Ask Slashdot: Best Wi-Fi Solution For a Hotel? 300
dynamo52 writes "I have been tasked with replacing a managed Wi-Fi system for a mid-sized hotel. They have already selected Comcast to provide a 100mbps connection, which unfortunately must come in at one corner of the ~5-acre property. The hotel plans to provide this service for free, so there is no need for any type of billing management system, though it should be secured enough that the parking lot does not become a free Wi-Fi hotspot. Additionally, there is no ethernet infrastructure in place. The existing APs (hidden away in proprietary encasements) seem to be connected via telephone lines and the owners have strongly indicated they would prefer that no new wiring be installed. Have any Slashdotters implemented similar systems? Specifically, what hardware did you use and what special considerations should I take in designing this system?"
Well if they getting comcast tv as well then (Score:4, Informative)
Well if they getting comcast tv as well then they may need to rewire the cable system as well any ways. Any way more info on how they AP are setup and linked will help.
And to cut down on free wifi use you can set a password that you just give out to hotel guests.
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No need, you can install a VDSL DSLAM where all of those phone cables connect and get a reasonably decent data rate to the hotspots.
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I didn't think that would be a big issue either, however, as others pointed out, making it a simple password would be the equivalent of having a latch on a screen door. Just enough to keep out the majority of unauthorized users looking for a free connect, but not enough to keep out people serious enough that they could bypass tougher security anyway. A reasonable 90%-95% solution.
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How many parking lot surfers are you really going to see?
Who knows? It's easy to discourage them, and there is another advantage ...
If you use WPA2 with a password, each user has their own connection encrypted separately from everybody else's, even if everybody is using the same WPA2 password. So people cannot sniff each other's traffic.
(With WEP, if you knew the shared password, you could use it to decrypt everybody's traffic that used the same password. This isn't related to how WEP was cracked, it's just a part of how it works. But WPA2 is smarter and ever
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In the last 20 years, my wife and I have had only one fraudulent charge each. My wife's was done by her mother, who actually opened a credit card under her name. That was easily solved by showing that my wife was under the age of 18 when the card was opened, and thus could not have legally opened the card. The other was happening inside of Chase. We could tell this because new charges started showing up o
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If you haven't had a credit card number "borrowed" at least once a year, you're not shopping online. And not going to restaurants either.
Actually, I use my Visa card regularly: restaurants, gas stations, drug stores, parking, buying clothes, etc.. I usually carry a small amount of cash for incidentals, but if I'm having a $50+ meal with some friends, it goes on the Visa. I have even used the card at restaurants and stores overseas (Europe, the south Pacific, and the Caribbean). I have even been known to make the occasional purchase online, though that's mostly been computers and computer equipment. My habits with the card have not changed in
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OK spill the beans, whom do you use? that's all good and I recall that level of service, but I don't see it anymore.
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If you haven't had a credit card number "borrowed" at least once a year, you're not shopping online. And not going to restaurants either.
Never had a number lifted or borrowed, and I put well over 100k a year on two different cards for personal and work, and have for many years. And I use my cards for everything, never use cash, never buy local what I can order online. Even pizza is ordered and paid online. Seldom a day goes buy without purchasing something small on the Visa although Amex is my card of choi
Juniper or Aruba (Score:2)
Juniper's recent purchase of Trapeze gives them a pretty powerful line of wireless hardware with software to support it. One cool feature is the ability to literally draw lines based on floorplan as to where a given AP will allow a client to connect.
Then there's Aruba. They have some really great management and security features. Browse both vendor's sites and take a look at their literature. I've seen both implemented to good effect in your type of scenario.
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No Offense... (Score:5, Insightful)
No offense... but judging by your wording, the hotel should really hire a professional. Mark my words: this will turn well for neither you nor the hotel.
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No offense... but judging by your wording, the hotel should really hire a professional. Mark my words: this will turn well for neither you nor the hotel.
I agree this is not something you should attempt without professional advice, you have a nightmare in the making here.
Have you thought of using internet over mains wiring?
