Ask Slashdot: What's Your Beef With Windows Phone? 1027
First time accepted submitter occasional_dabbler writes "Reviews by 'commentators' such as this one predict certain doom for both Nokia and Microsoft on the basis of the OS being a failure, yet whenever the Lumia handsets are reviewed in the mainstream press they are often highly praised. Windows phone is an immature OS, certainly, but it does pretty much everything you need in a smartphone, is getting better with each update and it is beautiful. I have a Lumia 800, and now I'm used to how it and the WP OS works I find it a painful process to go back to an Android or iPhone for some obscure app not yet supported on WP. WP gave me the same feeling I got when I bought my first iBook, fired up OS X 10.1 and realized I had just been shifted up a decade. So why so serious? What do Slashdotters who have really tried WP think of it?"
Finish it already. (Score:5, Informative)
People like a phone OS for what it can do, not what the next update promises to bring. Then there is the issue of Apollo even being able to run on current hardware.
They don't work with their own software... (Score:5, Informative)
How about the fact that getting a Windows phone to work with an exchange server is slightly more painful than shooting yourself in the dick?
A small business that is using a self signed certificate might as well cross all windows phones off of their purchasing options forever. And don't tell me, "Oh they should just get a real certificate." because YOU don't get to make that call and neither do I. The client does and they say no.
iPhone? No Problem. Android? No Problem. Windows Phone? Export certificate from site, email it to yahoo or gmail account FROM a yahoo or gmail account because outlook/exchange refuses to allow you to mail a cert, then import it, reboot the phone, and HOPE that it works. I just got finished dealing with one that didn't work. We renewed the cert, and now the thing is just shitboxed. Can't get it to accept the new cert at all.
How the fuck hard is it to add a "Accept this certificate anyways?" option...
Windows Mobile Ruined It For Me (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, I get my info from the commercials. If I don't like those, why would I try it in a shop. I think that is rational,
Not my list but.. (Score:5, Informative)
No real improvement over Android (Score:5, Informative)
There are several aspects of WP7 that I want to like, and on the surface should provide a better experience than other phone, but none of these things live up to their promise. The hubs are a good example.
From a user interaction point of view, I think the hubs are a really cool idea, and a better way to organize data. But the concept falls flat because there is no way for third parties to create hub "plugins" for other data sources, so you are limited into the ones that come with the system. Because, of this you end up accessing some people/music/pictures/etc through the hubs, and some through individual apps, which really isn't any more convenient than just doing it all through individual apps.
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:4, Informative)
But it's not really rational.
WP7 is an odd duck because it has to be used to be appreciated. Static photos in ads or quick passive clips on TV aren't enough to really get you to understand what's going on with the phone.
It also takes a little bit of time to learn, because it's not just a copy of what already exists everywhere, it's got a definitely new design and philosophy... an interesting and modern one, imho.
But the small investment you make to "get it" seems worth it to me for the most part.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, I've heard plenty of bad word-of-mouth reviews from regular users on Windows phone too, the most prevalent complaint being that it is slow.
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:5, Informative)
Lack of apps.
Difficulty of porting apps from other phones
Horrible networking APIs
Not open
From a company with a history of screwing people
Prefer a simple feature phone.
"Windows phone is an immature OS"
Any of these are valid reasons to not like the phone. They might not be good enough reasons for YOU, but they are for a lot of people. But I guess you got an opportunity to hate slashdotters?
It's like being teleported back in time (Score:5, Informative)
I carried a Windows Phone in place of my usual Android device for about 45 days at the start of the year to understand what the experience was like. My take away is that while it is a serviceable OS, it still has many of the shortcoming that the other smartphone platforms have grown out of. Also, it occasionally errs on the side of "pretty graphic design" over usability. I wrote up a full article on my experience here: https://plus.google.com/100566622327534003774/posts/RyT3Ajwd1GX
Re:They don't work with their own software... (Score:1, Informative)
I don't think the previous poster knows what they're talking about. My WP7 works flawlessly with my corporate Exchange Server (and the company issues iPhones by the way - I prefer my WP7 phone). I entered my user credentials once to set it up and haven't had so much as a hiccup...and I get push mail whereas my coworkes using iPhones/Android phones have to sync regularly to retrieve messages.
