Ask Slashdot: Wiring Home Furniture? 235
b1tbkt writes "So it seems that furniture manufacturers have not yet acknowledged the realities of modern life. Kitchen tables could benefit greatly from built-in concealable receptacles. Even more obvious is the need for electrical wiring in couches and coffee tables. I realize that there are safety (fire) concerns but as it stands most families that I know already have power cords for laptops, tables and phones draped over, under and through their couches at any given point. If someone wanted to wire their furniture with AC or some type of standardized LV DC system, what are some dangers to watch for and what, if any, specialized hardware exists for the purpose?"
Easy (Score:5, Informative)
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Google "countertop pop up receptacle" and you'll find many choices.
Too bad the top 5 results are for link farm crap, and the sixth is for this very article...
Then again, I included the quotes. Without them, the query is much more fruitful.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Even better with safesearch turned off!
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I also suggest visiting your local college or university library. They're probably already using this stuff, and will have solutions for both power and data in-place. Take a picture of what you like and look for it on those manufacturers' product catalogs.
Re: Easy (Score:5, Interesting)
Or back these guys
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1704062015/nuplugtm-the-most-convenient-outlet-for-your-smart?ref=card [kickstarter.com]
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Re: Easy (Score:5, Informative)
Or walk around an IKEA. There's plenty of existing furniture that does the job.
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Mockett has been producing products like that for years. Not identical, but designed to be built into furniture.
Re: Easy (Score:5, Interesting)
I use a similar, but cheaper, soulution. I bought ordinary power strips that have little holes in both ends (for hanging from hooks, etc). Then I attached them with screws to the underside of my desk and kitchen worktable. There, they are always within reach, while out of sight and safe from spilled liquids.
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Was going to post that link. It's a friend of a friend's project. It doesn't perfectly solve the problem, but it's getting there.
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Not even an outlet, just an extension cord and surge protector shaped like 2 outlets.
I've got a surge protector under my desk that cost less (and one behind the tv, and . . .) came with more outlets, and USB plugs, a known rating for maximum surge stopped, and it even has fairly standard holes on the back to mount to exposed screw heads. Like telephones, surge protectors have has these holes on them for years; people just don't use them for mounting purposes.
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Dude, it's $29, not $50.
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Those would be terrible in practice though - crud would accumulate in the ridges, and it would get in the way when you want to do something wherever it is.
Flush ones would be the way to go.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Informative)
Counter top outlets in general are a bad idea.. If they're on the surface, they're bound to get something down in them.
Every kitchen I've seen has plenty of outlets along the walls, and some on the vertical side of cabinets...
As for sitting furniture, it's an amazingly bad idea. I'm just picturing a couch.. Kids spilling drinks. The dog pissing on it. Toddlers finding amazing new places to stick metal objects. Hell, drunk friends spilling drinks on them while watching football or in the case of this audience, playing a heated game of D&D.
If there isn't a wall outlet close enough to where you (he) wants them, have one installed. Contractors are more than happy to install anything you want within the guidelines of local building codes.
For the furniture manufacturers, they become stupid additions to their line. If they sell internationally, they'd need to offer all the different outlets. If the consumer chooses not to use them, now the customers have the annoyance of dead outlets.
For movers, they no longer are just skilled at moving heavy objects from Point A to Point B, they have to be electricians. That's assuming they're to be hard wired, and not just plugged in somewhere.
And never leave it to the consumer to consider the total power load on a circuit, they'll always get it wrong.. I can just imagine an entire livingroom with a couch, loveseat, and other assorted chairs, all plugged into one outlet strip on one socket, with god knows what plugged into every outlet. They already fuck it up bad enough with chained outlet strips on poorly designed home wiring..
When we have some extra cash to bring a contractor in, we're going to have a good bit of our home rewired. Despite a couple dozen circuit breakers in the box, half the house is on one circuit. At least we're aware of it, and are careful not to overload it. As I've found over the years, this is normal. It's like the construction crew waits for the inspector to sign off on the electrical, and then throws everything else on one long circuit.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
As for sitting furniture, it's an amazingly bad idea. I'm just picturing a couch.. Kids spilling drinks. The dog pissing on it.
The kids will never learn, but I wager the dog won't piss on it more than once.
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, but how is the dog supposed to pass that knowledge onto its successor?
