Ask Slashdot: Exploiting 'Engineering And ...' On a Resume?
207
An anonymous reader writes "In my younger years, I was briefly employed as an Electrical Engineer. Since 9/11 I have been flying combat missions for the military. Since I now have just a little over a year before becoming a civilian again, I was wondering if any Slashdotters had any applicable advice/anecdotes. How does one effectively combine engineering/development with another professional skill-set? (Being a jet pilot in this example.) For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?"
go work for drone manufacturer (Score:2, Insightful)
go work for drone manufacturer
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
go work for drone manufacturer
Parent is spot on. You need to find organisations that are "military-friendly".
Generally speaking, the private sector don't like to employ ex-public sector workers (and vice-versa). You need to find a public sector engineering job or a private sector company that mainly does work for the public sector.
The fact you've been out there fighting a war that many people don't agree with isn't going to help matters much outside of the military, even if it is public sector. For example, I think you'll struggle to fi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong. Flying planes is not a very marketable skill; there's tons of pilots out there with FAA licenses looking for work. This guy doesn't have that: he's only trained to military standards, not FAA civilian standards, and has no FAA licenses at all. He'll have to go back to school and fly around in Cessnas to get those licenses. Granted, he'll be able to do it a lot faster than someone with no background, but the FAA hourly minimums are still significant, for instance 40 flight hours for the Private lic
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most of my time in the military was one of two extremes. Either I was working 12-20 hours a day until I was staggering and in a fog mentally or I was standing around waiting for something or other. It might be parts, tools, an engineer, or just another project. Not much in between. When we had something to do it was needed weeks ago and when we didn't we just fucked off.
Re:go work for drone manufacturer (Score:4, Insightful)
And when I retired in the late 90's, I heard exactly the opposite. The company (billion dollar multinational), and the CTO, that hired me told me specifically that they like to hire ex-military. I worked for them for almost a decade, and at least 1/3 the IT staff was ex-military.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly.
The military teacher leadership. Officers practice leadership. We have many ex-officers (is there really any such thing) at my company because the know how to navigate red tape, lead by example and get things done.
I've seen many fresh MBA brats crash and burn because all they knew was school.
Re: (Score:2)
Military tends to expect things done their way, without questioning or comment from their peons and tend to care more about processes than results (partly because when you're trying to make half trained recruits do things they don't really understand, detailed procedures actually can help). But that isn't an environment that fosters engineering talent.
Not all ex-military are like that, of course. But its a large subset, possibly a majority. I wouldn't refuse to hire ex-military, but I would consider any
Re: (Score:2)
Employee satisfaction and retention is important in good businesses. That doesn't seem to matter in the military.
Well of course not. In the military, you don't have to worry about your subordinates simply walking off the job when they're pissed off at their boss's inanity or the crappy workplace environment. In the civilian world, you do. (I speak as someone who did walk off the job one day when my boss pissed me off.) Walking off the job in the military means a court-martial. Doing so in the civilian
Re: (Score:2)
You're dead wrong. The military has to worry about both morale and retention, particularly in the enlisted ranks. Depending on the service+occupation, enlisted are on 2-6 year contracts. They are just starting to get good at their jobs when it comes time to re-up. Low retention = shitty NCO corps (middle and field management) plus a lack of skilled technicians, engineers, aviators, instructors, you name it. And there is a bit of a cascading effect as more junior members see talent fleeing.
Low morale al
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but it's not like every single officer shares this attitude you describe; I'm sure lots of them have the knuckleheaded attitude that people can't quit, so why bother being nice to them or worrying about making sure their jobs are rewarding? The way you describe it, it sounds like this has been a big problem in the past (which is why they're testing and adopting new management techniques), and the ex-military officers which the AC above complained about in the civilian world were probably guys who were
Re: (Score:2)
There have been a few big generational shifts. Officers who had to deal with conscripts definitely favored the stick over the carrot, but I think that mindset is largely gone these days. Most of the huge changes occurred in the 70s and 80s, so most senior officers these days learned more progressive management from the beginning. Of course there are some selection biases at play... officers who can't lead often find themselves entering the civilian workforce sooner and more often than those who can. The
Re: go work for drone manufacturer (Score:2)
Nonsense. The first job I got out of the army was at a hospital. They knew I had an OIF and OEF deployment under my belt. The person hiring either likes ex military or they don't.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Death from above, and I have the friendly-fire codes...who wants me?"
engineers with combat experience (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:engineers with combat experience (Score:5, Insightful)
The only tricky part is finding a job you will like.
