What Advice For a Single Parent As Server Admin? 618
Dragon_Eater, with "lots of experience setting up PCs and a passable knowledge of Linux but severely lacking in the server/client department,"
writes with a situation that probably faces a lot of parents:
I want to set up three kids, 12, 14, and 15, with newer computers so they will stop fighting for time on the one ten-year-old Dell they share now. I can get the individual computers and a server put together without any problems, but the computer-handicapped single parent needs to be able to do the following via an simple application/web page: View client computer status, On/off, sleeping etc.; Deny Internet access, not LAN, just the web; Schedule time usage of computer, ex. 7 am to 10 pm on school nights etc.; Force log-out and/or shutdown of clients, for grounding purposes; and Apply some kind of firewall filter for blocking undesired web content. And as the administrator for this network I would like the following options: Remote virus scanning of client machines, or scheduled task; Some kind of hardware monitor, high temp / fan speed low etc.; and Email alerts for various log files / alarms.
Given the lists above I am thinking about a Linux-based router/server machine and running Windows on the clients for game compatibility. I also know that a server and network boot client is possible but not sure where to start on that one."
Sorry (Score:1, Insightful)
If you're severely lacking in the client/server department you don't have a passable knowledge of Linux, which is primarily a server operating system. Perhaps you may have a "passing acquaintance with Linux as used on the Desktop".
I got the answer, it's simple... (Score:2, Insightful)
this is really easily done! 1) talk to your kids, be a real parent!!! i don't think you'll ever have a case where little billy gets in trouble at 1pm and you need to disconnect his computer rights from work. 2) if they need to be punished unplug the computer and take it away. 3) have admin rights to their computers so you can keep tabs on what they're doing and can't hide anything from you.
problem solved.
next.
physical access (Score:5, Insightful)
the simplest and most effective block is to go over and shut the computer off. Take away the computer if you have to (or just the cords if that's too much trouble).
Re:Do this, ground your kids, make them Engineers (Score:3, Insightful)
That, or they'll just start using the neighbours' WiFi
Re:The human factor (Score:3, Insightful)
The person does not know how to do security...
Here is the problem. Kid A.... "Parent parent parent I need to get a project done and you shut down my computer at 10PM. And if I don't get this project done I will get an F!"
At this point the parent's security is blown to bits because they need to make an exception. And how often will this kid say, "parent parent I have a "project""
The easiest way to answer this is as follows:
1) Own the route to the Internet. That means you give or deny access to the Internet. Kids loose interest REAL quick if they can play with the Internet.
2) Let the kids have access to the computer anytime they want. WITH the exception that you can remotely log in at any time. Install VNC server and periodically log onto the machine and see what your kids are doing. Yes it is big brother, but it also keeps people honest when they know you can log in at any time.
3) NEVER give out the password. And that means you as the parent need remote access to the home network. Because imagine being out for the day, kid comes home and needs access to the Internet. They phone you, and unless you give them access you are going to have one angry kid. Thus make sure that you can remotely access your network, make the changes and move on...
Otherwise the rest is silly and life should be fine...
Really? (Score:1, Insightful)
You could save yourself a lot of time and do the job better by building character rather than trying to restrict them with technology. Ultimately teaching them how to use the internet responsibly and how to live responsibly is going to be the better way to go than trying to control what they can do and when. Both you and your children will be happier for it.
you can also use Linux like Mandriva with Dos Box (Score:1, Insightful)
Mandriva has very easy to use admin functions that can allow you to shut off a fair amount of what you are trying to do. With Dos Box installed it will play older games well and can have WINE added for newer ones. I have used SUSE, Fedora and ubuntu and believe that mandriva has the best root/admin control functions for setting up and keeping a computer running while disallowing changes by a user. Just be sure to create a STRONG password since your kids will be trying every possible way to defeat your settings. Oh, don't let a LIVE disk lay around for them to find. They will defeat all of your efforts with that after a while of practicing....
Maybe a real solution is to place the computer in the living room where you can see them while they use it and shut it off all other times.
STOP! (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously! Just stop!
1. You either come up with a "normal" computer usage policy, you know, talking to your kids about stuff like porn, sex, appropriate computer policy in your house (better not be too strict on this one :P), purpose of getting them the computers, internet privacy, etc, or,
2. don't and the kids will get to all the "inappropriate" places anyway and may get you into more trouble than you ever imagined.