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Well, there may be no need depending on the severity of its first experience.
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Yeah, but how is the dog supposed to pass that knowledge onto its successor?
Through the Baldwin effect, presumably.
The first few inches are (Score:4, Insightful)
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Personally I'd think a 20VDC outlet would satisfy power needs for most laptops out there. Or if you wanted to be really safe, require laptops to run on 5VDC. Then you could just use a USB style charger. Granted you'd have to up the current limit.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
GFCI does okay until the entire outlet is soaked. Then it's useless as fuck for protection.
I can see these mounted on a couch or table getting fully-soaked no problem.
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Except its the current thats more dangerous in this situation than the voltage.
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Yes, and that's why they got taken out of the electrical code a long time ago.
That's why outlets are supposed to be every six feet, so you're not running cords under all the furniture.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Outlets are supposed to be every 12 feet, not 6 -- that's the same "thinko" i did while building (self) my house. The code actually says no more than 6 feet along any wall (i think the wall has to be 4 feet or longer) to a receptacle. This has the goal of making appliances with 6 foot cords work from any point along the wall.
When I built my house, I was frustrated with my previous 1960's house that had 2 receptacles per room. I said, hell with it, code says 6 feet, I'll make it 4. Note that thinking CORRECTLY, that would have made it 8 feet between outlets.
It wasn't until I had run wire and boxes to 3 rooms that I realized I'd been wiring for 4 feet between boxes. I laughed my ass off and said fuck it, wired the entire house that way... 115 receptacles later, I was done :)
AND THERE'S STILL SPOTS I WISH I HAD A RECEPTACLE AT! :)
Re:Easy (Score:4, Interesting)
AND THERE'S STILL SPOTS I WISH I HAD A RECEPTACLE AT! :)
This is why you run wires in conduit at a uniform height in every wall: knock a hole at the right height, put in a new outlet. You may have to pull new wires to get sufficient length to make the connection, but you can pull them in from whatever's on the other end.
The only thing you have to worry about, practically, is amperage load per line, so you don't end up with too many outlets on a single set of wires.
This is similar to the idea that the streets should have utility tunnels, rather than buried pipes, so that you can run new cables, fiber optics, waveguides, or whatever technology we haven't thought up yet, without tearing the streets to crap. There are new subdivisions which have this type of infrastructure, but cities are generally too stupid to do public utility reworks this way (or too smart; union payola?) since if you are trenching and cementing anyway, the biggest cost is in the excavation, not the materials. Redwood City, California is actually doing this type of work right now for access to the light rail, and it's the right way to do it for a 25% additional marginal cost.
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... run wires in conduit at a uniform height in every wall ...
OK, I'm confused. Is the conduit running horizontally through the wall? And then you reach through the new hole in the wall to tee into the conduit?
I'm not aware of anything UL listed / permitted by code that works that way.
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OK, I'm confused. Is the conduit running horizontally through the wall? And then you reach through the new hole in the wall to tee into the conduit?
I'm not aware of anything UL listed / permitted by code that works that way.
No, you:
1: Cut the conduit to run it into the outlet box
2: Pull new Romex from the endpoint box, and use a portion of the wire, using the existing Romex for the pull.
3. This gives you enough wire on both sides to go into the outlet box. You DO NOT TEE.
4. As long as you are not putting boxes closer than 24" on either side of the wall (fire issue), this is fine.
5. This complies with 2011 NEC (National Electrical Code) requirements
So your assumption about T-ing things, at least without a junction box, is a br
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Huh? What does 300.18 got to do with this situation? Raceway is complete, but then you modify it and it is again complete before you pull new wire through it.
I do agree about the 24" spacing not being an issue in single-family residential construction.
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
Running a conduit horizontally in a wall decreases the stability of the wall. Electricians are very wary of doing that.
Whereas drilling a hole and just running a 12 gauge Romex through it horizontally makes the wall more stable?
The ability to do horizontal runs is why there exist "wire protection plates" / "conduit protection plates. Obviously, you do not want a large number of horizontal holes in load bearing 2x4 walls, but then that is why you use 2x6 for them instead of 2x4, at least for stick-built houses. If you use metal studs, they typically have either punch-outs, or just have pre-punched holes (depending on brand) that line up horizontally.
