Ask Slashdot: How Is Online Engineering Coursework Viewed By Employers? 201
New submitter KA.7210 writes "I am an employed mechanical engineer, having worked with the same company since graduation from college 5 years ago. I am looking to increase my credentials by taking more engineering courses, potentially towards a certificate or a full master's degree. Going to school full time is not an option, and there is only one engineering school near me that offers a program that resembles what I wish to study, and also has the courses at night. Therefore, I have begun to look at online options, and it appears there are many legitimate, recognizable schools offering advanced courses in my area of interest. My question to Slashdot readers out there is: how do employers view degrees/advanced credentials obtained online, when compared to the more typical in-person education? Does anyone have specific experience with this situation? The eventual degree itself will have no indication that it was obtained online, but simple inference will show that it was not likely I maintained my employment on the east coast while attending school in-person on the west coast. I wish to invest my time wisely, and hope that some readers out there have experience with this issue!"
Online is worth much less (Score:5, Insightful)
At my last employer, where I was involved in the technical half of resume screening and candidate evaluations, online courses weren't worth very much in the early stages. The problem is that the quality of the programs varies so widely that it's best for the screener to just ignore them. Yes, there are diamonds in the rough, but you don't have enough time to go do the research, so you mentally block that part out and continue on. It's not particularly fair, but when you have 500 resumes to work through in a day, you have to come up with a fast system.
Now, if you make it into the later rounds and it comes down to you versus someone who hasn't demonstrated that drive to better themselves and their career? Yeah, I'd take the time to go look up the online program, any graduation statistics it published, etc.
Mod parent up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. What is your goal? (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Are you taking the additional classes to learn additional material because YOU want to?
Then it does not matter how the school is viewed. You're in it for the material.
2. Are you taking the additional classes as a "stepping stone" to an additional degree / classes that you want to take?
Again, you're in it for the material so don't worry.
3. Are you looking for something to build up your resume?
Then look for what schools have the best reputations and work around their requirements. You're in it for the school name in that case.
But don't confuse any of those items. If it HAPPENS that your choice will fit more than one category, great. But if not, then keep your focus on your primary goal.
And to reiterate the parent post, once you have your first job your work history matters far, Far, FAR more than what courses you took (are taking) or what your GPA was (is).
And since you've already stated that you have your first engineering job ...
On-line, other education and courses - advise (Score:5, Insightful)
Howdy.
I'm a VP of technology for several companies, and have been in a position to hire software, network, and system engineers since at least 1997. In all honesty, neither I, nor any of the people who've reported to me, ever paid much attention about where someone went to school, what their actual degree was, or whether they had earned some honor -- as long as the guy could deliver. From certs to prestigious schools, we never really bothered. Eventually I found out that I had a couple of MIT grads and at least one Stanford kid. I also had a pile of people whose degrees were awarded by foreign universities (including my own) and really... nobody really cares.
If you have the skills and you have the work experience, then you should be fine.
Right now I sit on the tech board for a couple of companies in Europe and the US, and I'm driving the technology at a very large social network with dev operations in the UK and Russia. I do notice that Europeans pay more attention to "schooling" and "degrees" and "titles" than US companies do, but not by much. My former employers and clients include some of the largest companies in Silicon Valley, rest of the US, Europe, Japan, and Mexico. The only occasions when I had to produce some kind of official proof of education were:
* When getting my US labor certification (1991... long time ago...), and when getting my Russian labor certification (last year) -- bureaucrats just love the fsck-ng paperwork
* When applying for a US federal job -- even then, they clarified that all they care about is whether I completed the degree or whether it was accredited, the date, and some accreditation equivalence since my degrees are from foreign institutions
Pro Tip: see if your employer will pitch in for part or whole course. Tech departments have educational budgets ranging from a couple of hundred dollars/year for books per employee, to full scholarships. I've auth'd books, on-line courses, conferences, PIM, and university courses for my peeps many times in the past. Check that out with your supervisor or with HR. A lot of people don't realize the option might be there -- and, if others in your group aren't taking advantage of it, your manager may be amiable to extend your budget a bit more (since money she doesn't spend is money she may have to cut next year).
So -- get your education wherever you can as long as they are legit, kick some butt, take names, and good luck in your career advancement!
Cheers!
It depends on what you mean by "online" (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been working towards my masters of science in computer science degree since 2007 (one class at a time takes forever). I started taking classes remotely at a remote television site at my employer. I later left that employer and got a job somewhere that didn't have access to those remote television sites, so I started taking the classes online. Since I started, I'm now at my third company, and all three have been more than willing to pay for my courses. In fact, that's probably the most telling point for whether anyone is going to take your courses seriously: is your company willing to pay for the classes. My advice is only take classes from a public or private university with a real physical campus, and only universities you would consider attending in person if you lived nearby.
