Amateur Radio In the Backcountry? 376
bartle writes "I spend a lot of time hiking in the Colorado Rockies. Cell phone reception is very unreliable and I'm curious if carrying a small amateur radio would make any sense at all. I don't want to add too much weight to my pack; from what I gather, a radio weighing a pound would give me at most 5 to 10 watts of transmitting power. I have no idea if this is enough to be effective in a mountainous region, and I'm hoping some experienced Slashdot hams could give me a clue. I'm only interested in acquiring a radio and license if it is a lot more effective and reliable than the cell phone I already carry. Otherwise I'll just wait for Globalstar to bring back their duplex service and buy a next-generation SPOT messaging device. (I know some Slashdotters will want to suggest a modern SPOT or Personal Locator Beacon; these are suitable for the worst kinds of emergencies, but I'll point out that reliable communication can help prevent small crises from becoming big ones.) Are small amateur radios effective in the field, or are vehicle rigs really the only way to go? Or am I better off just waiting for satellite?"
depends on where the repeater is (Score:5, Informative)
Most frequently you're going to be talking to a repeater, so it depends somewhat on where you are in relation to the repeater. Having said that 5-10 watts is a lot of power compared to a cell phone.
KA0ZRW - now in WA
Re:depends on where the repeater is (Score:5, Funny)
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It took me entirely too long to get this joke. Wow -- I'm aging, eh?
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Amateur satellites (Score:2)
That is a good point, but the antenna tends to be fairly cumbersome. The process and results of working amateur satellites would make it a somewhat dangerous communication method on which to rely with in trouble in the wilderness...
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The antenna issue can be dealt with [makezine.com] but how would he know how to find the satellite out in the backcountry? He'd have to lug a laptop with sat tracking software installed along with him. Besides, working satellites can be pretty tricky. Not only do you have to track the moving bird with your antenna, you have to continually adjust your frequencies to compensate for the Doppler Effect. The OP doesn't even have his ticket yet; it might be a little much to expect an inexperienced operator to make a satellite c
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I thought comm satellites were geostationary.
Not amateur radio satellites. It costs a lot of money to up a satellite in geosynchronous orbit, far more than even a bunch of hams could come up with. As a result, amateur radio satellites are usually piggybacked on commercial launches with a bit of spare capacity and end up in a much lower orbit.
You can go to the Amsat Web site [amsat.org] for more details.
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Seems like the amateur radio folks need to get together with the amateur rocketry folks and cook some shit up and put a sucker in a geo-stationary orbit.
now that would be brain science ;)
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Yes. Most frequently you're going to be talking to a repeater, so it depends somewhat on where you are in relation to the repeater.
Make sure you program the repeaters into the radio before you head out. These are available at many area ham radio websites. In addition...it would be worth the time/money to buy an extra battery...along with a battery adapter which uses AA batteries.
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whoosh!
Colorado Repeater Map (Score:3, Informative)
Original poster indicated that his primary area of focus is coverage in the Colorado mountains. I do not have specific first-hand knowledge of the coverage area for amateur VHF/UHF in Colorado, but this repeater map [ccarc.net] could be a good reference, though it is dated 2006. It's authors indicate that a 2009 version is for sale in print.
A preliminary skimming indicates coverage in several mountain cities. I'm no radio engineer, but I would imagine that the Estes Park repeater would probably do him pretty good in Ro
Re:Colorado Repeater Map (Score:4, Informative)
Original poster indicated that his primary area of focus is coverage in the Colorado mountains. I do not have specific first-hand knowledge of the coverage area for amateur VHF/UHF in Colorado, but this repeater map [ccarc.net] could be a good reference, though it is dated 2006. It's authors indicate that a 2009 version is for sale in print.
A preliminary skimming indicates coverage in several mountain cities. I'm no radio engineer, but I would imagine that the Estes Park repeater would probably do him pretty good in Rocky Mountain National Park -- at least in the highlands...
In addition to the above, there's a decent coverage map for Colorado Connection [colcon.org] here [colcon.org], but some of the repeaters (especially Durango) are missing from the map. Colorado Connection is one of the larger repeater systems in the state, consisting of almost twenty linked repeaters.
I'd still recommend a SPOT or similar system though; you never know where trouble might strike.
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In addition to the above, there's a decent coverage map for Colorado Connection [colcon.org] here [colcon.org], but some of the repeaters (especially Durango) are missing from the map. Colorado Connection is one of the larger repeater systems in the state, consisting of almost twenty linked repeaters.
Googling around, I did note that ColCon map, but immediately disregarded it. In addition to leaving out Durango, the Estes Park repeater [evarc.org] is clearly missing. Just doesn't seem like that great of a coverage map.
Re:Colorado Repeater Map (Score:5, Insightful)
In addition to the above, there's a decent coverage map for Colorado Connection [colcon.org] here [colcon.org], but some of the repeaters (especially Durango) are missing from the map.
It's been a long time since I was there, but at the time, the Durango area (and northeast to the Vallecito Reservoir) had solid coverage in the 144 MHz (2 meter) band. There was a solar-powered repeater operated by a local club on top of a mountain, broadcasting at 100 watts.
I had an interesting discussion with one of the club members about the perils of maintenance -- the road to the site was only open in the summer. The repeater went down for some reason (lightning strike?) before the road opened one spring, and they had to hire a helicopter to fly someone to the site to repair it.
