The Tablet Debate: 3G Or Wi-Fi? 395
Barence writes "We regularly review tablets and mention the fact that X tablet has Wi-Fi, Y tablet has 3G, but how many people are interested in each? Do most people view 3G as a must-have extra, or is Wi-Fi plenty for a device most commonly used in the home? We asked our readers for their opinions and the responses were fairly evenly split between those on both sides, with a healthy proportion also saying they may not choose it but like to have 3G as an option. What do Slashdotters think? Is 3G a must-have for tablets or will a tethered smartphone do the job?"
Too pricey. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Too pricey. (Score:5, Insightful)
This. If I lived in Europe, I'd want 3G. - In North America, fuck it. The price is just not justifiable.
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This. If I lived in Europe, I'd want 3G. - In North America, fuck it. The price is just not justifiable.
Even in Europe the price is not justifiable. I'm already paying for 3g on my phone and it tethers without a hiccup, why would I let them double bill me?
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I meant for phone too. It's too expensive here, full stop. I don't think I will ever have a data plan here unless things change drastically.
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Virgin mobile has a plan that is $25 for 300 talk minutes and unlimited text/data. Their phone choices aren't that great, but there ARE options available in the US with very reasonable data plans.
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While technically you may be able to put the sim from your phone in your tablet, it's not exactly a practical solution. First of all, it's a hassle, and most phones I've worked with so far do not allow the sim to be taken out very easily. How easy it is to install in a tablet I don't know. But they're not designed like e.g. USB plugs to be connected and removed easily and frequently. Then, you lose phone connectivity while you want to use your tablet, which is also not nice.
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$35 for 5 GB here in Canada, but I find 250 MB is enough. That gives me connectivity without a lot of expense. The only time I ever upgrade to the bigger data package is if I know I'll be attending some sporting events. I sometimes stream the TV broadcast onto my iPad so I can see replays, hear the commentary, etc. (The people who sit around me love it.) But I've had my iPad since August, and in only one month have I needed the bigger package.
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I use 3G on my ipad all the time and you'd be surprised how little you actually use. I bought one last July, use it at work, home and on transport and almost always use 3G (I live 5km from CBD and can't get adsl at home
On the bus (Score:2)
I'd be glad to only be able to get internet access when I'm at home or when I'm near another network; at home, at school, at my local coffee shop, or pretty much anywhere else I spend any significant amount of time.
Would you want Internet access on the bus while commuting to and from work/school/coffee shop? Or when in some other shop that has only locked, employees-only Wi-Fi, such as a local mall?
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Yes. That is why I pay big $ for a smart phone. Problem solved. If I DID have my Xoom with me, which is unlikely anyway, then I could tether.
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MyWi on Jailbroken iPhone allows bluetooth, cable and WiFi tethering on demand from an iPad using your current phone data plan:
http://intelliborn.com/mywi.html [intelliborn.com]
it's a pretty sweet program, been using it to turn my iPhone in to a WiFi hotspot for my laptop for ages.
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Seconded. So awesome. I use my iPad off of my iPhone's 3G connection. I got the WiFi iPad and was never more aware of all the places that don't have WiFi. Plus, my iPad hates the my school's wireless VPN setup. It can take me up to 5 minutes to convince the tablet to talk to the VPN server. MyWi is a single tap and I'm online. Of course, AT&T's new persecution, I mean, new policy on jailbreak tethering has me on edge. No warning emails yet. Yet.
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Some [windmobile.ca] carriers [mobilicity.ca] in Canada aren't as asinine about unlimited data, but they still charge way more than a similar plan in Europe or Asia would be.
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The nice(ish) thing about iPads vs iPhones or even most Android phones is that even if you purchase the model with the celluar modem, the data plan is optional, and can be turned on or off as needed (at least on a monthly basis). Going on a trip this month? Call AT&T and turn on the data plan. Spending next month at home with a virtual fire (and wifi)? Call them and turn it off. It's still overpriced, especially since I'm already paying for a data plan on my damned phone, but at least it's somewhat
Neither, instead go with ... (Score:4, Informative)
They should not be separate devices (Score:5, Interesting)
My laptop, my phone, and my tablet should all just be viewports and ways of interacting with one homogenous device. They should all be integrated parts of a whole.