I believe there's a rule in the US, wherein if someone likes their job that indicates a management mistake. Whenever my job starts to not suck, management messes with it so it sucks again.
Re:engineers with combat experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Whenever I find a job I like I bitch endlessly about it. I made a mistake once in telling a manager how much I loved what I was doing. Two days later they had me a new really shitty project and the bosses favorite bitch had my job.
Re: (Score:2)
The only tricky part is finding a job you will like.
I believe there's a rule in the US, wherein if someone likes their job that indicates a management mistake. Whenever my job starts to not suck, management messes with it so it sucks again.
No, you're confused. That's just BAD management! That's universal.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not really specific to the US, and it actually makes sense from a certain point of view: if someone is enjoying their job, they're not being squeezed as hard as they could be, thus you could make them do more and fire someone else. Of course you end up destroying motivation, loyalty and long-term productivity, but yo
Re: (Score:2)
ack, that's not true at all. The worst, least productive environments I have ever worked in has been based in bad management. The first was because the manager refused to be decisive and refused to delegate authority. He wanted to make the final decision but we spent weeks presenting the same data over and over and he never made a call one way or another.
The second was a political hack who did not understand large sections of the business a close friend of his put him in charge of, and so actively attemp
Badly! (Score:3)
Based on my experience (YMMV), corporations love consistency. Their recruiters are uncomfortable with varied background, because they don't think outside the box and don't understand that a person can do more than just the same thing for the entirety of their lives.
My advice: aim for startups. They're looking for skills rather than a consistent, tidy work background.
Re:Badly! (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice thing about military experience, especially military aviation is that they, too, love consistency. Follow orders, follow your checklists, get to work on time and get your job done. I would think that an HR drone would just love that sort of experience. They could check off a half dozen boxes right off the bat and maybe get bonus points for hiring a veteran.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Indeed. Wall Street should love the authors resume. The investment banking side of Wall Street loves people who can take orders and at the same time are good at math. All investment banks have a division that does defence related banking or public sector finance - apply there.
The sales side of the banks love a military pilot too. They probably expect someone who won't break the rules, is well dressed and can talk clearly over the phone. Don't under estimate the skills you learned talking on the headset.
Th
Re: (Score:2)
Agree with all of this. I'm an engineering manager in the subsea side of Oil & Gas. Our department has lots of ex Navy personnel, some of which worked on aircraft. There is a lot of overlap between our industry and the military (component / design redundancies, "just has to work" attitude, attention to detail). When I hire, this is the hierarchy I follow (assuming your personality is a match with our teams):
1. Exact experience with our niche industry technology
2. Some knowledge of our technology but ex-
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Based on my experience (YMMV), corporations love consistency. Their recruiters are uncomfortable with varied background, because they don't think outside the box and don't understand that a person can do more than just the same thing for the entirety of their lives.
Agreed. I've spent 1/2 my career as (primarily) a system/application programmer and the other 1/2 as (primarily) a Unix system administrator - usually alternating between the two. Invariably, whenever I apply for one type of job, the recruiter/HR person only sees the other type of experience and/or can't seem to understand that one person can do both things, often at the same time. Fortunately, it hasn't kept me from being continuously employed for the past 25+ years - or, perhaps, I've just been lucky.
Re: (Score:2)
Based on my experience (YMMV), corporations love consistency. Their recruiters are uncomfortable with varied background, because they don't think outside the box and don't understand that a person can do more than just the same thing for the entirety of their lives.
