Amateur Radio In the Backcountry? 376
bartle writes "I spend a lot of time hiking in the Colorado Rockies. Cell phone reception is very unreliable and I'm curious if carrying a small amateur radio would make any sense at all. I don't want to add too much weight to my pack; from what I gather, a radio weighing a pound would give me at most 5 to 10 watts of transmitting power. I have no idea if this is enough to be effective in a mountainous region, and I'm hoping some experienced Slashdot hams could give me a clue. I'm only interested in acquiring a radio and license if it is a lot more effective and reliable than the cell phone I already carry. Otherwise I'll just wait for Globalstar to bring back their duplex service and buy a next-generation SPOT messaging device. (I know some Slashdotters will want to suggest a modern SPOT or Personal Locator Beacon; these are suitable for the worst kinds of emergencies, but I'll point out that reliable communication can help prevent small crises from becoming big ones.) Are small amateur radios effective in the field, or are vehicle rigs really the only way to go? Or am I better off just waiting for satellite?"
Re:VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree. I've used cell phones, VHF/UHF HTs, and satellite phones in the backcountry and if reliable emergency communication is your primary concern a satellite phone like Iridium is your best bet.
You can get portable high frequency ham radios that can talk over the horizon, but they start go get a bit bulky and require an more complex antenna setup for best results.
With an Iridium phone you can get it out, lock onto a satellite and be talking to someone in minutes. You do need to see a sizable portion of the sky, though -- they don't work very well in dense forest. And keep in mind 911 doesn't work on Iridium so have some numbers programmed in. The cell phone revolution seems to have rendered actually remembering someone's phone number a lost art.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
X-Band Repeat (Score:4, Interesting)
If you move forward with this, one option is to setup your car as a repeater. You can park your car at the trailhead and turn on the repeater in your car. Then the idea is to hopefully hit your car from your handheld, then your car can hit a repeater. In addition to the additional radio in the car that supports Cross-Band repeating, you will need to add a battery or two to your car, and a fresh one in the trunk.
Like others have all pointed out, the handheld frequencies are all generally line of site. This could mean that in a real emergency, you may need to climb to the top of the nearest peak to actually have line of site to anyone. Then once on the top of the peak you may find that your cell phone works as well!
Amateur radios work great in the backcountry in communicating with your own party in a different campsite or at a base camp while you continue on up to a summit.
The SPOTs as you have already researched works pretty well. I especially like the non-911 "Help" button, which just sends a predefined message to someone. I think this is a great feature, as you may need someone you know to start hiking up to you to help you out, but may not need a full Search and Rescue.
It definitely depends on the situation... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll second the opinion about the Yaesu FT-817 as a great portable "DC to Daylight" rig that can run SSB and FM voice modes as well as CW (code) on most of the commonly used bands from HF to UHF. It's a little larger, but is extremely capable. The Icom IC703 is another portable rig. See one in use hiking in Colorado here [youtube.com].
I've been a ham for 53 years now and have run the kilowatt rigs with big beam antennas over 100 feet in the air, but I have the most challenging fun with a 4 watt CW rig and a wire or mobile antenna.
Re:Don't do it! (Score:4, Interesting)
You really need to get off your high horse.
The guy has a license - so that means he passed the same test as you did. He thinks it might be a reasonable safety option - and he's trying to verify that opinion. If he winds up using it for an emergency, then he well within the basis and purpose of the service. If he doesn't use to do anything else but talk to some buddies while he's hiking - he STILL is within reasonable and normal usage.
So PLEASE drop out of lecture mode.
HF / CW (Score:4, Interesting)
FWIW I live in Colorado.
Most responders seem to assume some sort of VHF but, as a few people point out, that's not really a great idea because there are big gaps in repeater coverage in the mountains.
However, 5W (or less) on HF CW would be ample for emergency communications, and you wouldn't have to worry about whether there's a repeater nearby. There are lots of designs for lightweight QRP (i.e., low power) single-frequency (or limited-frequency) rigs that would be suitable. I'd probably go for one that transmitted on 40m, just because there's more CW activity there, so you're more likely to be heard quickly than on, say, 80m.
I don't hike in the mountains, but if I did I would definitely carry such a rig with me. It only needs to save your life once.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Interesting)
So glad to see some people thinking about that. I hate how often the ham community shuns CB and the mere mention of it. Yes, it certainly has it's own problems, but nearly EVERY truck and a good amount of touring motorcycles are equipped with CB. Considering how many charity bike rides that ARS covers that make use of motorcycles, this also seems overlooked. I've never thought of it from the delivery, but I'll certainly keep that in mind in the future.
Re:Don't do it! (Score:3, Interesting)
Field Day is about operating under minimal conditions. This can be useful in an emergency but that is not its SOLE or MAIN focus. It is not a training exercise for any branch of the military or law enforcement.