To that end, I do not care which thing has which feature. I just care that I can seamlessly access the Internet no matter where I am.
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> To that end, I do not care which thing has which feature.
> I just care that I can seamlessly access the Internet no matter where I am.
Good luck with that.
Truth is that you will have better luck at some 3rd world tourist trap than outer suburbia.
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My laptop, my phone, and my tablet should all just be viewports and ways of interacting with one homogenous device. They should all be integrated parts of a whole.
BlackBerry's PlayBook displays your mail & contacts from your BlackBerry phone. In fact it's the only way to get email or contacts on your PlayBook so far. Their approach is interesting but very limited at the moment.
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...
So the iPad, iPhone and iTunes sync your contacts, notes, mail, songs, videos, and photos between all 3 if you don't mind syncing manually, of course they'll all 3 sync over the air with several services to stay insync without plugin type syncs.
not exactly sure whats supposed to be impressive about what BlackBerry offers, could you maybe tell me how its supposed to be impressive?
BlackBerry ceased to matter the instant the iPhone came out, even though the iOS groups is targeted at personal users and BB at
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I don't know the model number or who makes it unfortunately. It's all rather obscured by the fact that it's from the dim and hazy possible future. *sigh*
I still think it's worth stating what the eventual goal is. Makes it easier to figure out how to get there.
Re:They should not be separate devices (Score:4, Funny)
I tried one of those once. My money kept falling out.
tethered via adhoc wifi will do the job (Score:3)
That could become annoying.
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True as long as you have 3G GSM (WCDMA). 2G/2.5G GSM (i.e. GPRS or EDGE) pauses the data connection to let the call go through.
Re:tethered via adhoc wifi will do the job (Score:5, Interesting)
GSM OTOH uses time-domain multiplexing (basically the phones take turns talking to the tower). That's ok for voice, but horribly wasteful of bandwidth for data. Consequently, GSM providers had to develop an entirely new system and protocol for data, which is why it took them 1-2 years to catch up to CDMA's 3G data. When they finally did roll it out, it needed an entirely separate radio (you had to upgrade phones), which added to the complexity, cost, and power consumption of the phone. But a second radio carries with it the advantage of doing voice and data simultaneously. In terms of use, there are very few times when you actually need to use them simultaneously. The CDMA carriers didn't package a second dedicated 3G data radio in their phones simply because there wasn't enough demand for it. It only became an issue when Verizon and AT&T got into an advertising war.
Fast forward to today. The 4G on CDMA carriers uses a different technology for data and, just like GSM phones, a different radio than that used for voice. If your CDMA phone has a 4G connection, it can do simultaneous voice and data just fine. It has nothing to do with CDMA or GSM, everything to do with how many radios are on your phone. (The same is why phones can do simultaneous voice and WiFi. 802.11b/g/n uses yet another different radio.)
Re:tethered via adhoc wifi will do the job (Score:4, Interesting)
It's amusing how a CDMA superiority has become spun as a GSM advantage
What is quite a lot more amusing is to watch someone claim a feature that is significantly less useful for the user is in any way a mark of "superiority". Just because it has a nicer technical design does not make it superior if the end result to the user is inferior.
That's the thing that technical minded people on Slashdot continue to find elusive, this notion that technology exists to serve people and not the other way round.
Also on Slashdot: (Score:5, Insightful)
Is a $200 graphics card a must-have?
Are hiking boots a must-have?
Is a baby stroller a must-have?
Is 4WD a must-have?
The answers to these questions and many more: It depends, you idiot!
Hell's Nerdy Angels (Score:2)
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Only if you're an Apple fanboy. Don't go around calling people you don't agree with or even know idiots. It's so Applish.
This again? You guys need to learn how to spot an Apple fanboy. If he had spelled it "iDiot" then he's a fanboy. Spelling it as regular old "idiot" means he's just another unhappy customer of the intertubes.
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What? he's correct, and it's idiocy to post an open ended question like that in an open forum.
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4WD is not a must have ANYWHERE except off road.
Spoken like someone who lives somewhere snowless. My sedan gets around just fine as long as it doesn't get too deep, but I have friends who live just outside of town on unplowed roads. For them, a 4WD is the difference between being snowed in for a week and being able to get groceries.
