior and smug, thinking "Well, even if they are letting the side down, I am making sure the work gets done".

    You could have knocked me over with a feather when, at my next review, my supervisor criticized me sharply for my anti-social behaviour. He told me I should relax, chat more with the others, and generally be more human. The strong implication was that I had actually been undermining morale by failing to socialize and, perhaps, by making some of the others feel guilty.

    As time went by, I found it tempting and easy to start slacking myself - especially if I was getting no credit, but actually harming my career prospects, by working flat out all shift (and sometimes several hours beyond).

    That's how Wally came to be the way he is today!

  • by AuMatar ( 183847 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @07:50AM (#30667890)

    Who cares if its not the political approach? You aren't going to be working for them 30 years from now. It's unlikely you're going to be working for them in 5. Lay it out how it's going to be, and enforce it. That's the only way management will get it. I suppose if you want to be management some day that may be a bad idea, but you'd need to double my salary to even consider that move.

    Now I'm not saying there aren't limited times where you can/should put in a few extra hours. If you fucked up causing the need for overtime, then you should. If you're going to be rewarded monetarily or with comp time, then it's ok. Otherwise it should be very infrequent.

    And as another thing- if you're pulling OT because of a lot of missed deadlines- why were the deadlines missed? I find 90% of the time that the deadline was unobtainable from the get-go. If that's the case it has to be a the company crashes and burns situation for me to put in extra hours, and then I expect to be rewarded for it. You should not be killing yourself to make up for management's mistakes.

    This seems to be getting worse not better recently, with so many companies jumping on "agile" methodologies for projects with fixed feature sets and deadlines, as an excuse to not put adequate time into design and planning. If the actual calendar date is what's most important, you better either be willing to drop a ton of features or have a lot of flex written into the schedule. I used to work in firmware where missing the date could cause tens of thousands in loss due to factories that were rented but not producing. The answer was to double all of our time estimates so we were certain we could meet the date, and to heavily triage bugs as the date neared, dropping a layer of severity into will not fix every week or so. We never missed it, although we always went over the original estimate for something.

  • Re:Websites (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kijori ( 897770 ) <ward.jake @ g m a i l . c om> on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @08:08AM (#30668002)

    Many people browse IT websites at work. In this industry, how to you propose we keep ourselves updated? You sound like one of those irritating prudes who can't understand how the normal world works.

    Firstly, if you're meeting deadlines and producing quality code then this seems reasonable - but the submitter specifically states that his colleagues aren't. A lot of people here seem to be over-generalising this - it isn't an attack on IT in general, it's a specific case where people have taken things too far and their work is suffering.

    Secondly, the majority of web browsing isn't them keeping themselves updated. I know it wasn't when I was working as a programmer, and I'm sure it isn't for you either. Even if you are working on a huge, over-arching project that uses dozens of different components and a wide variety of ideas there's no way they change often enough to justify more than 10-20 minutes web browsing a day. That isn't to say there aren't other uses of the internet for an IT worker, or even that personal use of the web should be banned - people need to relax from time to time. Just that if you aren't meeting your deadlines because you're on the web all day it's time to stop pretending it's helping you and accept that you need to knuckle down.

  • by Octorian ( 14086 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @08:41AM (#30668194) Homepage

    That reminds me of once when I worked on a day that the rest of the office was completely empty. I don't think I was able to keep myself there past 7 hours total.

    Of course when I spend the day in some coffee shop working on my own projects, I find myself to be much more focused and productive. Probably because it feels a lot more like "getting something done" and less like "putting in my hours against a charge number."

    I also find the Two-Hour Rule [kenrockwell.com] to be an interesting (and probably valid) observation.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @08:51AM (#30668274)

    I knew someone who was working for a big company doing some coding. This person would show up for work on time, punch-in (or clock-in) to show that this person was there... THEN, would have the computer going, and on an occasion more than you would expect, would leave the building, get into the car, go home get into another car that had the hang glider on it, drive a couple of hours to a prime hang gliding spot, meet with friends, go soaring for much of the day, get back into the vehicle with hang glider on the top, drive home, get back into regular car, drive to work go in for an hour or so, and then punch or clock out of work. Putting in a full day at work. Management at the company was so out of touch (had no clue what folks did in IT at all) that this was possible and this person was NEVER missed while not at work. They NEVER missed this person at all. OH - collected a fat check every week doing this.