I'd still recommend a SPOT or similar system though; you never know where trouble might strike.
I'll second this. SPOT [findmespot.com] transmitter/locators are really inexpensive, and will provide a much more precise location if you need help. You can also use it to send a simple "I'm OK" status message periodically, and later use it to plot your locations from which you sent the message.
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the Durango area (and northeast to the Vallecito Reservoir) had solid coverage in the 144 MHz (2 meter) band. There was a solar-powered repeater operated by a local club on top of a mountain, broadcasting at 100 watts.
Yes, it's bad form -- but I didn't look this up before I hit submit.
I believe this is the repeater that I remembered: DURANGO, Eagle Pass - K0EP [repeaterbook.com]
Mobile crossband repeater (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking of repeaters, a really good option is to have a good mobile dual band rig in your car, capable of what's called crossband repeating. Basically the idea is you transmit from your HT (handheld) on one band (like 70cm), which is received by the rig in your car and retransmitted on another band (like 2m) preset to the input frequency of a local repeater. If the local repeater has autopatch (most do) then you can make phone calls, or in an emergency just call for help to any of the people listening to that repeater. Also many repeaters are networked, so you can communicate across many hundreds or thousands of miles if you wanted to get in touch with a specific person (like a buddy that listens in for you while you're on hikes).
Both the wattage and antenna gain of a mobile (car-mounted) rig are orders of magnitude better than any HT rig (due to FCC regulation of wattage allowed for handheld transcievers, antenna size, and even vehicle groundplane), so you could reliably work repeaters dozens of miles away in that scenario.
Oh, on another note, many HTs are now multiple band (my Yaesu handheld transmits on 4 bands!), and thus the OEM will include an antenna that is only mediocre across all the bands the HT supports. For best performance you should use an antenna specifically tuned for the band you are going to use. I used 70cm for your HT in my example above, because antennas for that band are nice and short which is good for portability. Then you can have a high gain 2m on your car that can really reach out and touch repeaters far away.
Re:depends on where the repeater is (Score:4, Informative)
A little more technical detail:
Most small/compact (handheld) amateur radios are UHF/VHF units. (Usually called HTs, for Handheld Transceivers) The two most popular ham bands are the 2 meter (144-148 MHz) and 70 cm (approx. 440 MHz, I'm a bit rusty and haven't touched my radio in a few years.)
VHF/UHF communications is line of sight based, so unless you're within LOS of a repeater, you probably won't be able to do much, unless you have friends nearby with similar units. You can operate VHF/UHF HTs in a unit-to-unit (Simplex) mode, but most people use them to talk via repeaters. Repeaters listen on one frequency and transmit on another, usually with an offset of 600 kHz in the 2 meter band. Even if you are in coverage of a repeater, it's not always guaranteed someone will be listening.
APRS (Automatic Packet Reporting System) can report your position with periodic position broadcasts. This could let friends track your movements whenever you're in coverage of an APRS gateway or digipeater, for example at http://aprs.fi/ [aprs.fi]
There are also portable solutions for HF (global) communications (frequency 30 MHz), but the most portable solutions (suitable for a backpacker) will only do Morse code and not voice.
Getting a license is pretty easy and cheap (no Morse code required for the Technician license that allows VHF/UHF operation, and the FCC may even be allowing operation on the HF bands without a Morse test now - I'm not sure if they've updated their rules based on the ITU rule changes a few years ago), so I would recommend starting the process of studying and finding an exam session now.
Andy Dodd
N2YPH
VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:5, Informative)
and don't work well in the mountains unless you and the other guy are both within line of sight of each other. Repeaters can help work around the LoS problem but there probably aren't many in the area you are considering.
jacking up your power can only help so much. it's not like the higher power blasts through the mountains. Higher antennas can help, but if you're already in mountains, you are probably outgunned in the height department.
Some form of satellite is probably going to be your best bet. Or some lower frequency (LF/HF) that will cover variable ground terrain better.
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Or some lower frequency (LF/HF) that will cover variable ground terrain better.
One radio to look at is the Yaesu FT-817ND. It's a relatively compact battery-powered unit that covers HF as well as VHF and UHF bands. However this unit is still much heavier and bulkier than a modern 144 MHz handheld.
Question for the original poster - who do you want to talk to? Is this mainly for communication within a group of hikers? Is it to reach someone at a nearby city, and if so will that person also have a radio? Do you need to make a telephone call from your radio?
Re:VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree. I've used cell phones, VHF/UHF HTs, and satellite phones in the backcountry and if reliable emergency communication is your primary concern a satellite phone like Iridium is your best bet.
You can get portable high frequency ham radios that can talk over the horizon, but they start go get a bit bulky and require an more complex antenna setup for best results.
With an Iridium phone you can get it out, lock onto a satellite and be talking to someone in minutes. You do need to see a sizable portion of the sky, though -- they don't work very well in dense forest. And keep in mind 911 doesn't work on Iridium so have some numbers programmed in. The cell phone revolution seems to have rendered actually remembering someone's phone number a lost art.
Re:VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:5, Informative)
"With an Iridium phone you can get it out, lock onto a satellite and be talking to someone in minutes." ...and you can rent one for 40$ a week.
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And keep in mind 911 doesn't work on Iridium so have some numbers programmed in. The cell phone revolution seems to have rendered actually remembering someone's phone number a lost art.
