Ask Slashdot: Buying a Laptop That Doesn't Have Windows 8 570
First time accepted submitter Sagan's Pie writes "I'm starting to look for a laptop for college, and the only thing I seem to find are laptops or tablets that have Windows 8. I have used Windows 7 for a long time now, and would not have a problem giving it up, but not for Windows 8. After visiting many major online retail sites, I've found that finding either a Windows 7 laptop, or even a laptop without an operating system is nearly impossible. So where should I go if looking for laptops sans os, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"
Try NewEgg (Score:5, Informative)
NewEgg still sells Windows 7 laptops. Go into the laptops/notebooks section and enter Windows 7 as a keyword. Some of the units that come back are refurbs, but some are brand new.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Insightful)
Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Or check out this site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop [ubuntu.com] .
Uh. . .I'd be careful with this. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively for years and have had no serious problems UNTIL I tried to log into the online portion of a course via McGraw Hill Connect. The log in screen bounced me out for no other reason than because I was using Linux. The ironic part is when I found a way in that bypassed the courses official log-in screen, the online portions ran just fine.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Interesting)
Theoretically, a website shouldn't even know what OS you are using. It is more likely to be looking at which browser you are using via the user agent, and sometimes this can be a giveaway as to which OS you are using (e.g. you are probably running Linux if you are running iceweasel). This user agent field is changeable to whatever you want, it is usually there to help web servers send you stuff that is going to work in your browser. Usually websites either give you a version of their website that is customized for your browser or some generic default if they don't recognize the browser you are using. Maybe the McGraw Hill Connect website is just written sloppily and it is rejecting your user agent. Depending on your browser, there is probably a way to change it. There may even be a way to change it for just that one web site.
There is also a possibility that you are using a browser that is blocking popups by default. Some websites assume you are using IE and therefore likely have popups enabled. This is kind of dumb, because I am not even sure IE allows them anymore.
Re: (Score:3)
UA string change extensions aplenty.
For the bludgeon method: Windows Firefox running in Wine. It thinks it's on Windows, the site thinks it's on Windows, luvverly.
Re:Is it normal ? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net]
Windows 8 is fine, its pretty fast, and with one simple third party UI extension is actually usable.
Re: (Score:3)
Do you find it normal to whine about features that are no longer useful? Is your desktop really that barren of frequently used program icons that you must use the start menu functionality more than a handful of times a week? Are your most commonly changed settings that far away when clicking the charm menu vs start/control/subgroup/etc? Did you even try to find out if there might be other alternatives in place like... ctrl-x? Or just right clicking over the mini-start screen in the bottom left corner?
I
Re:Is it normal ? (Score:4, Insightful)
The start menu is vastly, vastly better for multitasking than a desktop: the desktop is already hidden by the programs that are already open, and I don't want to have to go back to it just to open a new program.
So no, I think the Windows 8 UI is a stupid attempt to bring a user interface that is okay for the tablet into the desktop/laptop space where it absolutely does not belong.
Re:Is it normal ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you find it normal having to re-learn how to do stuff with your pc because the OS producer needs to make his products unique so you have more trouble using the alternatives? Every 3 years?
Re:Is it normal ? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, wipe and reinstall win7 is not cheap. Windows 7 is not given away, and if you don't have an old non-OEM version hanging around it will cost you.
Really the reason so many people have Windows is because it comes free or close to free with computers. If people ever had to pay full non-OEM prices then it would die quickly.
Re:Is it normal ? (Score:4, Funny)
Agreed... In general sticking to whatever OS the laptop came with will give you the least amount of trouble.
...and will prompt many a Slashdotter to mutter, 'Turn in your geek card, buddy,' between sips of the mornng cuppa.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Interesting)
Except it is not always that simple. Supposedly there are already some laptops out there that lack drivers for Windows 7. The number of incompatible laptops will increase as time goes on.
There is also the problem of support. Vendors may refuse to support your hardware if it does not have the factory provided OS or software on it.
And on top of that, you would be paying for an additional windows license.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, it can be a pain in the ass to get the laptop working the way it was when you change OS, all manufacturers have laptop specific software that may or may not run on different versions of windows correctly. I wouldn't worry about drivers just quite yet, give it a year.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If the device you buy has Windows 8 Professional, you automatically have downgrade rights to Windows 7 Professional. It's been in place on the Professional Windows versions since Windows XP. Get Windows 7 install media, call Microsoft and they provide a license.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:4, Insightful)
"You should be able to find the drivers for your mobo, gfx card, soundcard, nic etc direct from the pages of those manufacturers. Not as straightforward as slamming in the recovery disk but I doubt the hardware on new laptops won't support Windows 7."