My advice: aim for startups. They're looking for skills rather than a consistent, tidy work background.
Unfortunately, hardware startups (the kind that would hire an electrical engineer) are scarce these days. There's also the problem that large companies look for experience with other large successful companies so choosing the startup route prematurely can bring difficulty later.,
Thank you for your service (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I'll third that - thank you!
I'd hire you just to hear your stories. I love planes and flying - especially fighters. If you read this, what kind of aircraft are you flying?
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously enough, to any engineer.
Accept the difficulty ahead (Score:4, Interesting)
Understand that, up front, you are going to have some doors closed to you simply because your job experience is over a decade old. It may not seem fair, but it's reality. Having said that, your military experience may very well open doors for you that other civilians wouldn't have a chance at, especially with stuff in the defense industry. I'd just state your experience and education, and let your resume speak for itself. Electrical Engineering doesn't seem like one of those fields that's constantly changing every few years, like IT, so your skill set should still be fairly relevant.
Re:Accept the difficulty ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that his current experience will be of even more use.
To the submitter: Consider working as a systems engineer for a defense contractor. Seriously. You have a metric crapload of relevant domain knowledge, along with a EE background. I wouldn't be surprised if you could write your own ticket.
Re:Accept the difficulty ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Quick follow up.
Systems engineers in this domain don't really do the "building" or even designing per se. Rather, they are the guys who set the requirements. And people like Boeing, Raytheon, LockMart and the rest all love former military because of the domain knowledge. The EE will allow you to inject a dose of reality into whatever specifications get written.
Re: (Score:2)
And people like Boeing, Raytheon, LockMart and the rest all love former military because of the domain knowledge.
They also love hiring former military because it plays well with the politicians that ultimately control their budgets.
I've worked a few defense gigs as a contractor and they were always sucking up - running food drives for military families and equipment collections for deployed soldiers - sending stuff like DVDs, insect repellent, socks, etc.
I thought it insulting - these billion dollar corps that exist almost purely to suck at the government teat running food drives for military families just to look lik
Re: (Score:2)
Depends upon where you work and the size of your projects, but I'd generally agree with this. I've been a Systems Engineer since I got out of the military and have been very lucky to be a hands-on type of engineer but the majority of positions titled as "Systems Engineer" are powerpoint engineers who do a lot of meetings and briefings and documentation. (My actual title is Electrical Engineer but I've only designed one circuit in the last 15 years...)
If you want hands on work, look for hardware positions
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Agreed, the best way to go is some place that is at the intersection of your skill set. If you compete against other candidates where the requirement (and your qualifications) consist of just "Electrical Engineer", you'll lose to somebody with more (or more recent) experience. But if the requirements include knowledge of flight systems, the military, piloting, etc. as well as Electrical Engineer, then you have a chance to stand out in a pile of resumes. All the same, don't forget to brush up on your EE fund
Engineering and.... (Score:4, Funny)
Engineering and....
Engineering and....
Engineering and.... smoking the reefer!
Come here (Score:5, Informative)
I work at BAE - if you're looking in the Boston area, this could be just the place for you.
We work on stuff for UAVs, planning systems, EW, etc.
If you're interested, get me a resume and I can float it around. We're not doing a lot of hiring right now, but we have a bunch of ex-military folks who are real happy here.
No joke - let me know.
Re:Come here (Score:5, Interesting)
This guy is probably a good bet. I used to program flight simulators and getting someone "smart" who could also work as a test pilot when final testing would be hired instantly. Most test pilots I worked with were more interested in hitting the bars at the end of the day then tedious test flights, but they were still needed. If you can find who makes the simulators for what you currently fly, my bet is they would hire you on immediatly. In addition if you can do the electrical work for the hardware between testing, all the better.
BAE bought the place I used to work. They have locations all over the place.
Re: (Score:2)
I work at BAE - if you're looking in the Boston area, this could be just the place for you.
We work on stuff for UAVs, planning systems, EW, etc.
