Which Linux For Non-Techie Windows Users? 766
obarthelemy writes "Having at last gotten Linux to run satisfactorily on my own PCs, I'd now like to start transitioning friends and family from XP to Linux instead of Windows 7. The catch is that these guys don't understand or care much about computers, so the transition has to be as seamless and painless as possible. Actually, they won't care for new things; even the upcoming upgrade to Windows 7 would be a pain and a bother, which is a great opportunity for Linux. I'm not too concerned about software (most of them only need browser, IM, VLC, mail and a Powerpoint viewer for all those fascinating attachments). What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface — system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows. Is it better to shoot for a very targeted distro? Which would you recommend? Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead? I've been looking around the web, and it's hard to gauge which distros are well-done and reasonably active."
Try OpenSUSE (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Try OpenSUSE (Score:5, Interesting)
There are lots of good documents here: http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_package_repositories [opensuse.org]
Packman is a must have ! (Score:3, Informative)
If you configure (And you should) the Packman repository
I second that. Packman is a must have repository.
Given weird IP laws, there is a lot of stuff which Novell isn't allowed to ship inside openSUSE (MP3 support, DVD support, etc...). Packman is *the* place to get all the stuff one needs (in addition to providing a nice location for some more up-to-date software and software which weren't available in the main repo).
Though one gotcha with openSUSE 11.2 : the latest opensource drivers for ATI and nVidia aren't included out-of-the-box (no nouveau at all, and the
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I considered Suse but noticed that Ubuntu not only looked easier, but had UbuntuForums.org which seems to be the place to search for info or ask for answers, and didn't see anything as popular for Suse or other distros. Also, Ubuntu seems to be by fair the most popular, which makes it easier to check if this or that game/gfx card/piece of hardware works. And it's less nerdy to get obvious `this shouldn't be hard` stuff done, like installing software.
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I agree. Novell turned evil when it sided with Microsoft against all linux distros other than SUSE. Novell must die, and SUSE supports need to understand they are playing with the Devil.
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Another often overlooked candidate (Score:2)
YaST, YaST, and YaST (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows users expect a familiar control panel to configure their box.
openSUSE puts out great, polished desktops. Their KDE 4 desktop is perhaps unmatched by any other distro, but YaST is what will really appeal to non-technical Windows users.
It should be noted that you may need to install a restricted formats package to get Flash, DVDs, MP3s, codecs, etc, and possibly a proprietary video driver. But there are 1-click installers that make this process very simple. After those two steps, you should be in pretty good shape.
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OpenSUSE ships a good KDE (Score:2)
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The point there is to have the entire software library available in a local repository rather than having to go out to the Internet all the time. And you can do that in Debian/Ubuntu/Mint as well, if you like.
It's an optional step, but if you are installing it for someone else it makes any software they want to add install a LOT faster, as long as the version on the distribution disc is still current (and there are a lot of packages that just don't get updated all that often, like games and educational sof
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Re:Try OpenSUSE (Score:4, Interesting)
When using Ubuntu, you can add software without any of that foolishness, using synaptic package manager or apt-get from the command line.
Don't forget about the 'Ubuntu Software Center' for non-techie users. Its simplified interface is a good alternative to Synaptic for quick search/install/remove.
I have some pretty good success stories regarding people that are ultra-non-tech using Ubuntu. A friend of mine had a system I helped him with, he uses it for all his music creation/production/promoting work. He moved out to New York, a few thousand miles from me, and about a year later his HD died. I had him order a new drive off newegg, download Ubuntu 9.10 on his wife's PC, and do the install himself. He was up and running with a fresh Ubuntu and installed all his software (VLC, Ardour, Hydrogen, QJackCtl, LADSPA plugins, etc) in under an hour. He wouldn't know how to use a command line if he tried :) Again, I think this is a good success story!
Here [slashdot.org]'s a previous post from me regarding software/hardware he uses and resulting artworks if anyone's further interested.
Re:Try OpenSUSE (Score:5, Informative)
I knew I would get that kind of reaction wording my question that way. My aim is not to bash Linux, but of the 6 PCs I currently have at home, it failed to install on 4, from a HALT error to a grey screen after loading x to a weird system screen with no login or launch options to a great big freeze at the desktop. I tried looking around for docs on these 4 issues, and either didn't find any relevant info, or it didn't work, or the info was incomplete or outdated. But then again, I'm dumb.
