2 Displays and 2 Workspaces With Linux and X? 460
Borov writes "I'm planning to buy a second monitor in near future and I was searching for ways to configure it under Linux. It seems there are two main ways: 1) to have one 'big' desktop, which means I have single workspace — changing virtual desktop switches both monitors or 2) to have separate X sessions for each display — which means I have separate workspaces, but I can't move applications between them. I need something in the middle — a separate workspace for each screen, so that I can have independent virtual desktops on each screen, but still have the ability to move applications between monitors (no need to strech one app across both of them). I've read that some tiling window managers can do this kind of thing, but I'd rather go with 'classical' window managers, like Openbox/Gnome/KDE or similar."
tiling (Score:2, Informative)
Awesome (Score:1, Informative)
Not a 'classical" window manager but the only one that can do this afaik.
http://awesome.naquadah.org/
4 Screens (Score:5, Informative)
I have 4 screen using 2 nvida 9500 cards and KDE.
I have one X session. By not using Xinerama my maximize button is limited to the size of the two screens on one card. I can stretch the window to full size using all 4 screens.
I also use multiple desktops to manage windows.
Right now each screen gets its own window. When I need to look and wide things(log files) I maximize to two screens. For really big things I can stretch the window to all four screens.
gnome is just fine. (Score:2, Informative)
gnome with two screens is just fine. you can maximize on either side and even use the window list say one panel per screen to show what windows are open on each display.
most distros dont even need configuring for dualscreen now.
Gnome + Twinview (Score:1, Informative)
Google (Score:5, Informative)
30 seconds with Google points me to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpra [wikipedia.org]
xpra or X Persistent Remote Applications is a tool which allows you to run X programs usually on a remote host and then direct their display to your local machine without losing any state. It differs from standard X forwarding in that it allows disconnection and reconnection without disrupting the forwarded application
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmove [wikipedia.org]
xmove is a computer program that allows the movement of X Window System applications between different displays and the persistence of X applications across X server restarts[3]. It solves a problem in the design of X, where an X client (an X application) is tied to the X server (X display) it was started on for its lifetime. Also, if the X server is shut down, the client application is forced to stop running.
Have you investigated any of these before 'asking /.'?
I'd fire up a second X session on your machine - you can run multiple instances of X with a single monitor after all, and try moving apps between your sessions. Get that to work and everything should be (mostly) trivial after you get your new monitor.
Re:4 Screens (Score:5, Informative)
Last I checked, KDE + NVIDIA is the way to go; GNOME doesn't really support multiple monitors in anything but a combined mode.
Enlightenment (Score:5, Informative)
My setup (Score:3, Informative)
I use nvidia twinview on the monitors with Gnome. I also have 3 virtual desktops that I access via edge flipping on the vertical axis. I find this workas alot better than arranging the flipping on the sides with 2 large monitors.
Re:Enlightenment (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Very good question. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Enlightenment +1 (Score:4, Informative)
it's really stable, I've not seen a crash or anything for months.
More importantly: I've only ever seen the window manager crash, but it has never brought down X with it. When it crashes, it gives you a very helpful (and ugly) dialog which allows you to restart the window manager. In the 3 years of using e17, I have never had a single application crash or data loss. And the last e17 crash is from 2008, I think.
Oh, and: mod parent up.
Re:Google (Score:5, Informative)
I tried xpra to hold the mail/news/calendar (Kontact) application in KDE, and it crashed after about a day... So I wouldn't recommend it personally, or at least not yet. As for xmove, the xpra FAQ states it has been without maintenance since 1997.
Re:dual monitor (Score:1, Informative)
not tested it yet but i believe xmonad may be of use to you as i say not tested it yet . but the mailing list seems to be very active .
Re:Very good question. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Google (Score:3, Informative)
Which part of the summary do you believe I missed?
He wants separate x sessions - both of these solutions are designed for such an instance. Most folk would use them on separate machines but I see no indication they won't work on a local box with multiple X sessions running.
He would prefer a classical window manager. He can run whatever window manager he likes - these apps allow the move of an X application from one X server to another.
Re:Anti-Slashdot answer (Score:3, Informative)
Actually there is a powertoy that gives you virtual desktops, called desktops. There are some limitations, such as you can't move stuff between desktops, and some apps get pissy about launching; once you learn to live with the limitations its a great app to have.
Re:Very good question. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:2, Informative)
The first three mention either xrandr or xinerama. Didn't check beyond that.
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:4, Informative)
Probably "xinerama and xrandr"
When searching for an answer, it helps to know the answer.
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:5, Informative)
xinerama + xrandr does not solve the question posed by the OP. Xinerama allows the two alternatives mentioned in the OP as the undesired options (i.e. either two monitors as one screen sharing a workspace, or a separate screen on each monitor which does not allow moving windows between screens).
OP wants two monitors with their own separate workspaces, while still being able to drag windows between them.
In other words, OP wants to be able to transfer running applications between separate X screens, which to my knowledge is not currently possible (or, if it's possible, the functionality is not exposed in Gnome or KDE).
This isn't "+1 Insightful", it's "-1 Didn't bother reading the OP" (or "-1 Doesn't really know what xinerama+xrandr does").