    So - this is a problem. AND the problem is that people who are not geeks or IT folks have no clue what is going on in tech at all. That is their problem!

    The other problem is that the work ethic has slipped off quite a bit and due to this, others are being hired or work is outsourced to places (as management is concerned that deadlines are missed, and have meeting s about this, and find that maybe the work does get done at less cost if outsourced to a firm that does enforce or encourage a positive work ethic (and each employee feels involved in the positive direction of the company SO MUCH that they want to work harder). So, the problem starts at the top... and then becomes a culture of non-workers if the proper attitude is not in place from the start. If the DNA is wrong at the start, then the only thing to do to get productivity back is to relocate, rehire everyone, and start again from scratch. OR just use Open Source GPL software where everyone is part of a larger group and is proud of their work (as it is eventually being judged by their peers).

  • by Nursie ( 632944 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @09:04AM (#30668370)

    100?

    I've seen people quote 10.

    By the time you've factored in design, coding unit tests, debugging, beta programs, documenting and specifying everything... 10 lines a day of rock solid code on average.

    That said I produce about 10K a year (50 per day) at peak productivity. On average across multiple years.

  • by characterZer0 ( 138196 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @09:13AM (#30668434)

    If everybody worked hard for 40 hours a week, 25% of the working population could do 100% of the work, and we'd have a 75% unemployment rate. Or 75% of the population in marketing.

  • by ignavus ( 213578 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @09:39AM (#30668670)

    The solutions to so many design problems pop into my head while I'm walking to get coffee or on my lunchbreak it's not funny.

    The shower. Best place to solve programming problems. Because there is no keyboard to distract you from the problem. You are just standing there, mind in idle mode ... so your mind plays with problems and doesn't get hung up about having to solve them right now.

  • by Vermyndax ( 126974 ) <vermyndax&galaxycow,com> on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @09:56AM (#30668826) Homepage

    I jumped from the broadcast industry to the software industry once and had the same thought... I was shocked at how much time was spent in hallway discussions and whatnot.

    Then I realized most of the discussions from the developers were centered around the code itself and creative approaches to solving problems. The sales and management folks were the ones walking around and talking about football. I decided this was part of the job. But you're right, there is a lot of time wasted in hallway discussions. ...and so, like they said earlier... enjoy your Sundays working...

  • by SuurMyy ( 1003853 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:04AM (#30668912) Homepage
    I once worked from home for two weeks. It took me about 7 hours to get about 4 hours of actual programming done.

    I also learned that it's way more fun to be in the office w/other people than working like this for more than a few days at a time.
  • by aurispector ( 530273 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:13AM (#30668988)

    There you go again putting coders on a pedestal again. I'm a dentist: if something isn't done right I get a call about it at 9 o'clock at night & I might even get sued. I have to manage people's emotions and experiences while doing tiny, intricate and detailed work on teeth in a mouth that's moving and complaining the entire time and in the process I get exposed to a variety of body fluids that may or may not contain pathogens. The entire procedure has to be prepared ahead of time and every step has to be completed properly before the next step can begin - and if the procedure is not completed it's illegal for me to bill insurance until it is - we don't get paid for incomplete work. There are often several patients seated simultaneously so there are several different processes to be managed at once. Every single one of those patients expects and deserves my undivided attention. Doing it right the first time so you don't waste time doing it over is a guiding principle.

    I don't think what I do is unique - it's similar to a head chef in a restaurant managing his line chefs. Coders need to drop the "attitude" and recognize that their efficiency contributes directly to the bottom line. If your organization can't get it done there's one over in India or China willing to step up. Enjoy your future unemployment!

  • by kiwimate ( 458274 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:22AM (#30669094) Journal

    Hear hear. Down time is definitely necessary, but hours chatting about football? I know what this guy is talking about, because I see exactly the same at my place of work (not an IT company but a company with a large IT division).

    Before I came here, I had been a consultant my entire career. I sometimes fantasize about the IT guys here being told to fill out timesheets showing what they were doing in six minute increments, just as an experiment for a few weeks, which is what I used to have to do.