That's just it - the hardware supports Windows 7 just fine, but releasing customized versions (the customizations are necessary for things like battery life optimization) of Windows 7 drivers is expensive and time-consuming... many manufacturers simply won't bother unless they're still selling the same hardware with Windows 7 anyway, or offer an official downgrade option (like Dell or Lenovo on their business models)...
If you just download a generic driver from Intel/nVidia/ATi, you usually won't get everything your hardware has to offer - be it things like OSDs for display of volume/brightness or battery life (example: Installing straight-from-manufacturer [i.e. all original Intel drivers] on a Thinkpad instead of the Lenovo-customized drivers will reduce your battery life by about 40% - it's a *huge* difference).
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:4, Informative)
No windows 8 there.
However, on a more serious note...you could get a nice macbook pro....and install VMWare on it...and get a OEM copy of Win 7 (I still seem them on newegg for a decent price)...and run it in a VM.
This combo allows you to have the best of all worlds on one computer...OSX, Windows (your fav. flavor) and Linux...etc.
That's actually the route I went.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:4, Funny)
LOL
in my last job I asked for a Mac Pro because I wanted a *nix workstation that wasn't Linux. Because if it was Linux I'd spend half my time messing around with customising it. OSX is so amazingly uncustomisable I'd have to focus on my work. And its *nix under the hood and a great powerhouse workstation.
That's like gluing your Lego together.
Re: (Score:3)
LOL
in my last job I asked for a Mac Pro because I wanted a *nix workstation that wasn't Linux. Because if it was Linux I'd spend half my time messing around with customising it. OSX is so amazingly uncustomisable I'd have to focus on my work. And its *nix under the hood and a great powerhouse workstation.
That's like gluing your Lego together.
So it doesn't fall apart. This is work.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Informative)
From what I understand that will depend on the UEFI implentation of the Windows 8 machine. That may no longer work depending on the manufacturer.
If you can't disable secure boot you won't be able to even install Windows 7, much less my preferred Ubuntu.
Re: (Score:2)
Screw that, if they start locking the bootloader, I'll buy an Ubuntu laptop first, and install WINE, or possibly windows 7 :)
Re: (Score:3)
pretty much all of them will boot win7. every one of them that wouldn't are still slashdot story worthy.
that's of course unless the poor sob is stupid enough to buy a windows rt machine... ms is really digging a hole with their approach to this whole mess - but all in the name of pushing their appstore.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Informative)
All Win8 machines that have the "designed for Win8" sticker are required to have the ability to disable UEFI Secure Boot.
Re: (Score:3)
That is true that Microsoft does have that as their requirement for all x86 machines. ARM is not that case at all, and you can't turn secure boot off at all.
There is nothing that I could find requiring it to be easy. What if you have to contact the company and request it? I see no reason they couldn't do that. (That's a similar model to what the OLPC people did). It's not so hard to fathem that they don't bother if you have less than 100 machines...
That's why I said "depending on the manufactuer".
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:4, Interesting)
you can disable UEFI in the bios
Huh? UEFI is what new machines have instead of BIOS.
Some older designs have UEFI with a bios emulator (like InsydeH2O), where you can turn off UEFI boot and rely on BIOS boot only. But that depends on having a BIOS or BIOS emulator in the first place, which is no longer a given.
What you might have thought of was turning off UEFI secure boot, which is what prevents you from installing operating systems without a secure key that the UEFI manufacturer knows and allows. Which again may or may not be possible, depending on the model.
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Informative)
Buy a computer that has the specs you want. Then wipe the hard drive and install Debian. Return the Windows 8 license for a refund. Problem solved.
Re: (Score:3)
Buy a computer that has the specs you want. Then wipe the hard drive and install Debian. Return the Windows 8 license for a refund. Problem solved.
Even if this ploy is successful --- it's a perfectly ridiculous waste of time and money that will net you next to nothing.
Microsoft has released licensing rates for OEM Windows 8, including US$60-80 for Windows 8, US$80-100 for Windows 8 Pro (with Office) and US$50-65 for Windows RT (with Office), according to Taiwan-based notebook supply chain makers.
