Ask Slashdot: How Would You Stop a Debt Collection Scam From Targeting You? 497
An anonymous reader writes "I'm currently being targeted by an overseas debt collection scam. My landline rings every 10-15 minutes all day every day. I considered getting a blacklisting device to block the incoming calls, but the call center spoofs a different number on my caller ID each time, and it's gotten to the point where I've just unplugged the phones. I'm already on the Do No Call Registry and have filed a complaint with the FTC. Aside from ditching my landline, changing my number, and/or blowing a whistle into the receiver anytime I actually pick up, are there any real solutions out there? Has anybody had luck with a blacklisting device?"
Screening your calls (Score:5, Interesting)
There are companies you can hire to screen your calls.
All your calls are forwarded to them and they'll answer the phone.
You give them instructions on how to handle your calls and they'll only pass through the calls that you want.
find an old modem (Score:4, Interesting)
put it on auto answer. preferably so that it doesn't hang up if it can't negotiate.
someone, somewhere, is paying for those calls somehow and this can maximize that and tie up maximum resources from the caller.
or an answering machine that has just "hello? helloo??".
obviously you aren't using the phoneline for anything now anyways..
Spoof the line as disconnected.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Tie them up (Score:5, Interesting)
I had a co-worker who was getting harassed on her work line from a fake money collection organization. So I started calling them, and calling them, and then they discontinued their number.
They then started calling her again a few months later and it took even less time for them to shut down that number.
As far as I know she hasn't had another call since.
Oh, and if at all possible try to figure out where they are calling from and try to use the differences in culture to insult them. Like calling them shoe lickers or something. Just calling them regular english put downs aren't as effective.
Also you may want to try the "why not do something better with your life" talk, after all a lot of times these people are better educated than many of their peers and could make a significant difference in their community if they weren't intent on trying to scam those rich dumb people from that rich dumb country.
Re:Pay the debt (Score:5, Interesting)
Though the OP didn't state such, there is a rise of debt collection scams, eg, there is no real debt. It's just a matter of harass somebody using debt collection tactics until they give you money. It's criminal action, by the way, but doesn't garner much attention from the law enforcement because it's so difficult and costly to track. The fake collections agencies are basically using legitimate collections "tools" illegally.
Paying the fictitious debt is actually the worst thing one can do, since it simply causes you to be marked as a hitable target and thus escalates the situation.
fwd ur number (Score:5, Interesting)
temporarily forward your number to another debt collection agency. let them battle it out.
let ur friends know to contact u via your cell in the interim.
Re:Spoof the line as disconnected.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I did this a few years ago when I had a similar problem with a collection agency that was looking for a former renter. I changed my answering machine message to the intercept tone sequence, followed by a scratchy message that sounded similar to the telco's automated message:
"We're sorry, your call cannot be answered at this time. Please check the number or contact the operator... (3 second delay) Or if you're a friend just leave a message at the beep." *BEEP*
My friends thought it was hilarious and the collectors usually hung up long before the part about leaving a message kicked in. It took a couple of months, but the calls finally stopped.
Now a friend of mine who was being harassed took a different track. He would answer the phone and listen politely to find out who they were looking for. Then he would start yelling at the collector, claiming he was owed a large sum of money from the same person. He would accuse them of being a friend of the debtor, demand they reveal where he was and threaten to sue them to get his money back. The calls stopped soon afterwards.
Your mileage may vary, etc. etc.
Re:fwd ur number (Score:5, Interesting)
no, temporarily forward your number to the FTC. That should make them do something about US operators allowing spoofed CLID.
On my domestic (non-US) market, I remember only one incident of spooffed CLID. I asked my operator to check from which operator the call originated. I sent them polite email asking to consider preventing such incidents, otherwise the telco regulator will be informed. Did not occure again (so far).
Re:find an old modem (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem is that automation has made the cost of placing calls too cheap for this to be a major consideration. There's a computer that places thousand of calls per day per line. If the call connects and the SW determines it's not connecting to an answering machine, it then connects to a person. If you figure there's a 0.1% chance of a person answering, one person handles the connections resulting from over 100,000 calls per day. The cost of the line is down to basically nothing per call and the cost of the person handling it is down to near nothing.
Perversely, it seems like the only way to push this cost back on the organization behind the calling is to answer every call. This forces them to tie up a phone line for more than a few seconds and more importantly ties up a person to whom they must pay wages. Then your goal is to tie that person up for as long as possible before telling him you are not going to give him any money under any circumstances ever.
Re:Solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Or do a credit check on yourself.
Arstechnica.com just did an article on how easy it is to steal an identity complete with a credit number for $30 on the blackmarket!
Someone could have just taken your identity and bought a car, home, and maxed 5 credit cards and the debt collectors are going after you to pay for it. Always watch your back as that FICO score is your life and you can't buy anything or move into a new job without that reputation score high enough.
Re:Asterisk, SIP Gateway, Whitelist (Score:3, Interesting)
You can also get a landline phone that has a whitelist function. (On my Panasonic phone it's called "night mode", because at night one only wants to be disturbed from important family and friends; you can set the "night" hours as you wish.)
Re:You want a whitelisting device. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is why Google Voice is awesome. You can whitelist or blacklist easily, without knowing anything advanced about phone systems. Thus it's almost impossible to be trolled or scammed this way at your actual Google number, and since that's the number you would give out, your number you actually forward to can be changed whenever necessary.
Re:Need more information (Score:5, Interesting)
Scammers? Get a 900 number and make EVERYONE pay to talk to you. I guarantee you'll spend LESS time on the phone. Why should you take a loss when people waste your time with their inane babble, needs, wants and desires? I suppose you could get a private cell for those close to you, but, the general public, business interests and anyone WANTING something needs to pay toll.