There are plug packs that that plug into a power socket and have a network connector on one end .
http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline.htm [solwise.co.uk]
This would give guests close to the ease of use of a wireless network without the headaches of security concerns and wireless dropouts.
You could then set up a small wireless network for t
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good grief no , there is a slight issue that mains wiring has to be on the same circuit to work and even then at a moderate distance (20 meters or so ) the speed will be the equivalent of an acoustically coupled modem connected to two tin cans and a piece of soggy string.
The advertised distances are a complete joke.
chances are you will need to run some cables and with the distances some of these probably need to be fibre
to make it work in any reasonable manner.
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Chances are, you've had some bad experiences with some bad hardware... I use powerline networking at home... the best link (that's actually a real world application) is about 40m of cable, and pulls 55-65mbit depending on what's running on the circuit at the time. The *worst* link is about 75m of cable between the two adapters, both of which are connected to a different phase of the power line, and pulls about 15mbit between the two.
That said, I still wouldn't consider powerline networking for the hotel. It
Internet over mains....... Ham radio (Score:3)
"It's as if millions of Radio Hams suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."
Broadband over power line wipes out short wave radio.
http://www.arrl.org/broadband-over-powerline-bpl [arrl.org]
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No offense, but it's people like you that cause offense. He asked a clear question in plain English. He should be rewarded for this.
It proves nothing to jam a sentence with jargon to make one look smart.
Rather than a single critique, you could provide a cogent answer, but you didn't. You just created white noise and denigrated a guy who is trying to do his best.
Offense taken.
Repurpose the telephone cabling (Score:2)
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second that, I've gotten away with using CAT3 in a pinch, but testing the longest runs is a good place to start. Hell, it might not even be the end of the world if it negotiates @ 10Mbps. Presumably there's local power @ the WAP location?
How many rooms? (or 'keys' as they say in the hospitality business)
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Is there any reason at all to use greater than 10 megabit Ethernet at all?
10base-T is made for Cat 3, and it's nowhere near as slow/ugly with modern gear as some of us remember from the dark old days of cheap unswitched networking. Just ratchet the port speed down to 10Mbps and call it a day (with the usual caveats about distance limits and the like).
Setting the port speed explicitly results in much more reliable communication than just expecting the NICs at either end to just figure it out for themselves,
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That sounds like a reasonable plan only if the existing cabling is Cat-5 or better. Most dedicated phone cabling (especially if it's more than about 10 years old) is almost certainly not Cat-5.
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not when the 10 is being used for like 20-30 rooms.
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I been at hotels where at best I was getting 1.5 (Score:2)
I been at hotels where at best I was getting 1.5 on a speed test and other time I needed to reload web pages over and over just to get them to load. So don't cheap out on the links from the AP back to main hook up.
Policy (Score:5, Interesting)
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Bridges (Score:2)
Does it need to be an open Wifi or can you set up Bridges?
Repeaters (Score:2)
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Do people still wardrive? I always figured that was an early 2000s "geeky fun" activity that's long since become boring and uninteresting.
I know I wardrove a bit during the early days of wifi, but these days I find the idea kind of ridiculous and immature. :)
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Meraki wifi mesh (Score:3)
This is pretty much what Meraki was designed to do.
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My condo association installed Meraki based wifi to service 250 condo units on at least 5 acres. I have no major complaints, other than occasionally I find a coverage dead zone.
time warner cable has a in room AP systems (Score:2)
time Warner cable has in room modems / AP system for hotels that is tied to the hotel cable system. Now I don't know if comcast has them or not but if they do then all you have to do is run a cable off of the tv system to the AP spots. But that may need to have cable boxes in each room and limits on how much analog tv you can have on the system.
DSLAM and Auth Server (Score:3, Interesting)
You will place dsl modems in each area you want access points.
You can even have all rooms or some premium rooms with hidden away dsl modems and a network cable coming out.
You just need to setup a dslam after the modem and configure routing.
You would want a login interface so users have to accept terms and conditions.
Using the dsl method, you can setup access points at whatever strength seems secure enough wherever there is a phone connection or wiring, and you can splice the wiring if necessary. You will need to place cheap filters on every normal phone connection, but that is a minimal cost.