Re:Anti-Slashdot answer (Score:2, Informative)
There are any number of utilities that will give you multiple virtual desktops on Windows, while retaining Windows' native multi-display features.
In fact, one comes from Sysinternals, which is now part of Microsoft itself. It's called Desktops. It only does 4 virtual desktops though, so if that's not enough, you'll have to look elsewhere.
--Jeremy
Re:Go away, TROLL! (Score:5, Informative)
With the one large desktop when you maximize a window it fills both monitors
No it doesn't. Most window managers have handled multihead the way you saw Windows 7 does for some years now (five or six, I think).
Re:Synergy (Score:3, Informative)
You don't need synergy for that. Xinerama lets you do that natively. What the OP wants to do is be able to move windows between X screens.
Have You Actually Tried It? (Score:4, Informative)
I have had a computer running Linux (Fedora of one flavor or another) with two displays for getting on to be most of a decade. Wouldn't work seriously any other way. I have 12 desktops (one for each Fn key on standard keyboards), which are linked so that both monitors switch at the same time.
If you haven't TRIED this sort of setup yet (and it sounds very much like you have not), then I would encourage you to try it first. What problem are you trying to solve with being able to switch monitors individually? WIndows can be trivially moved between virtual desktops under Linux, and with single keystroke desktop switching (remember those Fn keys?) I find that I rarely, if ever, need to move applications from one desktop to another. To promote efficiency, I have adopted, over the years, a standard pattern of where given windows are. The details are good for me, but not necessarily anyone else, so I won't go through the particulars, but, just as one example, when I want to use a browser, I hit F6, and BOOM, there are two browser windows at full screen. When I need an editor, another single keystroke (F3, if you care), and BOOM, emacs on the left, and, usually, an xterm on the right. Fully maximized. Moving windows around and resizing them is a waste of time and screen area. Twelve desktops maps nicely to the Fn keys -- which, again, is why I have 12, and, again is why switching between applications is 1-keystroke-instantaneous -- and I cannot recall running out of room, ever.
If the reason you want to switch workspaces individually is that you don't have enough flexibility in your workspaces (like you only have four per monitor), then you're solving the wrong problem. Increase the number of workspaces you have. Also, stop putting the task bar on the long dimension of the monitor -- that's the one where you have the least distance to play with. And if you're doing any document-based work, then it's a MUST to use portrait orientation.
Or were you just going to dick around, switching the left workspace, then the right one, then the left, then the right?
When people join my lab, they universally comment on how efficient my work setup is ... and usually leave using a very similar setup themselves.
Re:Anti-Slashdot answer (Score:3, Informative)
Virtual Workspace addons for Windows? They're all crap. That goes triple for the "powertoy" one.
Re:Very good question. (Score:5, Informative)
yes. probably Awesome WM. There is such a picture on the Awesome homepage (http://awesome.naquadah.org/). It's often advertised as a tiling manager and Julien Danjou seems to have been so upset about that that the 3.4 release now defaults to floating layout on all tags (you can default any tag to tiling or floating, and in the case of multiple monitors, you can have a tilingbehaviour on one monitor, and a floating one on the other monitor, and move windows and applications back and forth).
Awesome is indeed awesome, if you don't mind some manual editing of the lua configuration file.It should fit the OP's requirement nicely. Additionally, it's a blast on netbooks
Putty vs. Cygwin (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Google (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:5, Informative)
It would be cool if macs did that, but they don't. So getting a mac is totally useless for him.
Re:Use a specialized Window Manager (Score:3, Informative)
Re:xinerama and xrandr (Score:1, Informative)
Maybe I am stupid. But what's the difference between a big desktop over two monitors, and separate desktops, while still moving windows from one side to the other? I have two monitors, with one big desktop (Nvidia twinview) with KDE. Both sides have a separate task bar where I switch windows on each side locally. Maximizing a window happens within one monitor. But you can stretch the window over both monitors. I can, if I want, place different pictures as background on each monitor. What is not possible with my setup, you want to do? Do you want the window decorator to change while dragging windows? Have one monitor play a screensaver?
Re:gnome is just fine. (Score:3, Informative)
I just want to second this. I have two monitors and one desktop stretched over both, but with gnome if you maximize a window it will snap to the edges of just the monitor it's on. You can stretch any window across both monitors, but you don't have to. I also duplicated the top and bottom panels from the 'main' monitor (my left) to the 'secondary' (my right). The task bars (gnome calls them 'Window Lists') on each monitor show just the windows on that monitor. You could have the gnome menu at the top left of each monitor, and the fast user switcher and date/time at the top right so it would really feel like two separate desktops.
Re:Very good question. (Score:2, Informative)
Win + w/e to switch focus between screens
Win + tab to cycle through windows
Win + 1-9 to switch between workspaces on active screen
Win + Shift + 1-9 to send active window to workspace of choice
It was a pretty steep learning curve at first since the config is written in haskell, but totally worth it.
You can have floating windows if you really want to, but who wants to drag around windows all the time
This is a first (Score:5, Informative)
Smug answers from Windows users AND smug answers from Linux users - and neither group seems to actually understand the questions the poster is asking!