It's also about getting amateur radio out there in front of the public in order to attract people to the hobby. There's a low-level disagreement in my ARC about whether we should continue to have our Field Day activities in the same remote mountain campground we've been using for the last few years or move them to somewhere more accessible to the general public just for that reason.
73 de KJ6BSO
Re:Don't do it! (Score:3, Interesting)
I can agree with that. We had a lot of visitors at our Field Day site. I was lucky enough to have an opening to Europe on PSK31 when a bunch of cub scouts came through. It took them awhile to wrap their heads around the idea of there being no internet or phone service involved. The number of people who understand the tech behind the devices they use daily is dangerously small.
I hope you get out of the hills and get good results; If you aren't showing your work, you're not working!
Re:VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Don't do it! (Score:4, Interesting)
How do you know he didn't - Cause if you knew my call - you wouldn't make that same assumption about me.
Happens that I had to pay to take the test(s) at the FCC in person (including code at 20wpm). So I DID likely take the same tests as you. Get over yourself.
Further - I've held certain positions within the amateur community that causes me to have practical experience with getting FCC to do something about violations of 97.113 (and have had those people sited.) He is WELL within the basis and purpose as currently stated.
Let the guy enjoy his hobby - as I would suggest you do too. (and try to not be such a license bigot) After all - the thing that binds all of us together within the hobby is the love of the radio art.
Re:Amateur satellites (Score:3, Interesting)
The antenna issue can be dealt with [makezine.com] but how would he know how to find the satellite out in the backcountry? He'd have to lug a laptop with sat tracking software installed along with him. Besides, working satellites can be pretty tricky. Not only do you have to track the moving bird with your antenna, you have to continually adjust your frequencies to compensate for the Doppler Effect. The OP doesn't even have his ticket yet; it might be a little much to expect an inexperienced operator to make a satellite contact.
I'm with you (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got a ham station [flickr.com], and it includes an AM/LSB/USB base CB radio (top center in that image) and associated dedicated antenna. If the goal is being able to communicate in an emergency (and that is one of my goals as a ham), ignoring one of the most widespread tools out there is not the best idea.
It's also not fair to just say "rednecks and freaks"; there are a lot of folks in this area, ranchers and so forth, not "rednecks" by any definition other than perhaps suntan, who use CB as a practical (and free) means to keep in touch. I know some that are a good deal more sophisticated in both outlook and education than some of the characters I've run into here on slashdot.
For that matter, ham radio is no exclusive preserve of reason, manners, and intelligence, either. So let's keep the "redneck" comments down to a dull roar, shall we?
Re:HF/low power (Score:4, Interesting)
a QRP (low power) rig on 40 meters can work hundreds or thousands of miles
When I got my ham radio license, the instructor told the class a funny story.
There was this old guy out hiking, and the old guy carried a 40 meter Morse code radio. The guy hurt his leg and could not continue. Some hikers came along and offered help; the old guy told them "pitch my tent, help me inside, and throw this antenna wire up into the trees." That's all he wanted, and after they did that, they walked away (they never followed up with anyone).
So the old guy started tapping out his emergency report. One old ham operator, hundreds of miles away, was monitoring the 40 meter band and got the report. And in fact you had to be hundreds of miles away to get it; the report wasn't possible to pick up close by. So the ham operator in another state got on the phone to the Snohomish County Search and Rescue, to tell them what was going on.
Our instructor works for the Search and Rescue department, and he disbelieved the initial report. "Did you say the 40 meter band?!?" When S&R got to the park, they couldn't pick up the signal; they had to use cell phones to talk to the guy in another state to communicate with the guy who needed help.
So, the moral of the story is: if you want to whistle up help, maybe a 40 meter rig isn't the best way to go.
Personally, I'd carry a 406 MHz personal locator [equipped.com] beacon.
steveha
Ugh, God, there's one in every ARC (Score:5, Interesting)
"Don't do it." FUCK you, chief. Who are you to discourage a potential future Ham based on what YOU say the Amateur service is "for?" People become Hams for all sorts of reasons. The FCC specifies what we may NOT do on amateur bands, and gives reasons for establishing them in the first place, but EVERY use permissible is entirely valid and should be encouraged to further the hobby.
So this guy starts out with a backpack HF rig to make sure he has a way to get messages out of the wild, and then what? You should know how this goes if you've been in the hobby as long as you say you have. You start out with a specific purpose, and then one thing or another starts interesting you, and before you know it you're watching the waterfall for PSK31 on HF and trying to DX with Zimbabwe a couple months later.