Frankly, you can't "filter" porn. If someone wants to get it, they will. Maybe this is one of the good sides of internet porn - parents forced to deal with sex-ed of their kids. Although most go the "easy way" and pretend it doesn't exist - "but I installed a filter!!"
Second, I would be much more nervous about insisting that your kids DO NOT use any of the file sharing software without prior permission, on case-by-case basis. Explain about the MAFIA, I mean, MPAA and the like on their lawsuit campaigns.
Regardless, your solutions are *parenting* human solutions, not technical ones.
The age group is a problem here.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm doing something similar but in our family, we've got a 7 and an 8 year old and a 3 year old, so it's a different "ball game".
In our situation, I don't bother trying to put Linux on any of their machines. I've found that for the younger kids, the vast majority of their time spent playing anything Internet/web-based involves Shockwave Flash based sites (or sites using other proprietary 3D player plug-ins). Unfortunately, nothing runs this stuff quite as well as either a Windows XP (or later) OS, or a newer Mac running a recent version of OS X.
I found a free add-on for Firefox called Kidzui that was pretty nice. It basically turns the browser into a "kids' browser" that has a "home page" with good suggested sites for them to visit, and lets them click and explore around in a big collection of known "kid safe" web sites. Basically, it doesn't allow going anyplace except sites they pre-approved, but they make the whole experience feel like the kid is just getting around the net without restrictions. Additionally, it can email the parent weekly stats on the sites they spent the most time using, etc.
If you're using a Mac, OS X has pretty nice parental controls built into the OS for things like not allowing use of the machine after certain hours. I didn't find Windows had nearly as nice of capabilities for that, out of the box (though Windows 7 was closer than any previous version of Windows to offering it).
Honestly, I'm not that "sold" on putting forth the effort of setting up a lot of centralized administration and maintenance for the machines on a small home network (like for 3 kids). You may as well put free anti-virus/spyware software on each computer and let them auto update themselves independently. The products that support centralized management of the AV software tend to be expensive and/or buggy. (You get weirdness like one box that gets out of sync with the server console, so you have to mess with things to get them to both be on the "same page" about the workstation's status again.)
If anything, I think it'd be worthwhile to image the drives of all the machines, once they're freshly set up with the OS and applications and configuration defaults you like. Then, if one gets screwed up, you can just wipe its drive and re-image at will from your network server. Typically, on a kids' PC, they don't have that much important data to worry about losing anyway. If they're doing most things on the net, the sites they use are saving their high scores, user profiles, and such.
Replacing good parenting with tech solutions ... (Score:2, Insightful)
... forget the techie crap, and try spending more time communicating with your children.
I'd rather have a kid who I know I can trust to turn off his PC for the night, than have to rely on tech control and surveillance.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tell her not to do so (Score:1, Insightful)
Boy are you naive. Children learn by curiosity and expanding their boundaries. It's a parent's job to put limits on such until the child PROVES they have consistently been trustworthy and you expand the boundaries a little at a time. Let me pose this question to you. Your boss tells you not to surf slashdot during work hours. Do you honor that, or do you figure you know better than your boss and are mature enough to do what you want and sneak peeks now and then anyways? If you cannot be 100 percent reliable to not surf slashdot during works hours, how can you expect children to honor a parents wishes based on the fact that they are "old enough".
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a little over the top but parents are supposed to keep an eye on what their own kids do.
At least that's the reply whenever parents try to foist that particular burden on society rather than do it themselves.
You need at most N-1 computers (Score:5, Insightful)
Where N is the number of computer users and you want them in a shared space, not in each child's room. Providing each child a personal computer, especially in his room, is a guarantee that any kind of interaction between you and your kids and between themselves will end. Ensuring computer "scarcity" will force you and, more importantly, your kids to interact with each other. It may even force you and your kids, gasp, to share a computer.
This also has a couple side benefits:
1. There are no "secrets" on the computers so you have no need for the tight monitoring and/or policing you seem to think you want.
2. Virus infections become a shared painful experience with obvious lessons being learned on how to avoid it the next time.
HW monitoring is kind of pointless as it won't tell you anything.
This only leaves you with a couple problems to deal with:
1. backup - there are plenty of backup solutions out there. Generally, you'll want some kind of external drive setup with automated user data backups.