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:2, Informative)
It's not an irrational rabid hate. It is a hate borne out of 20 years of shitty products, aggressive business practices and all around bad behaviour.
Re:I don't have a beef with one (Score:3, Informative)
I think the intent of the OP was to get feedback from "Slashdotters who have really tried WP".
I love it (Score:5, Informative)
But back to windows phone, I suspect the reason I feel so differently about it compared to most Slashdotters is my needs are very different. I don't want to root it, I don't want to hack it, I don't want to tinker with it and mod it; I have plenty of other toys and gadgets I root/hack/mod (including other android devices). I just want a phone that works as advertised and doesn't get in my way. It makes calls (brilliant call quality on the Nokia hardware by the way), takes pictures, connects to all my social networks, connects to all the services I use, and allows me to download apps.
My choice was really down to two: iPhone or Windows Phone. I ultimately chose windows phone because of Office integration, Xbox integration, large screen, and the UI. iOS is nice and all, but it's starting to feel dated and I like the hubs concept in Windows Phone a lot more. With the latest release of iOS they're adding a lot more integration with services, which is something Windows Phone has had for a while now. Further the gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous Lumia hardware made the choice easy. This phone is really stunning, especially with the OLED display. I don't care that it's low resolution, it looks that amazing.
I ultimately didn't choose an android phone because of my experience with them in the past. While I never owned owe for my personal phone, I've used models like the Atrix and various tablets for my work. I found the UI gernally inconsistent and laggy, the apps weren't of the best quality comapred to iOS (I should mention I also own an iPod touch and iPad, and my girlfriend own an iPhone which I've used extensively), and the integration with services I use was lacking. In all, there just wasn't anything that "special" about Android if I didn't want to use it as a development device. The hardware variety is nice, but I also get that in Windows Phone. Actually, I view Windows Phone as sort of a middle ground between the totalitarian iPhone and the free-for-all Android. I don't want either, and that's why I think Windows Phone fits me best.
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:5, Informative)
Here's some irrational hate for you based on my use of a Lumia 800 Nokia gave me for free.
1) i cannot write software for it without a license to develop, because the phone is locked down
2) once i write something for it, it cannot share that code with my friends even if they also had a windows phone, because the phone is locked down
3) the phone cannot work as a usb drive, it is locked down and can only sync data via closed protocols or closed applications
4) the battery drains very quickly, this is just a problem for this model
5) there is no decent browser on the phone, it has internet explorer that does not handle many of the basic things a browser should do like implement createElementNS()
6) i cannot write c++ code for this phone, this phone need C#, or javascript or maybe some other CIL based programming language
7) this phone is product of a company with a very bad track record which uses the profits of its other monopolies to bully itself into this market
8) because windows phones are so locked down, like apple devices are, they are the bringing about the end of digital freedoms for consumers
9) the phone is riddles with licence agreement and dialogs that want you to give away all your data. for example, the first time you run Internet Explorer on Windows Phone, it will ask you: "Do you want to share you browser history with Microsoft so we can [...]? {YES) (CANCEL)." The use of 'CANCEL" implies that IE wont start, thus bullying people into clicking YES.
As a Free Software and more generally digital freedoms advocate, many of the problems I have with windows phone, I also have with iOS, which is shiny and has a nice UI but also a horrible lock in model and many features that cannot be modified.
I have been using a Nokia E75, a N900 and an N950 as phones and they are all pretty nice, but not perfect, but neither are any of the closed alternatives. For any future phone I might buy, I will go with openness primarily. That means the phone should be able to run an open version of Android, Mer, maybe Tizen or the Mozilla phone operating system.