This is untrue. 911 does work on Iridium and is handled by an outsourced company called Intrado. Additionally, you do not need an active account or SIM for 911 to work. Which makes an Iridium Sat phone a great emergency back-country tool.
Re:VHF/UHF are mainly line of sight (Score:5, Informative)
Amateur radio is dieing. There isnt a need for it anymore and the "hams" are getting old. 144mhz is the new CB where anything goes. I suggest getting satellite devices or something along those lines. Dont waste your time or money on amateur radio.
You know, you shouldn't demonstrate your ignorance in public like that. There were a record number of new amateur radio licenses issued in 2009 and the number of new licensees in 2010 is already ahead of that pace.
Not only is amateur radio not dying (note the correct spelling of that, BTW), it's thriving.
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Just make sure you bring your home-made J-pole twinlead antenna and a sling shot. Get that baby up in a tree and you'll hit something (Lyman, Pilchuck, Gold Mountain, Tiger, Cougar, Mission Ridge.. something.)
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"Line of sight" is not a myth. It is fact. You're talking about using a repeater. If there is a repeater, you need line of sight to hear and speak with it. That's how life above 30 MHz is. Period.
(Barring the exception of ~50Mhz when solar and ionospheric conditions are good, both of which are quite variable, and currently both pretty bad. Not reliable for emergency communications, but good enough for a hobbyist to play with.)
VHF/UHF do *not* work well in mountainous, densely forested regions, anyplace the
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The "open autopatches" thing makes me wonder a bit, too. I can't remember there ever being very many of those and, in my area at least, there's only one operating autopatch left out of a dozen or so. Cell phones pretty much killed them off.
Try the local ham radio club (Score:5, Insightful)
You might try to find a local ham radio club and ask what their experiences in the area are, and specifically where you're going to be hiking.
talk to your outfitter? (Score:2)
I would expect that outfitters in that area who providing hiking supplies and such may have some idea as to what your best options are. Surely you know a place or two local to your area with experienced hikers that you can consult? Just an idea, maybe you've tried that already.
Satellite phone (Score:3, Informative)
Don't do it! (Score:2, Informative)
Ham radio is a HOBBY for people interested in communicating by radio, and the technical development of same.
It is not a replacement for your cell phone. It is not a replacement for ship-to-shore-email services. It is not a replacement for wi-fi.
We are not the Police/Fire Reserve. We are not the DHS Auxiliary. We are not the NOAA Field Agents. We are not an emergency communications service.
(We -can- do this stuff as a matter of Last Resort, "When All Else Fails", but that is not our primary purpose! Many peo
Re:Don't do it! (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, actually, one of the primary reasons that the FCC originally and still allows amateur radio the really impressive set of bands and technologies that they are allowed is that they ARE there for emergency communications.
What do you think Field Day is all about?
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Field Day is about operating under minimal conditions. This can be useful in an emergency but that is not its SOLE or MAIN focus. It is not a training exercise for any branch of the military or law enforcement.
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Field Day is about operating under minimal conditions. This can be useful in an emergency but that is not its SOLE or MAIN focus. It is not a training exercise for any branch of the military or law enforcement.
It's also about getting amateur radio out there in front of the public in order to attract people to the hobby. There's a low-level disagreement in my ARC about whether we should continue to have our Field Day activities in the same remote mountain campground we've been using for the last few years or move them to somewhere more accessible to the general public just for that reason.
73 de KJ6BSO
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I can agree with that. We had a lot of visitors at our Field Day site. I was lucky enough to have an opening to Europe on PSK31 when a bunch of cub scouts came through. It took them awhile to wrap their heads around the idea of there being no internet or phone service involved. The number of people who understand the tech behind the devices they use daily is dangerously small.
I hope you get out of the hills and get good results; If you aren't showing your work, you're not working!
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I can agree with that. We had a lot of visitors at our Field Day site. I was lucky enough to have an opening to Europe on PSK31 when a bunch of cub scouts came through. It took them awhile to wrap their heads around the idea of there being no internet or phone service involved. The number of people who understand the tech behind the devices they use daily is dangerously small.
I hope you get out of the hills and get good results; If you aren't showing your work, you're not working!
I've pretty much stayed neutral on the topic (spending a weekend in the mountains is kind of nice, after all) but am beginning to lean in the direction of doing things more publicly. I think it's better for the hobby as a whole.
Changing the subject, the recent increase in sunspot activity is great, isn't it? Last night I worked a station in Buenos Aires on 40m PSK31. 40 watts, 6000 miles--that's the kind of thing that makes ham radio a kick in the ass.
Drop me a line, maybe we can set up a digital QSO. E-mai
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Shhh! How do you think I get the local emergency management to pay for my toys!
tribalhams.net
73 de w7com
I Disagree. (Score:2)
Ham radio is a HOBBY for people interested in communicating by radio, and the technical development of same.
Actually, the amateur bands are set aside for almost non-commercial, non-music, non-broadcast use whatsoever -- that's kind of the beauty of it...
Re:Don't do it! (Score:4, Interesting)
You really need to get off your high horse.
The guy has a license - so that means he passed the same test as you did. He thinks it might be a reasonable safety option - and he's trying to verify that opinion. If he winds up using it for an emergency, then he well within the basis and purpose of the service. If he doesn't use to do anything else but talk to some buddies while he's hiking - he STILL is within reasonable and normal usage.