You can also look at ethernet over power line, but there are lots of variables and speed issues that makes this not ideal.
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My friend, you need a copy of ULALyzer [eularesearchcenter.com] by Javacool Software. The free version will do much to lower your irritation level. We all know EULAs are not going away. As you note, they're not only here to stay, but they're getting more abstruse with each passing day.
The program produces an "overall" rating for the EULA you give it to analyze (in most cases, just by moving your mouse over the EULA text on your screen -- but, sometimes, cut and paste is required; for example, when you want it to an
Is the telephone wiring Cat-5? (Score:2)
If the wiring is already Cat5, then you should be good to swap out the proprietary boxes and find the other end for the router/network closet.
If they are really telephone-grade wires, find the other ends and pull Cat5 through (by tying string/cat5 to the existing wiring.)
Whatever the right thing is, do it right the first time and the hotel will save money either fixing it or dealing with unhappy guests. It may cost more initially. Really unhappy guests don't return.
IMarv
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If he finds CAT3 and the phones only use one pair, he might hit the jackpot: you can run 10-base-T over CAT 3, as it is rated for 10 MHz / 100m IIRC.
This means getting a good network switch that you can program to automatically derate the ports to 10-base-T, playing some games in the PBX wiring closet, sticking wireless repeaters at the other end, and Bob's your uncle.
No hotel guest would complain about a 10Mbit network if the coverage was good and there weren't too many stations per AP.
stitching things together (Score:3)
It's possible that running cable through the building is a nightmare. The owners may have painful memories of how things went when the last APs were installed. Talk with them and find out what went badly. There may be a better way, or maybe not.
You may be forced to do wireless repeating. This is going to make a significant increase to the cost, but that may be the only option. First thing I'd do is start scouting around to see where good spots for APs are. The current ones may have simply been spaced evenly with no signal planning/testing whatsoever. Try the roof. You may not be able to run cable around IN the building, but have NO problem getting up onto the roof, and scatter APs around above people instead of in the hallways, thus avoiding the cable running problem. (you'd also be farther from the parking lot)
Done. (Score:2)
I've done this at a small (~70 room) hotel/conference center with three Linksys WRTG54Ls, one master and two repeaters plus three sets of high gain antennas.
WiFi access points, meshing and user auth (Score:3)
Hi,
Right this is only going from personal experience. At work we've bought UniFi access points.
Not to plug it overly but the roaming for clients between access points and easy provisioning system is a treat including the handling of the "guest" network with user/pass sign-on in the browser.
As far as cabling etc goes if you've got any largeish distance to cover then a simple wifi bridge should do the trick?
All of this of course depends on the amount of clients you are expecting to be online at one given time on the network. If you want to use this as an meshed network then you will obviously get a higher latency the further you go from the core node.
The above example would not be suitable for a very large hotel, and if you want to cover large outside areas then the antennas will cost a few buck not just in hardware but testing coverage / installation.
DD-WRT (Score:2)
And you are pretty much done. If you want to do something more fancy for logging in, DD-WRT has many options. I have no personal experience with them, however.
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wrong advise. I don't even know where to start. Oh, I do. Get a professional to do this.
Wha? (Score:5, Insightful)
As usual for "Ask Slashdot," you have left out key details that would allow people to give you meaningful responses. For example:
There may be more to this job than you have considered.
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Informative)
OK, while others here have provided good suggestions you are the first to ask specific and relevant questions.
What is the hotel using now and why does it want to replace it?
They are using a third party provider that manages the entire system. This system includes a paywall that they no longer feel is advantageous to their business. Additionally, they are bringing in Comcast to provide telephone and television services as well.
What is a "proprietary encasement," and who put the APs there? Are you expected to put new APs in the same encasements? What will happen to the old APs?
The existing APs are located in individual bottom floor rooms in two story buildings. They are placed in boxes sealed with tamperproof bolts. The only lines in are what appears to be a standard telephone line and a power cable. There is also a telephone line coming out connected to the telephone. Presumably, the company who manages the current system will take the old APs. The existing networking equipment is also protected from closer inspection though does connect through standard telephone punchdown blocks.