Since it did install on my 2 latest PCs, I'm taking it as a sign it will work well enough for simple desktop tasks, though the community, as you so effectively prove, is as welcoming to curious passer-bys and newbies as ever.
As for making it look like Windows, my users have a tendency to be even dumber than me. My 80-year old dad is thrown off when a video driver update changes his screen's resolution...
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1- The 4 problematic PCs are running XP or 7 perfectly right now, so I'm not buying the faulty/crappy hardware line. I checked driver support, they are even supposed to be linux-compatible even if old-ish, except for a very old Via-C7 one which should require manual config, except I can get to that point. My issue is not about Linux being hard to install, because when everything works it's very easy. My issues with Linux are more about limited driver support, failure to install on some systems, lacking/outd
Prepare for all (Score:5, Insightful)
Before you begin, ask the people you want to help if they are willing to try something else than MS software. They are probably quite familiar with Windows, Office, Outlook, and Media Player, and will have a hard time learning something new. That also means you will be asked a LOT of questions, mostly things that you can not even come up with because they are so logical to you. So: know what you get into before you begin!
Re:Prepare for all (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry for replying to myself, but if you have to ask this question on /. you'd better not start the whole 'converting business' because you will probably get more questions and remarks than you can handle. First try to find a Linux distribution that looks extremely user-friendly to you, get to know it thoroughly, and then ask people if they want to try it as an alternative to Windows.
Re:Prepare for all (Score:5, Insightful)
if you have to ask this question on /. you'd better not start
Every single Ask Slashdot story gets a response like this, and it's always a jackass thing to say. The whole reason Ask Slashdot exists is to allow technically competent people to share their expertise, and help others get up to speed. "RTFM n00b" responses like this are a major contributor to the negative geek stereotypes we all claim to hate, and in this specific case, a major barrier to Linux use. If you like seeing yourself as a member of a small, impenetrable elite possessed of special and arcane knowledge, go right ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to play along.
Re:Prepare for all (Score:5, Insightful)
if you have to ask this question on /. you'd better not start
Every single Ask Slashdot story gets a response like this, and it's always a jackass thing to say.
I think you misinterpreted his meaning, in this case. The GP was giving the advice that- if this ask /.er has to ask, then somebody better bring up the question- "Are you familiar w/ Linux yourself?"
Being a newb with Linux is a difficult enough step, and sometimes hard work. Supporting someone is even more difficult. This advice was buried in his maybe, somewhat, possibly, loaded question- Whatever answer comes up here, make sure you damn well get experience with the distro you choose before recommending others to use it. You are the tech support.
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but if you have to ask this question on /. you'd better not start
I think that could be said for most AskSlashdot questions. Seriously, there are questions that if you really need ask then you arent prepared for the answer.
Re:Prepare for all (Score:5, Informative)
>>>>you'd better not start the whole 'converting business' because you will probably get more questions and remarks than you can handle
+1 insightful.
I ran into this exact same problem. I gave my brother a new Windows/vista 7 desktop and an older Ubuntu Linux laptop (he gave me $350 in return), and you're right. I was not prepared for the number of questions I am now getting from him.
- WINDOWS 7 (vista 6.1) ----- Nary a problem. He did ask me to install RealPlayer but it only took 5 minutes and now he's gone two months without asking any questions.
- UBUNTU LINUX ----- Oh my god. Problem after problem after problem. "Where's the start menu?" "How come I can't find the calculator?" "Why won't my MS Word docs work on this laptop?" "I tried to play a game, but it refused to work." "I tried to watch CNN but the video refuses to run (it needed MS media player)." I'm starting to wish I had installed XP instead of Linux on this laptop, because it's idiot-friendly and my brother knows Windows.
Disclaimer-
This is not going to be a popular post.
I'm sorry. I can't change what I have observed.
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Completely with you. There was a time when I would have considered installing Linux on my older parents' computer, but I wouldn't think seriously about it nowadays. In fact, I've even given up on Linux on the desktop myself!
