Tunneling Under the Great Firewall? 403
An anonymous reader writes "I am traveling to China in the near future, and needless to say as a Slashdot reader I am going to require access to the Internet. The whole, unadulterated, unfiltered Internet. Also needless to say, I am very leery of the government there (my lack of a nickname on this submission being testament to that). I will only be there for a few weeks, and will not be using the computer for much of that time, so I don't want to shell out a lot of money to a VPN service. However I also don't want to be hindered by extremely slow speeds such as those provided by the Tor network. I have experience implementing Web servers and work fairly often with Linux; however, many of my friends who also face the same dilemma don't. What would be the most cost-effective (free is best) method for me to subvert the Great Firewall during my travels while maintaining sufficient anonymity and enjoying sufficient speed?"
Fear (Score:3, Insightful)
This fear of China is just WTF. "my lack of a nickname on this submission being testament to that", VPN's, Tor, all of that just to browse the regular Internet. Anyone who writes these things obviously have not been there or in the other Asian countries.
Most of the western quality hotels provide access to unfiltered Internet and you are most likely staying in one of those. Besides, the Chinese and Asian in general are quite relaxed people. Just think if American cops would be this patient and try to help the guy [liveleak.com].
Seriously, the Chinese, Asian and rest of the world hate and fear by Americans is getting beyond ridiculous.
Really? (Score:1, Insightful)
Ummmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
I suggest that you play nice with China's laws if you are going to China. Trying to bypass their firewall as a foreigner traveling there is more likely to attract the sort of attention you don't want than anything else. As you said, you're just going to be there for a few weeks. Do you *really* need to search for the kind of stuff they filter out while you are there?
My wife travels regularly to China for work. We are very careful about our conversations on the phone when she's there, and about the emails we send when she's there. I sure as hell would never advise her to try to bypass their firewall.
If you are a Chinese freedom activist, by all means, you know what you're getting into, bypass away. I support the people of China in their efforts to access the whole internet, to speak their minds, to be as free as they care to be.
If you are a Westerner visiting, I'd suggest you just hold your horses there bucko and deal with the internet you can get from your hotel room and don't make yourself look more suspicious than you actually are. You really, really don't want anybody to think you are doing anything against Chinese interests while you're there. Seriously.
Re:Fear (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot rails against DMCA, censorship, walled gardens, etc, and you expect the Chinese government to get a free pass? What a joke.
You can raise frail strawmen all you want, but it's not about how "relaxed" Asians or anything else like "hate and fear" that you've just made up in your post. It's very specifically about the Chinese government. Exactly what part of "I am very leery of the government" have you completely failed to understand?
Is this REALLY a conversation you want to get into?
Ask Slashdot: How to Break the Law (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry, but that's what this is. The internet is regulated by the Chinese government, it's kind of asinine to ask users how to circumvent and break Chinese laws.
When you're in another country or in someone else's home, you follow and abide by their rules. It's not just being respectful, its good manners.
The Great Firewall sucks, but that's how they roll. Just suck it up and deal with it.
Re:SSH (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure if this is what your referring to but I use a SSH socks proxy and tsocks under linux quite a bit to allow proxy unaware apps to be use it (like RDP). The only issue I have with this setup is DNS. Since it primarily uses UDP not TCP for lookups they are all performed against the locally configured name servers not the remote. I haven't found an elegant solution for this yet but your network.proxy.socks_remote_dns config may help a lot (I've never heard of that before).
For the original submitter, I understand your reluctance to being restricted and object to the idea of the great firewall as much as the next guy, however is completely open access really worth breaking the law there and potentially being imprisoned in China. Also keep in mind that while you may object to the concept of the firewall but you are a guest in the country and breaking any countries laws while as such is really disrespectful. If you really don't like the law don't travel there, if your trying to make some sort of political statement (which I doubt) then best of luck to you... China isn't well know for being good sports about that sort of thing.
Dear Slashdot " how do i commit a crime" (Score:5, Insightful)
What you are asking is illegal there. If you get caught bad things will happen to you. Is it really worth the risk for a couple of weeks? Are you THAT addicted?
Re:China asks Slashdot how to catch hungry minds (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, if all information wants to be free, it will be free for everyone, including the "bad guys".
Re:Good luck! (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you really trust using a random SSL proxy for getting out? That's likely to cause even more problems, because you almost certainly do not know who owns the proxy and what they're doing with your traffic. If the guy has to do anything sensitive like banking, his ability to do so safely has dropped precipitously.