You say the hotel doesn't want to lay any new cable. That might just be too bad, but it also seems to imply that there is already some cable somewhere. Why not use the existing cable? You say the APs "seem to be connected by telephone wire," but you don't sound sure. Perhaps it's just long strings with tin cans at each end? Is there any way to find out?
If new cabling is required then so be it. The owners would just rather it be kept to the absolute minimum necessary.
If the existing network is as strange and nonstandard as you make it sound, why is that? Was there something unique to the property that made that the best solution, and is it smart for you to ignore that?
I think the primary reason again was the desire to avoid new wiring.
Before you begin, have you verified that the hotel's contract with Comcast actually allows it to offer Internet access to the public?
Yes
You say the hotel wants to provide the network for free, so there's no need for any billing management system. Are you then comfortable with the idea that there will be no logging of the network at all, and no record of who might have used it and when? Is BitTorrent OK? How about botnets?
The ability to centrally manage the APs is a strong plus. Additionally, logging is not highly critical but the ability to ensure that bandwidth is distributed as equitably as possible would be nice. Yes, I would like the ability to restrict botnets and other undesirable traffic.
If the patrons aren't expected to pay for the network, can they expect it to exist at all? That is, do you have a plan to test and verify that every room will have equal access to the network, and that a guest who came last summer won't return this summer and find out that the hotel doesn't seem to have WiFi anymore (when in fact it's just their new room)?
It should be available throughout. I do plan to test signal strength from every room.
Are you aware of FCC regulations regarding signal strength of your antennas, for those portions of the property that might be natural dark spots?
Yes, I will add APs as needed
Does your task include just replacing the network or does it also include managing the network, making repairs, etc.? How much time do you plan to devote to that?
I will be managing the system also. I do not wish to devote a tremendous amount of time to managing this system once it is in place. A central management console will be highly valued.
Re:Wha? (Score:4, Informative)
Other relevant info:
There are currently ~15 APs on site
The coverage area includes approximately 350 rooms, two courtyards, and the lobby area.
There are four two story buildings that house the rooms.
The total dimensions of the property are ~100m x ~200m
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Judging from this info, you'll probably get away with 1 AP per floor located centrally and one for each courtyard and one for the lobby if you have high-gain antennas on the individual floor access points.
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Given these stats, I agree with the poster who earlier suggested you use dd-wrt as the firmware solution, flashed onto relatively cheap commodity routers. Via the dd-wrt shop are some 'exotic' APs, with weather housing, etc. Most importantly is the router database of supported commodity units. Basically you configure as many as needed to achieve saturation, spreading channels, etc. Using modern routers with dual-frequencies, N, and what have you; it should not cost much, and these units might just drop in t
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Is this hotel apart of a hotel chain or is it owned by individuals? Most hotel chains much use companies that they recommend for setup and support for their hotels. Some chains require this others only suggest it I'm sure they know this, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Does the company use Comcast Business class internet? If not, do they know there's a 250mb cap on the internet?
Is this hotel Enclosed ie. (walk ways
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Is this hotel apart of a hotel chain or is it owned by individuals?
I am not exactly sure of the ownership structure but it is not a chain. Management has full discretion.
Does the company use Comcast Business class internet?
Yes, Comcast is fully aware of this circuit's intended purpose.
Is this hotel Enclosed
No. All walkways are outdoors. The existing APs are in bottom floor rooms.
On top of the internet they are getting do they have a gateway already setup?
No. I am replacing the entire network. I already have ideas for switches, gateways, etc, but why not solicit free outside advice if possible? :)
If your looking to support this your self are you aware most hotel guess don't come in until either very early in the morning or very late at night,
I do work with associates to provide 24/7 availability to clients. I would obviously prefer as centrally managed a system a
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Informative)
This is just a regular DSL/DSLAM setup. Basically the hotel is acting like a phone company providing DSL, and the phones in the hotel rooms are the "DSL customers". You go to where the hotel's phone switching equipment is at, and hook up a DSLAM which is connected to your public Internet router. You then use that to "provide DSL" to each of the rooms where you want a wired network drop. The chosen rooms (or tamperproof proprietary boxes in your case) have a DSL modem, which splits the ethernet from the POTS.