If you're interested, get me a resume and I can float it around. We're not doing a lot of hiring right now, but we have a bunch of ex-military folks who are real happy here.
No joke - let me know.
Careful, cowboy. It's generally unethical to approach guvies with job opportunities while they are still guvies. The whole conflict of interest thing is pretty serious.
Re: (Score:2)
email me br4nm4n@comcast.net and lets see what I can do.
Re: (Score:2)
email me br4nm4n@comcast.net and lets see what I can do. But don't be anonymous!
The resume is written for the job and type of job (Score:5, Insightful)
Therefore, how you should present X on your resume depends entirely on what job you're seeking. Since you gave no clue what job you're trying to qualify yourself for, there's no way to answer.
For example, if you were applying for a job where they are looking for someone who is obsessive about getting every detail exactly precise 100% of the time, such as "nuclear powerplant _____", your resume would indicate that you operated a $30 million plane precisely, delivering your payload with pinpoint precision, where the consequences of error were literally life and death. You'd point to similar aspects of your engineering work - blah blah 6 nanometers blah.
If you're going for a position where the big deal is leadership and chain of command, tat would be a completely different presentation of your experience.
Re:The resume is written for the job and type of j (Score:5, Interesting)
Grab a friend who knows you well (and who doesn't run you down just for grins.) Have some food, and a couple of beers (or split a bottle of wine) and meanwhile brainstorm and jot down all the possibly applicable experience you can think of. Also, and maybe more important, talk about the things that you are really good at - not just skillswise, but what kind of person you are and what you excell at. And then think of stories that really illustrate each of those.
Have fun. Be silly. No one should try to do this stage of resume writing alone, generally speaking we're all far too trained to discount our skills and put ourself down. Aim for ten pages or so of semi-coherent scrawl. Don't try to edit, editing is easy, and it's for later. Getting enough material down in the first place is what this is about.
And then, a few days later, come back and prune. This isn't time to prune super heavily - what you're looking to create is a superset resume - more than you'd sent out for any one job, but containing most of what you'd send out for anything. Keep in mind that a resume isn't just about skills, it should be about what kind of person you are and what you're like to work with. There are a lot of formats out there, but don't be enslaved to them - while it should be tight and professional, a resume isn't a form application but a creative document that should present you in the best light. (It should go without say that lying is incredibly stupid.) I do strongly recommend looking at it in terms of narrative - whatever you want people to know about you, include a (briefly worded) story that demonstrates it.
Not only does this make resumes more informative, it makes them a heck of a lot less boring. (When I was doing hiring, reading resumes was often tortuous, because they didn't tell me most of the things that were most important, beyond some basic skills lists that weren't that reliable.) Make a resume that represents you well - because you want the manager you absolutely would hate to work for to look at it and say "I don't want this guy" just as much as you want the right folks to recognize you. Truth in advertising is a good thing.
I concur with what a lot of people are saying. I'd look at Boeing if I were you (a friend designs flight simulators for their military aircraft - I suspect you'd do well in that kind of environment). (For that matter, my former father in law - also a Boeing engineer*flew planes for the airforce for many years and eventually ended up at Boeing. I almost managed to get him over to Microsoft when I was there, on Flight Simulator.)
I'd also do what you can in the intervening time to brush up on skills that are going to support the direction you want to go in from here. Start reading up on security. Pick up a new language. Buy yourself a bunch of toys off sparkfun. What people are saying about your skills being out of date is possibly a problem... if they are, in fact, out of date. So make sure they aren't. It sounds like you have a lot going for you, especially with a little polishing and fine tuning.
* Hey, I grew up in Seattle, what can I say?
Re: (Score:3)
This is great resume writing advice! Thanks for sharing that.
Also, don't forget the clearance! Even when you're not trying for a job the requires it, having a clearance denotes a certain level of reliability and responsibility that employers want to see and if they're looking toward work where clearances might be needed, it can give you/them an edge, which they'll like.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, grammar fail on my part!