Microsoft unveils Windows 8 OEM licensing charges [digitimes.com]
Then there is the small matter of warranty service and technical support.
You purchased a system with hardware, software and drivers certified for Win 8, remember. Diagnosing and repairing problems associated with any random --- and customized --- Linux distro was not part of the deal,
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Funny)
Typical internet advice:
Q: "So where should I go if looking for laptops sans OS, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"
A: "Buy a laptop with Windows 8, then..."
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Try NewEgg (Score:5, Funny)
We just bought eight Toshiba Satellites with Windows 7 installed. Funny part was they didn't even ask if we wanted Windows 7. It wasn't until they were just about to ship it that my rep called and said "I forgot to ask whether you wanted Windows 8 or not." I imagine they're getting so few business customers wanting Windows 8 it slips their mind.
did i end up on Ehow.com ?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Get out of the stores with 3 choices, perhaps?
here
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-G4-2149se-Butterfly-Blossom-Design-Laptop-PC-with-AMD-A6-4400M-Processor-and-Windows-7-Home-Premium-with-Windows-8-Upgrade-Option-bundled-with/21191020 [walmart.com]
Newegg had 144 hits (lots of refurb, but better than craigslist suggested below!) on win 7 home premium alone.
Dell, Tigerdirect, even Walmart all had them.
I think this was meant to be posted next year...... ...and all those refurbs will still be there, even if new isn't....
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
People buy laptops from Wal-Mart? Does it really matter at that point what's on it?
Re: (Score:3)
The questioner didn't say where he lives. Novatech do OS-free laptops in the UK. Yodobashi and Sofmap still do Windows 7 and even a few no-OS models.
You can also just buy a Windows 8 laptop and wipe it immediately, then claim a refund for it.
apple.com (Score:2, Funny)
See comment subject. Doesn't come with Windows 8. Guaranteed.
Re: (Score:2)
True. It comes with uncredited BSD Unix instead.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Only problem with apple.com is they sell computers that have been empirically found to be of inferior in quality to cheap OEM's like Asus and Lenovo, and yet cost a lot more than (almost twice as much) the more expensive OEM's like Dell. Asus and Lenovo also give you a better warranty for free (Asus warranty even includes free accidental damage for one year in addition to the standard two year warranty.)
Re: (Score:2)
And if his applications run on a Mac vs a PC.
and
Also yes he could run Windows 7 on a Mac, but if he is looking for a laptop with Windows 7 on it then he may not be able to afford an operating system separate from the computer at this time.
Re: (Score:2)
Huh? Maybe 10%?
But if he's in the market for a $400 laptop, then Apple makes no such beast.
Re: (Score:2)
Why not? Granted, I'd mod it up "+1 Funny: Smartass" rather than "Insightful", but it is technically a completely valid answer to the guy's question.
Re: (Score:3)
system76 (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.system76.com/
Re:system76 (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/laptop-computers/
Good deal, you can choose Windows 7, or "No operating system required" to spare 79 pounds. I have one for six months, serves me well with Debian Wheezy on board.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm typing this from a recently purchased System76 Gazelle laptop, and the experience has been good so far. I am coming from running a Macbook Pro, which I had for several years. The mac was a nice machine, but have been getting creeped out by Apple's apparent slow drift towards the "post pc world". My iPad feels like a jail (perhaps more a luxury jail, but a jail nontheless) since I can only run what Apple allows, and I don't think I should have to jailbreak my own computer to gain proper control over i
MacBook or Dell (Score:5, Informative)
Get a Macbook and then put Windows 7 on it.
Dell also has a Windows 7 [dell.com] page.
I'm sure any business-friendly vendor will have the same if you poke around.
Re:MacBook or Dell (Score:5, Interesting)
Replying to myself... Dell links to Windows 8 laptops from their Windows 7 page... ugh.
Still, they have Windows 7 laptops:
XPS 13 [dell.com]
Their m5030 is in the stores.
Latitude 2xxx
Latitude E5xxx
Go to their Business site [dell.com], select laptops, and check the box for Windows 7.
Re: (Score:2)
eBay, Dell Outlet (Score:2)
spring to mind immediately...
Dell.com (Score:2, Informative)
You can go to Dell.com and they have the option to build your own laptop with the OS you want.