Until we get Personal Area Networks... (Score:3)
Until we get Personal Area Networks properly working (a la Shadowrun 4, where your phone is just a voice interface to the same uplink node that everything else you have is also using), I would go with tethering. It just makes more sense to me, instead of having to have two separate contracts for 3G connectivity... and isn't that one of the entire points behind Bluetooth anyways?
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and isn't that one of the entire points behind Bluetooth anyways?
Its also one of the points behind WIFI.
Almost any Android Smartphone phone can do WIFI tethering these days. And a Wifi Stack can handle WPA2 encryption, where as most bluetooth stacks provide you with no clear idea of how secure the connection is.
Can't use the tablet where there is only 3g (Score:3)
Can't use the tablet while driving, have wifi in the coffee shop while on a driving break.
Can't use the tablet with G3 on the plane, when lucky the in-air wifi is working.
Have wifi in the airport terminal.
Have wifi at home.
Have wifi at work.
That is about where I would have the need for a tablet, so wifi will do, thank you I will keep the $50/month in pocket.
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It amazes me that you consider your tablet useless when not connected to a network. Surely that must be an Apple product and not an Android?
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It amazes me that you got "my tablet is useless when not connected to a network" out of that post.
He simply expressed that wherever he might potentially have an actual use for 3G, he already has Wifi available. You know, comparing the usefulness of 3G vs Wifi. It's only the subject of the fucking article.
But hey, don't let basic reading comprehension stand in the way of your tired Apple bashing.
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I disagree on one point. The 3G versions (at least of the iPad) come with GPS built in--I assume that it's because of OEM chips
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Apple iPad users are too busy polishing their nails while driving.
You forgot public transit (Score:3)
Can't use the tablet while driving
Can use the tablet while on a bus.
Have wifi in the airport terminal.
At how much extra per month?
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Can catch cold and flu from idiots on the bus.
Can get head ache from idiots being loud on the bus
Bus's a great for general low income or tourist public transportation. They suck for anything else.
The last couple of times I was at the airport, the wi-fi was open. So it cost nothing.
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The buses around here (developing world country in South East Asia) have Wifi.
At how much extra per month? Airport Wifi is free in most of the airports I've visited the past few years. International 3G roaming on the other hand requires access to the same level of funds that would cover RIAAs claims against Limewire.
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Can't use the tablet while driving, have wifi in the coffee shop while on a driving break.
Can't use the tablet with G3 on the plane, when lucky the in-air wifi is working.
Have wifi in the airport terminal.
Have wifi at home.
Have wifi at work.
That is about where I would have the need for a tablet, so wifi will do, thank you I will keep the $50/month in pocket.
You sound single. Besides some tablets [apple.com] offer paygo data options... once you use an iPad 3G for mapping while your spouse/SO is driving, you'll never look back.
$50/mo is steep...
but $15 or $20/mo for on-demand months where I travel (probably 3-6 mo / yr) is very doable.
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Can't use the tablet while driving, have wifi in the coffee shop while on a driving break.
Can't use the tablet with G3 on the plane, when lucky the in-air wifi is working.
Which it won't be unless you pay $$$$ to fly first class.
Have wifi in the airport terminal.
Yes, you spend half your time there signing up for the privilege of paying outrageous charges for the few minutes you have left to use the service. Maybe you get smart and signup for one of those "universal" wifi services. At your next layover you find that the universal wifi service from the first airport doesn't work here.
Go to the conference and find out that Wifi, if you can get a strong enough signal to use it, comes with the same hefty charges
The problem (Score:2)
If carriers offered a $5 "extra" you could tack onto your phone plan for a tablet, ok, then *maybe*. But anything more than that and it's too much. And while I imagine there are going to be people who regularly use their tablets in places where there is no wifi, I don't
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It's way better than paying an extra $20/mo commitment for tethering when maybe you'll only need it for the two weeks you're on that bike trip and staying at c
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You know, don't you, that Apple negotiated some pretty slick pay-as-you-go plans with Verizon and ATT for their 3G iPads. I think with ATT, for example, it's $15.00 for 250MB in a 30-day period. Not super-awesome on a per-MB cost [...]
In fact, it's even worse if you use less than 250MB in a 30-day period because you still have to pay the $15 and, 30 days later, you have to pay again.
I suppose we must have different definitions of "slick."