I'd been running Kubuntu on my laptop for some time... Frustrated by a dog-slow Flash player (which wouldn't fullscreen properly), and extremely flaky wifi, I switched to XP Pro. Should have done it ages ago. It runs Flash fullscreen at native (very high) LCD resolution, plays games,
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I find it interesting that people think that old people are going to have the most trouble with technology. Really if you look at how much technology changed over the years they've seen more change than your average youngster. I've found that many old geezers are more comfortable with technology changing than some middle aged geeks.
Once you accept that it is new technology and it is different than that you've seen before the learning curve isn't as steep. Children don't have a prejudice about technology
Re:Prepare for all (Score:4, Interesting)
Ubuntu (Score:5, Informative)
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I would suggest Kubuntu as an alternative. The KDE UI is much closer to Windows than Gnome is, and it retains the other user-friendly aspects of Ubuntu (including the parts that Ubuntu inherits from Debian, obviously). I also think it looks more polished, but obviously that's just my opinion.
I started using Kubuntu on my laptop and my media PC a year or two ago and think it's great. I'd be running it on my workstation at home if I didn't have the need for some Windows-only apps.
Re:Ubuntu (Score:4, Funny)
Did you go out and find that same hill to photograph?
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I would have to say that, while Ubuntu is a good choice, I wouldn't do straight Ubuntu - I'd pick Kubuntu. Out of the box, Gnome doesn't look anything like Windows - it looks closer to OS X than anything. KDE is going to be a lot more like Windows.
Saving Yourself A World Of Pain (Score:2, Informative)
Having recently paid for Windows 7 Professional, I can tell you that Linux offers you so many benefits that it is hard to see how Microsoft will be able to compete in the near future.
For example:
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I'm not sure what kind of experience lead you to believe that Windows 7 can only install with a single drive present, but it is very much not true.
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I could *not* get Windows 7 ultimate to install with a second hard drive and to this day it won't recognize one of my WD HDDs. I have no idea why, Ubuntu sees it just fine and XP never had a problem.
Did you try installing the latest storage driver? You need to slipstream it into the install disc, ideally even removing the entries for the originally-included version from the inf file that loads drivers during windows install. This is the most likely culprit. Which host adapter chip/version is in the system in question?
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Windows 7 allows you to load storage drivers off of a usb stick before installing.
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Wow, good job at being full of shit.
I installed Windows 7 on my HTPC, on Thursday and it has 5 hard drives. it didn't complain.
Raid 0,1 and 0+1 are normally set up in the bios, not the os. As long as 7 has the drivers, any version will install on a raid.
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I'm as big of a Linux advocate as anyone, but even I'm not delusional enough to think those advantages are going to sway the public.
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It's going to be even harder than that, since they are all blatant lies.
Either that or the GP couldn't figure out how to configure an extremely easy to install OS, which doesn't lend confidence to his technical expertise on the matter.
Re:Saving Yourself A World Of Pain (Score:4, Insightful)
you can install Linux even when there are multiple hard drives in your computer (you can only install Windows 7 if there is one and only one hard drive installed)
Er, what? Every version of Windows I've installed (back to 95 on floppy disks) supported multiple hard drives. The 9x series would format all of the installed drives prior to installing Windows itself, but that was fixed for the NT-based versions.
Linux will support RAID - 0, 1, 1+0, etc - Windows 7 only supports RAID 0, and RAID 1 for those who buy Professional or Ultimate, and cannot do RAID 1+0
Do you really want your OS taking on the overhead of RAID? Desktop motherboards with hardware RAID 0/1/0+1 are easy to find and cheap. How many desktop users actually have the four hard drives necessary (at a bare minimum) for 0+1 anyway?
Linux will not magically create a 100MB partition that you cannot erase and is essential to the operating system, unlike Windows 7 that will refuse to boot after removing the 100MB magic partition using Knoppix and cannot repair even with the original installation disks
100MB is about 1/100th of a percent of a common 1TB hard drive, right? Who cares? Why were you trying to remove it?
There are lots of things to like about Linux and hate about Windows (and vice-versa), but I don't think any of the things you mention are significant for the average desktop user of either.
Re:Saving Yourself A World Of Pain (Score:5, Informative)
Do you really want your OS taking on the overhead of RAID?
Yes, it's well-debugged, very low CPU (especially in a multi-core world), and it's portable across controllers.
Desktop motherboards with hardware RAID 0/1/0+1 are easy to find and cheap.