Re:Good luck! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ummmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. Remember the US government is under no obligation to get you out of prison for trying to subvert their firewall. Most of the time if you commit an obvious crime in another country, the US is more than happy to let you serve your time.
Don't bring a good computer (Score:2, Insightful)
I advise you to also bring a 'throw-away' computer, unless you keep your current computer with you at all times. Depending on your business, if you leave your computer behind somewhere (hotel room, security) you may return to find it perfectly fine, maybe even with a bit extra hardware or software if you get my meaning.
At the very least, be prepared to wipe it clean when you get back home.
Re:Ask Slashdot: Civil Disobedience (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, I'm not sure if I'd really do it in China as a tourist, not that they'd probably do much (China gets western businessmen all the time) but I just wouldn't want to take the risk unless.
But really, if a law is unjust and violates natural rights, you have every right to break it, some may say you even have a responsibility to break it because by not breaking it you in essence prop the law up.
Hardly a common example (Score:1, Insightful)
A friend of mine is working for a supplier of automotive parts with (at the time) two branch offices in Luxembourg, and one in the United States (Detroit).
All 3 are linked together with a VPN.
And just after the planes struck the buildings on 911
Lets stop right there.
A single event, nine years ago, precipitated by an attack by foreign nationals on the United States.
You're using the example of (presumably) the US Government shutting down encrypted Internet traffic during a time of national emergency to support a claim that VPN traffic in the USA is unreliable.
That's just pathetic.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
While not necessarily the best tone in the world, I actually agree with DJ Jones here.
Here's your decision tree:
1) Is the website you want to see worth defying the laws of your hosting nation?
2) Is absolutely no way you can do without it until you come home?
3) Do you have some kind of diplomatic immunity, wealthy connections, etc that can extract you from a sticky situation?
You get the picture.
Imagine this post on the Arabian Slashdot:
I am getting ready to travel to the United States and don't want it to interrupt my terrorist training. Can you guys recommend a way around the DHS's websniffing protocols, eavesdropping, cellular tracking, etc?
And what would your advice be??
Opportunistically, if you gave advice about methods, would you feel bad if he landed in Gitmo?
Think about the implications. After all, it is only the internet and you don't live there. Think deeply.
Make sure you understand the cost. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the requirements and restrictions on the Internet in China are enshrined in Law in China, you may be putting your visa at risk.
It's like a Australian 18 year old coming to the US and drinking alcohol and getting caught. In Australia, there no restriction above 18, in the US, it's 21. You get caught, you may not be able to enter the country again.
A local law is a local law, no matter what your views are. What you can do freely in your country may be illegal and carry harsh punishments in others.
Re:Screenshare (Score:4, Insightful)
Obligatory MLK quote (Score:2, Insightful)
"There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all... One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly...I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law."
- Martin Luther King, "Letter from the Birmingham Jail," April 16, 1963.
Re:SSH tunneling (Score:1, Insightful)
"Ask the Chinese at internet cafes, they'll probably be more than happy to point you to the workarounds they use."
I really rather doubt they will. You don't seem to understand how the chinese system of control works. From what I have read very recently from multiple sources, nobody is going to want to be openly seen explaining anything like this, in case they get asked to go drink tea with the police. Also the internet cafés don't work the way free wifi from starbucks works; they aren't just businesses connecting to the internet with central control. The internet cafés are part of the system of little-brother surveillance; they are forced to be.
If you, the OP, or anyone reading this ever goes to China, for the love of all that is good, don't ask a Chinese citizen to help you break the laws of their country; the consequences for them are worse than they will be for you.
Re:Really? (Score:3, Insightful)
My buddy lived in China (Beijing) for two years. At least as of 2008, accessing the english internet was either a) slow as hell or b) largely firewalled off. Major news sites, useful tools (particularly to a power-user) and a whole host of things we take for granted either had limited availability or simply couldn't connect to the US server. As I understand it, it's gotten worse, not better since then.
Case in point: Appreciate what you have here in the US of A. You have it really, really good here.
Re:Really? (Score:3, Insightful)
You are aware that even mail.google.com gets blocked once in a while?
Risk/reward would still apply. All you're doing with this use-case is increasing the value of the website. The calculation still needs to happen in your head.
Re:Fear (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. I dont understand also other parts of the question...
"Shell out a lot of money for a VPN service..." $9.95US for 1 month is a Lot of money?