Almost all plumbing off a vertical stand-pipe requires horizontal holes through the studs, particularly if you are going to a "free standing" or "pedestal" vanity, so that they water cut-offs and hookup pipes are not in the open, and they don't end up looking like hell. Anyone who doesn't hide this stuff in the wall is someone who is either flipping the property, or really doesn't give a damn because they plan on renting the property.
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You might want to consider conduit in future. It's ugly but you can reconfigure it easily to add, remove or move sockets. You can get it in the shape of skirting board (or kick panels or whatever they are called in the US) which can look reasonable in a home, or DIY your own version.
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> When I built my house, I was frustrated with my previous 1960's house that had 2 receptacles per
> room. I said, hell with it, code says 6 feet, I'll make it 4. Note that thinking CORRECTLY, that would
> have made it 8 feet between outlets.
1960's! Oh the luxury!
My house was built to the 90s codes...that is... 1890s. Original lighting in the house was gas lamp. A friend of mine, was at his grandmother's house up the road and was messing with an old gas lamp fixture and found....it was still connecte
Re:Easy (Score:4)
Either "electric furniture" is your new business model (yikes!) or don't do it, ever.
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"I work with licensed sound engineers, gaffers, and A/V techs all the time...we get loads wrong all the time, and we're trying to do it right."
You're working with the wrong people, for one, for load balancing.
They're called ELECTRICIANS - something your sound engies, gaffers, and A/V techs very likely don't hold a certification for, let alone completed their journeyman's studies and time.
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Hence, the comparison to someone getting back from Ikea with an electric couch and setting it up with... instructions in Swedish?.
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I still work in the field as a rigger/climber/rope access/electrician.
Anyway flat out amazed with the occasional siting of some idiot tieing the hots in first. Or gawd forbid not confirming that the ground and neutral are not marked as a hot at the other end. I hear of that more often than i would like to.
Nice to see i have some brothers on this forum.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
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Or just stop buying laptops, cell phones and tablets with crappy battery life. This is what happens when people buy 17" laptops with quadcore CPUs, power-sucking dedicated graphics and end up wanting to use them on the couch... or when they buy a tablet with less than 8 hours of battery life. It just shouldn't be done...
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They all have crappy battery life. It may start at 8 hours, but after a year it'll be down to 1 hour.
Most of my friends have viable home laptops with no remaining battery of which to speak. And these were solid industrial models. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced?
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"They all have crappy battery life. It may start at 8 hours, but after a year it'll be down to 1 hour."
Now that's a huge exaggeration... I've had my Galaxy Nexus for about a year, and the battery life has not been diminished significantly.
"Most of my friends have viable home laptops with no remaining battery of which to speak. And these were solid industrial models. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced?"
Just stick in a new battery... that's the whole point of buying "solid indust
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Stop treating rechargeable batteries as eternal - they aren't and nobody promised you any different. Most of them last for a really long time but they are still just consumables. If your laptop can't hold it's breath for more than 1 hour, get a new battery.
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They all have crappy battery life. It may start at 8 hours, but after a year it'll be down to 1 hour.
Most of my friends have viable home laptops with no remaining battery of which to speak. And these were solid industrial models. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced?
You mean the battery loses most of its capacity in a single year... WTF are they doing to those things?
I have a 9 year old laptop with a 17" WUXGA display which we use every day with near maximum brightness. When it was new, it could go for about 3 hours on a charge (fairly old CPU and battery technology, 'nuff said). Nowadays, it still gets better than 2 hours on a charge, and it's still using its original battery. So in 9 years of extensive use, both on AC power and battery power, it has lost about 30%
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Linux may have worse power management than XP (especially if the manufacturer provides efficient Windows power management drivers, such as ThinkPad), but at least it uses the hard drive much much much less. And this alone should help to increase the practical usage of the battery capacity.
Batteries are supposed to be replaced (Score:2)
Most of my friends have viable home laptops with no remaining battery of which to speak. And these were solid industrial models. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced?
No, it means they need to fork over the $ for a new battery which is normal for a laptop. Rechargable batteries only have a finite number of cycles in them and the ones in laptops typically show signs of wearing out after 2-3 years, less if the battery is used heavily. I've never seen one older than 3 years that held anywhere near the charge it did when new. Presuming the battery will last the lifetime of the computer is incorrect.