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Amazon manages to have free 3g built into the kindle. I would imagine Apple could do the same.
The cost of free (Score:3)
Amazon manages to have free 3g built into the kindle. I would imagine Apple could do the same.
Amazon also has absurdly low data rates that apps written for the Kindle must abide by - 100kb of wireless data PER MONTH. Thats unless you have an app with a monthly fee, then the cap is somewhat higher I believe.
Would you really rather have a platform that forces such limited use of networking resources?
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I think it would be awesome if you could somehow bundle your home internet data plan with nominated phones and tablet devices. In our house we have DSL, 2 smart phones and I have an iPad 3G on order. That will be 4 internet data plans for 2 people.
The data plan for the iPad is actually quite reasonable with a 12 month pre-paid subscription through Telstra and about the same as one month's phone bill.
Who knows, by the time the first pre-paid account runs out, maybe they will have wrapped their heads around t
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Note: my parents live in the country. My iPhone is with Optus, and if I'd known then what I know now about how shitty their coverage is I probably would have gone Telstra from day one for the phone. My parents only have dial up. The logic behind getting 3G for the tablet is that I can get internet when visiting them with better speeds than dial up for the most part without my mother worrying about using up her monthly quota.
Cost (Score:2)
Unless you're a millionaire, internet over 3G is way too expensive. You can get by without WiFi only if you do nothing more intensive than checking your mail.
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> Unless you're a millionaire, internet over 3G is way too expensive.
Not quite. You forgot probably the most important group: Those spending OPM. And those in NY or CA where normal economics don't apply.
But yea, any person spending $50/mo of their own money for 3G on a tablet needs their head examined. Good grief people, just how attached to the damned Internet do you have to be, DSL or cable modem at home, $50-$100/mo/person in the household for smartphone(s) and now tablets?
If the cell companies won
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My dad has a 3G iPad and pays his $25/mo for 2GB. He has no other internet access. It's a pretty good deal for him given his usage patterns.
WiFi only... use a 4G Hotspot (Score:2)
WiFi only, have no need for a bunch of 3G data plans.. Use a 4G Hotspot for all my toys... Verizon CDMA no voice call dropouts because the Hotspot is not a phone. Want to connect 1 device, 3 up to 5 (never needed to do that yet). Up to 16Mbps down using LTE... but do have to watch the quota. Use my phone way too much for voice when I need data for tethering it. Have even teathred my phone to it to get 4G instead of just the EVDO 3G the phone has. Rare occurrence.
3G connectivity equals provider lock-in (Score:5, Insightful)
Any time you have the telephone company involved with your computer, expect grief. If you don't absolutely require built-in connectivity to a cell network, Try to avoid this pain. Just two issues: 1) the provider will try to install software onto your machine that you don't want, can't delete and can't shut off; 2) the provider is not interested in upgrading your ROM for any other reason than locking you even more into their own services.
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The MiFi option works best for me... (Score:3, Interesting)
3G plan why? (Score:2)
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Not woth the extra cost (Score:2)
For me it's not worth the extra cost. And extra $127.00 (US) for a service I'm going to need a few times a year? With a crippled data plan? Sorry, but my smartphone comes with a data plan more generous than either AT&T or Verizon can offer. Especially considering their ridiculous limits on WiFi hot-spotting. Make the device within the actual cost difference of the chips and give me a reasonable data plan and I'll think about it.
It depends on your environment (Score:5, Interesting)
In my area, Cablevision, Time Warner, and Comcast have lined the major highways with Wifi access points. Even better, I can register my mobile device MAC addresses on the Cablevision web site, so I don't even have to go through a sign-in (it looks like an open access point to a registered MAC), and there's no extra charge for WiFi connectivity (it's included in the home internet cost).
My wife has been driving while I Googled - in a moving vehicle - with no problem. The hand-offs seem to work fine. The more ubiquitous WiFi is, the less important 3G is. Why pay a monthly fee for something you don't need?
I've received a survey from my cable company asking a series of questions about cellular use, and inquiring whether I'd be interested in a completely unlimited, uncapped voice/text/data Android smartphone for $29/month. I suspect that the cable companies will be offering WiFi based service in the not-too-distant future over their internet/WiFi infrastructure.
Bring it (Score:2)
If you don't have Edge, 3G, 4G, and Wi-Fi, I'm not buying your tablet.