    When I joined this company, I thought I was being eased in because it was very relaxed and easy to finish my tasks, and everyone around me was complaining and frantic because they were so busy and pressured. Took me a few weeks to recognize that:

    1. they had no idea what real pressure was;
    2. it does make it hard to get your work done in the time allotted if you come in to work at 9:30 or 10:00, talk about fantasy football for an hour and a half non-stop, take a two hour lunch, and then waltz out of the door at 4:30 or 5:00;
    3. special case here, perhaps, but most of the guys in that group were inept and would take three to four times as long to do something as it should've taken.

    The IT guys in this company (who very much resemble the original poster's colleagues) wouldn't last a week in any of my old consulting jobs, and would get a real shock if they had to work in other divisions of this company. I liaise a lot with the business units and those people work hard. And yet, the sense of entitlement is incredible.

    I understand and agree with the need for breaks. But this poster is clearly describing a situation of extreme idleness, where there are problems with both workers and management.

    What I read about in the post, and what I see in my current company,is a group of spoiled whiny brats who (at least at work) act like they're still in a college fraternity, despite being in their 30s and married with children, and are in a company where management doesn't have the courage to do anything about it. It is not everywhere; I've worked as a consultant in plenty of other companies, and this kind of behavior and attitude would simply not be tolerated in most places. But it's far too prevalent amongst IT people.

    Two final observations: in the places where I've seen this kind of behavior tolerated, the grandiose self-image of highly skilled tech wizardry is a complete illusion. The worst offenders are the individuals who've been doing the job for several years and still don't know the basics. (E.g. senior admins who don't understand how file and share permissions work.) Secondly, it's the server admins who are lazy and inept, not the developers. The developers I've worked with are professional and take pride in their work. Take from this what you will.

  • by lena_10326 ( 1100441 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:46AM (#30669388) Homepage

    Is my situation unique or is it common across the industry?

    Not unique but not extremely common. Your team is clearly broken and your management isn't being measured against stated goals therefore your teammates are not measured by against their sub-goals. I presume the group is failing to record and reiterate--on a daily basis--the tasks identified to accomplish them. What you need is to adopt a system that surfaces who is working on what, what the volume of work is, and how much time is required. In our group, we use scrum to manage that. You can use something else but your team should be using something as opposed to nothing and allowing chaos to reign.

    Scrum is not perfect and occasionally it can be annoying (such as after having a bad day and not having progress to show), but it's simple and incurs a relatively low overhead demand on bookkeeping. We use it because it helps everyone stay informed of the bigger picture by what user stories we're working on. It gives us a visual feel of how much work there is to do, helps enforce who is working on what, and shows our progress within the sprint at a daily resolution. It also helps develop a log of milestones, and improves individual productivity because it strongly emphasizes priorities first and makes it obvious who's getting things done, who's spinning their wheels on difficult problems, and who's blocked by teammate or external dependencies.

    More importantly, it's designed for sculpting a team that self-organizes and self-manages. Since your team's management is weak, pushing for self-organization is important. You will need buy-in at many levels, but you may find if you write a proposal with your recommendation and argue why it's needed, you might flesh out supporters who needed prodding.

    Doing this will show initiative and motivation. You will stand out amongst your more experienced but lazy teammates. A good developer provides well written recommendations that identifies a particular problem, argues why it is a problem, enumerates a list of solutions, and finishes by selecting one of them. Unless your recommendation is ridiculous, issuing it should give you a boost by showing you have leadership skills. Management not recognizing that would truly indicate a broken team.

    Scrum is not likely to be done well unless someone on the team goes through the training, so if I were you I would recommend the team experiment with selecting and using a software development model (Agile/Scrum/XP/RUP/etc). Shipping a few developers off for training, or bringing in a trainer for a few days would be a good idea.

    Give it a year. If in the end you cannot cause change, then log it as a learning experience and move on. Use what you saw to identify the same symptoms during your next job search.

    Being the 'new guy,' I get stuck with much of the weekend and after-hours grunt work when we inevitably miss deadlines or produce poor code

    The new guy always tends to get stuck with the less interesting or maintenance work. That's expected because you haven't proven your value or had a chance to build relationships. It can take time to learn the system before taking on high profile tasks, but it's absolutely unacceptable if they expect you to work more hours than they work. If you're pulling weekends and they aren't then that's an abusive situation. Part of getting ahead is showing leadership and drive, but the other part is knowing how to play the defensive game by proving due diligence on your part and pushing back when required.