This is why batteries need to be serviceable. They do not need to be hot
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That's because you probably did some research before you bought it. I'm also typing this on a 15.6" FullHD machine with 16 gigs of RAM, an SSD and a HDD and I don't plug in during the day - ever.
Most people, however, end up with a non-switchable GeForce or Radeon and wonder why they're only getting 3 hours of battery life from a 95Wh extended battery...
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There is a reason my most furnature isn't teched up.
Longevity, most good furnature is meant to last for years and possibly be passed down to generations.
Technology gets old fast and the latest and greatest, is usually that much better.
Just think about it this way. If my parents had a digital countertop in the 1980. It would be a vt100 terminal either amber or green screen. And would need 9 or 25 pin serial cable to a PC. And a bulky keyboard.
Who knows what will be around in 30 years to make our slick multit
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Yeah, we should actually just stop thinking altogether and let google take over
Google "Google's plan to take over the world" and you'll find much information.
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I tried that, and was disappointed.
Not that I expected some evil overlord-esque document to popup or anything like that, but I was kind of hoping it was one of Google's easter eggs.
Maybe returning some kind of reference to Pinky and The Brain...
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That's what always happens with safety technology: People get reckless. The purpose of a GFCI isn't to allow you to spill water on a power socket. It's to prevent injury and death in case of an accident. It's not an accident when you put in a countertop socket where people will regularly handle liquids.
A few things to watch out for (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A few things to watch out for (Score:5, Informative)
Heats not really a concern as far as flamability, even a 25A 208V circuit pulling 120% of rated load doesn't get over 110F (don't ask how I know this). The only way you're going to introduce enough heat energy to cause something to burn (especially furniture which is doused in flame-retardant chemicals thanks to smokers) is to short something out, so your comments about making sure that chords are protected is spot on.
Re:A few things to watch out for (Score:5, Funny)
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Heh, try pulling that kind of amperage through a cheapo 18-AWG extension cord and I think you'll find that heat very quickly becomes an issue, and with only a little patience you'll have your even more exciting short-circuit to deal with.
Which leads to my own bit of advice - if you're going to stick a cable inside a piece of furniture where you can't monitor it for developing flaws, make sure to use a much thicker cable than you think you'll ever need, because sooner or later somebody is going to plug in an
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Also, stranded wires are generally to prevent metal fatigue, and due to the fact that the individual strands aren't insulated, act as a lower capacity solid core conductor as there are holes inbetween the individual strands if you look at it from a cross-section
Re:A few things to watch out for (Score:5, Insightful)
That's only when everything is in good condition. Lot of house fires are started by degraded wiring. Anything that thins the conductive material or loosens a connection can increase the resistance at that spot so it will get hot enough to start a fire the next time someone uses a power hungry device such as a vacuum cleaner. As long as there's nothing flammable nearby, it may not cause any harm, but if this wiring is in a couch, could be a serious problem.
All kinds of things can degrade the wiring. Ants, especially fire ants and now these crazy ants can chew the insulation, and build nests. I've seen an outlet stop working because the home's foundation had cracked, and shifted the walls enough to pull the wires out of the receptacles on the outlet. Also, builders almost always do the cheapest, shoddy electrical work code and inspectors allow them to get away with. Fortunately code is pretty strict these days, but it wasn't always. Then there's the do-it-yourself home owner who is completely ignorant of code and decides to add some extra lighting or a ceiling fan. Must watch out for older homes. One will find circuit breakers that were poorly designed (Stab-Lok models, for instance), outlets that were never properly grounded or that are near sinks and bathtubs and lacking GFI, and wiring run sideways through the walls or that has no slack or is too close to something else such as a fireplace's chimney.
If we want to wire up furniture, it will take some effort to do it safely. We've dealt with safety by simply keeping electricity away from flammable material and water.
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That's the big one... Your local building code is almost certainly not identical to mine. Well, unless you live within just a few miles. There are federal, state, county, and sometimes city codes.
If you look at the instructions for anything electrical at home improvement stores, there's always a blurb that says have a local contractor who knows the local codes do the install.