Because most of them just pass the job onto an OS driver.
How many desktop users actually have the four hard drives necessary (at a bare minimum) for 0+1 anyway?
RAID-1 is the major win for availability. It even improves your average seek time.
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Linux will not magically create a 100MB partition that you cannot erase and is essential to the operating system, unlike Windows 7 that will refuse to boot after removing the 100MB magic partition using Knoppix and cannot repair even with the original installation disks
Oh noes! My operating system created a 100mb system partition on my 1tb drive! I needed that space so I deleted it and now it doesnt work! Microsoft sucks!
My 65 year old parents like Ubuntu 9.10 (Score:5, Interesting)
It took me about 15 minutes to show them how to navigate around (compared to their old Windows XP machine that just gave up the ghost). The only thing I needed to set up for them was flash video so they can use youtube. The system keeps itself updated automatically and they'd already been using Openoffice under Windows.
They've got a brand new Asus notebook and Ubuntu found all the hardware bits by itself (including wifi and bluetooth). Haven't gotten a "support request" in months. I left a bootable Vista partition just in case they decide they want to get back on the Windows merry-go-round, but so far they haven't seen any need.
Best,
ER... Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I realize Slashdot is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but why bother transitioning them? If Windows works for them, and they're happy, you're just asking for a LOT of headaches with tech support, questions, and problems. Let them continue to use Windows in peace, unless there's some kind of real pressing issue that leads you to recommend them switching.
Re:ER... Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree. What's wrong with Windows 7? My dad switched from XP to 7 and was ready to go after a 15-minute walkthrough. He hasn't called to ask about anything. I tried switching him to Ubuntu but he was calling all the time to ask questions.
Re:ER... Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Time is money if you haven't figured it out.
To put it bluntly, the Linux Desktop missed the entire mass adoption of Personal Computers at home. Most of the desktop learning environment was done in the 90's and they have passed that skill on down to their children, so everything is just 'too big' and standardized the desktop. Plus I remember asking about a Linux desktop back in the days and the priorities were not there to develop it, more lines of whining about Windows were written than Desktop Linux code.
You can believe whatever encounters you have had and try to make them an example, but the point remains that Linux is a very chaotic environment and nobody wants to stand up to be liable if something goes wrong. That or they get really offended when you tell them you do not like what they developed and no people do not want to switch between 5 different varities of a certain App with names that do not even compare to the task they are doing.
Personally, I say just wait it out and let a big corporation like Google do something right with Linux to make it a truly great Desktop OS. Ubuntu is barely gimping along and nothing too exciting about makes it a 'must have'.
Plus Windows 7 is here and all the excuses of "Vista is bloat" have kind of gone out the door, MS seems to finally have figured out stability/security with Vista/Win7.
Linux Desktop missed the biggest opportunity to seize on MS's blunder with Vista, missed opportunity in that Win7 will last another 15+ years sitting on Businesses/home users computers.
Sorry I am more of a realist than an hopeful opportunist.
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To put it bluntly, the Linux Desktop missed the entire mass adoption of Personal Computers at home. Most of the desktop learning environment was done in the 90's and they have passed that skill on down to their children
It goes deeper than that.
Applications have been passed down from father to son, mother to daughter.
Microsoft Word 5.5 DOS [microsoft.com] [Patched For W2K] is a free download of a program first released in 1983. 27 years ago. Word for Windows took hold in 1990-1993.
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Windows 7 will run on just about anything. You don't have to worry about hardware unless the computer is 10 years old. It ran better than XP on my 6 year old laptop.
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Actually I have to place a nice "Windows 7 did its job amazingly" note here.
I ran windows 7 on a machine with the following specs:
384MB of RAM
1Ghz Pentium 3/4 (cant remember which)
4MB graphics card
(see http://sonof.bandit.name/files/tehlaptop/wtf.png [bandit.name] )
It got a 1.0 on the scale, and I had to hack together some win2k drivers for it to work, but by god it worked and it had better boot times than Linux does on the same machine(a heavily stripped down Xubuntu), down to playing a few mildly graphics intensive gam
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Well, just because they are used to windows doesn't mean it is working well for them or that they do not need constant help with it. XP is beginning to look dated and has always been a security problem. We all know Vista is crap, so if they're using that, switching to anything would be a reasonable upgrade. And if they are good enough with Windows that they don't need help with it, switching to Ubuntu (or Mint, even better) should not be difficult and will provide some peace of mind in terms of security.