I was at Microsoft, we were trying to get him over on to Flight Sim, but that was not where I was ;-) (I mostly worked on high capacity internet servers and distributed systems.)
Depends where you're applying (Score:2)
If you're going into the aeronautics industry, you should be able to easily sell the fact that you have a pilot's understanding of airplanes.
If you're applying somewhere where your piloting experience wouldn't be relevant at all, then don't mention it other than in your employment history.
Applicable skills (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Make sure you include "Destructive testing of competitors' products" as part of your skillset.
Destructive testing of competitors as part of your skillset.
FTFY
Re: (Score:2)
By the way, congratulations, and welcome home.
Be creative (Score:3)
If this mutt: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57591030/probe-irs-contractor-won-up-to-$500-million-in-questionable-bids/ [cbsnews.com]
can claim to be a disabled vet because he hurt his ankle in high school at a prep school then the sky is definitely the limit for you.
Seriously though as others have stated your resume itself isn't nearly as important as who you send it to. You have a rare combination of skills (engineering, military, jet aircraft etc) and there are small set of companies that would give you a serious look regardless. It doesn't have to be all drones and DoD type companies, NASA and commercial engineering firms would be as well.
Apply to Boeing, Raytheon, etc. (Score:4, Interesting)
BTW, at this time, skip any work on human rated aircraft, save commercial. If you are going to work in aviation, then focus on drones, and services. There is little doubt that the feds are going to have to cut back in various areas. And that means that they will cut back on everything except for drones and the 2017 bomber. You MIGHT want to throw your lot in with something like the X-48. That is perfect for many things, such as the 2017 bomber, but also fire fighting, tankers, etc. And firefighting is going to be important with all of this beetle killed pine in the west.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And on the drones, think about getting your flight instructor ticket. Our flight program here at hte community college I work for is exploring offering drone training, and I heard the other day from someone else that teh FAA is thiinking about a drone certification. If you can get in on hte early education side, you'll be set.
Did you say you have a skill set? (Score:2)
Or was that a kill set?
Simple (Score:3, Troll)
Say you're from China and you'll work for half price. Instant hire.
American "employers" get sexual pleasure from denying jobs to Americans.
Re: (Score:2)
saving money (Score:2)
Just some thoughts - not authoritative (Score:3)
With that sort of background you're probably going to have a big bag of experience to draw from, and selectively emphasize on a resume. You're probably going to want to think about where you want to take your career, what industry, what general type of job, and highlight those aspects of your experience. For example, trying to move into civil aviation to continue as a pilot would mean stressing the actual aviation aspects of the job - aircraft qualifications, flight planning, flight time, instrument qualifications, etc. If you wanted to move back towards engineering, you've probably conducted various types of technical and safety inspections, perhaps some logistics work, maybe even preformed troubleshooting that could be emphasized. If you've ever made any recommendations for equipment modification that were accepted, that would be gravy. You've probably had various forms of ongoing technical education yourself, or acting as in instructor. Another track might be management. I'm sure you can see where this is going. Rendering things in terms that civilians understand will also be helpful. I recall seeing this book [amazon.com] out there before. Not sure if it would be helpful or not to you. I would expect that your service's transition program has similar resources available.
If you haven't had your hand involved in the actual technical aspects of electrical engineering for 12 years or so... that's a long time. If you think you might want to go that way you might want to see about getting ahold of some free vendor tools and play around to see if that still interests you. Some of the FPGA manufacturers have made them available over time.
Some industries may value the combination of your experience more than others. Aerospace, for example.
Once you have a direction, and maybe a backup direction / plan, you will probably want to start making contacts well before your exit date. You might also want to do what you can to get some money saved up as a cushion. Keep in mind the big internet recruiting sites appropriate for the industry you want to pursue, such as Monster and Dice.