Just use windows 8... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just use windows 8... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just use windows 8...Pirate 7 (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure Microsoft isn't just working to get paid twice?
Once for the Windows 8 license that the oem pays for and once for the Windows 7 that the customer puts on it for twice the price the oem paid for Windows 8.
So screw that, the pirated copies of Windows 7 are getting much better, just go with that.
Re:Just use windows 8... (Score:5, Informative)
I've been using windows 8 for a while (got it for free) and I'd have to say it is far from a "hunk of crap". Yes, metro sucks, but you don't have to use it, which is what GP suggests.
Some things I like about 8 are this: reduced memory/disk footprint, easier access to commonly used functions (mouse to the far bottom left, right click; works with start8 too, though some start menu replacements disable this useful feature) more efficient copy dialog that even shows instantaneous rather than average transfer rates (pretty nice feature to have, yet shockingly windows 8 is the only OS that does it) better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.
If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.
Re:Just use windows 8... (Score:5, Insightful)
reduced memory/disk footprint
Wait, what? Smaller disk footprint? [superuser.com]
better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.
With windows 8, you need to add the start button on your own. I'll take the start button over some little-used run cmd as admin anytime.
If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.
I have a better idea. Instead of we the end user put up with Microsoft's crap just so we can give them feedback, why not just give them feedback by not purchasing it at all.
Is that Stockholm syndrome I smell?
Re: (Score:3)
GP mentioned Start8 for a reason.
Re: (Score:3)
I have no problem doing that. I wasn't the one with the problem.
But I still find the effect jarring, and seeing as there is absolutely no advantage to Windows 8 on the hardware I currently own, I don't see any need to subject myself to it.
Re:Just use windows 8... (Score:5, Funny)
Tim Cook? You're hardly a disinterested third party. :)
Re: (Score:3)
Are you using Start8 or Classic Shell? Both have options to disable the charm bar.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I hear a nuke from orbit is fairly effective. Haven't had a chance to try that yet.
Have you actually looked? (Score:3)
Downgrade Rights (Score:2, Insightful)
Windows 8 licensing includes downgrade rights. If you have the key and a Windows 7 disk you can re-install to Windows 7 with minimal problems. Double check to make sure this won't void your warranty though, if you care about that.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Downgrade Rights (Score:5, Informative)
That has nothing to do with using downgrade rights. You have to get downgrade media from the OEM, however.
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx [microsoft.com]
Re: (Score:3)
The problem is, then Microsoft will not only count you as a Windows 7 customer/user, but also tally you in as a Windows 8 customer/user. Even if the entire reason for choosing to downgrade was to not have to touch (or count yourself as a user of) a steaming pile of shit in the first place. You're better off just getting a system with Win7 and not helping to improve Microsoft's Win8 stats. The next best solution would be to get a system with a "no OS" or "FreeDOS" option and getting a retail Win7 disc to
Another alternative. (Score:4, Informative)
http://zareason.com/ [zareason.com]
Lenovo (Score:5, Interesting)
Buy in the small business section (Score:5, Informative)
The big PC maker's online storefronts have a consumer and business section. Your milage may vary but the business section of say, Dell or Lenovo, tilts towards good build quality, OS flexibility, and less crapware. Finding a Win7 machine is no problem at all.
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x230 [lenovo.com]
Windows 7 vs Windows 8 sales (Score:2)
It would be interesting to see how sales of Windows 7 vs Windows 8 compare. So many chairs would be thrown if it was discovered there were a sudden uptake in business class computers with Windows 7.
But since the submitter didn't seem to know they still exist, it would seem Microsoft is doing a good job trying to erase Windows 7.
Clevo / Sager (Score:5, Informative)
Do you use the start menu often? (Score:4, Insightful)
I never do.
Really, the biggest change in Windows 8, is that I have to press the windows key when I login. Nothing else really changed in the OS for me. I still just hit win+r for the "Run" prompt, or click a shortcut in the number of places I've aggregated them that make much more sense than Win 7's start menu layout. I got Windows 8 because it was just $15 for a valid windows license.
I'm in full agreement that there's no reason to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 8. But if you get windows 8, it's not the end of the world (unless you're really married to the start menu). Or hell, if you really need the start menu, just go download it and install it. If you're on slashdot you should know how to do this. This askslashdot is kind of a no-brainer.