2. virus recovery - If you like anti-virus software, use it. However, you should probably also keep a fresh install method handy so you can simply re-install without having to deal with the mess (this is where a good backup becomes very important). Taken a step further and to save lots of time you could have all your machines running VM hosted Windows images. Then when one of the images gets infected or otherwise "goes bad" you simply revert to the latest and greatest clean VM image (user data backup is still very important).
Re:Do this, ground your kids, make them Engineers (Score:3, Insightful)
Prepaid. End of problem.
Re:Do this, ground your kids, make them Engineers (Score:2, Insightful)
And what happens when they clone the MAC address of an unblocked computer (such as the parent's computer)? Bypassing filters that only block some machines on a network doesn't exactly require a genius.
Control is an illusion. (Score:2, Insightful)
There are products you can buy that are normally used in businesses, that allow you to do key stroke logging, remote snooping the screen, etc. If you're as paranoid as the business that use these tactics on their workers then I'm you can find them with the Google. I don't expect they will be cheap, and they will require a lot of setup, you'd also have to do this away from home for obvious reasons. But if you mistrust your kids that much already I'm sure you're prepared for that.
This sort of thing sounds like it's right up your alley: http://www.softactivity.com/ [softactivity.com]
Of course as pointed out above they can be circumvented with the Google too, often by the simple expedient of going to a library, or a friends house. You could of course spy on them there to, by bugging their phone, though of course if you follow down this route you'll work out that locking in their room, and home schooling them under armed guard is the only rational choice. What you're going to do in a few years once they leave home and become adults, (so called) is a different matter.
You could of course just lock them in the basement.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The human factor (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember when I was a teenager.
My dad added a power on password on the basis that he utterly detested games.
The problem was he didn't even give it to my mother.
Of course one day I actually needed to print something in a fucking hurry and he couldn't be contacted so I solved the problem with a screwdriver and the motherboard manual.
Which brings up the problem of physical access.
All the software in the world is pointless if the teenager can simply swap some network cables.
virtualization will kill any game need video card (Score:3, Insightful)
virtualization will kill any game need a video card better then a basic 2d one.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
But if you don't put any barriers in how shall they ever learn about proxies, address spoofing, packet sniffers and all the other wonderful things involved in defeating technical parental controls?
Don't forbid, educate! (Score:1, Insightful)
First of all may I remind you (parent) that your kid's education is your frickin' job?! Technology is still NOT able to replace good parenting and probably/hopefully that won't be the case anytime soon. Your teenagers will find a way to break your rules sooner or later anyway so why even waste time TRYING to create such a virtual soap-bubble-castle for them? They'll only feel more controlled and repressed and that will eventually lead to more rebellious behaviour from their part - none of you would like it. They're teenagers so just DON'T FORBID them a thing in "their own" home. They're not your slaves, they're still your kids! You (and your kids) won't succeed by using technology as a replacement for a real parent!
TALK and CONNECT to your kids, teach them meaningful ways of using modern technology (or even better let them teach themselves, they probably even know already much more about technology than you do). At this age they won't listen to you anyways but maybe with a little teasing ("You'll get a new computer, if and only if ...") will make them behave for some time. Apart from all of that: Three kids fighting over one 10-year-old computer, in the year 2010, sorry, but that's just plain ridiculous! If you can't afford a life worth living for your kids maybe you just shouldn't have produced them yet.
No they don't. (Score:4, Insightful)
What they NEED to do is supervise what their kids are doing - not leave it up to the server - the kids will get around that SO quick.
All you're doing is giving a false sense of security.
Put the computers where the single parent can SEE the kids using them. And they can see each other. If you start hearing lots of giggling, check to see if they're looking at porn. Also, the kids will snitch on each other if they can see what they're doing.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:5, Insightful)
These aren't little children (Score:4, Insightful)
The need for a Linux Home Domain Controller (Score:4, Insightful)
This is one area where Linux amazingly has been lacking. Home Domain Controllers. You can create a home domain controller with features Windows has never dreamed. Its just really really, really too hard. There needs to be a Home Domain controller Application added to most Linux Distributions.