You can piggyback this over your currently existing phone lines (that's the whole point of DSL), or you an run new Cat 3 lines just for the DSL (if you don't plan to offer wired network service in the rooms, and don't want customers messing with the hardware). Most hotel phone systems have plenty of extra capacity and lines for you to do this without having to install new cable. The reason for using DSL is that ethernet's specs limit it to 100 m, about 85 m in real life in my experience. That's way too short to reach from one end of a hotel to the other. DSL on the other hand is good out for several km.
It's pretty straightforward stuff if you've done any networking setup. The same stuff about regular DSL applies (e.g. use filters on any extra extensions). And unlike DSL from the phone company, you have to deal with both ends of the service. Most hotels use VDSL/VDSL2 because it allows higher bandwidth over a shorter distance. ADSL is really optimized for Cat 3 distances of several km, which isn't necessary for a hotel, and its max uplink throughput may be insufficient for a heavily used public WAP. I'd provide links but I did this about 5 years ago, so the links I have would likely be outdated.
Once you get the DSLAM and DSL modems set up, they act as a bridge and are transparent. The WAPs will show up on whatever LAN you have plugged into the DSLAM. If you want (and I would recommend), you can make it its own subnet. Assign static IPs to the WAPs so you can manage them. The fancier models will even let you set up VLANs, so you can do fancy things like limit direct access to the WAPs to a VLAN that's not available to customers connecting over the wireless (provided the WAPs are VLAN-aware). You will also have to handle QoS and bandwidth throttling, to prevent a single customer from using up all the bandwidth. But that's a given.
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Very useful post, thank you!
Do you have any specific vendor recommendations for the multiplexor and modems?
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If you want to do this properly, it won't be cheap or easy.
Companies like Cisco have some incredible products that will do exactly what you want, but you probably won't be able to configure them yourself.
You will probably need to run new cabling to the wireless access points, but if it's done properly this time, it'll be relatively future proof.
Install one run of cat5e or cat6 cabling to each area where you need an access point, probably in a ceiling cavity or something like that. Install the access points,
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I would appreciate that you keep quiet if you don't have anything constructive to offer. Your smart ass attitude of "let me think that straight for you" is what makes Slashdot such a painful place to hang out. If you are knowledgeable, you could still make educated assumptions to these supposedly key details and provide helpful answer. You inability to do so should not be blamed on the person asking the question. Besides, I think most of the detail you ask for are irrelevant....
Your ignorance is astounding this has to be a troll oh well here goes.
.
What the previous poster is trying to do is get a picture of what the install site is like and with this info they can provide some suggestions.
This is not a small setup that you would have for your home.
This really needs to be given some thought or else if you make assumptions the network will not work and the job will have been done all over again
This being an example of what could go wrong.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news [dailymail.co.uk]
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Why are you asking this? There is no reason you should need to know why they want to replace something.
So you tell me you want a new car. I say get a Scion. Case closed.
I'm almost certain he means that the hotel uses leased lines (which is dedicate circuit telephone wire, not circuit switched like your typical telephone) and some sort of modem to connect the APs.
Glad you're certain of that.
There is ethernet over phone line and ethernet over coax cable adapters that he can use to avoid laying new ethernet wires.
We know all that.
As a commentor, it is your job to mention these options, not to ask him back and blame him for not providing you with the detail.
Really? What's that job pay? And who's blaming anybody? You sound very defensive. Have you had your coffee?
building wiring is often a hack job just like how much of the programs are spaghetti code. Electricians who are good at wiring is hard to find. All you can do is to work with the mess and make it better.
And what does "working with the mess" entail? Might that not limit your choices?
Good that you brought it up, but why can't you answer your own questions?
Because I'm not the one who can provide the answers. How much money do I have in my pocket right now, and why can't you answer that question?
I'm sure they will take care of it.