As I noted, just my thoughts. Nothing authoritative here. Good luck to you, and thanks for answering the call.
defense contractor (Score:2)
Become a SME (Score:2)
I'd suggest hunting down Lockheed, Boeing, or L-3 Communications (or another DoD contractor) and start working with them as a Subject Material Expert in whatever you did in your career. You get a very decent salary, don't really have to do much, and generally you can work with multiple companies at a time if you set yourself up as an independent contractor. Effectively, you can do what you like and what you know, and get paid for it.
Engineering is good (Score:2)
Work for a military contractor (Score:2)
I'd say that you should look for work at a military contractor (or work as a civilian for the military itself) where they will value your military and flight experience (and security clearances). If I interviewed you for an engineering position at my civilian company, your military/flight experience would mean little aside from some interesting (for me) chitchat while waiting for the elevator, and you'd lose some points because you've been out of EE for a decade. It's no different than if you spent 10 years
generic advice and two words: "security clearance" (Score:2)
As a rule the only "career advice" I ever give is "Know thyself" [wikipedia.org]
with that said - I've heard a lot of business owners say they like to "hire for attitude and train for skills." Military service is going to be a plus for most companies BUT What employers really care about is that you will help their company succeed - the parts to emphasize from your military service are that you will show up, work hard, and have a good attitude (but I wouldn't say "I've learned to embrace the suck." if they ask you what you
You don't, really. (Score:2)
I've done a bit of hiring on th e side for some of my companies. Ex-military is good for a whole hosts of reasons (thank for your service; courage; discipline; commitment, top gun..). That's your "in" right there, no need for more.
What you need on top of that is:
- don't be a nut job. Quite a few ex-military I've come across had severe PTSD. Make sure you project "normality", with a dollop of humor and lay-backedness (not aloofness though: our business is not war, but it *is* important, too). Make sure you h
Civil Service Jobs (Score:3)
ISince 9/11 I have been flying combat missions for the military. Since I now have just a little over a year before becoming a civilian again, I was wondering if any Slashdotters had any applicable advice/anecdotes. How does one effectively combine engineering/development with another professional skill-set? (Being a jet pilot in this example.)
Assuming you are a member of the US military, consider taking a civil service job with the federal government. You would be credited for your military time and your experience. The FAA probably could use you, with all the Nextgen development they are doing - check the job postings at usajobs.gov
Depends on your area of specialty (Score:2)
In the arena of Architectural Engineering, ex-military types are generally sought after for Commissioning work. You need to be competent "enough" on the engineering side, but the focus is on process and troubleshooting. We tend not to hire ex military folks for engineering design roles based on a bias that their creativity has been stifled. (On a case-by case basis of course.)
But, pay would be better working as an airline pilot if you have your hours. You really need to be exceptional to hit $135k as a
Go To Work For Boeing (Score:2)
Military experience is an asset (Score:3)
Since you have a college degree, I assume you are an officer. So you have leadership experience. That is worth a lot. I would look at that resume and be thinking more about hiring someone who will be a good manager some day, even if they are a little rusty on design skills right now. Which is not to say I would put you straight into management, or give you a pass on sloppy design work, but I'd give you a chance to come up to speed again.
In my former life as a hiring manager, I can look at someone with a successful military career, *especially* a career in a complex rating such as "combat pilot" and know there is a huge list of things I don't have to teach you. Like showing up on time. Like clearly understanding your deliverables. Like fulfilling your role in the team and working with a team toward a complex goal.
So if you can refresh your skills, even with a hobby project, do it and push it to github. That gives you something technical to talk about that is fresh. Then sell what you've got, because you've got something that most new hires don't, and that is a demonstratable track record of delivering complicated goals in a high pressure and disciplined environment. Oh... and you were entrusted with the operation of multiple millions of dollars worth of delicate capital equipment.
I'll tell you what, the best boss I ever had was an ex Israeli commando officer. Why? 1. There was never, ever, any doubt whatsoever what he wanted me to accomplish. 2. When he asked what I needed to get the job done, he listened and either got it or adjusted plans accordingly. When you think about it, that makes total sense, you don't send commandos in with a fuzzy idea of what to do and insufficient equipment and support, because the alternative is writing a lot of unpleasant letters to parents. I'm guessing you have some of that in you, and that will go far. If I was interviewing you today, I'd be asking questions to probe for *that*, and be less interested if you can recite the latest data sheets from memory.