Mandriva comes close to this with the ability to setup fully functional Samba Domains stand-alone only. But if you try and configure OpenLDAP, Kerberos, Squid, FreeRadius or anything else, it becomes a time vampire to get it all working right. And its not that the software is buggy. Its that often, the software is configured badly, and not at all.
https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=58653 [mandriva.com] Take a look at this bug I filed.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was a teenager, I got in all kinds of mischief. It turns out that my parents knew about pretty much all of it, but I did not know about this at the time. They didn't interfere unless they thought that I was getting into something over my head... like when I became very depressed, for a long period of time, and I bought myself a bottle of sleeping pills. That was an important intervention.
Children have no right to privacy. Teenagers chafe at the idea, of course, but the fact is that they are children, and good parenting means making decisions that are in their best interests, not their greatest desires. When they're able to weigh their actions with the consequences of those actions (i.e., becoming an adult), then they get privacy.
When your daughter starts googling birth control, it's time to have a chat.
Re:Holy shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
All that's being asked is to put limits on when they can use the computer and unspecified filtering for objectionable content. These are completely normal requests, no different than the parental controls built into televisions and other devices. You're jumping to conclusions as to the level of filtering that the parent is going to use. Since we all know that filtering isn't foolproof, it's more reasonable to assume that the filter will only be getting the most obvious and egregiously objectionable content. There's still plenty of room for mistakes and teaching moments.
You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between the autonomy of adulthood and the semi-autonomy of adolescence.
The last thing a single parent asking for help needs is to be put in the same camp as the Stasi. I don't think forced shutdowns at bedtime or when they're grounded rises to the level of one of the most effective secret police ever devised.
Single parents have a job (Score:3, Insightful)
the computers he's trying to administer are like 10 feet away from him.
Not necessarily. Single parents tend to have a job.
Re:Replacing good parenting with tech solutions .. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, he could fix this by doing what he does now, having one computer for all three in a public place. But he's trying to improve their access, not limit it. And he just wants to make sure that improvement isn't abused.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
I could not have said it better. The proposed setup is plainly horrendous. I guess the first thing the 15 year-old will try to do is overcome the network limitations (and rightly so).
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
I hate to sound like an ass, but if you're so scared of what your kids are going to do when you leave for 5 minutes, you're not doing your job as a parent. If they're 2, sure, hover over them - my brother got into our fireplace and covered with ash, as well as took every big sharp steak knife out of a childproofed door in about 30 seconds of 'not there'.
But if your kids are old enough to use the internet, and you're seriously worried they'll burn the house down while you're in the can - you and your kids have a problem that a firewall won't fix.
My parents raised me with the assumption that I wouldn't pull any stupid shit, made sure I knew what was stupid, and made me dislike coming off as stupid. That's really all it took.
Re:Holy shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Extra-agreed.
the computer-handicapped single parent needs to be able to do the following
OK...
via an simple application/webpage:
Why must it be a webpage?
View client computer status, On/off, sleeping etc.;
Walk into room (quietly, if necessary). See if there's a big, square light. If it's daytime this is a window, if it's night it's a computer screen.
I moved my PC when I was about 15 so it couldn't be seen from my bedroom door. My dad moved it back, so he could see it before I knew he was there.
Deny internet access, not LAN, just the web;
Unplug it (I doubt LAN access is necessary). Or say, "if I see you using the web tonight you're banned from the computer for the rest of the week".
I'm not going to bother going further.
Exit plan (Score:5, Insightful)
Number one priority is figure out the exit plan.
In "about three years" by yer own figures, the oldest is going to be utterly and completely totally free, at college or whatever. In less than a year, total freedom for limited time periods behind the wheel, visiting stores and other peoples houses, etc.
Building a better cage is not going to help the kids relate, when they're finally released/paroled into society.
Which kids have the biggest problems at 14? The kids of "anything goes" parents. Which kids have the biggest problems at 19? The kids of overprotective parents. On average, 14 year olds can get into less trouble than 19 year olds. So, teach them responsibilities of freedom at 14 with your guidance, not 19 and alone.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, the requirements are extra-detailed and a little anal, which make them seem over-the-top, but they basically boil down to:
(1) Restrict internet usage to normal times so the kids don't stay up until three am on a school night. Reasonable.
(2) Revoke access as a punishment. Kids have been getting grounded for how long?
(3) Block access to some sites. Entirely reasonable if you're talking really bad sites or malware infected stuff. It doesn't necessarily equate to some active proxy reading their facebook posts. Besides, I'm sure the kids don't want to see goatse any more than you.