Yes I'm sure.
That's his business, not yours.
You know what, why don't you just roll over and go back to s
Nevermind the Wi-Fi... (Score:4, Interesting)
Disclosure: I work for a major service provider/telco.
Don't worry about the wi-fi system so much, there are plenty of solutions for that. Instead, worry more about the connection.
You can have the best wi-fi in the world, but if your connection is down, then you've still got a hotel full of angry customers.
Some things to consider?
1. Network diversity. If you are going to get a multi-T1 setup, then make sure you request network diversity. Yes, it costs more, but if you have all of your T1 connections riding the same sets of DS3s to your hotel, you have a single point of failure. I work with this my entire shift, every day at work. The customer bought a 6-T1 MLPPP ckt to make sure their business had enough bandwidth, but all six are riding the same DS3. The DS3 craps out and *poof*. And DS3s crapping out is dreadfully common. Also, having your circuits come to you from different central offices is also a good idea. Again, it'll cost more, but it'll be worth it when some idiot takes out a telephone pole or punches an auger down through the F2 pairs.
2. Employee training. I cannot stress this enough. Every single hotel we do business with all has one, maybe two "IT people", and everyone else in the entire hotel cannot tell the difference between a Cisco or a Black & Decker (router). And trying to find that "IT Person" at 1AM is like trying to find chicken teeth. In the meantime, I'm sitting at my desk, getting escalations from your senior management, pulling my hair out and waiting for SOMEONE on-site to pull the cable out of the RJ48X so I can test to a loop.
Teach your employees where the smartjack is located and what the lights on it mean. Teach them what the CSU/DSU is, and what the lights on that mean. Show them how to do a hard-boot (unplug-replug), how to follow the cables, how to "exercise the jack" (unplug-replug). And if you REALLY wanna give me a warm fuzzy, make a loopback plug, show them how to use it, and leave a few of them hanging on a peg in your telco room.
I know that sounds like a lot to ask from your "associates", but if I can teach a grocery store manager how to do it over the phone, you can certainly do it too.
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you want your bar to be the pool guy...
You say that in jest, but I assure you, it's true. It was for a major "value" hotel chain, and their "local point of contact" was the pool guy. That said, he was sharper than most sales reps I've had to work with?
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you're an about to be retired ma' Bell tech
Guilty as charged. Sorta. I came into the industry late in the game, so yeah, wireline is on the way out. At least on the DS1 and below, anyway. Still need DS3 and above to get data to the towers, so I'm being moved to another group in the new year. Looking forward to a change, DS1 and below is getting tedious.
Disgruntled as fuck? Begrudged? Arrogantly stated???
I'm sorry, AC, but I can't even claim nolo contendre to that. Sheesh! I'm guessing YOU ran into
Checkbox WiFi Hotspot Router (Score:3, Informative)
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Anyone else shocked (Score:2)
There's Wi-Fi, and there's wi-fi (Score:2)
You could do like the timeshare [defenderresorts.com] did where we recently stayed at in Ocean City, MD. They boasted free wi-fi. That said, the access point was in the office and was accessible only in the office, on a small bistro-style table (and only when the office was open) or in the indoor pool next door.
Epic fail.
DSL and Cable (Score:3)
A lot of hotel's use DSL or Cable infrastructure. The back end equipment is more expensive than traditional Cat5+, but that is typically offset by the wiring costs. If you already have Comcast Business Systems or Comcast Telcom delivering the 100Mbit then I would ask them if they have a line up on bridging technology ready to roll.
The biggest issue you'll have with the actual WiFi is selecting a product that can handle the load in your common and event areas. Consumer/SOHO APs start to crush after 10+ clients.
While you won't have to have a billing system, you should still have something on the backend that will track the users and make them accept an AUP. Astaro is the cheapest turn key system combining firewall capabilities and pre-integrated APs.
Hotel Front Desk != IT Support (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that difficult (Score:3)
I feel you're overthinking this.
Existing WAPs. I'm assuming you have admin access to them. If they're connected to telephone wire that means the hotel has its own DSL network (search for the DSLAM) or some prorietary data over phone solution (weird little dongles on each end). No need to replace these things. 90% of the work is already done.