So PLEASE drop out of lecture mode.
Re:Don't do it! (Score:4, Interesting)
How do you know he didn't - Cause if you knew my call - you wouldn't make that same assumption about me.
Happens that I had to pay to take the test(s) at the FCC in person (including code at 20wpm). So I DID likely take the same tests as you. Get over yourself.
Further - I've held certain positions within the amateur community that causes me to have practical experience with getting FCC to do something about violations of 97.113 (and have had those people sited.) He is WELL within the basis and purpose as currently stated.
Let the guy enjoy his hobby - as I would suggest you do too. (and try to not be such a license bigot) After all - the thing that binds all of us together within the hobby is the love of the radio art.
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Let's slow down here. I think you misunderstand what I am saying.
My picture of the situation is that the OP is NOT a licensed ham and is asking if he should get a license purely to use a ham radio as a more different cellphone.
He is not interested in ham radio at all, he merely wants to replace his existing insufficient cellphone service.
My point is supposed to be that ham radio is a diverse hobby and not a direct replacement for any one other service, and expecting it to work that way is going to lead to f
Ugh, God, there's one in every ARC (Score:5, Interesting)
"Don't do it." FUCK you, chief. Who are you to discourage a potential future Ham based on what YOU say the Amateur service is "for?" People become Hams for all sorts of reasons. The FCC specifies what we may NOT do on amateur bands, and gives reasons for establishing them in the first place, but EVERY use permissible is entirely valid and should be encouraged to further the hobby.
So this guy starts out with a backpack HF rig to make sure he has a way to get messages out of the wild, and then what? You should know how this goes if you've been in the hobby as long as you say you have. You start out with a specific purpose, and then one thing or another starts interesting you, and before you know it you're watching the waterfall for PSK31 on HF and trying to DX with Zimbabwe a couple months later.
I became a Ham BECAUSE of the service's emergency provisions. I watched a plane fly into the North Tower of the WTC and kill my cousin and her coworkers in Cantor-Fitzgerald, and then heard about ARES and RACES volunteers stitching Manhattan's emergency services together so they could communicate in the wake of having their repeaters turned to ash. I heard those stories and said "I want to be on that team. THAT'S how I'm going to contribute." So I got a license, and got elmered by some of the guys who volunteered on Wall Street, and eventually started learning about how huge the hobby is and how much you can do with it. I found out about MARS and Skywarn and EchoLink and IRLP, and all the incredible things you can do with just a little dual-band HT, and I was hooked. Now my friends and I talk on a number of the local repeaters in town (I've since moved) on a regular basis.
But according to you, I never should have started, because emergency services are not the "primary purpose" of the Amateur Service. Kill yourself. I can't stand curmudgeonly old fucks like you who think if you didn't start on CW on 10m you're somehow illegitimate. Get over yourself.
Re:Ugh, God, there's one in every ARC (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't say anything like that, and you're just projecting your hate for someone else on me. Did someone burn you at some point? Anyway, let me try to break it down for you.
This guy is not interested in "becoming a ham." You saw 9/11 happen and felt a need to contribute to the situation. You saw the other hams doing their thing and wanted to join them. So you did. However, this guy is different. He does not want to contribute like you did. This guy DOES NOT CARE about ham radio. All he wants is to replace his cellphone with something that "works better". Did you not read his post?
Anyway, so pretend he decides to go along with it. He gets a license and spends a few thousand getting a mobile rig, starts trying to make "phone calls" and all of a sudden he's got people listening to his "phone calls" and maybe some talk over the top of him and oh my gods what kind of stupidity is this? So he yells at these other people to go away, since this is his private conversation and they shouldn't be listening, which is of course missing the point to you or I who expects a radio to be a radio, but to him it's a big expensive cellphone that doesn't work the way he expects. So after a few months of this he gives up and sells the equipment and tells all of his friends (and their friends and so on...) that ham radio is an expensive waste of time full of jerks who listen to your phone calls. This is of course false and seems comically implausible to your or I, but he doesn't understand that!
This sort of scenario is not at all uncommon, and every time it happens it is the fault of the hams who refused to step in and provide guidance or worse, hams who misrepresented what the service really is - under the misguided idea that we are somehow obligated to grow our ranks at any cost. Not everyone is a "potential new ham". You have to evaluate THEIR wants and needs and expectations and give them enough information to properly decide for themselves whether or not they should continue.
All I am trying to say is that if you are expecting ham radio to directly replace some other service, and nothing more, you are going to waste everyone's time and a lot of your money. Ham radio is a hobby and not an appliance. I would rather you not have a license than have an expired license and a misguided hate of ham radio. I fail to understand how that makes me an "old curmudgeon" who should commit suicide. It does not help anyone for someone to have a license and no understanding of what that license means.
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97.1 Basis and purpose.-
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement a
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There's a comma there, not a period. They are clarifying the "voluntary noncommercial" part of item A.
Item A is not any more or less important than any of the other items.
If the ARS is redefined such that emergency communications becomes our primary or main focus, then the other items can AND WILL be eliminated as extraneous.
We must not fall into this trap!
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If Emergency Communications is the prime reason, then we *will* lose our bandwidth to those same entities whenever there isn't an emergency, for the same reasons.
Consider APRS messages.
"Hey FCC, AT&T/Verizon here, why are these hams competing with me by sending text messages on emergency frequencies? They are an emergency service, and there's not an emergency, so why are they allowed to do this?"