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Windows XP is secure if configured correctly, and Vista hasn't been crap since its first Service Pack. Your entire post feels like a throw back from several years ago.
Also, I wouldn't switch users away from Windows. It is cheap enough, with great software support, to make it worth while to keep working around any problems you encounter.
Seconded (Score:2)
Point them to the best places to get good deals on Windows, Office, and decent anti-virus and backup. The $300-400 they would spend, or extra $200-300 on a new computer with all four items, will be far less than the time they lose transitioning to Linux.
If they don't have any money to spend, at least have them invest $50 in a hard drive so they can switch back if they need to.
Until Microsoft totally loses their mind and locks the entire user experience with DRM, there will not be enough momentum in the user
Re:ER... Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously,....I'm an Ubuntu zealot, but I have learned my lesson "nation building" with tech stuff. You are never really done, people call for help and questions years later.
If they don't like windows they just need to pony up a little more cash, get a Mac and get rid of the hassles.
Mandriva Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
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I agree. However 64-bit works quite well.
Linus (Score:3, Interesting)
The man himself uses ubuntu.
I also enjoyed Fedora Core.
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To the question "Which Linux for Non-Techie Windows Users?", let's go with what Linus would use. That he uses a Linux distro that could work at all is coincidence.
Choose a distro that has good KDE implementation (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's why:
The latest incarnation of KDE [kde.org] looks great. You must be warned though that the system your folks must be using has to be "powerful" enough. Here "powerful" is subjective.
I find KDE less frustrating than Gnome (Score:5, Insightful)
* It has more of the little tools which people expect and use.
* The tools are better integrated with one another. Gnome tools are standalone.
* It's faster (lower latency menus, windows etc).
* It works more reliably. The taskbar for example works, horizontally or vertically.
* It is more like windows XP like than Gnome.
* It's easier to customize/configure than Gnome.
Overall, KDE (3.5, haven't upgraded) just works well. The problem is the application namespace. The "K" thing. Seriously. Get rid of it. I don't need to know that I'm using Kontact, Knode, Karm Kaddressbook or or Kmail. Hide all that bollocks at the filesystem level.
Red Flag, Vixta or Ubuntu (Score:2)
Vixta [youtube.com] does a good job of looking like Vista.
Of course, these pale in comparison to the standard Ubuntu [ubuntu.com] as far as support goes. Screw the Windows look and feel, that'd be my recommendation. Depending on how much time you want to sink into customizing this for them, there are tu [techradar.com]
I prefer Fedora (Score:4, Interesting)
Speaking for myself, I prefer Fedora Linux. [fedoraproject.org] I find the look and feel is set up to be pretty close to Windows, enough so that sometimes people who look over my shoulder and see me using it assume I'm running Windows. If your family is moving from Windows, this might be a good choice.
Actually, my wife really likes Fedora, and she's a definite non-geek. It's easy enough for her to use, which (for her) is mostly email, web, text processor, and a few other minor apps.
I used to run Linux at work for several years, and ran Fedora. It's got the tools that replicate the functionality of Windows. (Unfortunately, I've been asked to move to Windows, at least for work. [blogspot.com] Ironically, I find Windows very confusing to use - Linux just seems so much easier to use.)
Mint (Score:4, Informative)
Linux Mint (Score:2, Informative)
I'm personally a big fan of Linux Mint. It builds off of Ubuntu, but it comes already setup with a number of proprietary items that other distros don't want to include, such as flash , mp3 and NVidia support. It has the familiar Windows-like setup you mentioned and it's easy to maintain with the mint-update tool, which lets the user know when there are updates to install. (I know other distros have similar utilities, but Mint's never seemed to break anything on an update.) It also has a number of other
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I'm going to second Mint, and if you want a Windows-like desktop stick to the default Gnome build. It's like Ubuntu with all the stuff you know you're really going to want preinstalled. I don't have anything against KDE, but Gnome is more Windows-like if you're worried about a smaller learning curve.