Find the DSLAM or whatever router is currently serving the WAPs. Pull you comcast line to there. If the router or switch is aged, consider replacing them.
Verification, for small businesses I prefer to just give out a WPA key that changes monthly (teach staff how to change them). Ideally, you can have a radius system but that will require API access to their guest management software to pull values like last name, room number, etc. That might be overkill though.
Open mesh (Score:2)
IMO Open mesh [open-mesh.com] should do the job. 60$ to 99$ a piece, no dependency to third parties (unlike meraki); free, open source. Zero config, just plug in power and go. You can centrally manage things like bandwidth, splash page, etc.
Meshes have no practical coverage limits, can be finetuned as you are using many small APs (which connect wirelessly to each other) to customize the coverage areas, only one of them needs a link to the lan/wan.
Meraki started nice, but became proprietary and expensive, open mesh retained
DO plan for a paywall (Score:2)
The hotel plans to provide this service for free, so there is no need for any type of billing management system
Business conditions can and will change, and at some point in the future management will decide to charge at least some of their guests for Internet access. My point is simply: be flexible. Don't go with a system that prevents charging at a later date. Your best strategy might be to go with a solution that handles payment, and then set the price to zero (i.e., free). Then, at a later date management can set a different price.
CapturePoint (Score:2)
Check CapturePoint [mw.net]. They have a pretty simple way to do it that puts everything in the router and can extend the network using inexpensive mesh nodes instead of hardwired access points.
I work for a WISP (Score:2)
I do this for a living, so here's a few more questions (I see some were asked by PCM2 already):
How many buildings are there on the property? How tall is each one? What is the layout (facing each other, central courtyard, one long line)? What is the construction material of the exterior of the buildings? The interior (between rooms)?
Is there a central telephone room that all the buildings link into? Have you run a line tone to make sure?
Check each room to see how many telephone pairs are going in. If t
DIY (Score:2)
Meraki / Mesh Wifi? (Score:2)
"must come in at one corner" and " no new wiring" read to me like: You definitely need mesh wifi (really, really good mesh).
I've installed Meraki at a few businesses (nothing huge like a hotel, granted) and the web interface works wonders. They build in features like QOS, traffic shaping and splash pages. Basically _anyone_ who isn't a total technophobe can manage a Meraki install. Their meshing is, so far as I've seen, very strong. I think you'd want to have more than 1 "gateway" device (That which is
Physical plant is the first choice to make (Score:2)
First of all, you need something to transfer the data over until it hits the air. For that you have a couple options as to the physical plant -- the stuff the data goes over: phone line wire (cat3), twisted pair (cat5), power lines (with 120VAC on them), fiber optic, and coaxial cable. CAT3 (phone wire) is cheapest, especially if you can reuse existing lines. Cat3 will support 10BASE-T Ethernet and DSL. Cat5 will support 100BASE-T Ethernet. Fiber Optic -- can be ATM or Ethernet. If coaxial cable (RG-59 as u
Leases (Score:5, Informative)
Problem well described is half solved (Score:3)
How many rooms, how many stories. What's the size of the building? What are the walls made of? What's your budget?
All of these things make a difference in what will be needed to provide a usable WiFi signal to all rooms. Don't do anything less than WiFi; most traveling devices have WiFi capabilities, but many of them do not have LAN jacks.
Comcast already has cable to the office; have them put their cable modem there - not at the property line. Then you'll be able to secure the networking equipment and make the owners feel more secure.
Beyond that, distances and construction matter. You're going to need multiple access points; how many and where to put them depends on the particular scenario. Even the height of the access point from ground level makes a huge difference in coverage.
It's quite possible to do this at a fairly low cost and provide reliable service to the guests. But if you've never planned and installed a network system like this before - run away as fast as you can and let someone else do it.
The specs on the access points are wishful thinking under the best of conditions; this job really needs someone with experience in wireless installations to plan it.