That's why we have to have five reasons, so as to not have all our eggs in one basket.
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No, of course not. That would be stupid. But that doesn't mean I should have to misrepresent everything I do as being under the auspices of emergency preparation.
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I understand that the government only cares about cheap emergency backups, but I disagree with that line of thinking.
There's a thin distinction between "primary purpose" and "sole purpose", and I don't think we should get there. We just make it easier for us to get screwed later when the need for the "primary purpose" can be discounted.
Besides, if the rules were structured the way you say they are, with our primary purpose being emergency communications, then the paragraph would have been structured with it
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... and in my opinion, it applies to the preceding public-service aspect only, otherwise they would have put it above the others in hierarchy.
We are going to run in a loop if this keeps up. I will probably stop here before this gets too much more convoluted.
Take that however you will.
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This is like saying that a bowl of fruit containing an apple is an apple because it has an apple in it.
Please read post #33016314 and its parents so we can avoid duplicating misunderstanding.
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Please kindly troll elsewhere.
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You aren't alone. There's a few kids here who are on the right track too. This guy is just trolling. Don't give him any attention.
HF/low power (Score:3, Informative)
Short answer is that it depends.
Are you going to learn morse code? It's not required for a license anymore, but a QRP (low power) rig on 40 meters can work hundreds or thousands of miles with a decent antenna if the atmosphere is right. QRP rigs can be extremely small and light, too.
Yaseu has the FT-817 all-mode all-band radio that comes in at about 1.2kg (just more than 2.5lbs) including the antenna and battery. It's about 5"x6"x2" as I recall, with about 5W max output. It definitely gives you options.
Re:HF/low power (Score:4, Interesting)
a QRP (low power) rig on 40 meters can work hundreds or thousands of miles
When I got my ham radio license, the instructor told the class a funny story.
There was this old guy out hiking, and the old guy carried a 40 meter Morse code radio. The guy hurt his leg and could not continue. Some hikers came along and offered help; the old guy told them "pitch my tent, help me inside, and throw this antenna wire up into the trees." That's all he wanted, and after they did that, they walked away (they never followed up with anyone).
So the old guy started tapping out his emergency report. One old ham operator, hundreds of miles away, was monitoring the 40 meter band and got the report. And in fact you had to be hundreds of miles away to get it; the report wasn't possible to pick up close by. So the ham operator in another state got on the phone to the Snohomish County Search and Rescue, to tell them what was going on.
Our instructor works for the Search and Rescue department, and he disbelieved the initial report. "Did you say the 40 meter band?!?" When S&R got to the park, they couldn't pick up the signal; they had to use cell phones to talk to the guy in another state to communicate with the guy who needed help.
So, the moral of the story is: if you want to whistle up help, maybe a 40 meter rig isn't the best way to go.
Personally, I'd carry a 406 MHz personal locator [equipped.com] beacon.
steveha
Oblig simpsons (Score:2)
Homer: Mmm... experienced Slashdot hams.
In a word... (Score:4, Informative)
...no.
There's no amateur radio transceiver that weighs in at less than a pound that would give you the kind of power or reliability you're looking for. Also, unless you're willing to put in the effort to obtain at least a general class amateur radio license, you'd pretty much be limited to the VHF/UHF segments of the amateur bands, which are not good in mountainous terrain unless you are certain you'd be in range of one or more repeaters during your trips. If you were willing to learn Morse code, you would have access to a small portion of the 40 meter band with an entry-level (technician) ticket but then you'd have to carry some sort of long wire antenna and be able to get it up into a couple of trees if you want a realistic hope of making any sort contact.
I'd say that either use a vehicle mounted amateur radio rig that can put out 100W or so--there are several neat little units available, but they don't come cheap, around $1000--or just enjoy the outdoors without worrying about communication. Hell, I packed into the Sierra Nevada for years without a cell phone (they hadn't even been invented at the time) or any other sort of link to the outside world. I liked it that way.
73,
de KJ6BSO sk
Why wait for a satellite telephone? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why wait for a satellite telephone? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I always carry an HT (Score:5, Informative)
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Hi, could you expand on your use of a 25W VHF amplifier? Is this a commercially available unit? And with what antenna do you use it?
Thanks.
-molo
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Icom V8 and a j-pole made out of twin lead.
http://www.qsl.net/wb3gck/jpole.htm [qsl.net]
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/v8/ [icomamerica.com]
Bring fishing line and a slingshot, get the antenna up in a tree.
Under $200USD and easy to pack.
X-Band Repeat (Score:4, Interesting)
If you move forward with this, one option is to setup your car as a repeater. You can park your car at the trailhead and turn on the repeater in your car. Then the idea is to hopefully hit your car from your handheld, then your car can hit a repeater. In addition to the additional radio in the car that supports Cross-Band repeating, you will need to add a battery or two to your car, and a fresh one in the trunk.
Like others have all pointed out, the handheld frequencies are all generally line of site. This could mean that in a real emergency, you may need to climb to the top of the nearest peak to actually have line of site to anyone. Then once on the top of the peak you may find that your cell phone works as well!
Amateur radios work great in the backcountry in communicating with your own party in a different campsite or at a base camp while you continue on up to a summit.
The SPOTs as you have already researched works pretty well. I especially like the non-911 "Help" button, which just sends a predefined message to someone. I think this is a great feature, as you may need someone you know to start hiking up to you to help you out, but may not need a full Search and Rescue.