  • by barzok ( 26681 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:50AM (#30669446)

    Being the 'new guy,' I get stuck with much of the weekend and after-hours grunt work when we inevitably miss deadlines or produce poor code.

    As you're also a recent graduate, I'm guessing that you're also single or at most have a girlfriend you're not living with, and have no kids. Probably very few other family obligations too.

    I've been there. Got shat on endlessly. Everyone else takes advantage of your situation, saying "I can't work that weekend/late tonight, I have to do something with my kids" or something like that. You're stuck on-call every week, working late 3 days a week, working every Sunday, all because everyone sees your non-work life as less important because you don't have a spouse or kids.

    You need to put a stop to it. Don't refuse every time you're asked, but at least once a month if you're asked to work a weekend, you need to say no. Tell them you're going away skiing for the weekend with friends. You have to go visit your ailing grandmother. Even if it's not true. They tell you someone has to stay late on Wednesday? "Sorry, that's my dinner/poker night with the guys."

    If a disproportionate amount of the after-hours/weekend work is falling on your shoulders, go to your supervisor. Being a team player is important - being a doormat is dangerous.

  • by asmo79 ( 1714702 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:51AM (#30669458)
    When I first started in I.T. my group manager left after a a few months, and they never bothered to replace him, so our group started reporting to the PHB, and he pretty much forgot about us. At first I thought it was great, I was coming in late, leaving early, working on my own projects, but eventually it just got me down. I was doing nothing productive, and my skills were stagnating, so I made the decision to up anchor and leave. What followed was a rollercoaster tour of various office hells and nirvanas. hells: *The startup with lots of work to do but insane micromanaging boss who never leaves you alone long enough to get anything done. *The established company moving into a new field with grand ideas, but which never gets around to actually signing anything off and wastes your time and theirs. *The agency who just puts you somewhere and doesn't care if your not suitable, as long as they can bill for you. All these places drove me mad, and I spoke up about it, and I had the balls to get up and leave if they weren't right for me and vice versa. heavens: *Companies who recognise your skills, and trust you to get on with the job. I'm currently contracting right now, and today I haven't wrote much. I've surfed the web, replied here, etc. But, we are in a downtime, I'm waiting for feedback and I'm refactoring bits of code, etc. The main thing I am doing however is thinking about how to make my product better, and seeing how others do things. And that looks a lot like doing nothing. Some companies are a complete waste of time, full of people happy to sit on their butts and cash money they don't earn. If your happy with that go with it, but sooner or later reality will bite and you will realise you know f**k all about anything. But, the main part of a programmers job in my expereince is thinking before they code, and if your in a company that recognises that then your are in a good position. Sounds to me though that the OP is in a sh**e company though and needs to move ASAP.
  • by Nadaka ( 224565 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:53AM (#30669476)

    Software Development is hard work, so is construction. How often do you drive by a work site and see half the crew standing around and chatting? Fairly often I would bet. The rest of the time they are busting their ass. Software development is the same, except its the muscle between your ears you have to flex. It is part of the job, get used to it. There will be idle time, you will need to decompress.

  • by Atrox666 ( 957601 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:54AM (#30669492)

    I used to kill myself. Work my ass off. I accepted excuses as to why I couldn't get a raise or a promotion even though I was told I earned one. People I learned were making big bonuses were telling me there was no money for bonuses. Then the excuses started to pile up year after year and I watched other people who worked less and had less responsibility get paid more because they were not IT. I watched it happen to all my co-workers too so I know it wasn't something I was doing. So if I can't get paid more I just give less. I'm naturally a hard worker so I had to train myself but now I'm happy to say I am taking advantage of the fucking parasites who were ever so happy to take advantage of me. It's not a good relationship or the one I would have chosen but at least I'm no longer the bitch. I'd type more but I got in late so it's almost time for my coffee break.

