Best Education Path To Learn Video Game Programming? 240
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Soulskill
from the try-the-duke-nukem-technical-institute dept.
from the try-the-duke-nukem-technical-institute dept.
Proudrooster writes "Fellow Slashdotters, I have transitioned to teaching and my students have asked me what is the best path to take to work in the video game programming industry. Which would be of more benefit: pursing a Computer Science degree or taking an accelerated program like those at FullSail? I have a CS degree, and suspect that the CS degree would be of more benefit in the long run, but I would like anyone in the industry to share their wisdom and experience with my students trying to follow in your footsteps. If you could recommend some programs in your replies it would be appreciated."
A couple other questions that might help those students: what non-academic methods would you recommend to students looking for a career in the games industry? What projects and tools are good starting points for learning the ropes?
Oh boy (Score:5, Informative)
DigiPen (Score:2, Informative)
Bad idea (Score:4, Informative)
A huge amount of kids go into college for a CS degree planning to make games when they graduate. At some point in their education they realize it's a shitty industry to be in and hopefully they're good enough at CS in general to get some other sort of CS job. Sending them into some sort of specialized game programming program is a horrible idea because when reality sets in they won't have somewhere else to go.
Besides, the only way to stand out is to actually do modding and stuff in your free time. The ones who are dedicated enough will do this regardless of what major or college they end up in.
Re:The first thing you need... (Score:5, Informative)
Depends what area they want to work as. If its the code monkeys then its a strict diet of c++, trigonometry, matrices and physics.
For a modeller they need to be making an awful lot of organic models, both low and high poly counts if they want to impress any companies. Blender is a great free tool to get them started on this and the alternatives such as Autodesk 3d max are generally only reachable by pirates, the rich and the corporates. Remind them that for a port folio to put their very most impressive work on the first frame or page because that's often all that is looked at.
For audio engineers get them coding in synths in c++ and editing / recording wavefiles and encourage them to learn a good lump of sound engineering as well, there are many books on the subject. Remind audio engineers that vacancies in this field are few and far between and sadly the jobs often go to some managements totally unqualified mate because he was once in a band and they smoked hash together in college.
Most importantly get them learning these skills by making mods or their own games which is essential if they want to have any decent work to wave under the nose of an employer or have a basic idea how to start up a company for themselves.
Re:The first thing you need... (Score:5, Informative)
Blender is a great free tool to get them started on this and the alternatives such as Autodesk 3d max are generally only reachable by pirates, the rich and the corporates.
Uh, no, guide them into using the software they'll be expected to use at the studio they wish to work at. Virtually all of them offer student pricing. Some places will let you in if you model in a different app (I've had it happen myself), but it's a much steeper uphill battle. You pretty much have to have made a name for yourself before anybody'll extend you the credit you'd need make up for the lack of experience with the package. The money you'll lose by having to accept lower pay or by going through un-paid training will easily exceed the ~$400 you'd spend.
I don't disagree with your whole post, just this one comment. :)
Remind them that for a port folio to put their very most impressive work on the first frame or page because that's often all that is looked at.
This is so spot on I wanted to make sure it was mentioned a second time. I also wanted to add one little bit: Don't show crap work to make your reel seem longer. Nobody's looking at the length of your reel to get a feel for how long you've been working. They are, however, looking for potential ... areas of improvement... you might have, and that will affect your value. You're being graded not just on what you show, but what you choose to show. The reason for that is you have the same interaction with your clients. I've worked with guys who have set directors into orbit because they showed something far too early to be seen. (Actually I'm guilty of it myself, it's sooooo tempting to prove you've started on something but they often don't understand the concept of 'filling in the canvas'...)
Re:The first thing you need... (Score:4, Informative)
I clicked through to a random Bioware position [ea.com] and they were asking for
as well as a variety of random experience and specific programming knowledge.
So it's a little of column A and a little of column B really - portfolio and degree combined.
Re:The first thing you need... (Score:5, Informative)
Disagree. Worked several game jobs and have many friends in the industry. Pay for programmers is fairly high. But you'll be working ~100 hour weeks for it. So on an hourly basis (and more generally, life-commitment), it's fairly low compensation.
Re:Oh boy (Score:5, Informative)
> One person can't design an original game, it just isn't humanly possible.
Uh, did you miss the WHOLE gaming scene in the '70s and '80s? i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Mechner [wikipedia.org] of Karateka fame.
Having shipped multiple professional game titles on various consoles/PC, worked with some very talented designers, and met Jenova Chen, I *strongly* disagree.
Rare, yes, impossible, no. (Granted it is becoming harder, but indies keep showing the "the biz" just what is "possible", aka "World of Goo.")
--
Educate comes from Latin 'educere' -- meaning to draw out, not "fill up with useless facts"
- Michaelangel007, 2005
Probably a misconception (Score:5, Informative)
After talking to people who worked for different german game studios, my picture changed quickly. I found out that what most studios needed were programmers, programmers and programmers. And those kind of programmers who would sit around for 80+ hours per week and hack C code. Not really my understanding of "fun". Sure, there are other guys like the graphic and animation dudes, sound and music, asset management but in non of these would fit my CS background.
So I learned that what I initially was looking for, was becoming the lead game designer. Nothing you could expect to become with no hisotry in creating games plus at least 7 years of experience in the industry. And even if I magically would become a LGD, even he doesn't have all the creative freedoms I had image he would have. One guy told me, that a game they developed was starting out to be something like a sci-fi RPG, but one day they got a call from the publisher who told them, that "with all the LotR stuff going on, we should do something with hobbits and evles".
This might be different in the US, but in Germany you seem to be pretty much the slave of the publisher and and are bound to every shitty idea they come up with that would make the game better selling
So my bottom line is: if you love to code and already are a good programmer, go for it. If you want to "design" cool games you might be dissapointed how uncreative the whole process is.
Clearly this is just my personal subjective view, but I'm pretty sure many of the people who "want to become a game designer" have similar faulty expactations.
I hire games programmers. (Score:3, Informative)
I've been interviewing and hiring programmers for games companies for the last decade. I look for:
Programming skill, with C++ being the most relevant language (but obvious excellence in other languages is also hugely useful). Demos, contributions to open source, university projects, youtube videos of the results of your work are all good showcases. Having a website with linked examples (executable and source to look at) makes evaluating skill much easier while sifting CVs. We have hired folks recently with no C++ experience, but they had very strong demonstrable C# or Python experience.
Team fit - must be smart, get things done, friendly. People who are passionate about what they do, willing to work on whatever is most important to the team at the time (rather than "I only want to work on shaders", for example) and desperate to learn. I really, really want to hire people who want to do good work. I'm much less likely to hire people if they are not all three of the aforementioned criteria.
Education is a really simple bar for us to use these days, as many people do meet the above criteria. We normally expect at least a bachelor's first in a science. I've hired a few postdocs recently, they're all great guys. If you haven't got good math/physics results at A-level, I'm very unlikely to interview.
We obviously don't expect people to hit every point, but we are lucky enough to be pretty choosy.