Look to space (Score:2)
you need to talk to these people (Score:2)
re portable radio (Score:2, Informative)
It definitely depends on the situation... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll second the opinion about the Yaesu FT-817 as a great portable "DC to Daylight" rig that can run SSB and FM voice modes as well as CW (code) on most of the commonly used bands from HF to UHF. It's a little larger, but is extremely capable. The Icom IC703 is another portable rig. See one in use hiking in Colorado here [youtube.com].
I've been a ham for 53 years now and have run the kilowatt rigs with big beam antennas over 100 feet in the air, but I have the most challenging fun with a 4 watt CW rig and a wire or mobile antenna.
It Depends.... (Score:2)
Like a couple of other folks have said, it depends on several factors.
If you're thinking of a handheld with a rubber duck antenna, their wattage is typically 5 or below, and range on the rubber ducks suck. You can carry an additional compact antenna, but it only helps so much.
Line of sight to the other station (or repeater) is more or less required, and antenna height really helps on 2m for that reason. If you're in good shape and can get to a summit with LOS, great. If you're crippled up and can't "see"
sat phones and self reliance (Score:5, Informative)
Most importantly though, don't rely on technology to get you out of a jam. Avy beacons fail, GPSs die, radios don't reach people on the other end. They are all wonderful, life saving tools but odds are you won't need any of that stuff. Read the Wilderness First Responder medical book, read Freedom of the Hills, etc. Go prepared. A vast majority of the time, you'll be able to get yourself and other people help without 'calling' anyone.
No, ham radio won't work for you (Score:5, Informative)
As I understand, you need the radio for a purely utilitarian purpose - to talk to specific people. You are not a ham yourself (not yet, at least) and likely the people you want to talk to are not hams either (otherwise you'd ask them, not Slashdot.) This means none of you can legally (or effectively) use ham radio. This can be corrected; ham license exams are not complicated, I took three on the same day, from no license to extra, but I have radio background and I'm not new to ham radio (I was first licensed around 1980, I think.) A man from the street will have lots of problems with higher level exams unless he understands things like the theory of linear circuits, complex impedance, and such.
You certainly can go ahead and get a ham radio license for yourself, if that is interesting to you in any way (there is more than one way to enjoy ham radio.) But you probably can't tell your friends, parents, or whoever is on the other end, to go and get a license - that's probably beyond most people's abilities, just like it is for me to learn classical dance :-) People are all different.
However if you only want communication then getting a ham radio and license doesn't make much sense. If I want to fly from SF to Paris I don't want to study for a pilot license; I buy a ticket, and a professional pilot will do all the flying for me. It is cheaper, simpler, safer, and lets me do things that I want to do - not what I have to do.
Technically, ham radio in emergency is the absolute best way to make a contact with another ham. Even satellites are not as reliable. Ham radio depends primarily on equipment that you (and the other guy) have. No need for expensive satellites that may or may not be in the sky or otherwise operational. There are many ham bands, and you can always find a band that works at the time of need. HF bands will work for short range communication pretty much at any time (using the ground wave.) In mountains NVIS makes sense. V/UHF is not likely to work there because distances are large, terrain - rough, and repeaters would be scarce. To be well prepared for an emergency you need to have an HF rig, and if you can do CW (at any speed) it's even better.
An experienced ham would probably take a small transceiver with him into mountains; either HF or HF+VHF. He wouldn't need much of an antenna - any long wire would do fine at his elevation. In good conditions he'd be able to communicate with the whole USA with mere 5W; in bad conditions he'd be able to contact a local ham to report an emergency (and he'd have his GPS coordinates.)
A new ham most likely won't be able to fully utilize the spectrum that he has access to (depends on his license.) He'd bring a UHF HT with him, and he wouldn't be able to hear anything. Also repeaters are tricky sometimes, they require PL tones and you need to know them in advance to elicit a response from a silent repeater. So you must come prepared.
In your situation it would be safer for you if you rely upon commercial methods of communication. They are better supported and they require hardly any experience. If you need the radio only to report an emergency then you can get a beacon for that. If you want to talk to your friends from the top of a mountain then you need a satellite phone (and lots of money to pay for it.)
You are asking the wrong question (Score:5, Insightful)
They fail because of the lack of coverage, the charge in the battery or the fact that no one else will be able to figure it out (if you are the one hurt).
Some simple precautions go a long way: the buddy system, first aid kit, topo map and compass, planning your route, extra food and water, notify friends of your departure and return. These do not cost as much and will do a lot more.
I used to carry a 2 meter rig when I went backpacking with the scouts. I found there was no coverage - except near cities.
The back country is a great place. But, it is terribly unforgiving for any lack of preparedness.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
More to the point, if you are generally unprepared for whatever you're doing, and call for a rescue, your rescuers will hate you. My sister worked for several years as an EMT in an area that's popular with outdoor adventurers of all stripes, and they never begrudged someone who was well-prepared but ended up with a broken leg due to bad luck, but absolutely loathed people who had no clue what they were doing and ended up causing a risky search-and-rescue because of their own stupidity.
HF QRP (Score:2)
QRP classics published by the ARRL is probably the reference work.
The book "the electronics of radio" by Rutledge; Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-64645-6 makes understanding and building such a HF radio easy(r).