I'm sure plenty of good parents keep guns in a safe and liquor in a locked liquor cabinet. Obviously a gun or booze is more dangerous than the internet, I'm not trying to equate them, but there are advantages to a layered system of trust. Technology and good parenting aren't mutually exclusive.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
Logging everything they do isn't "keeping an eye on them". It is totalitarian, even if you don't like the word.
Your children are not you. The fact that you had trouble when you were a child doesn't mean that your children will. The fact that you needed that extra surveillance doesn't mean that they will. And the fact that privacy nearly got you killed doesn't mean that it will get them killed.
I believe that children, in general, do have the right to privacy. It is just that this right is "overridable" by circumstances, like a very depressed child. This is similar to declaring a state of emergency when there's a natural catastrophe; the army just takes control of the country until the emergency finishes.
Then there's the scalability: when do they get the right to privacy, according to you? When they are 18? When they leave the house?
And chat should happen *much before* you learn that your daughter starts googling birth control. I hope you just phrased it the wrong way.
Re:Sorry (Score:3, Insightful)
It's like a boss spending megabucks on technical solution, when he should instead make control of employees mainly a management thing that's aided by cheaper and less elaborate technical solutions.
If Boss just puts up expensive technical controls, and is not known for enforcing policy, he's not going to get compliance.
If the boss is known for enforcing a policy, he's going to get compliance with that policy, even if the boss is not in all the time, and the technical stuff isn't that elaborate.
Sure have some blocking and monitoring, but strict restrictions are counterproductive, maybe the kid/employee really does need to use the computer to do homework/work.
e.g. "Force log-out and/or shutdown of clients for grounding purposes". "Schedule time usage of computer, ex. 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. on school nights etc.;"
If they can't use the computer at home, they could go out if you're not around. If you're around to stop them from going out, you're around to stop them from using the computers[1] or using them in ways you don't want to use them.
Once they make it a habit of going elsewhere to use the computer, your technical stuff becomes useless.
You just need to know what's going on, and to block certain sites as part of showing you _really_ care what they are up to (you have to prove it in other ways too).
[1] You're the unelected Benevolent (hopefully
My advice: Forget it! (Score:4, Insightful)
The parent is described as "computer-handicapped", so let's put it in terms he or she will understand: Consider, instead those old-fashed toys of yesteryear. Or consider the TV which many kids of my generation had in their rooms.
Could you imagine a parent asking that his children's toys will automatically stop working on 10pm? Or that his TV cannot be turned on when the child is grounded, or perhaps show only certain channels at certain times? Or the toys checking themselves and letting the parent know when one of them gets broken?
This is all ridiculous, of course. With toys and TV you simply couldn't even imagine doing this. With a computer you can *imagine* doing it, but it doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. A child will always find ways to break such technological rules, especially if the parent is so-called "computer-handicapped".
Re:Replacing good parenting with tech solutions .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Holy shit (Score:3, Insightful)
I like to follow the KISS principle (keep it simple), because I don't like major projects or headaches. The MAIN issue here is that you've got 3 kids and 1 computer, so my solution would be to get 1 computer per kid. Ebay sells used XP laptops for about $100 plus shipping. Buy 3.
I'd put all 3 computers in a "computer room" that opens at 6am and closes at 10pm, plus allows me to monitor what my kids are doing. Not that I mind them looking at nudie pics or whatever, but I'd still want to be AWARE of what's going on inside my own house (i.e. not in their bedroom stripping for their boyfriend via webcam, and I don't know about it). When they go off to college then they'll have a private room to privately surf the net.
Since I only have one DSL modem, I'd have to get a new hub which allows 3 connections: 1 per computer. Or maybe a wireless router, although I still prefer wired connections, for security reasons.
So to summarize: I'd buy 1 laptop per kid, at a total cost of about $300, and limited to usage in a public computer room so they'll stop fighting over the single Dell desktop.
IMHO.
Please don't mod me down just cause you disagree.
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
Electronic bullying can result in teen suicide. Young kids seeing terrorists cut the heads people can be disturbing. I can think of lots of things on the internet that can be as dangerous as a table saw.
Re:physical access (Score:2, Insightful)
My dad used to love taking the power cord from the computer during summer vacation to try and keep me off of it. What he didn't know was the TV used the same kind of cord, so it was pretty easy to swap them out while he was at work.
When he figured out what I was doing, he took that power cord away as well. I guess he really expected me to play outside all day.
Poor guy never found the spare power cord that I kept in my room.