Re:Do you use the start menu often? (Score:4, Insightful)
*eyeroll*
Ctrl-Esc does the same thing. You just don't get the Windows-key shortcuts that you've been missing all these years, like always.
Amazon (Score:3)
I'll reiterate Newegg, and add Amazon.com. Their list of top 10 selling laptops for Christmas, none of the top 5 were Win8, and all of those models are still for sale.
Check the custom builders (Score:2)
Builders such as Digital Storm, iBuyPower, and CyberPower PC among others still make build to order laptops with your choice of Windows 7, 8, Linux or even the option to leave the Hard Drive blank.
System76 (Score:4, Informative)
Thinkpad (Score:5, Interesting)
Get a Thinkpad. I just got a W530 [lenovo.com] with a 1920x1080 screen, one of the few you can find outside Apple. It has great Linux support [linlap.com], even down to the silly fingerprint reader. I can easily get 7 hours or so on the battery with the recommended tweaks. There's a whole wiki just for Thinkpad stuff [thinkwiki.org].
It ships with Windows 7, but you never have to boot into Windows. You can blow away the whole drive, "recovery" and "boot" partitions, and never look back. It has a conventional BIOS in addition to UEFI (disabled by default; leave it that way), so you shouldn't have any issues there.
It's a tank, it's not terribly sexy like an ultrabook, but it's great if you want a desktop-fast Linux-friendly workstation laptop.
Re:Thinkpad (Score:4, Informative)
What's your opinion of the new keyboards
I think the new keyboard is still great, easily better than any other on the market for a laptop. Response is great, a nice tactile feel. Keys are 95% size IIRC and no problem to type on. I type quite a bit - just finished my PhD thesis - so I probably know my keyboards better than most. I do have a couple IBM M series full-size keyboards (with trackpoint, of course) that I use for heavy-duty typing but there are times when a silent keyboard is called for and the T510 is great for that time.
My only complaint on the keyboard is that the finish leaves something to be desired. I have naturally oily skin which seems to eat the finish off fairly quick. My left mouse button, for example, looks quite a bit older than it actually is. I do keep a silicone skin on my keyboard most of the time, FWIW.
If so, any opinions as to changes in quality, keyboard or otherwise?
All in all, I would say my T510 is still a great unit. Hardware wise my only gripe is that this particular model (or any T510) doesn't have the ultrabay, and hence is limited to the system battery (though I do have the 9 cell). I can also tell you I have dropped my thinkpad from table height - while running - more than once already and that has caused absolutely no noticeable damage whatsoever to any part of the system.
DreamSpark (formerly MSDNAA) (Score:4, Informative)
Another option is to install Start8 from Stardock or similar, if it is the new interface stuff you don't like. I found Windows 8 quite likable with a proper start menu.
PCs For Everyone (Score:2)
I've gotten one computer from them, and it was a mostly decent experience. (The card reader didn't work because of some weird incompatibility issue. I've forgotten the details now so i can't say if the problem was "obvious" enough that they should have warned me about it when i put the components together.)
A friend of mine has gotten a couple computers from them. One of them ended up having a flaky hard drive or something that was causing her some aggravation, but they see
Windows 8 is not a big deal. (Score:3)
Alienware (Score:2)
I know of the top of my head that Alienware laptops still come with Windows 7. Possibly others too.
And as many others have pointed out, get Windows 8 Professional and use your downgrade rights. You just need Windows 7 Professional media and you can install it instead. (You want to reinstall any laptop yourself anyway so its clean and without bloatware and factory provided viruses.)
New? (Score:2)
With that being said, all of you people who buy new PC's all of the time: please keep doing so! Your purchases allow me to always have access to a strong, steady supply of very, very cheap computers. I don't remember paying more than $200 for a desktop, or $500 for a high end laptop in the last ten years, thanks to your generosit
Botique Manufacturers (Score:2)
I'm a notebook fan - need the portability for various reasons - and have bought from a few places.
If you want Windows, try Velocity Micro http://www.velocitymicro.com/ [velocitymicro.com] and look into their NoteMagix line. I just checked and you can pick between various Windows 7 and 8 flavors.
Or perhaps Sager Notebooks http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.php [sagernotebook.com] I bought a gaming notebook from them 3 years ago and it is still going strong (although I upgraded it to Windows 8 and swapped the HD for an SSD since then).