Other useful works would be the ARRL antenna handbook, and the ARRL radio amateur handbook. Of course packing a mirror, whistle and survival kit are also recommended. Hope this helps
HF / CW (Score:4, Interesting)
FWIW I live in Colorado.
Most responders seem to assume some sort of VHF but, as a few people point out, that's not really a great idea because there are big gaps in repeater coverage in the mountains.
However, 5W (or less) on HF CW would be ample for emergency communications, and you wouldn't have to worry about whether there's a repeater nearby. There are lots of designs for lightweight QRP (i.e., low power) single-frequency (or limited-frequency) rigs that would be suitable. I'd probably go for one that transmitted on 40m, just because there's more CW activity there, so you're more likely to be heard quickly than on, say, 80m.
I don't hike in the mountains, but if I did I would definitely carry such a rig with me. It only needs to save your life once.
Can't hurt? (Score:2)
Do it. I can hit a repeater that's 40 miles away using a 5 watt handheld in my house. Mountain to mountain, I've done 150 miles (Cadillac to Washington). It's not fool-proof, and you'll have to know a lot more than you would with a cell phone. Map the local repeaters, know the tones...
That said, for the cost, a spectacular tool. I've used mine to start a search & rescue for friends of mine who were lost in a place with no phone service. I bring my VX-8r whenever I go backpacking.
KB1PNB
Hack a cell phone to have more power (Score:2)
NVIS, HF, repeaters, etc. (Score:3, Informative)
I find it distressing that so many posters here have talked about VHF/UHF only, and in relation to repeaters. There's more to ham radio than that, there's more to portable ham radio than that. The satellite option was at least interesting. The antennas don't have to be large (look up arrow antenna), the problem is calculating where the satellite will be and when, and then getting through the massive amounts of traffic on said satellite.
Repeaters are great, but they only work when you're in range. If you're going to be in the rockies, there will be a lot of times when mountains will block reception. When on hilltops, you may get TOO MUCH reception, from far away, that makes it difficult to use the one repeater you're trying to.
If you buy a more expensive HF rig, you can get communication even from down in a ditch. Usually, HF communication uses large antennas and the curvature of the earth makes the signal bounce off a layer of the ionosphere far away, and because of the angle, land even farther than that, sometimes bouncing off the earth back to the atmosphere, etc. But the problem with this is it tends to be unpredictable. There are predictions that can be made, but they're only general. A bigger problem, for the backpacker, is that these signals are almost always far away. the NVIS method, "Near Vertical Incidence Skyway", involved signals that go nearly straight up to the ionosphere, and then almost straight back down again. The result is hopping over mountains and fairly predictable communication with low interference. An advantage is that the antenna doesn't have to be high off the ground, in fact it's REQUIRED to be close to the ground...but stretch out horizontablly, not vertical like a walkie-talkie antenna. As the antennas tend to be larger for the HF band, you'd have to make camp and set up your hunk of wire a few feet above the ground before getting on the air. There are other issues with NVIS, the only one of importance being that the frequency which you tune to, in order to facilitate communications, varies throughout that day. But it does so in a predicatable manner.
If you get the Yaesu FT-817, you get a small radio that's just a little bigger than a walkie-talkie, that covers both HF bands, VHF, and UHF...so you can use repeaters or NVIS as available. The battery and charger than come with the FT-817 are crappy, go for the aftermarket W4RT produced models. There's an aftermarket antenna called "Miracle Whip", that is much better than the antenna included with the unit, is small and easy to use. You might also want to buy a portable solar panel. The ones made by Brunton are nice. Get the 12 Watt version, the six watt one isn't enough to charge your radio quickly.
Last piece of advice: don't just wait until you're out in the field to get familiar with the equipment. Get practice using it, with all its accessories in various configurations, BEFORE you go camping. It will be well worth the practice.
FT-817, W4RT battery, charger, Miracle Whip, solar panel -- package can be acquired for under $1000 (much less, in my case).
amateur radio rescue call. (Score:3, Funny)
My only reason for having a ham license is to communicate with my club members as outlined above. I don't involve myself with the greater 'ham' community other than to pay my membership dues in the local repeater society to help support the ongoing maintenance of the repeater network. In listening to some of these guys talk while on my way to work, I envision a rescue call going something like so:
- K2BRK Mayday Mayday Mayday. Anyone listening
+ K2BRK K2HLP what is the nature of your emergency
- I've injured my back and I'm trapped under a log in the Shwitzer valley. I need help.
+ Wow. The Shwitzer valley is a long way away. What rig are you using?
- A yaesu vx-3r and a yoyodyne G8 SMC antenna. Please send help.
+ Oh, I have one of those antennas. It's a good unit. I paid $38 from YingCo on eBay. Thank you for the contact K2BRK. K2HLP clear.
Just kidding. I suspect most basement Ham radio geeks are literally waiting for the day where they can assist in some sort of emergency situation.
Satellite phone ... (Score:3, Informative)
Rent one when you're going out. Return it to the vendor when you get back. ;reception is appropriate ; available for rental without too much difficulty.
Weight is appropriate (I met an RAF mountain rescue team trialling an early one about 15 years ago ; eminently packable, though hardly light weight) ; dimensions are appropriate
Cost is the biggest reason for not owning one. Which is why there is a reasonable market for them for rent. Do roadworks in the middle of nowhere (cellphone-reception-wise, that can be almost anywhere) and it very quickly gets to be a justifiable business expense.