None of them has full coverage everywhere, and I want the fastest one that is covering where I am.
There's no excuse for something that's essentially the same computational system as my phone but is 5X as heavy to have less hardware in it.
MiFi FTW (Score:2)
MiFi FTW. Hook your tablet up to it, or any other wifi device you've got. In the long run it's way more useful and cheaper
wifi is fine (Score:2)
On the fence (Score:2)
Bluetooth+WiFi (Score:2)
At least until the telcos pull their heads out of their asses on data pricing.
Why not both? (Score:2)
Happy iPad (WiFi + 3G) owner here. Is Apple seriously the only one offering a tablet with both?
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Every tablet I have ever seen is either WiFi or Wifi+3G, never seen one with 3G and no wifi
Netbook w/ 3G (Score:2)
I recently bought a Dell Vostro V13 with built-in 3G WWAN connectivity [dell.com], but have not activated it. It didn't cost me any extra to have it in the netbook (in fact, I think it was cheaper because it included it ;^), but first thing I did when I got the netbook was disable the 3G card in the BIOS, then I upgraded RAM, put in an SSD, and installed a new OS. I like having it as an option, but I don't suspect I'll ever activate it (unless someone else is willing to foot the bill...)
WiFi (Score:2)
I'm not going to get a 3G tablet, because I'd have to replace it when a 4G version becomes available. ATT and verizon now support tethering. The thing that makes sense right now is getting the WiFi version so that later on when I upgrade my phone I will automatically upgrade my tablet.
tether (Score:2)
Meh (Score:2)
If you would have asked me last year, I woulda said 'fuggit, go with wifi'. Since then I got an iPad 3G as a gift. A couple of months ago I activated AT&T's cheapest plan and have been evaluating it. I think AT&T is charging way too much for what they offer, $15 for 250 megs? Arg. Getting past that, though, I do think it makes the Tablet more useful. I mean, anywhere you go, you can browse the net. Instant messaging works, email works, everything short of Netflix works reasonably well. I thi
A LOT More Expensive (Score:2)
Cheaper to have a WiFi router in your house and remember that there is a lot of WiFi to be found out in the world.
Also WiFi isn't capped.
Or even get a single WiFi hotspot (e.g. Verizon MiFi) and use it with ALL of your devices. Why pay by the device for 3G?
Tether from phone (Score:2)
Depends on your scenario (Score:2)
For my part, I went the WiFi-only and tethered smartphone route. I use my 3G service via a tethered device regularly, but that situation may change. If it does, I can easily discontinue the tethering service option with my mobile provider, no fuss, no penalties, no fiddling about with contracts. Also, no paying extra for 3G hardware I might not actually use. This works swimmingly for my needs.
That said, a colleague uses her tablet very heavily for daily work and requires reliable connectivity. She opte
Tethering (Score:2)
I mostly don't use 3G, since the tablet mainly stays at home/work/inbetween (public wifi). For those rare cases when I need 3G, tethering is enough.
I tend to pre-download content, including websites, a lot, though. My guess is people who don't plan ahead, or spend a lot of time in transport, can make good use of 3G.
Why I love my 3g iPad... (Score:2)
What I would like to see, personally: (Score:5, Interesting)
What I would like to see is a non-profit org get created for the sole purpose of acquiring licensed spectrum for long-range packet radio, and to create an open-licensed wireless protocol to use it-- Then release it publicly FOSS style.
Because it would be long distance (1 to 2 miles would be the ideal coverage area for access points I would think.. could be wrong though. That's just a guess.) it would need to prevent abuse as part of the protocol itself, and so I personally would like to see encryption be a requirement for devices to connect-- Not some gutless password based encryption either, I mean PKI-style encryption with issued certificates kind.
One of the neat things about public/private key encryption is that you can theoretically have multiple public keys to a single private key, which could then be independently enforced.