Re:landline? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've never once gotten a nuisance call on my cell phone. I wonder why I have been so blessed? They always come in on the landline, which is why we have an old-fashioned answering machine and basically just set up all the numbers of people we know with a specific ring and any other number has a silent ring.
So, using this old digital answering machine, and its ability to set up personal ringtones, we're able to create a white list. If someone needs to call me who is not on our phone list, they can send an email or call the celly.
Re:Need more information (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: fwd ur number (Score:2, Interesting)
Because call forwarding happens at the exchange before the connection is put through to your number. The exchange has three parts - incoming connections, local numbers and outgoing conections. Call forwarding simply replaces a local number with an outgoing connection to a new number.
Many businesses do tbat when their own staff can't handle the volume of calls at certain times of the year.
I was targeted by Sprint once... (Score:4, Interesting)
They had an epic screwup many years ago. One month I paid the bill, and instead of deducting the amount on the check from the balance, they added it so the next bill showed a past-due amount that was exactly double what the previous bill had been. Calling their customer service was useless - you would wait in the queue for 45 minutes only to find out that their "computers were down" and there was nothing they could do. This went on for days. Eventually I thought I got it all taken care of, and then out of the blue 6 months later I started getting calls from a collection agency. I started sending some rather rude letters to the CEO after this - eventually they admitted the problem.
It was nearly 30 years ago, but to this day I refuse to have anything to do with Sprint.
Re:Which wouldn't work (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fax machine (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Need more information (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Need more information (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to offer to help them get the FTC's $50,000 reward for stopping telemarketing abuse by turning in their boss. None of them took me up on it :-)
But that program's over, so I usually just ask them how their family feels about them scamming people for a living. Most of them just hang up, some of them get mad.
Re:Fax machine (Score:4, Interesting)
Or just put the receiver on the desk, and waste a bit of *their* time.
That only succeeds in informing them that your number goes to a live person, and further that said person isn't taking their calls; That's a good way to get out of the collections department and into legal. And legal will just take out a court order for the money against you ex parte in many states. You'll find your bank account zeroed and good luck fighting back then, since you won't be able to pay the court fees to file a counter-suit, or retain a lawyer.
Poor people are at a distinct disadvantage in our justice system. Whether the court action is legitimate or not, without money you can't prevail. And odds are, the money you'll spend will never be recovered.
That's for a LEGIT debt collection agency. The scammers won't bother calling their lawyers. For the legit agencies, they have to document the debt, show that it is a real live debt, give you 30 days to dispute it in writing by sending you a real live dunning notice that has the 'mini-Miranda' clause: 'This is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information gathered will be used for that purpose'. In the US, these activities are governed by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Violate the 'rules' of the FDCPA, you lose your license.
Caveat: I used to be a debt collector. And yeah, you can collect on what they call 'bad debt', or debt that's so old it cannot be sued on because it's past the statute of limitations for that debt. A lot of 'bad debt' is sold for maybe 5 cents on the dollar to what we used to call 'chop shops' that called it 2 or 3 times to get a quick fast settlement over the phone for whatever they can get for it. The 'chop shop' collectors would bully the hell out of the debtor in an attempt to get what they can. The biggest thing to remember about old debt is, they can't sue you for it because of the statute of limitations. And yeah, it is a violation of the FDCPA to threaten to sue someone when you have absolutely no intentions of suing them. You can tell the debtor 'You may be sued, and if so, and we receive a judgement against you, you will also be responsible for court costs and interest on the debt, liens may be placed against your property in that event' and so on.
Re:Fax machine (Score:5, Interesting)
Fax tones are not something that will stop them. That strongly implies the number is live and capable of picking up the phone. Since this is a residential target it will be assumed that it's not dedicated. Only some very old people I know still have dedicated landlines for fax machines these days.
The only thing that I know works are SIT tones. That *is* interpreted by almost all systems as an indication the number cannot be routed to, or is out of service. Most of them receive that information via out-of-band signalling anyways so the fax machine negotiation noise isn't even looked at it either (that's in-band signalling). A debt collection service would be murdered on cost unless they were VOIP, so while it's possible that fax is supported, it's also highly likely it's not implemented in code. Either way, that's a shit disposition flag to be resting the fate of your sanity on.
Unfortunately, since the poster does not want to get rid of the landline, they need a blacklist device cheap. That's still going to require at least a dedicated machine and a pair of FXS/FXO ports. I know you can get some of that stuff as cards or USB devices.
Assuming you have all that it's rather trivial to set up Asterisk to drop the call before even answering it based on CLID matches. It's also fairly easy to set up a minimalist IVR that plays a message and asks the person to wait before it's connected. You could even go so far as to ask a CAPTCHA like question. Ask them to press a random number to be connected.
The most difficult part about this solution is needing to keep the land line.
I know many people that have debt collectors all over them. Very few walked away unharmed from Wall Street's greed finally blowing up. Anyways, I created a few systems with Asterisk, some old VOIP adapters, and a CLID based blacklist system for friends. Works quite well and after a few years now people hardly get any calls at all.
It costs $10-$30 to port a number to VOIP. I would highly suggest that and a nice VOIP phone for the house. Makes everything cheaper and more flexible for solutions in the future.
Almost All (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:fwd ur number (Score:4, Interesting)
This is why I use a premium rate service as my default contact number for any company I deal with now. It forwards to my real mobile number but costs them 50p/minute to call. The number starts 070 so most people think it is a normal 077 or 078 mobile number anyway, and I've yet to find an online form that wouldn't accept it.
My time is valuable, if you want to call me with some bullshit it's gonna cost you. Otherwise just write a letter, send an email or just wait for me to contact you when I need something.