  • by farrellj ( 563 ) * on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @10:55AM (#30669510) Homepage Journal

    Most managers do not realize that writing code is a *CREATIVE* endeavour...it's not an matter of simply putting parts together like a worker on an assembly line! Some of my best coding was done at 3 am, all the lights out except for my monitor, stereo blasting Ministry's Psalm 69 at just under ear-bleed levels. Most people couldn't code in that environment, in fact, most people would have a hard time even *thinking* in that environment...but for me, it was pure code heaven.

    ttyl
              Farrell

  • by Zarf ( 5735 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:01AM (#30669576) Journal

    "I knew someone who was working for a big company doing some coding."

    "Management at the company was so out of touch (had no clue what folks did in IT at all) that this was possible and this person was NEVER missed while not at work."

    If the person was a software engineer, or even a coder, he isn't in "IT". There is a reason why companies have an IT department, and then a completely seperate department called software engineeing. An IT guy needs to be in the building to help employees, repair and replace bad hardware, and do general system maintanence, etc. A software engineer , on the other hand, may well be working on the drive, and while actually hang gliding. This used to piss me off when I worked at a company where the management didn't get this: Just because I'm outside drinking a coffe and smoking a cigarette doesn't mean I'm not working! In fact, just because I'm sleeping, that doesn't mean I'm not working. I have woken many times with the solution to a problem I had been trying to solve for days clear in my mind, that bubbled up from my subconscious while in delta (dream state.)

    If you think a true software developer should spend most of his time in front of a computer writing code, then it is you who has no idea what is involved in developing great software.

    This is honestly why I think being a Software Engineer is more like being a writer than it is anything else. No, being a Software Engineer is NOT being a writer... just they are the most similar in working styles. The writer (as a reporter, researcher, journalist, or just fiction writer) runs off to research things and does stuff that looks a lot like goofing off for weeks at a time to sit down one day an in a flurry produce something the company then takes and sells for millions. Truly new and innovative software requires lots and lots of field work. If that SE was writing software about flying then hang-gliding might be very important research.

  • by RabidMonkey ( 30447 ) <canadaboy.gmail@com> on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:07AM (#30669644) Homepage

    In my office, I see the same thing. Myself and some others tend to be heads down, work work work, but that's because we have a LOT of work to do, and only 8 hours a day to get it done in. The joys of working in a large production environment that is constantly growing

    Beside our group are 2 groups of people who work in labs, testing things before they go into prod. they seem to frequently have time to stand around, chat, have lunch (what a novelty!) etc, while myself and a couple others rarely have enough free time to grab some lunch and eat it in peace.

    For a long time, it drove me nuts (and still does when I'm having a hectic day and hear them laughing it or, or worse, they come into our group just to chat), but I came to the conclusion that so long as i am getting what I have committed to doing done, I don't care what others do. My teamlead and manager have set expectations, I have my own expectations, and so long as I meet those, then I am content. It can get frustrating when work isn't evenly distributed, but I look at that as partly my fault, for taking on extra work and striving to deliver something that doesn't simply meet requirements. I can't fault others for my own expectations.

    Plus, I decided to try and join them occasionally for social time,and find that it actually helps. When everyone is standing around chatting, I not only get a break, but I get to know my coworkers better, so when I, or they, need help with a problem, it's much easier to approach and relate and get things done quickly. It's a tradeoff in time, and I use it liberally, but it's good to get up from my desk and give my brain a break sometimes.

    The sooner you realize that you can't change how others work, only how you work, and that some people will always seem to get away with doing nothing for some reason, the sooner you'll find comfort/peace in the workplace. If you really want to fix things, work your way into a TL position, or even just a leadership position of some sort, so you can nudge people the way you think they should go. ultimately though, it's up to the person, and their manager, to adjust a work ethic.

    Best of luck!

  • get real... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:13AM (#30669714)

    In working with intellectual property professionals for a long time, I understand both sides of this. The work is hard. Every "knowledge worker" has their own way of doing things. You cannot schedule creativity. The value of human relationships in the workplace often cannot be quantified. But - and this is a BIG BUT - if left to their own devices, a lot of these folks will go totally overboard with the non-productive activities and even begin to rationalize it (as we have clearly seen in these posts) as an entitlement and a necessary part in the process - even when it is not. Work is supposed to be hard, and to meet a deadline sometimes one has to push their way through a problem rather than waiting for the solution to eventually present itself (if it ever does). Maybe the resulting code is not as elegant and will have to be optimized at some point, but at least progress is being made.