Now, having taken courses remotely for several years, let me forewarn you about online learning:
Now going online also puts you in the driver's seat when it comes to choosing your institution. You get to pick from many more universities than are likely to be proximate to where you live. You can watch lectures multiple times, rewind to the part where the prof started speaking gibberish and watch it until you understand what the heck he's talking about. You can also choose a university where the courses are taught by professors and not TAs. I've had all of my classes taught by the professor. If you choose to pursue a degree either in person or online, good luck!
Re:Professional Engineer stamp is the way to go. (Score:4, Insightful)
Disclaimer: For mechanical engineers, I personally think that getting a PE often is a good move.
However since this is Slashdot, I would argue that for computer engineers this is not always true, or at least the easiest thing to do in the United States.
While completing college, I took and passed the Engineering-In-Training state exam for Electrical Engineering. I then worked for several years with various employers, some of which had PE's above or adjacent to me in the hierarchy; others of which did not.
The electrical engineering exam for PEs seems to be bending-over backwards to reverse the small percentage of licensed EE's relative to other disciplines. When I looked into this a year ago it was possible to take a purely computer-oriented exam without a lot of the power, electromagnetics, and other topics. The state certifying board where I currently live seemed more than willing to consider justification statements proving that work I did while not under the supervision of a PE could be credited as work experience.
At the time I also was a member the local NSPE/state society, attending meetings with lots of other PEs, and being flooded with offers of legal and civil engineer training courses.
But I never could get PE certification before my EIT expired. The catch was I could not find enough PEs that would be willing to sign of on me as a personal reference, largely because most felt uncomfortable with their knowledge about what I had done.
And since there are so many exclusions to when you can use the term "Engineer" without a PE in most states, I ran out of PEs to ask.
For Mechanical Engineers getting your PE often can be a good thing. But for Electrical Engineers and Computer Engineers especially it can be a chicken & egg problem.
Re:Professional Engineer stamp is the way to go. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mod parent up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Correction: you grew up a douche.
Seriously, someone who summarily dismisses someone for going to college is worse than all the cocks who dismiss people for not going to college.
Re:Then **you're** naive! (Score:2, Insightful)
Right, and this is why Europe's economy is just decimating the US economy?
Re:Managers like you are the best. I love you guys (Score:0, Insightful)
In my experience, self-taught, uncredentialled programmers have an aversion to reading and learn by copying and pasting samples and looking things up on the fly. They are script-kiddies with very little perspective, but since they're "self-taught", they're egomaniacal. If someone highly respected recommended someone self-taught, I'd interview him. Otherwise, his resume goes into the trash no matter how many years of CRUD "experience" he has.
Re:Been there done that (Score:3, Insightful)
In my capacity as someone with a real degree who occasionally reviews resumes, I blackball people who try stunts like this. The engineering profession has no use for this kind of unethical person.
Re:Then **you're** naive! (Score:5, Insightful)
Dumber than a pile of rocks. Somehow, the removal of all government regulation and control will lead to a paradise?
You realize we had that here in the United States at one point? In the romanticized Old West, John Wayne's character - the irascible lawman - won out over the evil gunslinger. In actuality, whoever had the most money (firepower) did whatever he wanted. Somewhat later, the now-idolized robber barons (Carnegie, Rockefeller) ensured that anyone who didn't play along with their goals starved, while those that did play along were effective slaves.
The reason your great-aunt didn't die of starvation: government (pretty common 100 years ago). The reason your cousin isn't in debtor's prison: government (again, pretty common not that long ago). The reason that the average lifespan has increased from ~50 to ~76 in the past 100 years: government.
If you want to live in a libertarian paradise, move to Somalia.
Re:old college system sucks for on going education (Score:4, Insightful)
Spot on.
My brother and I are 18 months apart. I took on IT and he as a carpenter.
At 40, he has over taken me.
I *was* on 200k+ for 10 years but couldn't handle the pressure. He runs his own biz, take his own jobs and just grinds along. Cruises. A small biz and he kills me.
He has no degree, no BA/MA, no MBA, no PHD. I have most, plus appallingly good experience in the industry, but cant get a job...... He can spend 20k and get the best tools in the biz.
He says he can't keep up. Can't get enough people. Turns down jobs.
Makes me wonder why the hell I've done what I have. 40, I'm over the hill. 40, he has just started!