Relevance (Score:2)
For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?
MANAGER: How are the skills you acquired during your term of service in the military relevant to this position?
Or, find an airline that's hiring.
Try AFRL (Score:2)
Like lots other posters, I think something with the government or defense contractors will probably be the easiest.
Consider looking at the AFRL Information Directorate in Rome, NY or their contractors. They do lots of interesting EE things where Air Force experience is a major benefit.
Seriously? You're asking us? (Score:2)
Most of us still live in our Mother's basement.
Some of us have actually gotten laid. While the rest do it playing a stimulator game.
Kidding aside, try the government, in particular, the NSA. Or with the clearance you already had, I'd be surprised you if couldn't get a gig with a company doing military work.
Play to basic strengths (Score:2)
For those of you who do hiring, what is the best way to sell this type of background?
As one who is hiring, I would rather not people try to "sell" me anything. I need to deal with the facts (I worked here and did this, I worked there and did that) and form my own judgments. At least to me, "sell" means "spin," means highlight the positives, means hide the negatives, etc. As someone who'll have to deal with you, day in day out, I would rather know everything up front. In other words, you're dumb for asking employers for advice on how to sweet-talk us.
Even so, I will say this in hopes that it
Let's do a skills check list (Score:3)
EE degree and trained as a pilot. Obviously trainable, check.
Able to work as part of a team, check.
Able to work under pressure, check.
Communications skills, roger that.
Able to supervise and mentor others, check.
Can be trusted to properly operate expensive hardware and software, check.
Shows initiative while following direction and procedures, check.
Attention to detail, check. Pilots who are not die.
When can you start?
Consultant (Score:2)
Look at some of the big consulting companies that work with the military. MITRE, CACI, Booz Allen, CSC, GE, Lockheed Martin, etc., like to hire ex-military. Here is a good list:
http://www.businessinsider.com/top-25-us-defense-companies-2012-2?op=1 [businessinsider.com]
don't forget civil service (Score:2)
If you have a background like this and don't like the idea of working as a contractor, you may want to work in the civil service. The military employs many civilian engineers with uniformed experience in everything from testing to program management. Take a look at the various labs and research organizations and get in touch with one near where you'd like to end up.
The government needs good people.
How to sell this (Score:2)
Jet Pilots Are Always in Demand (Score:2)
As someone who makes hiring and firing decisions, I have never seen a better qualification than someone having been a fighter pilot. Several of my friends are former pilots for the Navy who have done well in various entrepreneurial pursuits involving technology. I would hire them immediately if they ever needed a job.
The basic qualities I pick up on, and that seem to be the most appealing as an employer, are the level of preparation that goes into being a pilot and the practical math behind operating an air
Highlight those skills (Score:2)
Jeezus man, you're a military pilot (or at least flight crew), play to your strengths ... disciplined, smart, good under pressure, hard worker, probably work well in a teams, okay with responsibility, big brass ones.
Highlight the entirely useful skillsets and training you got out of that, because you can use those pretty much anywhere. The military doesn't as general rule let idiots and lazy people fly combat missi
Don't bother unless you want a technical position (Score:2)
Don't bother. Market yourself as a mid-tier manager with the appropriate skills and look for jobs with technology companies. If you're still interested in supporting the war machine, look for jobs with defense contractors.
As someone who has been flying for 12 years, you're likely a Major or maybe a Lt Colonel, yes? The skills you've gained as a manager are far more relevant to prospective employers than your (likely outdated) electrical engineering background.