Re:Do this, ground your kids, make them Engineers (Score:1, Insightful)
This method encourages them to find ways around it and learn, which isn't a bad thing ;)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Holy shit (Score:1, Insightful)
hahahaha. you ask people not to mod you down when you made a shit comment? your solution here has absolutely nothing to do with the problems of the situation.
There's still issues of access control, timing, etc.
99% of which will all still be circumvented anyways. It's better to try to teach the kids how to be smart about what they're doing rather than try to restrict usage hours.
Re:Holy shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ask the intelligence community (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, I would if I didn't recognize a bad link for what it is. But sometimes the trolls are just a little more clever than you expected that day, or you hadn't had your caffeine fix yet.
Re:Replacing good parenting with tech solutions .. (Score:4, Insightful)
So you are ok with your kids being on AIM all day looking for older guys who make them feel special?
If a teen is looking for older guys to make them feel special, she is already emotionally vulnerable and needs some help. Cutting off the computer/internet without providing some support will just make her look for someone in real life.
Or surfing porn all day?
Pretty much the same deal. Your job as a parent is not to pretend that porn does not exist, but to explain that the behaviors depicted in it are unrealistic and often unhealthy.
Or, even doing what you want and accidentally running across goatse guy?
Look, sooner or later your precious little angel will see that pic. He or she will also see many other disgusting things, both in real life, on television, and on the web. You can't prevent that, but hopefully you can give enough context to allow little Junior or Princess to assimilate it and get on with his or her life.
He's not looking to be the gestapo. He's looking to have some basic protections in place to protect his children from the unsavory parts of the Internet, and to make sure that they don't abuse the priviledge of having a computer in their rooms.
Look at the age ranges again. They're not going to accept those kinds of top-down restrictions blindly. They'll get that you don't trust them, aren't telling them what they can't see, and become naturally curious about it. And since you've given them no background or explanation at all, they'll have no frame of reference for assimilating it in a healthy way.
Re:Holy shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Ask the two oldest kids for technical support? You can put up any barrier you want but they will find a way around it.
Seriously: At that age you can guide them but you can't control them. Keep the machine(s) in a public area of the house. Observe what they are doing. Talk to them. The most important thing is to be honest with them. At that point in life you are preparing them to leave the nest. In 3 or 4 years they will ready to leave and face a world without parental controls or filters. Prepare them the best you can and have some confidence in them. Letting go is very difficult.
Re:A good router (Score:2, Insightful)
100% agree with the point of this post.
Trust shouldn't have to be "earned"; it should be granted. From what I've just read, I would certainly "trust' my children over OP's, hands down....
cheers,
Re:A good router (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Holy shit (Score:2, Insightful)
Go and speak to your neighbours?
"I don't trust you" (Score:4, Insightful)
you got a whole deal of connectivity/administration project there. quit your day job.
At home or in the work place, nothing says "I don't trust you" quite like Nazi parental controls.
How about... (Score:1, Insightful)
....you be a parent and idk.. talk to your kids about when and what they can do online instead of doing secret things behind thier backs so they resent it because they dont know why they arent allowed. You cant automate parenting.
Re:Replacing good parenting with tech solutions .. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice quip, but completely wrong. You just made the argument that you should never put a lock on the cabinet under the sink with all the nasty chemicals because if you use a lock, then you are having that lock be the parent and that lock is a lousy parent. You don't abandon locks on dangerous chemicals because using a lock means you are a bad parent. I've taught my kids to not go under the sink. And they don't. And there's a lock on it anyway. I guess by your reasoning I'm a bad parent using a lock for a parent, but I'd rather have the lock than to find my 3 year old drank drain-o.
It's possible to use technology (like a lock on a cabinet) to assist you in being a parent.
And don't put the PC in their room. Putting the PCs in the family room is not limiting access. Putting down firewalls and time limits is limiting.
Great, so you are telling the person asking the question that they are doing wrong. "How do I fix my Toyota?" and your answer is "Screw Toyota, get a bicycle." It might be the better solution, but isn't an answer to the question asked. They want to get the PC out of the shared space. They want to get it in the rooms. So how do they do that best? Your answer? "Don't do it." I understand your answer, but it isn't an answer to the question asked, and I've been confining my comments to the question asked. If you have fundamental issues with the question itself, then everything you say is off topic.