But frankly, I'd look at the human factors first. If you're on your own, what are you doing that you can't face the thought of crawling on a broken knee for a few days to get back to "civilisation" ? ; if you're in a group, why don't you have confidence in the ability of your group to get assistance and get you off? ; if you're leading a party, why don't you have confidence in yourself to get your party to safety while managing casualties. If you've not addressed those human factors, then you can be guaranteed that your technological fix will short a circuit (or have a flat battery) at precisely the wrong moment.
Murphy's Law : if it can go wrong, it will.
Extended Murphy's Law : if it can go wrong, it will go wrong, in the most inconvenient possible way, at the most inconvenient possible time.
Murphy was an optimist.
Re: (Score:2)
Back in the late 90s, I was working in the back country, the radio we used was about the size of a late 80s cell phone and it had plenty of power to g
Re: (Score:2)
Those big backpack radios they used in Vietnam were usually leftovers from WWII.
bzzzt. Thank you for playing.
http://www.tourofdutyinfo.com/ToDAdvisorwebpages/fieldradio2.html [tourofdutyinfo.com]
Re: (Score:2)
The batteries were unnecessarily gigantic though; we have much better Li batteries today.
Re: (Score:2)
How was it unnecessary? Should they have just waited around for 40 years for new battery technology?
Re:Nope (Score:5, Funny)
So what he needs is a 27MHz Citizen's Band radio? Besides rednecks and freaks, who still uses CB?
Truck drivers. Oh, wait...
(Disclaimer: I am a truck driver, so I'm allowed to make that joke without being modded troll/flamebait.)
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
When building our local EmComm van I specked in a CB. The rest of the hams thought I was crazy. I said, "Who do you think will be delivering supplies, maybe a trucker?" They then thought it was a wonderful idea.
The goal isn't to insure that all communications are by ham radio, the goal is to communicate.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Interesting)
So glad to see some people thinking about that. I hate how often the ham community shuns CB and the mere mention of it. Yes, it certainly has it's own problems, but nearly EVERY truck and a good amount of touring motorcycles are equipped with CB. Considering how many charity bike rides that ARS covers that make use of motorcycles, this also seems overlooked. I've never thought of it from the delivery, but I'll certainly keep that in mind in the future.
I'm with you (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got a ham station [flickr.com], and it includes an AM/LSB/USB base CB radio (top center in that image) and associated dedicated antenna. If the goal is being able to communicate in an emergency (and that is one of my goals as a ham), ignoring one of the most widespread tools out there is not the best idea.
It's also not fair to just say "rednecks and freaks"; there are a lot of folks in this area, ranchers and so forth, not "rednecks" by any definition other than perhaps suntan, who use CB as a practical (and free) means to keep in touch. I know some that are a good deal more sophisticated in both outlook and education than some of the characters I've run into here on slashdot.
For that matter, ham radio is no exclusive preserve of reason, manners, and intelligence, either. So let's keep the "redneck" comments down to a dull roar, shall we?
Re:I'm with you (Score:5, Interesting)
"It's also not fair to just say "rednecks and freaks".
It's past unfair and well into "stupid". Those of us who drive long distance often use CB to keep track of road conditions. Just lurking is usually enough. The CB craze is mostly over, (praise be to Allah!) so there are fewer dumbfucks polluting the airwaves.
Hear, hear (Score:2)
I go away for a couple of weeks every year where there is no cell coverage, and I just get an Iridium "pay as you go" card. Coverage anywhere you can see the sky, including low earth orbit.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
[citation needed]
No citation needed because what the GP claims (HF DF done by criminals) is impossible and unbelievable. HF DF requires huge installations [wikimapia.org] ("elephant cages") and this technology is not available to many nations, let alone vagrants. VHF DF is theoretically doable with a man-portable equipment, but in practical terms it isn't. Besides, any DF in mountains will result in tons of multipath, so you need to be in an airplane if you want to perform DF with any hope for accuracy.
It is true that
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In fact, "fox hunting" is a popular activity among amateur radio operators.
Not in the mountains :-) You need to listen on repeater's input, and the terrain most likely doesn't give you the line of sight. On top of that, the criminal doesn't know the frequency, and doesn't know timing of transmissions (those are given to fox hunters.)
Basically geolocation with a single, not moving station is not possible; you only get a bearing to the strongest direction of arrival. To triangulate without moving you nee
Re: (Score:2)
I think you've a fundamental misunderstanding of the point, here. It's to communicate in case of an emergency, not to be reminded to pick up the milk on the way home.
Weenies. (Score:3, Funny)
I have them chop off three of my limbs, have a Bothrops asper [wikipedia.org] bite me on the remaining one a couple of times, encase me in several feet of ice, and drop me in a deep, 33f mountain lake attached to a 40-ton anchor on a short chain.
You kids just don't know the meaning of challenge anymore. You probably still wear shoes in your own house. Weenies.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a bit harsh. I'd say he's being responsible, wanting to ensure communications in case of an emergency. Better than sliding down a hill due to some loose rocks, spraining your ankle, and then discovering that "oh fuck, I can't talk to anyone."
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
(2) Remember that some personal locator beacons can be used to send a simple non-emergency message to a pre-defined email address. Usually "OK" and your lat/long coordinates. Would this solve your problem? Personal locator beacons are the greatest