There was a particular type of insulation I was using for a project. It was a roll of foi
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Building codes are one thing - we do all still live on the same ball of mud. Codes are variable depending on what kind of accidents a given local government has seen, but safety around electrical wiring is an absolute, it does not change much with location.
You can still conform with building codes and do something completely retarded and potentially deadly, for a reference visit any unrenovated building built before 1950. And putting any kind of indentation in a countertop where you prepare food will turn i
Re:A few things to watch out for (Score:5, Informative)
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NEC code is based upon operation at 30 C (86 F). 110 F means exceeding the rating for the wiring insulation
If you know that temperature is an issue, you use a wire/cable with high temperature insulation. 60C insulation isn't uncommon, 90C isn't unheard of, and if you really need high temperature, there's wire rated for over 500C (but probably not cable).
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Re:A few things to watch out for (Score:4, Insightful)
That said there are many reasons why such things would not be standard. First is reliability. While furniture is often warranted for 5 years, electrical components is warranted are generally warranted for a year. This adds complexity and uncertainty. Also, furniture, even for Ikea, is meant to last for years. After 10 years, such configurations may seem antiquated and uncool, like a formica top.
Then there are liability issues that will occur when someone hooks up a power strip to the table. Sure fuses and the like can reduce the risk of fire, but it will only take one to bankrupt the company. So there is a non trivial risk.
So I would retrofit. Fot table conduit and hole saws will put as many sockets as you want. For sofas maybe just use a glue gun to attach a power strip to the bottom?
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"Rediculous"? One diculous wasn't enough, then?
Obvious need for couch wiring? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please elaborate.
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Please elaborate.
I'll take a wild guess: making your couch able to deliver a disabling high voltage shock (possible remoted over internet) just in case there's a break-in and the burglar sits on the couch (may also work fine for the case one's teenage kids bring their GF/BF when one's not at home and attempting someone doesn't approve).
Let me think... I reckon this pertains to the "in-depth security" topic (like in "implementing your defense under the depth of the couch's upholstery/pillows") - one can never be too cautious
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Also: Helping natural selection work.
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Also: Helping natural selection work.
Only if it happens before beta test stage. Otherwise, chances are stacked against victims that may not warrant an "early retirement from the evolution cycle".
Some furniture is already widely available (Score:5, Funny)
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Edison's electrified furniture was so good, it could handle an elephant!
I can't resist this old joke (Score:5, Funny)
...I made a chair for my mother-in-law once. .. My wife wouldn't let me plug it in.
Already exists in some furniture, but... (Score:4, Informative)
This needn't be complicated (Score:3)
Look at a Plugmold [legrand.us] or similar power strip, mount along the front of the couch. (Underneath, for aesthetic reasons.)
Something like this means you're not doing the wiring (if you were qualified, you'd just do it, rather than ask), all you need to do is the mechanical mounting (a few L brackets should do nicely).
Caveat: If you have small children about, this is putting outlets in their reach.
If you want something like this in a coffee table (or if your couch isn't against a wall), have an electrician install a floor outlet in an appropriate spot.
Take a lesson from science labs (Score:4, Informative)
The college where I teach just renovated its science center. I'm very happy with the tabletop power we have in our new physics classroom, and I think the "lessons learned" apply to a kitchen too:
Don't do low-voltage DC. It'll never be the voltage you want, and plug standardization is a nightmare.
Don't put outlets on the top of the table. You'll spill, drop crumbs, and ruin the outlets.
Think about spilled liquids. A lot.
Make sure you can move the table to the other side of the room without cutting wires.
Our new physics lab classroom has long, heavy wooden "butcher block" tables with a top that overhangs the edge by an inch. The outlets are on the front edge of the table, protected from liquids by the overhang. The outlet boxes run to a heavy-duty cable with a male plug on the end: you plug the tables into a recessed floor box.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately overhangs don't always protect you from spills. Liquid can cling to the underside. Even worse you can't see it happening from above.
Re:Take a lesson from science labs (Score:4, Informative)
and never ever have a receptacle in the floor, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
i was at a client the other day and the floor receptacle had a little spring in one of the socket holes,
You're supposed to cover floor outlets when there isn't something plugged into them, for exactly that reason.
All the floor outlets I know of come with integrated covers of some type. Example [wikimedia.org]
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maybe they had spring loaded covers.. just sayin'.