Re:Do this, ground your kids, make them Engineers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Holy shit (Score:5, Insightful)
I totally understand where you are coming from, but I think restriction might be the better option. Logs will allow you to see if your child is visiting sites you do not approve of, but it won't make the 12 year old unsee that video of "Hot Asian slut taking it in all three holes at once". (I'd assume this is one of the things that he is trying to filter out). Also, it may not be the child's intent to go look at said video. It might be a bait and switch link that takes them there, some malware infestation, the 15 year old jumping on the 12 year old's machine to do his porn surfing, or some other scenario where it really isn't the 12 year old's fault.
Plus, depending on how much surfing the kids are doing, there could be a pretty big list of logs to go through every day.
And of course the biggest issue.....do you think the parent has the time for the hours of talk/psychological help that would be required if one of the kids ran into goatse.cx? One bad click and the kid would be damaged for life. The parent could only hold the child as they rocked back and forth trying to sleep but unable to remove the image that has burned itself into the retinas.
Try the old fashion Method..... (Score:3, Insightful)
and turn the things off when you don't want them to use it.
That project you stated looks fare to complex for a single home user to manage. Yes you could get OS X/Windows 7/Linux to have schedules to shut things down, block sites etc... but really it is easier and cheaper to have a lockable cupboard and lock the computer/s up when you don't want them to be use and just make rules for your kids to follow about usage hours/grounding etc...
Don't rely on technology to parent for you (from a family of 4) you need to do it yourself. If you don't trust your kids with what they look up when you are not there then only bring out the computers when you are there.
One thing to note; children will _ALWAYS_ find a way around any security/punishment you give them (even the physical one I am talking about). The best solution to this is active parenting and trying to be an unobtrusive part of their lives
Re:+200 informative (Score:5, Insightful)
This is all awesome stuff, but really when confronted with all of this I would just go next door or go to the library to look up what I wanted on the net and email whoever I pleased (facebook etc..) and so will these kids.
limiting Kids is not going to teach them anything you have to educate to do the right thing.
when you have a hammer (Score:3, Insightful)
everything looks like a nail.
The complexity and ongoing maintenance (nevermind teaching how to actually use these things) of setting up a full group policy domain.... for 3 PCs.... to be administered by a non tech savvy, time-limited single parent...
Seriously you're so much better off teaching them a few PC basics and installing a few filters etc. on their PCs. And meatspace solutions (e.g. physically locking away PCs or kb/mice). I'm not going to get into the censorship/freedom thing, its not my (or your) kids....
Worked fine for me growing up, parents would say 'no more nintendo' and enforce it with a stick lol.
Re:Replacing good parenting with tech solutions .. (Score:1, Insightful)
Gee, with an intelligent, rational, calm, and compassionate response like that, I'm sure you must be an amazing parent! Not only does your adolescent insult show how in-touch you are with today's youth, you've managed to come up a solution to an eons-old problem with one word. Talk! Yes, it's so simple! You just... Talk!
We won't bother worrying about trivial details like "what to talk about" or "when" or unnecessary, complicated details like "what does this child's psyche respond to best". As long as you just talk, it's aaaaall going to be ooookay.
You could market a book on this. Of course, it would only be one word on a single page, so you might have trouble getting a copyright, but hey, as long as you're helping to mold today's youth into tomorrow's perfect leaders, who cares, right?
Re:Holy shit (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"I don't trust you" (Score:3, Insightful)
Because it's when you get one when you start rationalizing irrational behaviour regarding them?
If you suspect that he's a kid since he says it's the second message he got, implying that that's what a kid would get, why do you then turn around and assert that a kid will actually get the first one?
The purpose of restrictions is to ensure that someone with limited abilities of judgement will survive into adulthood. Choose them accordingly. If you want to send a message, try using your vocal chords; it's more efficient, less painful for all involved, and the message received is less likely to be the opposite of what you sent.
It's seldom so that a 15-year old wants to see porn? Really?
Really? Really? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're awesome, set up a Windows box, Mac, and Linux machine to expose them to all three big worlds with multiuser accounts on each.
Accept the younger generation is smarter than you and will easily circumvent any idle attempts at restriction.
Unless your genuine intent is to spur the next generation of defcon attendees, just let them learn how to compute while they still live in your house.
Re:Holy shit (Score:4, Insightful)
Heh, I had a computer in my room with internet when I was 14... As did my two younger brothers at a similar age.