If you want technical work be prepared to sta
Advice from someone whose been there (Score:2)
I did something similar -- flew tactical jets for 10 years then went into Engineering (electrical/computer). My first bit of advice is:
Stay in the military and complete 20 years of service. Military salaries for mid-grade officers and above are competitive with engineering salaries once the untaxed benefits are figured in. If you really want to get over towards engineering, work your way over to the Systems Commands (Naval Air Systems Command for USN, USAF has something similar). You will be doing an en
Do you have a CLEARANCE, Clarence? (Score:2)
Seriously, though, Clearance + EE is quite valuable. If you're worried about seeming "rusty" on the engineering side, get a MSEE from some university... a lot of very good universities have distance programs where you might be able to get started early.
Management (Score:2)
Since you have been flying combat missions, I assume you are an officer. In which case, you should be aiming for management, IMHO. Engineering management, if you will. In this way you can combine both the skills you have developed in the military with your engineering background.
Even in big dumb mechanical and/or civil engineering, 10-12 years is a long time and I would not rely on your previous experience as an engineer will hold much weight.
If you really want to get back into for-reals engineering, go
same as any skillset (Score:2)
Find a job you want. Work out which skills you have that would help you in that job and make you a better candidate than the competition. Write up those skills.
The fact that you have diverse skillsets is a strength, but you still write your resume the same way as someone with a linear job progression. Highlight the skills, activities and experiences that will add value to your potential employer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
and say cool stuff like,
"You can be my wingman any time!"
Re: (Score:2)
First of all make sure you apply to the big defense contractors. Lockheed Martin especially likes to hire ex-military. Given that you were a jet pilot, I mean that's pretty damn impressive. Emphasize how you can work with complicated systems. Flying a jet isn't easy. Were you a leader in the military? Emphasize leadership skills. I assume flying combat missions takes communication skills too. Emphasize those.
I believe all pilots are officers so he was a leader in the military.
Re: (Score:3)
There's a difference between having rank and being a leader. He may be both, but its far from assured.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree but for entirely different reasons, and I would sell my skillset to the defense industry in your shoes. I know someone who is both a EE and a test pilot. He writes his algorithms, and if he sucks he dies! He's still around though.
But seriously, sell it to the right industry, it's actually a very viable combination. The fact that you've already had all the training that goes behind military flying experience (being dropped in a pool and told to escape from his seat, is most frequently discussed), mea
Re: (Score:2)
That would be like saying to Mark Zuckerberg (after he retires from Facebook), "Why don't you go work for my friend Joe, he needs someone who knows PHP to fix his Magento ecommerce website".
Private charter pilots make not much more than minimum wage, hell even airline pilots aren't very good jobs these days unless you're like 50+ years old with lots of seniority and you started decades ago under union contract.
Re: (Score:2)
That would be like saying to Mark Zuckerberg (after he retires from Facebook), "Why don't you go work for my friend Joe, he needs someone who knows PHP to fix his Magento ecommerce website".
No, that's probably all Zuckerberg is actually good for. Lightning struck for him and he made the most of it, but he's no genius programmer or anything.
I guess at this point his social network (groan) by which i mean the people he has access to now is worth more than any innate skills he has or ever will have.
Programming is the one thing Zuck's not great at. (Score:2)
Has McDonald's sold a hundred billion burgers because Ray Kroc
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, Anonymous Coward is an appropriate name for you. Someone who signed up for the military following 9/11 certainly does not need to justify their actions.
Was the Iraq war a "good war?" No, not in my opinion. But that war wasn't started by the military. It was started by the unprosecuted war criminals who were almost voted into positions of power, men like George W "Decider" Bush, Dick "Dick" Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
But he was killing people for you and me, people who would try to kill us over something as stupid as our society allowing the drinking of alcohol and having strip clubs. I think I can support someone who fought for titties and booze.
Re: (Score:2)
Well this is of course assuming that the Taliban in Afghanistan were willingly hosting training camps to attack America. Considering that the Taliban disallowed people from even owning a television in Afghanistan, and would beat women in the streets for whatever reason, I think the assumption of collusion with terrorist organizations holds up. It's not pre-emptive whatsoever, you saw those buildings drop just like myself and many other millions of people; it is completely reactionary.
If the Canadian gover