It builds on the excellent Debian / Ubuntu base, and adds a little extra testing and polish, and of course doesn't stick closely to the purist "no proprietary software" that can frustrate people who don't want
PCLinuxOS (Score:2)
Quick nod to PCLinuxOS here. Out of the box simple, straight-forward, Windows-ish enough that even those relatives who have made the transition from Win2k/XP had minimal issues/adjustment time to get comfortable - seamless and painless, as the OP requires. Has a great built-in assortment of apps [covers all the bases outlined above] and just plain works and very well at that, even on somewhat older hardware. Gets my vote.
the answer to your question, and then some (Score:3, Informative)
What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.
All you have to do to get this with Ubuntu is to move the task list from the bottom panel to the top, delete the bottom panel, and move the top panel to the bottom. With a little research you could probably do this from the console (or by extension, a script) with the gconftool-2 command. The menu items are already sufficiently similar to Windows.
Making it act like OSX is slightly harder, but not really difficult. Add the AWN testing team PPA (some of the mac features like pinning an app to the dock as a launcher require the new AWN) and install avant-window-navigator-trunk and all the plugins ending in -trunk, remove the gnome-panel from the list of required applications (again, via gconf) and configure Compiz to include the functionality of Expose and Spaces, which is quite simple.
For both Windows and OSX-looks, there are numerous available GTK+2 themes which will provide the appearance of your choice. OSX has three or four different widget sets; you get to pick one that looks like any of them (or variations thereof) and all the GTK+2 apps will look the same, something Apple hasn't been able to manage. Windows-look is much the same; you can find Windows 95/NT4, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, or various other appearances. Making the gnome-panel look like the Windows taskbar is a simple matter of using the right background image, which you ought to be able to download easily enough.
I use an OSX-look; The visual effects of Compiz are slower than the effects on OSX ever since Xgl was killed off. But the rest of the OS is generally more responsive, so the final effect is fairly positive. With that said, you might consider just getting them used to Ubuntu's look. The only big drawback to it is that having two taskbars wastes screen real estate. That's why I'm using AWN with auto-hide; it's very smart in the current release. Also, this is the first version of AWN which doesn't simply disappear when compiz dies, which makes it a valid tool for the average user, who probably doesn't want to have to hit Alt+F2 and run Compiz. Instead, you can give them a menu option. This is still better than what happens on Windows or the Mac when an element of the GUI system dies.
Ubuntu! (Score:2)
I'ts really very pointy-clicky.
Linux Mint? (Score:2)
Maybe others can lend their experience with it since I can't.
Look and feel (Score:2)
What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface — system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left ...
Any distro running GNOME, KDE or XFCE (that is, almost any distro by default) can be easily configured in this manner.
... menu items similar to those of Windows.
For the love of God, no. This is one of the areas where Linux by and large kills Windows in terms of usability. It won't take long for them to appreciate the (mostly) logical grouping of programs in, for instance, Ubuntu's applications menu. The Windows Start menu is a nightmare by comparison.
Are there themes/skins for mainstream distributions instead?
Sure, but I wouldn't recommend them. Whilst I'm all for easing the transition, there's nothing wro
My biggest problem was (Score:5, Insightful)
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His fault, not the computer's fault.
Re:My biggest problem was (Score:4, Insightful)
His fault, not the computer's fault.
His fault, because he had the audacity to click on a link in an e-mail, or visit a malformed web page? Or because the flash plugin he was using was slightly out of date and didn't bother letting him know it was time to update? Or because he didn't realize that www.paypal.com != www.paypa1.com? There are thousands of ways a computer can get infected with malware. Many are poor judgement on the user's part, but hell, many are no fault of the user at all - at least, not in a sane world. My definition of a sane world does not include getting your computer compromised simply by viewing a web page.
Linux has the advantage of an inherently superior security model (permissions-based security was ALWAYS the standard), where Windows has the problem of supporting legacy apps from a model that allowed total permissions from ANY process. And of course, there's the fact that Linux (on the desktop) is a much smaller target.
Blaming users is a copout. Lay the blame squarely where it deserves to go: programmers / managers who were thinking far too much about cool whiz-bang features and not enough about hardening their software from malicious attacks.
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Give your friend Songbird. The default theme and functionality is very similar to iTunes, and it supports iPod syncing out of the box. It integrates functionality for a couple different music stores (7digital, Amazon MP3, etc) about as smoothly as iTunes does with the iTunes store, plus the added bonus of DRM-free music.