Luckily my parents are fairly open about anything would not block me from accessing anything. I knew that if there was anything I was curious about I could look it up.. If I did not understand it I would just ask either my mom or dad depending on what the subject was.
Being a 14 year old boy of course I started collecting various pieces of 'art' and had an extensive collection by the time I was 16 :-p
Now.... Did this damage me or turn me into a serial killer or rapist? Nope. Neither of my brothers are nutters either *chuckles*
Having two teachers as parents can be quite nice. Of course it did mean that logic was king. If I could reasonably argue why I should be allowed to do something I was allowed to do something. Whining did not work -at all-. Presenting a reasonable set of arguments for my position always did (asssuming they agreed, which they usually did).
Learning these things is essential to any kid/youth. I personally think many of the problems in the world now are based on people not learning basic skills regarding how to communicate.. Especially regarding disagreements.
Meh, I'm getting ranty now and should be at work... :-p
Re:Holy shit (Score:3, Insightful)
The point is that technical solutions aren't always the answer.
He didn't say a locked room, just a common area designated as a "computer room". Putting the computers in a common area (be it a locked computer room or the corner of a living room) so you can keep a general eye on what they're doing, and you solve all of the content issues.
Tell your children that they can use the computer from 6am to 10pm. You don't need to lock them away in a room - if they obey, that's their sleep cycles protected. Punish them if you catch them sneaking off to use chat rooms at 2am. Hell, unplug the router and hide it in your bedroom if you don't think you can trust them.
Installing a complicated access and content filter costs more money and time to set up, and more to keep running. Just sit down with the children, explain the rules, and use your usual parenting skills to impose them.
Re:"I don't trust you" (Score:2, Insightful)
Why do I suspect you are much closer to being a kid than to having one?
Because you're a moron. I'm a father with number 2 on the way.
Restrictions can tell a kid "I give a fuck about you," not just "I don't trust you."
Yeah fantastic, you can say both at the same time. Trouble is you shouldn't be saying "I don't trust you" and you should be preparing your child to take some responsibility for their actions.
A lack of restrictions can mean "I either don't give a shit about you or have given up."
Who said anything about a lack of restrictions? You enforce them in person, not via some fucking software.
If a kid already has a dogged determination to see porn and shock sites, then yes, it's probably shutting the barn doors after the cows have gotten out. But that's seldom the issue.
An interest in porn won't kill a kid. Interest in sex is natural. Interest in forbidden stuff and rebellion is natural. Not being able to come to mum and dad when in real trouble is not so natural. Not learning from your mistakes and keeping to your own boundaries can be fatal.
INstead why dont you... (Score:2, Insightful)
Instead I would place the computer in one room (not their bedrooms) so you can control it, secondly I would only buy one computer, as it is not cheap these days, and I would buy one of these thin client units...from tigerdirect...
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=15398&sku=N316-1014 [tigerdirect.com]
which allows you to set up as many people (up to 4 per unit) per one computer.
Thirdly, I would hire a geek squad dude (or put an add in the paper saying you need an admin to help quickly set up accounts on a machine for 40$) to come to my house and configure the 3 kid accounts and do all the AV install etc...
for usually about 30 or 40$ per hour, as this is child's play for a learned admin, he will set up limited accounts, and tell you how to use your system....also keep his number handy. What he will do in 15 minutes will take you all day to figure out....also
he may even be able to set up the rest of the kids consoles (if you have a wireless router) such as playstation xbox etc...
to allow your kids to access internet from their other consoles....keeping the pc time to a minimum....unless they have no consoles.
Make sure to also ask for a backup of the router configs, in case he has to come in afterwards to reset it, as it is very easy to do from a backup when someone fiddled by accident or on purpose with your router. Also backup of the pc would be nice too, into
a separate drive or partition that way if you ever get a virus and need to reinstall, you dont lose personal files because everyone KNOWS to keep their personal stuff in their personal folders on tat separate driver or partition.
Re:+200 informative (Score:5, Insightful)
No it's not.
It is more like; take a active interest in your kids lives, talk to them even about the hard subjects. Let them learn from your experiences and mistakes. Don't rely on technology, other people and laws to do your job for you.
Bring up kids _IS_ the hardest/most rewarding thing you (or anyone) will ever do.
Trust (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Holy shit (Score:2, Insightful)