Search a little harder... (Score:4, Informative)
Coffee Tables - http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/13-high-tech-coffee-tables-for-the-geeks/ [gizmowatch.com]
Kitchen Table - http://www.sligh.com/home-office-furniture/Westlake-74%22-Dual-Purpose-Electronically-Enabled-Dining-Table-300BA-300/577 [sligh.com]
Mockett (Score:2)
At the office, we've retrofitted a few conference tables with simple parts from Mockett . Pretty straightforward stuff - cut the proper holes, drop in the receptacles, and plug them in.
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Mockett is just awesome. They have some of the greatest furniture-tech integration products on the market.
watch out for domestic animals chewing wires (Score:4, Insightful)
I had started to babysit a wonderful dog for a friend. The dog liked to sit under my desk when I was working. One day, my Mini wouldn't boot. Dog toothmarks were evident on the low voltage (thank heavens) side of the power block, making it pretty easy to troubleshoot. As he got used to his new surroundings, no further wire chewing, but it could have been a disaster for all concerned. My animal house friends tell me rabbits are the worst, like frustrated EEs with buck teeth...
Anyway, think about animals, little kids, etc. when you're electrifying your furniture.
Will be irrelevant someday (Score:2)
Some offices don't even bother with Ethernet cabling anymore; they just use WiFi. This was unheard of 15 years ago, when Slashdot users were no doubt grousing about their homebuilder's oversight for not incorporating Ethernet into their homes during construction.
I predict 15 years from now, the constant need to be tethered to A/C will be obviated, either through wireless recharging, through improved device charge capacity, or through increased energy efficiency.
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Some offices don't even bother with Ethernet cabling anymore; they just use WiFi. This was unheard of 15 years ago, when Slashdot users were no doubt grousing about their homebuilder's oversight for not incorporating Ethernet into their homes during construction.
I predict 15 years from now, the constant need to be tethered to A/C will be obviated, either through wireless recharging, through improved device charge capacity, or through increased energy efficiency.
Or the next GFC/Global Warning/Asteroid strike will have reduced us to scrabbling in the ruins for AA batteries to drive our Nintendos
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Or the next GFC/Global Warning/Asteroid strike will have reduced us to scrabbling in the ruins for AA batteries to drive our Nintendos
Don't lose hope. Just because the population of the earth is reduced to 500 million it doesn't mean the government black ops in their bunkers won't keep the power plants running.
It would require everything be custom (Score:2)
The thing about furniture is that its generic. Its not for you or your room or your precise purpose but for "someone" with "a room" that might want to do "something" with it.
That lack of specificity requires things be vague. Furthermore, there is an extreme emphasis on lowering initial cost as regards these sorts of things. And due to the way we manufacture things it is understood that after it has left the factor it won't be upgraded or changed or modified.
To get what you're talking about implemented you'd
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I know a nice example of existing art (Score:2)
easy (Score:2)
In kitchens, you use wall-mounted power strips. In living rooms, you use extension cords and (if really necessary) outlets concealed in the floor. If you really want it attached to the furniture, mount a power strip under the sofa/chair/table.
My dream (Score:2)
The reason I got into studying embedded systems is to work on ubiquitous computing:
-Put SoC's into everything;
-Hook everything to a hybrid cloud; (NaaS)
-Serve it with a cloud server at home; (RedHat OpenStack distro on Fedora)
-Create an XML-based protocol on top;
-Have it all talk to each other;
-Build it all on Minix 3; (so it never crashes and every device server has to be hacked seperately)
-Enjoy the shit out of modern life!
Your agenda (GTK HTML5 webapp) knows when you need to wake up and plays your most l
so do it (Score:2)
If it's such a great idea and no-ones making them, then do it yourself and get rich. I do think, however, that you'll soon realize that most couches are purchased by wives for reasons very different than utility... and the draping of the extension cords is done later by husbands thinking only of utility.
Re:Torts lawyers would greatly benefit (Score:4, Informative)
There's plenty of powered furniture available, and has been for decades. Those crazy "As Seen On TV" powered folding beds have been around for ages. My new couch has push button electric recliners. Most cars today have powered seats; many of those electrically heated.