    The situation the original post describes exists because 1) it is often hard to observe the difference when someone is mulling over a problem, taking a needed break, or is just goofing off; 2) management is doing the same thing and cannot lead by example; 3) management is totally ill-equipped to deal with "knowledge workers" to help them better self-monitor the use of their time; 4) the bubble has yet to burst in this situation so no one cares enough to fix it yet.

    As far as this newbie is concerned, if you don't like it, you can start looking for a place to work that is more suited to your work style. Don't be surprised if you cannot find it, however. You may have to find a few folks who think like you and create your own business to get the environment you seek.

    In the meantime:

    Keep your mouth shut about your opinion of the lack of work ethic for now, as the person who rocks the boat is the most likely to get thrown overboard by the others.
    Try to maintain your work ethic by getting your work done in a reasonable time frame and a reasonable rate.
    Check out other places doing the work your company does and see if the work culture is any different.
    When you can do it without ticking off the bosses, stop working the overtime when others are not. The group should not be counting on you to prop up their lazy and sloppy work habits.
    Start taking management courses. If you are actually the most productive member of the team, one day you may be called upon to lead- at least informally. Be ready to do it. Be ready to accept a promotion IF it comes your way (just remember, though, advancement is often who you know, not what you know, or what you can do). If you get lucky and get promoted to management, be ready to lead by example and help clean up this mess.
    Start looking for other opportunities, because if this place is a bad as you say, the bubble will burst someday and you might be out of a job before you are ready to move on your terms.

    Regards.

  • by BobMcD ( 601576 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:24AM (#30669838)

    all the good people already left for the western economies where they get paid more

    I heard they're returning, though, due to the slump. They earn less over at home, but their cost of living is lower and they would stand a decent shot at being a manager instead of a production employee.

  • by osgeek ( 239988 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:37AM (#30670108) Homepage Journal

    Ignore the haters telling you to relax and join the herd. They wouldn't know what a hard day's work or real productivity looks like anyhow, so you can't turn to them for good advice on making use of your solid work ethic. They'll do nothing but try to bring you down to their level because you make them look bad or face the uncomfortable truth that they suck at their chosen profession. Look to people giving you positive advice that will let you grow and succeed.

    That said, don't bust your ass doing a buch of work for lazy coworkers who will take credit for your sweat and/or managers too corrupt or stupid to notice what you're doing. These people will suck your soul and waste your valuable time during these years when you could be learning so much about how to reach new levels of personal performance. If you're going to stay where you are, you need to "manage up" to see if you can start getting noticed for the job you're doing. Avoid the temptation to take on a lot of small tasks in your current environment. You'll never get any more credit for all the hard work than the guy next to you who simply manages to look busy but web surfs half the day. Get your manager's agreement to break down the current project into specific pieces that you can take ownership of and deliver apart from your coworkers. That way, when you deliver your piece it's obvious who did it, how well it works, and how on time it was. On a technical level, it's also great to break things out anyway to avoid overly tight component coupling.

    Maneuvering things so that you can better benefit from your work ethic involves some politicking, which sucks, but you don't want to be used by those around you and never get anything out of it.

    If you spend a few months working the personal ownership angle and it gets you nowhere, then you may need to cut your losses and switch to another company. My personal preference is to work at small companies where you can negotiate for better merit-based rewards like stock options, profit sharing, or performance bonuses. At a small company, your efforts will be obvious and your opportunities to learn and succeed will be greater. You'll also find more people like you from whom you can learn at small companies. They'll be looking to create successful products rather than to just punch in to collect a paycheck. Screw-ups normally latch on to the big companies where they can fade into the cubicle farms.

    Look at the pathetic work ethic of your current environment as an opportunity to outshine them and people like them.

    Good luck!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 06, 2010 @11:40AM (#30670134)

    We launched a major Agile effort in our shop and the daily deliverables and scrums seem to help keep people on track. Fortunately, the scrum masters aren't horse-driver types.

    Corey

Love may laugh at locksmiths, but he has a profound respect for money bags. -- Sidney Paternoster, "The Folly of the Wise"

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