Is there anything positive about Windows Phone? Not really. It is not that much different or better than the alternatives. It has a home screen, you can put widgets on it, it has an app store. Nothing revolutionary there.
Re:poor (Score:4, Informative)
Also Nokia had some very good smart phones in the works and then they were dumped in favor of this new system. Financially it make no sense to drop a phone that was ready to be released and to start over. Plus there's this idea that because Elop was from Microsoft that there was something fishy going on in the decision process.
Nokia covers a lot of grounds as a company more than just the tiny smart phone market. But it was losing out to the basic phones from cheap (price/quality) phones from China. It did have a good networking division but split that off into Nokia-Siemens (sheesh, Siemens and then Microsoft, they really do seem to pick the worst partners to get into bed with). I'd put about half the blame on changing markets and maturing competition and half the blame on poor leadership.
Re:They are freetarded (Score:4, Informative)
You can't really claim that, and forget that it's Microsoft's "patent licensing" deals that are causing that to happen.
Re:Microsoft destroyed linux on cellphones (Score:5, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy [wikipedia.org]
During the period from 1936 to 1950, National City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack Trucks, and the Federal Engineering Corporation—bought over 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities including Baltimore, Newark, Los Angeles, New York City, Oakland and San Diego and converted them into bus operation. ...
GM and other companies were subsequently convicted in 1949 of conspiring to monopolize the sale of buses and related products via a complex network of linked holding companies including National City Lines and Pacific City Lines. They were also indicted, but acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of these companies.
Re:It's from Microsoft and this is Slashdot... (Score:4, Informative)
Other replies have mentioned Microsoft's products.
I'll mention their business practices. If you lived through the late 80's and all of the 90's and early 2000's then you saw firsthand. The litany of ways Microsoft has treated others very badly is far too long to recite here. The dirty and slimy tricks. The lies. The FUD. It goes on and on.
If someone repeatedly tries to destroy things related to your livelihood then you might have an emotional reaction to that. The hate is not entirely unjustified.
Re:Not my list but.. (Score:3, Informative)
For instance, here are a few I know are false or are just padding the list:
False - 21. The idle screen is completely blank and cannot display time or notifications.
False - 22. Only photos allowed as email attachments, documents not allowed.
False - 27. Cannot silence ringtone or alarm by flipping the phone.
Opinion - 28. Very limited customization option.
Unknown - 29. Cannot be upgraded to WP8 (Apollo)
False - 31. Taskmanager has no option to shut down apps you don’t want running in the background.
Flase - 33. Lockscreen need to be activated to show missed call/sms notification.
Opinion - 35. Tiny fonts in messages is very hard to read for those over 45.
False - 36. Cannot create and save playlists on the phone.
False - 42. Online and phone contacts are mixed together with no ability to filter.
Fasle - 50. Apps are listed alphabetically with no way to group by category.
Opinion - 83. Oversized fonts for headings waste screen space and result in low information density
Fasle - 93. Call history does not show the time of call for calls older than current day.
False - 94. Cannot set custom sounds for different types of notifications.
App - Cannot backup your contacts or sms to PC.
False - 100. Cannot change alarm ring tone
False - 103. Zune does not allow user to add or update podcasts directly from the phone
False - 105. Alarm does not revert to speaker if headphones are plugged in.
False - 112. Embedded images in emails do not download
False - 117. Cannot be charged up when battery is completely dead.
False - 119. No HDMI output
Many of the other ones seem nit-picky and are limitations other platforms like iPhone have. I'd like to come back to this list after Apollo is launched to see how many can be scratched off though.
Re:uhhh... (Score:5, Informative)
Fitts' law (often cited as Fitts's law) is a model of human movement primarily used in human–computer interaction and ergonomics that predicts that the time required to rapidly move to a target area is a function of the distance to the target and the size of the target. Fitts's law is used to model the act of pointing, either by physically touching an object with a hand or finger, or virtually, by pointing to an object on a computer monitor using a pointing device. It was proposed by Paul Fitts in 1954.