You mean "the added bonus of lower sound quality", since the iTunes store is also DRM-free for music, but is AAC instead of MP3.
Any distro (Score:2)
Any distro will do, provided you are familiar with it and it works with the hardware. My now 60-years-old parents were using gentoo once, completely oblivious of the complexity of that system. You may even tell them that this is a new version of Windows (my favorite one, I show and explain newbies all the killer features of a linux distro (packet management, middle-click-paste etc. and tell them in a week or so, that this was linux all the time).
You have a couple of options. (Score:2, Interesting)
Since your needs are pretty simple, there are a few options that you can take:
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Darn; I didn't mean to post that as AC. That was me.
Ubuntu (Score:2)
Definately Ubuntu. I use Debian myself, but I have recommended Ubuntu to several n00bs after bad experiences with other distros. Generally Ubuntu Just Works and they don't have to bother you for help; n00bs can install it themselves, keep it up-to-date themselves, they can install the software they want and plug in all their peripherals without fiddling with drivers and settings. Other distro's generally just don't have the critical n00b-userbase mass it takes to deliver user-friendly quality all-over on a
Sacrilegious suggestion follows (Score:2)
I use Linux ALL the time as my main OS and would never consider using Windows again, nor the Mac, having been burned far too often by both of them.
That being said, I use the free MS PowerPoint viewer via Wine to be able to properly view PowerPoint attachments.
OpenOffice has never been able to play those properly, but the free viewer plus Wine combo work absolutely perfectly.
In essence, I suppose what I'm saying is that for closed formats like PP, MS still does it best.
Linux Mint (Score:2)
Mint/Ubuntu, CentOS (Score:2)
My 8yr old daughter uses Ubuntu without issue. I use mainly CentOS, but am impressed by Linux Mint. All have Windows-ish interfaces with start bar and icons. She bounces between XP on her laptop and Ubuntu on her desktop, and doesn't have any issues; she even tells me what dfferences there are between them.
Don't tell them it's Linux... (Score:2)
...or they will scream "Oh noes! OMG!! The COMMAND LINE will eat my brain!!!" and freeze up. Just install Ubuntu and let them think you've upgraded them to Windows 7. Then they'll gripe a bit about the changes and settle down to use it.
Why? (Score:2)
Linux Mint (Score:2)
PcLinuxOS (Score:2)
Have them use what you use. (Score:2)
Ubuntu (Score:2)
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Linux [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Disti [feeddistiller.com]
Mint (Score:2)
What I'm concerned about is OS look-and-feel and interface -- system bar on the bottom with clock, trash, info on the right, menu on the left, menu items similar to those of Windows.
In this case, a good choice would be Linux Mint. [linuxmint.com] As a whole, it's a rather well-designed system (their motto: "from freedom came elegance."). And it's handy that it comes with the drivers and plugins that Ubuntu leaves to a separate download for (I assume) license or patent reasons.
A pain and a bother? (Score:4, Informative)
Windows 7 preserves almost all the metaphors and usage traits people are used to from XP, and introduces new convenience features. I think a transition to Windows 7 from XP would be a much smoother process than an introduction to a new platform.
Is there a good reason to switch the family to Linux, other than for ideological reasons?
Ubuntu, change the colors, panel on the bottom (Score:3, Interesting)
Brown is ugly, so change the wallpaper. Honestly. Why people act like this is a showstopper beats me.
Last and far from least, put the panel where they're used to it, with the trash over there and the Start over here. And you're all set.
I set up laptops recently for my brother-in-law and his niece, both of them Windows users of the type who don't know a browser from a desktop. I figured I'd have no end of support, but that would still be better than the even bigger infinity of sorting their machines out after their daily virus infections.
In over six months, they've had no problems. None. There was one question: how to make the panel transparent because they were using different wallpaper.
They're not the type to use forums for questions, but if they were, the ubuntu forums are the most informative and friendliest to noobs of the lot.
Re: (Score:2)
just did one today, first time in a long time, and it was very straight forward. Would install again.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Ubuntu may have the best community. And I think the community may be a big deal to a new user.
Also, I think Mint may be based on Ubuntu. As I understand it, Mint looks a bit more like Windows, and Mint offers more "out of the box."