He wants independent desktops, guys. All these silly "Jus use Windows 7, dummy" and "Use Xinerama, idiot" responders are not grasping that fundamental point - you're all thinking of one large desktop that spans multiple monitors. Basically you're confusing desktops with viewports.
Unfortunately I don't know the answer either - but I do think I at least understand the question...
Re:Go away, TROLL! (Score:5, Informative)
That's true and it does not depend on which operating system you're using.
It was extremely easy to setup in Linux long before Windows 7 came out.
Of course. In Linux, or at least in KDE, there are several other easy ways to handle window resizing. If you mid-click in the maximize button the window is maximized vertically but it keeps the original horizontal size. Conversely, if you right-click in the maximize button the window is maximized horizontally and keeps the vertical size. Want to fine-tune the window size? Press the ALT key and the right mouse button simultaneously, the cursor will grab the *nearest* window border, no need to hit the *exact* pixels of the border.
If you say so. All I know is that it's trivial in Linux, but I always hear people complaining they must install Cygwin and puTTY and I don't know what else to run Xwindow in Windows.
Re:Wow (Score:3, Informative)
What do you mean? How do you enable multiple desktops on Windows without 3rd party software?
The OP is not talking about spreading the desktop over multiple screens which is what most distributions do.
He want to combine multiple screens and multiple desktops in a way that is not common. I personally like the OP's suggestion but apparently we must be in the minority since only Enlightenment does it that way...
That said, multiple screens have a long history of being harder on Linux due to driver issues. I believe people are usually quite successful using the NVIDIA drivers and tools. I got decent results with my EEE PC 701 and a TV. But I don't use it much so it does not really count.
Re:4 Screens (Score:3, Informative)
Xfce4 + Nvidia also works pretty well, Xfce4 handles multiple desktops with multiple monitors just fine.
xmonad and gnome/kde can live together (Score:1, Informative)
I spent months trying to do the same thing with a normal window manager but I never found a way that worked well. xmove sounded promising but I couldn't get it to run. Now I use xmonad and it behaves exactly the way I want. You can set it up with window decorations and run it in Gnome [haskell.org] and whatever else you want to do. It's really not as big of a leap as you think it is. If you're scared of the "tiling" aspect, you can set every workspace to floating and it will never do any tiling.
Re:4 Screens (Score:3, Informative)
KDE has it's own compositing manager, it doesn't use Compiz.
Re:Anti-Slashdot answer (Score:2, Informative)
The powertoy one is pretty terrible, falls over, loses windows, etc.
I thoroughly recommend using VirtuaWin [sourceforge.net] instead.
(I'm currently stuck with Windows at work, and it does most things GNOME virtual desktops can do.)
It's called Zaphod mode (Score:3, Informative)
The latter option mentioned in the summary - each monitor being a distinct X session - is sometimes called Zaphod mode.
I have opted for it myself, but the downside of not being able to drag windows is sometimes a real pain. You can mitigate this to some degree for text programs using screen or dtach. I am interested in trying out xpra, which promises to be like 'screen for x-windows', but I haven't had time yet.
Another issue is that some programs, like Firefox, don't like to run multiple instances. So if you fire it up on one session while it's running on the other, it will try to connect to the existing instance but fail because its on a different session. I work around this with a small script that detects what screen firefox is running on and prepends the appropriate DISPLAY variable.
Re:Google (Score:3, Informative)
But they are not really useful for working with multiple monitors.
They are when you want one monitor to have 9 virtual desktops, and a second monitor to be running 9 completely different virtual desktops, and about the only way you're going to get anything to do that is going to be running a separate X server on each monitor.
Merge this with Synergy+'s recommendation below, and you can do all that with one keyboard and mouse.
Re:Google (Score:3, Informative)
Mr. Albanach Surly should also mention that both the programs he linked are basically dead, unmaintained relics. One of the wikipedia pages he linked even mentioned this. He did actually read what he linked, right?
The OP has asked a very interesting question though. If you could take something like xmove or Xpra and make an awesome [naquadah.org] window manager aware/compatible, it would be very interesting software indeed.
Re:This is a first (Score:3, Informative)
No - he doesn't understand what he wants because he has freely intermixed the terms desktop and workspace in the question. This has quite rightly confused the crap out of both sides of the never-ending windows-vs-linux death-match on slashdot.
It sounds like he wants independent workspace flipping on both screens, while dragging windows between. This is not hard to do, but by mentioning desktops he has confused everyone. The majority of the posts above are telling him that you cannot transfer windows between independent X screens (true, but irrelevant).
What he actually wants is a standard spanning X display (probably Xinerama) with a custom workspace flipper that groups the windows according to which logical display they are on. It's been a few years since I tried this and my memory is vauge; I would guess that the workspace flipper in Blackbox does this. If not, there are plenty of suggestions in other threads that sound plausible.
Your point was nearly correct: he wants independent workspaces, not desktops, or viewports, nor monitors. Personally I would tell him to get over the whole workspace thing and just use Expose on OS-X hooked up to keyboard shortcuts, but that is not the answer that he is looking for.