He also claims he knows computers yet does not think of setting up his own VPN gateway at home? It's clear he is not moving there, just going there for a few weeks. Nobody I know terminates all their leases and sells all their stuff to go out of the country even for a few months....
Pay $9.95 for VPN service each month, or set up a linux box as a VPN point. Call it done.
Re:SSH (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:SSH (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, this [perturb.org] is what I was thinking about. You get an actual entry in ifconfig, and with a little routing it should be entirely transparent to all applications.
Re:Good luck! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ask Slashdot: Civil Disobedience (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm not sure that the ability to view websites blocked by Chine while your visiting their country constitute a natural right. Even granting that you do have a responsibility to break laws you feel are unjust, you must still face the consequences of breaking that law. A responsible adult must look at their obligations and determine if the consequences of breaking the law and being punished outweigh the benefits of breaking the law.
Is making this statement worth going to a chinese jail over? Is making this statement worth leaving your child without a parent, or your parent without a child over? Will the good that you do for society by this act outweigh the harm you cause to those who love you?
Re:SSH (Score:5, Insightful)
respect and saving face is a huge part of the culture
And in other places they eat live eels. There's a lot of stupid shit in the world.
While what you say may be true, to say it like that is like saying we should give them a pass for their obnoxious behavior simply because they're used to it... Shall we give racists in our home countries a free pass on their idiocy simply because it's cultural for them to be hating?
flip the tables and say some guy wanted to view CP in the US
Oh please do drag that stupid CP argument out here so we can kick it to death.
The US allows brutal degradation of actresses for porn, depictions of rape and murder, actual footage of such (usually), depictions of infants being cooked and fed to dogs, etc, etc, etc. And in the middle of that they want to draw a fence around CP.
Many token arguments are made, such as it encouraging real abuses, but they could be made for any of the rest of that cesspool. Ultimately they all fail to the brutal reality that censorship and FUD aren't security. The blind panic around CP is growing old, we can see it's not actually doing anything to protect anyone. And the censorship not only wouldn't help, and is immoral to implement, but is impossible.
I'd support someone looking up communism when it was the panic word. How could I draw the line at some other panic word? And even if I could, how could I know I wasn't just panicking? So no. For practical and ethical reasons we can't censor even if the content disgusts, scares us, or reveals our war-crimes.
circumventing the laws of a nation of which you are not a citizen is not only illegal
Tautologically, circumventing any law is legal. And just as meaninglessly, breaking a law is always illegal. But is the law right? Is the nation valid?
why risk it? (Score:2, Insightful)
At a western hotel I'm sure 95% of your needs will be met. If you want free-roaming unfettered internet access and speeds throughout china... well... I would ask why you would need such access and if that access would be worth a stay in a Chinese prison.
Don't go (Score:3, Insightful)
My daughter is living in Beijing for a year so before she left I got her a notebook and set it up with everything she'd need. For a brief moment I considered installing an SSH tunnel or VPN access back here to home, but then I thought about what my ex-wife's voice would sound like when she said, "they are detaining our daughter because they found military grade encryption software on her computer. How did that get there?" and decided against it.
Seriously, if you disagree with their policy don't go. In your own country you have the right to civil disobedience against unjust laws. In another country you are a guest and should act appropriately.
I'm an Aussie, our countries fought together in many wars (some still ongoing) and about as peaceful a partner as the US can get. Despite having travelled to the US about a dozen times and even lived over there for a couple of years, I have refused to return because you want to fingerprint me on entry now.
If you disagree with a requirement of entry. Don't go. It is astonishing that you would premeditate to break China's laws because of your political views when your own country has a bunch that you have not fought against.
Sheesh.
--M
Re:Fear (Score:5, Insightful)
You guys make China sounds like a deathtrap. (Score:2, Insightful)
LOL (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bit woeful, fail actually. (Score:3, Insightful)
"You have no possible reply that is not hypocritical so I won't be responding any more" screams TROLL and is a cheap cop-out screaming you are so unsure of your position you can't defend it, but I'll feed it anyways...
Exactly. How is this hypocritical, at all? You have no entitlement to healthcare, because if you were entitled to it, it must be forcefully taken from someone else. It's not that hard to understand, really. I just gave you the definition of human/natural rights as used in law... it has a definition, how can you contradict it? "Rights" in general has various meanings, sure. Natural rights is a pretty specific concept that says you have a right to not be coerced, this includes not being held up for money with the threat of being held up at gunpoint by the IRS or any other government. Just because no government recognizes this doesn't mean that it's not the definition of natural rights!