I use debian lenny and xfce4 myself.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ubuntu (Score:5, Informative)
I agree fully. Having slight differences is a good reminder that the user is now unique among their peers, and uses something superior to the average. Like driving a Ferrari, it's got everything, but just a little different than their neighbor's Buick.
However, normalcy is nice. Having a steering wheel is good. This is why I usually just rearrange things a bit. Sure, it takes a bit of effort, but you can rearrange the applets on the GNOME panel and get a decent facsimile of Windows, but with different images. It's enough to match up with basic instructions from less-than-savvy friends, and it's certainly close enough to learn quickly.
Once I've converted folks, I've often put a sheet of paper next to the computer, listing equivalent options between Ubuntu and Windows. If you want to do something and can't figure out how immediately, look at the list. Eventually, that list will disappear from use.
Finally, one of the most important things I've done to convert someone has nothing to do with the OS itself. I always leave my cell phone number and a card listing the hours where I'm not otherwise occupied. For the next week, I'll get several calls, but the user gets someone friendly to help them. It also often serves as a nice introduction to the community in general. If I'm unable to really help right then, I'll direct the user to the Ubuntu forums. Calls drop off rapidly after that.
This turned into an essay. Sorry about that.
Communities (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say: so what. Do tech communities matter to non-techies? Do former Windows users need or want a community? Even though they didn't need one when using Windows? The word from the Linux communities is that it is easy enough for anyone and easier than Windows. It just works, right?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trolling for Windows and it's great that Ubuntu has a community too. There is value for many in having a friendly community to scrape tech tips from. I just wonder if it really matters to a non-techie who is just looking to play videos, send e-mail, and visit Facebook.
Re:Ubuntu (Score:5, Informative)
I've used Puppy, Ubuntu, and Mint recently, with a laundry list of other distros over the years.
Mint is your hands-down best out-of-the-box choice. The reason is simple -- it comes with a Flash player already installed. That means that facebook, youtube, twitter, and every other flavour-of-the-week website is going to just work as soon as installation is completed. If you're using other distros, you're going to have to enable the universal, guess about which open-source player and version will work, and cross your fingers. (Remember, if it fails ONCE, Linux is too complimicated.) It is based on Ubuntu, so you get a lot of support PLUS all the proprietary functionality that the average user will want.
Puppy is faster, and by a long shot. Even though it's not as polished, it is usable, so much so that my daughter can use it. (She is six.) I've got another copy running on my ancient P2 366 laptop, and it's actually usable.
Re:Ubuntu (Score:4, Funny)
Malware isn't just a part of Windows. If the user is stupid enough to run malicious code with elevated privileges then their computer is going to turn into mush like you describe, regardless of the operating system. Hiding root inside a cryptic shell doesn't really count.
Also, bluescreens haven't been a real complaint against Windows since XP pre-SP1. Any lingering problems are due to drivers, and Linux has much nastier drivers than Windows. Crashes are rare and Windows handles dying programs better than Linux. Badly written X applications occasionally cause my X to freeze up but I've never heard of such a thing on Windows.
Kind of Ubuntu (Score:3, Informative)
Two things:
Mint is based on Ubuntu, but comes with all the post-install crap already done for you. It has the bottom panel with menu button (not bar). It's nice and green, not brown.
My recommendation for older machines is LXDE [lxde.org] on Ubuntu or Mint. It can run nicely in 128-256MB RAM.
Re: (Score:2)
Are any major distros still using KDE 3.5? I know it works, but it is pretty old now, and the newest 4.x versions looks and works great.
Which one do you go for? Ubuntu. Why? It's the biggest, easiest to find support for, and it works really well.
Mint. It is based on Ubuntu but is designed to provide a better, more complete out-of-the-box experience. I have to say, it delivers. Supporting it is pretty much like supporting Ubuntu
Re: (Score:2)
[_] some of us aren't cheap - we can buy a second hard disk and devote it to an entire OS;
[_] we don't want to look at that "other OS" more than once every 6 months,
[X] that "other OS" has legal restrictions on virtualization.
[_] What is this "other OS" you speak of? I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
[_] In Soviet Russia, other OS boots YOU!
[X] I don't run "that other OS", you insensitive clod!
Re:Linux terrorist (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The issue with minor distros is drivers, especially video drivers. I like PuppyLinux a lot, too.