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and i would bet that one or more will be consulted (since i think that the SlashHive can't show up "on site") but the comments here will give enough info so that any SnowJobs are prevented.
Re:Dude, I don't wanna shit all over your question (Score:5, Funny)
.. seems like there is an entire market of consultants ..
Yes, people hire them because they are too embarrassed to "ask slashdot" by themselves.
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But it seems like there is an entire market of consultants whose entire job description is planning this sort of thing?
Which seems absurd as well. Why is there an entire market of consultants whose entire job it is to plan wireless access points and routers? Seems like the kind of project that you could figure out by googling and reading the docs from the wireless network equipment companies; and then checking technology websites (like slashdot) online to see if people had any feedback/reviews they wanted to give for such systems.
Re:Dude, I don't wanna shit all over your question (Score:4, Informative)
You have to do a site survey to determine the best layout for the APs including equipment placement, channel patterns and power levels to maximize the best SNR against the overall cost. 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both? What are the structural barriers in place? Do you want to have blanket coverage or only cover certain areas? What level of WLAN redundancy do you want? How much should your coverage overlap? Are you bridging wirelessly? Using extended VLANs, centralizing the traffic and management? How are you handling zone handoff?
There's a lot of initial prep work that goes on before you even begin to place equipment.
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Which is probably why he asked the question. Is there any vendor neutral books you would recommend? I don't have any experience in this field either, but it's always interesting to see where other people started from.
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True, but judging from the hotels I've stayed in over the years, I'd be willing to bet that few, if any of them did... well... any of that. They buy or lease some pre-built router box, toss in two or three access points per floor, all in bridging mode, cable it up with 100BASE-TX or maybe Gig-E, connect the other side to some sad DSL modem, or if you're really lucky, a T1, and call it a day.
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Apparently basic research skills are on the decline in modern society...
Just for consultants
And where does Google get its information from? (Score:3)
You know, Google has to get this information from somewhere. I can't even count the times when I Googled something, only to find 15 other people who've asked the same question, and nothing but snarky replies saying "just Google it you moron!"
Suggestion for you: just don't click on any "Ask Slashdot" links and leave this feature for those of us who actually want to learn something...
There is no shame in asking -- nobody is born knowing everything.
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Funny, reading Slashdot, I found multiple ways of setting up mesh networks for wireless ( given it's 2 years old, but it's a research point ) and then I googled the idea for a simple large wireless network, for 500 users, and a front end security for the guest.
a simple free Radius server http://freeradius.org/ [freeradius.org] by the way, there might be a a way to integrate it to you Point of Purchase software
there is multiple research ideas about Hotspots which could be usable
given I have not looked at the routing issues
How to sell new cable to them (Score:2)
if the cable is more than say 5 years old i would bet money that it is not within CURRENT building code (if its within the building code in force at the time). So now would be a good time to rip the old stuff out and rerun with new stuff (bonus if they will foot for proper cable chases and such).
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so you make sure that when a code update project gets done that wiring is part of it (in this case make sure that they know that performance may be "impaired" until the wiring gets fixed).
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They only have 100 Mbps outbound. As long as they have at least two standard phone lines to work with, they can route the data over the existing Cat 3 using 100BASE-T4, and they're done. No performance penalty is required. If they only have one Cat 3 wire to work with, they're pretty much screwed unless they pull new cables, as they'll have to wire it for 10BASE-T.
That said, if they're going to upgrade the wiring, they should go ahead and pull fiber. In the long run, they'll be glad they did.
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Openmesh. Support for a public and a private network, standard encryption choices on both, coupon codes could be used to limit guest vs parking lot access. Just have to run a cable to strategic points so your bandwidth isn't completely limited by wireless speeds at the last mesh hop.
http://www.open-mesh.com/ [open-mesh.com]
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Ooo, nice stuff. I've used Openmesh before with good success before.
Between openmesh and this unifi I might actually be able to convince the guys in charge of our physical network to upgrade to something from this century.
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Elsewhere in the comments, the current provider installed and manages the whole thing and charges the guests to use Wifi. They would prefer to provide their guests with free Wifi, presumably to attract more of them.