The idea is to replace 802.11x (A, B, G, N) straight up, and to make consumer boxes that serve as access points just like wifi routers. For businesses offering complimentary internet, (who wouldnt want to be a free ISP to everyone within 1-2 miles-- and only offer to paying customers) a simple near-feild communication plate built into the counter at the store could supply a time-leased certificate to the device (think really short range bluetooth), giving it permission to access the AP, which would then get revoked after the time elapses. The ability to have multiple public keys per private key would let this work. The business's AP would keep a "pool" of public certs, and would track their use against unique hardware IDs from the connecting devices. (The AP would check that the cert is valid, then check to see who it was issued to-- If the unique ID does not match, no connection.) This would keep people from being repeat customers at a specific place, and eventually having every cert in the pool pushed to their device over time, and then no longer needing to make a purchase to gain access. It would also prevent people from using what is assumed to be a unique public key at the same time somebody else is, and causing problems. (There would be 2 levels of uniqueness-- Unique public key, and unique device MAC. The AP would check both, and decline connection if either is invalid.)
Certificate checking would be strictly enfoced, but 1:1 correlations between certs and devices would not be, based on how the AP is configured. For people wanting to run "Open" connections, (Equivilent of unprotected wifi), a default certificate set of 1 private key (burned into the AP as part of specification compliance), and 1 public key would be ubiquitous to all devices, and would fascilitate that configuration. The over-air data would still be encrypted, just with this defacto key set. (Useless from a security standpoint because everyone has the keys, but useful from a protocol design standpoint because you can always populate the encryption type feild of the datagram header, even in "open" mode.)
The ideal situation would allow deployment of user-generated key sets right out of the box, built on strong encryption bit depths---
It would be the beginning of the open-mesh network everyone seems to want so badly, myself included.
Given that whitespaces have been enabled for public use, maybe I should order an FPGA kit and cobble together a proof of concept some time...
I really would like to see a non-profit org created to administer a project like this though. Could even use whitespace spectrum instead of licensing dedicated.
Re:wifi? (Score:5, Insightful)
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It hardly matters which you use, other than wifi if a far more secure interface and much more robust.
You are going to run another radio anyway, why opt for bluetooth over wifi, especially when they are usually built into the same chipset. There is no power saving involved in one over the other.
When I turn on my wifi tethering in my Nexus One, AT&T doesn't know its tethering, and I have a fully encrypted WPA2 hotsopt.
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WiFi and bluetooth do not use the same amount of power. That is ridiculous.
Prove it.
Like I said, they re embedded in the same chipset [broadcom.com] on most smartphones.
Further, they have about the same range, and the same bandwidth.
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Why use a MiFi when you can just turn your phone into a wifi access point?
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Why use a MiFi when you can just turn your phone into a wifi access point?
This is what I do currently... but it really kills the battery life of my phone, which already has pretty crappy battery life to begin with. It's ok if I'm able to plug my phone in and/or charge it, but if I'm out and about, I try to use the wifi AP option very sparingly.
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Using your phone drains the battery pretty fast. Some phones can't even keep the battery charged even while plugged in.
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Well, you have read between the lines a little bit...
I have had an iPad for more than a year [...]
Considering the iPad has only been in existence for a little more than a year, he obviously stood in line for his. Read: Fanboi.
Thus, he has an iPhone. This whole "being able to use your phone as a WiFi access point" is an innovative brand-new idea from Apple. But a year ago, such amazing technology didn't exist because Apple hadn't invented it yet.
Give him a break...
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Most places you go will have WIFI available, and if not, I'm betting you have a smartphone anyway. Tether with that for zero dollars.
It your job pays for the 3G bill, fine. But otherwise thats a lot of money for occasional use.
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You'd have to buy up the spectrum for 3G, it's licenced. And you would require an awful lot of money to do so.
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internet access in the few places that don't offer free wifi these days
If you commute on a bus, and your city doesn't have Wi-Fi on its buses, then yes, you're spending a lot of time away from free Wi-Fi.
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If you're ok with $529 plus $50 a month, you can afford to drive AND park almost anywhere (Manhattan excluded).
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** Apple-police dispatched. Please remain at your current location **
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** Apple-police dispatched. You're re in no way obligated to stay **
** WARNING - Moving may cause intense pain **
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No.
Try it.
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I Did, and.. No. I can not get the value to justify the cost.
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Okay, so why is that a 'no' for everybody else?
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train, bus, tube, even car if not driving ?
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If you get it with 3G but don't activate 3G, does the GPS still work?
I have unlimited 3G on my cell, but tethering is metered unless I jailbreak. It also limits the size of apps I can download over 3G, requiring WiFi usage for anything over 20 MB.