Or try System
SD, FW, and Outlets! (Score:2)
As great as the 'Egg is, they tend to be overpriced for everyday purchasing.
If you can wait:
My best suggestion is to get an account at fatwallet (a coupon/deal aggregator and forums site), and set up a "topic alert" where you get emails sent to you whenever a good deal with a specific keyword (I used "i5" as well as "14" "14.1" for my keywords for my last lappy). Also frequently visit slickdeals as they have a nicer layout and faster response time for sales of limited quantity.
It's usually these deal aggre
MacBook Pro (Score:2, Offtopic)
Refurb from eBay (Score:2)
Some great deals can be had on refurb'd demos or off lease units for a fraction of the price of a new machine.
All good quality laptops last many years at this point, so wouldn't worry about lifetime.
But I would put in an SSD post haste.
You can't (Score:4, Funny)
and your IP has been reported to Balmer. ;)
If funds permit buy a WIn 7 Oem Disk (Score:2)
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=45271&vpn=GFC-02050&manufacture=Microsoft&promoid=1312 [ncix.com]
Or just f'ing use Win 8... (Score:3, Insightful)
Windows 8 not much different (Score:4, Informative)
I agree (Score:4, Informative)
What with doing Windows support for a living I use the new and old Windows versions all the time. I run 8 at work, 7 at home. 8 is fine, once you get a start menu back. Start 8 is my favourite, costs $5. Start is Back costs $3 and actually restores the Windows start menu, the code is still in Win 8, at least most of it. Classic Shell is of course free and works fine, I just don't care for it as much.
One that is there, it works real well. It is fast and stable, and it has some improvements I like, the new task manager is quite nice.
It isn't worth rushing out to upgrade, it isn't OMGbettar than 7, if you have 7 stick with it. However it isn't problematic. It runs every program I've tried on it that also ran on 7 (and I've tried a lot) and it isn't problematic to use.
For that matter even the new start menu is perfectly usable, it is just more clunky than what it replaced. It isn't hard to use, just slower and inelegant. Perfectly usable though, we leave it on the 2012 servers we have.
Before you ditch Windows 8 (Score:4, Interesting)
Buy direct - Dell, Lenovo etc. still offer Win7 (Score:2)
Buy direct with customizations.
Last I checked, you could go and build a Dell laptop and choose Windows 7. You may have to use the business line of laptops, but they all give that option.
And there's always Apple. Who I think still only provides Win7 drivers - I'm not sure they've got a huge demand for Win8 (though people have done Win8).
There's also a bunch of smaller builders who do Linux PCs...
Ubuntu.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem Solved!
Simple Fix (Score:3)
1) Buy the laptop you want with Win8 on it.
2) Download Classic Shell
The only big interface change is the Metro Start Menu. everything else in desktop mode is what you know from Windows 7. If you don't want to deal with Metro, Classic shell will get rid of that for you.
Just wipe the thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Just Kill Metro (Score:3)
If you just disable Metro and get your start menu back with Start8, RetroUI, Classic Shell, or other options, you've got Win7 with a few nice upgrades. It's not worth a lot of effort or extra money to stick with Win7 (though if you can for the same price, go for it) Nor would I suggest most people pay the upgrade price for an existing Win7.
I do this at work - nobody even notices except one of our IT guys when he saw my lock screen, which looks a bit different under 8. More to the point I can swap back between it and Win7 machines and not even care or notice except that Win8 has a nicer copy/move box.
Re: (Score:3)
Personally, I find Windows 8 to be ugly. It looks horrible compared to Windows Vista/7, Mac OS X, GNOME/KDE/Unity, etc.
Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8? (Score:4, Informative)
Everything in Windows 8 looks like they are just single-color HTML <div>'s with some margins splattered around.
Compare also the boot logo of Win7 [blogspot.com] to the amateurish logo of Win8 [neowin.net].
Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8? (Score:4, Informative)
Why does everyone seem to forget that god damn "Charms" bar and those fucking Metro-style system notifications when they try to claim the Windows 8 desktop is no different than the one in Windows 7? Or the lack of start menu which requires third-party programs to bring back, unless you want to deal with that shitty start screen designed as the basis for Metro and an interface for touchscreens? Or the fact that they literally gutted core Windows system dialogs and replaced them with Metro versions? Windows 8 is far from being "not much different" than Windows 7.