I became a Ham BECAUSE of the service's emergency provisions. I watched a plane fly into the North Tower of the WTC and kill my cousin and her coworkers in Cantor-Fitzgerald, and then heard about ARES and RACES volunteers stitching Manhattan's emergency services together so they could communicate in the wake of having their repeaters turned to ash. I heard those stories and said "I want to be on that team. THAT'S how I'm going to contribute." So I got a license, and got elmered by some of the guys who volunteered on Wall Street, and eventually started learning about how huge the hobby is and how much you can do with it. I found out about MARS and Skywarn and EchoLink and IRLP, and all the incredible things you can do with just a little dual-band HT, and I was hooked. Now my friends and I talk on a number of the local repeaters in town (I've since moved) on a regular basis.
But according to you, I never should have started, because emergency services are not the "primary purpose" of the Amateur Service. Kill yourself. I can't stand curmudgeonly old fucks like you who think if you didn't start on CW on 10m you're somehow illegitimate. Get over yourself.
Re:I'm with you (Score:5, Interesting)
"It's also not fair to just say "rednecks and freaks".
It's past unfair and well into "stupid". Those of us who drive long distance often use CB to keep track of road conditions. Just lurking is usually enough. The CB craze is mostly over, (praise be to Allah!) so there are fewer dumbfucks polluting the airwaves.
Mobile crossband repeater (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking of repeaters, a really good option is to have a good mobile dual band rig in your car, capable of what's called crossband repeating. Basically the idea is you transmit from your HT (handheld) on one band (like 70cm), which is received by the rig in your car and retransmitted on another band (like 2m) preset to the input frequency of a local repeater. If the local repeater has autopatch (most do) then you can make phone calls, or in an emergency just call for help to any of the people listening to that repeater. Also many repeaters are networked, so you can communicate across many hundreds or thousands of miles if you wanted to get in touch with a specific person (like a buddy that listens in for you while you're on hikes).
Both the wattage and antenna gain of a mobile (car-mounted) rig are orders of magnitude better than any HT rig (due to FCC regulation of wattage allowed for handheld transcievers, antenna size, and even vehicle groundplane), so you could reliably work repeaters dozens of miles away in that scenario.
Oh, on another note, many HTs are now multiple band (my Yaesu handheld transmits on 4 bands!), and thus the OEM will include an antenna that is only mediocre across all the bands the HT supports. For best performance you should use an antenna specifically tuned for the band you are going to use. I used 70cm for your HT in my example above, because antennas for that band are nice and short which is good for portability. Then you can have a high gain 2m on your car that can really reach out and touch repeaters far away.
Re:Amateur satellites (Score:1, Interesting)
You don't need a laptop for sat tracking. Print out a week of sat passes on a piece of paper and take it with you. Or, use one of the iPhone sat tracking apps. I'm sure android has them too.
Sat tracking is trivial with a handheld Yagi and you don't need to worry so much about the Doppler shift on FM. I made a contact the first time I tried to contact a sat. It's easy.
N8YY
Re:Ugh, God, there's one in every ARC (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't say anything like that, and you're just projecting your hate for someone else on me. Did someone burn you at some point? Anyway, let me try to break it down for you.
This guy is not interested in "becoming a ham." You saw 9/11 happen and felt a need to contribute to the situation. You saw the other hams doing their thing and wanted to join them. So you did. However, this guy is different. He does not want to contribute like you did. This guy DOES NOT CARE about ham radio. All he wants is to replace his cellphone with something that "works better". Did you not read his post?
Anyway, so pretend he decides to go along with it. He gets a license and spends a few thousand getting a mobile rig, starts trying to make "phone calls" and all of a sudden he's got people listening to his "phone calls" and maybe some talk over the top of him and oh my gods what kind of stupidity is this? So he yells at these other people to go away, since this is his private conversation and they shouldn't be listening, which is of course missing the point to you or I who expects a radio to be a radio, but to him it's a big expensive cellphone that doesn't work the way he expects. So after a few months of this he gives up and sells the equipment and tells all of his friends (and their friends and so on...) that ham radio is an expensive waste of time full of jerks who listen to your phone calls. This is of course false and seems comically implausible to your or I, but he doesn't understand that!
This sort of scenario is not at all uncommon, and every time it happens it is the fault of the hams who refused to step in and provide guidance or worse, hams who misrepresented what the service really is - under the misguided idea that we are somehow obligated to grow our ranks at any cost. Not everyone is a "potential new ham". You have to evaluate THEIR wants and needs and expectations and give them enough information to properly decide for themselves whether or not they should continue.
All I am trying to say is that if you are expecting ham radio to directly replace some other service, and nothing more, you are going to waste everyone's time and a lot of your money. Ham radio is a hobby and not an appliance. I would rather you not have a license than have an expired license and a misguided hate of ham radio. I fail to understand how that makes me an "old curmudgeon" who should commit suicide. It does not help anyone for someone to have a license and no understanding of what that license means.
Re:Amateur satellites (Score:3, Interesting)
Seems like the amateur radio folks need to get together with the amateur rocketry folks and cook some shit up and put a sucker in a geo-stationary orbit.
now that would be brain science ;)