The problem I'd have with furniture based power supplies is similar to the problem I have with built in electronics and adapters in vehicles. The lifetime of my furniture and vehicles greatly exceeds the probable lifetime of any consumer electronics power adapter installed in it. I used to work at a high end auto dealership. I installed dozens of iPod adapters (at around $400 a shot. Insanity!) and all of those adapters are worthless to the new generation of i devices that these customers are likely to have. Some of my customers had older vehicles with build in analog cell phones which are now junk that just rides around with them.
Furniture is even worse. Decent furniture should last a lifetime. By putting a consumer electronics power port into a piece of furniture you're basically admitting that it's going to be trash in less than 10 years.
Peter
Re: (Score:3)
Furniture is even worse. Decent furniture should last a lifetime.
Back in 1987, when I was in college, I bought a fairly cheap couch at JC Penney. Last year, I donated it to charity, as it was a little too worn for me and I didn't have a good spot for it anymore.
Among other things, that couch lived through parties every Saturday night for 4 years, and later had to deal with 70-150 pound dogs using it as a takeoff and landing zone.
Admittedly, all furniture was made better back then, but to get 25 years out of something that cheap says that if anything, your statement abou
Re: (Score:2)
+Tripping - it would be challenging to get power to the furniture if it is not against a wall.
Problem solved. [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
You could potentially supply power to something using a male to male cord
There is a reason such cords are reffered to as widowmakers.
If you really want multiple inlets then I guess you could use connectors where both sides are touchproof but even then there would be a risk if someone hooked up too cords to the same peice of furniture. At the very least i'd want to see padlocks and warning notices in such a scenario.
It's not exactly new, you know. (Score:2)
Re:Pointless article. (Score:4, Interesting)
For myself, the reason I don't buy furniture with this feature is that nobody offers it. Period. The problem with wall outlets is that they're all too often behind the furniture where people will be needing the power. So I end up with power bars everywhere, often attached permanently to furniture where power's needed.
You'll notice that in office environments all furniture is equipped for power. There's outlets in the floor, and every desk and counter and a lot of fixed tables have power bars along them or underneath them. My office desks at home have cut-outs for power and provision for attaching power bars. And everybody I know asks one question every time they're looking at a house: "Are the circuits 20A?".
Let me ask this: if nobody needs power outlets, why do power strips and boxes sell so well and why do so many homes have so many of them? Answer: because people need outlets that aren't 2-outlet wall boxes, and few people have the skills and the workshop to actually create furniture equipped for what they want so they cobble together what they need from what they can get.
Re: (Score:2)
Define furniture.
If you want all-wooden gear and solid plastics like you'd use in an office, then making room for a cable / box isn't difficult. Hell, computer desks have existed for decades. Look into schools, where they have some lovely (and ludicrously expensive) desking solutions for IT suites.
The problem is that most home furniture ISN'T like that. If it is wooden, it's quite ornate and not really suited to drilling huge holes in for cables and power strips. And the rest of it is fabric, leather, a
Re: (Score:2)
No competitor? hmm? Look around a little. Couches with USB ports in the arms, chairs with sound jacks, tables with eletric and ethernet jacks... They're not exactly common, but they're common enough that random high end european furniture stores in the middle of Boston and NYC have those.
Its not exactly the norm by any mean, but they're common enough that you stumble upon them just walking in a store.
Re: (Score:3)
That's why double-gang divided NEMA boxes and conduit exist. Build the plastic box and conduit into the furniture, ship it with both ends covered by screw-on plates, and leave it up to the end users to wire it as they please (a pair of outlets, a single-gang outlet plus a low-voltage keystone, or whatever).
With a divided double-gang box fed by separate 1/2" conduits, you can run just about anything. At the other end of one conduit, they could put a 15A 120v RV-type "inlet", like this one: http://inverterse [inverterse...center.com]
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with that is doing a hard-wired connection to a portable device. If you provide a plug for it instead, you have made an extension cord, which is classified by UL as temporary unless you get a field UL inspection.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. That is the biggest issue. You are creating a class of semi-portable device with ill defined interface with the permanent wiring system. There are ways to do it, but UL becomes quite a pain, and then the same happens for the local electrical inspector.
The only way i can think to make it work is to have a standardized class-2 (low voltage) power supply that is limited to ~75W. USB is only good for a maximum of 22W, which isn't nearly enough for many applications. FireWire goes to 45W, but it is d