Ask Slashdot: Are We Older Experts Being Retired Too Early? 629
caferace writes "I've been around the block. I'm a long-time worker in the tech industry (nearly 30 years), absolutely kickass SQA and Hardware person, networking, you name it. But I'm 50+ now, and finding new regular or contract work is a pain. And it shouldn't be. I have the skills and the aptitude to absorb and adapt to any new situations and languages way beyond what any of my college age brethren might have. But when I send out a perfectly good resume and use the more obvious resources there are still precious few bites for someone requiring to work remotely. Am I just whining, or is this common? Are we being put out to pasture far too early?"
Remote working (Score:5, Informative)
Wanting to work remotely is probably putting potential employers off too... A lot of people can't understand how someone can work remotely, and just assume they're sitting around playing games all day. They would rather see you sitting at a desk so they think you're working, even if you might be sitting there using slashdot all day.
Re:FTFY (Score:5, Informative)
What a load of BS.
As a 30 year old admin I can tell you right now that I can easily diag failing hard drives, memory sticks and yes even network issues..
If you think that you need many many years of experience to do this you are not nearly as talented as you seem to want to make yourself out to be. Go look in the mirror, if your crowning achievement is being able to diag simple hardware problems, then maybe the issue with you getting hired has more to do with your inexperience and not your age.
Re:Potty mouth (Score:1, Informative)
No, you seem to have a problem with profanity in a public forum.
Please let's keep it clean here.
I see no convincing argument for this. Your prudishness is your issue, not Seumas's.
Re:Potty mouth (Score:1, Informative)
Thanks Mom, for helping to clean up the internet. Maybe you should mind your own fucking business and ignore objectionable things yourself, rather than project your ideals onto the rest of us. Asshole.
Re:30 years? (Score:5, Informative)
Thank you, whoever you are. Your response reminds me of a classic definition of feminism being the radical notion that women are people.
Typically, when you get into a good committed relationship between capable people, then each helps support the other when they need it. Man or woman doesn't matter when the chips are down, love and committment do.
Children, on the other hand, are way more expensive than a lot of would-be parents give them credit for. To age 18, it's about $400K. If you're helping with college expenses, tack on another $200K. The little rascals are also the greatest diminisher of marital happiness, according to serious studies on the subject. I'm sure being a parent is a wonderful experience (that I've never had), but be careful out there and don't end up a parent by accident.
Re:Aging workforce (Score:5, Informative)
In the US, I should mention that there's another key dimension in play: Older workers bring with them more expensive health insurance costs. I just watched a major corporation end the career of a 25-year veteran of the company primarily because of that (it was a "layoff" that just happened to get rid of 22 workers who just happened to be the oldest workers who weren't chums with an executive).
Re:Lie a little (Score:3, Informative)
At least I won't be tagged as a grammar nazi on internet forums!!!!
Re:30 years? (Score:5, Informative)
The costs of children being factored in are:
- Food, easily $800 a year, or $14400 total.
- Clothing, frequently cheap because of second-hand, but another $200 a year is not uncommon, so $3600 total.
- Time off from work to take care of them (both in infancy and during illnesses). This is a very expensive item, with costs of $60,000 not uncommon.
- What that does to the career of whichever parent takes that time off from work. This accounts for much of the disparity between men's and women's pay, costing mom (who are more likely to take the time off than dads) roughly $180,000 over those 18 years.
- The larger home needed to have room for the child. Also, an important related expense is having the home in a neighborhood with a good school system. This is easily $300 a month increase, which comes out to $57400.
- Medical care. Insurance for kids typically runs at least $1000 a year, so tack on another $18,000.
- Transportation to and from school. If you're lucky and live near enough that the kid can walk, or have good school buses, this is $0, for others it's another $4000 or so over the kid's lifetime.
Add those up, and you get $404,000, right about the $400,000 figure I quoted. As for the $200K, have you ever looked at college tuition?
Re:Lie a little (Score:5, Informative)
I telecommute and consider myself lucky, I get to live in the Mid-west where the cost of living is low and work for a company in California. I have looked around and there are plenty of jobs but telecommuting really limits the opportunities.
Age Discrimination is Real (Score:4, Informative)
As someone who, at two months shy of turning 50, found himself unemployed as well as seeing how my brother, at 57, can't find anything other a retail job (he used to be an executive but was laid off), yes...it's real.
Some companies recognize that the old folks possess knowledge and business skills that took years to acquire. Yet, as we age, we cost companies more in terms of benefits (i.e. medical). And, we are at the top of the salary ranges in most cases. Businesses that look only at the bottom line are quick to let us go. Some regret it.
When I was last let go, there was a clause, in tiny and condensed print, that said to accept my severance (which sucked, btw), I couldn't sue under the Age Discrimination Act (which is supposed to protect those over 40). The also only let me go that day. Others, over the age of 40 have been let go...singly...so they don't have to report on the ages and positions of those let go. The average age at the company is now 36. The company has a 200 employees/consultants...a handful over the age of 45.
Another company that let a division go listed all employees ages and titles and division to show that age discrimination was not a factor. They complied 100% and also did their best to help us get placed and provided a REAL severance package that showed how much they really cared about the employees they were letting go. It was a great company.
I don't really want to be a manager...which is where most my age end up...I am a creative type. My resume shows my skills. But, I have been in the work force since 1979. It's not ethical to not list your previous employment if relevant. If you have gaps, you will probably be asked to explain them. So, it's hard to hide your likely age. They aren't stupid. And, some simply will bit bucket your CV as soon as they realize your age.
In the US, there is a list of questions they can't ask. But, your CV gives you away. In my case, I was lucky that 2 days after getting laid off - I had a chance encounter with an individual who needed someone with exactly my skill set. Age wasn't an issue as my experience is what he needed. Coding is being done by remarkable people who are far younger than I. That's fine with me as I am a systems architect and engineer.
Bottom line is you can't lie on your CV. A background check (which most employers do), will verify your CV. Most ask for references. They better be good ones. So, call the old employer and, if still on friendly terms with them, get their permission to use them as a reference. While HR can't ask certain questions....how the reference responds (like, hesitating or sounding bored or enthusiastic) makes a difference.
If I get laid off again (knock on wood), I will likely be self-employed or doing contract work.
You're not trying hard enough (Score:5, Informative)
I'm 72 now, and still gainfully employed...just not by 35-year-old "managers" (or worse, "executives") who haven't got any substantive experience to evaluate competence. After a career consulting to IBM, Intel, HP, Amoco, DuPont (and lots more) at the CxO level on IT strategy, I semi-retired in 2001, to a small mountain town nestled in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Up here, the body of "technical talent" is composed of self-taught "experts" who wouldn't know how to make changes to a registry, or whip up a quick script to solve a user's persistent problem.
So, I reached out to local businesses with computers who experienced lots of "crashes" and "fatal errors" and had gaming computers when they needed a laptop ('cause that's what the local store wanted to sell). I have several clients who keep me busy, and who have learned to accept my counsel as focused on THEIR business needs, not what's convenient for me.
The trick, for me, was to figure out what services to offer (hint: what they want, not what I want to do), and how to price my services; small businesses HATE to pay by the hour, because they understand that provides incentives to waste time in getting to the solution. I changed the model to a fixed monthly fee for most services, and a price schedule for extraordinary things (like properly configuring a new computer to add to the network). I make a comfortable living that supplements other family income, and keep my skills sharp.
Find your own path and make it yours. Don't try to get hired by people who can't appreciate your value. That way lies madness. --cao