(See wikipedia article for equation.)
From the equation, we see a speed–accuracy trade off associated with pointing, whereby targets that are smaller and/or further away require more time to acquire.
In a single menu at top of screen, each menu column can be activated by a quick careless mouse/pointer move to the menu word, without the need to use fine motor control to slow the pointer to hit a vertically narrow menu word. At top of screen, the menu word's active region effectively extends arbitrarily up off the top of the screen, so the menu word is a big, easy to hit object on screen. Faster to get to, requires less (ultimately tendon-destroying) fine motor movement to finish the movement. Depending on the app you're using, you might be able to leave the pointer near the single top menu, also helping with Fitts' law optimization of the movement to the control.
Re:Hate to say this, but... (Score:5, Informative)
I do have mod points and I *could* mod you down... but for what? I see no intentional trolling but I do see a lack of clear thought. Let me help you:
As an anonymous coward already said, you are paying for the shit on the phone. There is a certain expectation when it comes to paying for things. Concerning Linux and associated software, not having certain functionality does indeed push me away from using a particular piece of software... but I am paying nothing. Why should I whine or cry about it? This is probably where someone might see you as trolling because you are oblivious to the types of expectations based on the type of transaction. Oh well.
I may as well take this moment to answer the question posed by the "article".
WinCE was crap. Windows Mobile 5.5 was crap. I see many difficulties in windows that should not be there... so what exact motivation is there for me to spend my money on a phone operating system written by Microsoft. Honestly, I feel an aversion to using anything Microsoft because of the lack of reliability as perceived by me.
I have heard rumours that you can leave Windows Server up and running without reboots indefinitely like any *nix type operating system has been able to do since day 1... but every server I have ever dealt with was more reliable if it were rebooted weekly; even though monthly mostly works too.
On the bright side, it appears that Microsoft spends a lot of money on quality control... I just wish they would spend money on buying the highest quality developers and getting the fucking politics out of the development and design processes.
Re:uhhh... (Score:4, Informative)
Your model is too simple. What tends to happen is the person looks at the menu bar to search for the item they want as they move the mouse, and time taken to look is the limiting factor. Having the menus near the area you are working in is faster. In testing there is no speed benefit to having the menu bar at the edge of the screen because people aim for it with precision as they would aim for any other item on the screen instinctively, rather than ramming the cursor to the top of the screen as you suggest.
The single menu bar also has a major disadvantage - it combines system menus, application menus, system icons, notifications and the clock. The first two in particular are placed together on the left, not clearly separated. Having individual menu bars keeps everything neatly grouped.
Actually there is one other big disadvantage with a single bar. When you are not focused on an application you can't see its menus. I usually have a few apps on screen at once and it would be really annoying to have to select one before being able to see its menu, let alone select an item from it.
Re:uhhh... (Score:5, Informative)
, but every UI study I've seen shows it's faster to operate than one-per-window
Then the UI studies are, frankly absoloute crap. If you've ever tried to use a mac pro with dual 30" cinema displays, you realise that it is an awfully long way from one corner of the screen to the manu bar on the other corner of the other screen.
It was a great design on a mac classic, where the screen was small. It's a reasonable design on even a mid sized screen. On a large multimonitor setup, it sucks.
Re:Not my list but.. (Score:4, Informative)
i'm looking at my 800 and it's completely blank. what they mean with idle is NOT the lockscreen, it's the idle screen. take a look at some non wp nokia.. you can have time there, even when it's sleeping.
28 is an opinion but it's true. afaik 36 is true too.
and why does the 800 say "attach to computer if you want to sync podcasts" when going to podcasts if you have no podcasts? also making playlists is unintuitive, but there's couple of those which you need a manual to do.