Ask Slashdot: Most Chromebook-Like Unofficial ChromeOS Experience? 99
An anonymous reader writes: I am interested in Chromebooks, for the reasons that Google successfully pushes them: my carry-around laptops serve mostly as terminals, rather than CPU-heavy workhorses, and for the most part the whole reason I'm on my computer is to do something that requires a network connection anyhow. My email is Gmail, and without particularly endorsing any one element, I've moved a lot of things to online services like DropBox. (Some offline capabilities are nice, but since actual Chromebooks have been slowly gaining offline stuff, and theoretically will gain a lot more of that, soon, I no longer worry much about a machine being "useless" if the upstream connection happens to be broken or absent. It would just be useless in the same way my conventional desktop machine would be.) I have some decent but not high-end laptops (Core i3, 2GB-4GB of RAM) that I'd enjoy repurposing as Chromebooks without pedigree: they'd fall somewhat short of the high-end Pixel, but at no out-of-pocket expense for me unless I spring for some cheap SSDs, which I might.
So: how would you go about making a Chromebook-like laptop? Yes, I could just install any Linux distro, and then restrain myself from installing most apps other than a browser and a few utilities, but that's not quite the same; ChromeOS is nicely polished, and very pared down; it also seems to do well with low-memory systems (lots of the current models have just 2GB, which brings many Linux distros to a disk-swapping crawl), and starts up nicely quick.
It looks like the most "authentic" thing would be to dive into building Chromium OS (which looks like a fun hobby), but I'd like to find something more like Cr OS — only Cr OS hasn't been updated in quite a while. Perhaps some other browser-centric pared-down Linux would work as well. How would you build a system? And should I go ahead and order some low-end 16GB SSDs, which I now see from online vendors for less than $25?
So: how would you go about making a Chromebook-like laptop? Yes, I could just install any Linux distro, and then restrain myself from installing most apps other than a browser and a few utilities, but that's not quite the same; ChromeOS is nicely polished, and very pared down; it also seems to do well with low-memory systems (lots of the current models have just 2GB, which brings many Linux distros to a disk-swapping crawl), and starts up nicely quick.
It looks like the most "authentic" thing would be to dive into building Chromium OS (which looks like a fun hobby), but I'd like to find something more like Cr OS — only Cr OS hasn't been updated in quite a while. Perhaps some other browser-centric pared-down Linux would work as well. How would you build a system? And should I go ahead and order some low-end 16GB SSDs, which I now see from online vendors for less than $25?
Check out Chromixium (Score:5, Informative)
http://chromixium.org/
Re: Oh Fuck Off (Score:1)
I had some of my Debian computers get 'upgraded' to using systemd. The boot times got really bad after that, since these computers wouldn't restart properly due to problems with systemd that prevented them from fully booting. Maybe that's what happened to the submitter, too.
Re: (Score:2)
you know what Debian or Ubuntu without the SystemD suck is called? Linux Mint
Re:Oh Fuck Off (Score:5, Insightful)
I just put a SSD in my 9 year old ThinkPad T60 and took that as an opportunity to switch from Windows 7 to LXLE (Lubuntu based) on it. It *flies* now and I can actually watch Netflix on it fullscreen - it pegs the CPU pretty hard but doesn't get A/V sync issues like it did on Windows. It has 2.5GB RAM, but I've yet to use half that even with quite a few tabs open in Chrome (not Chromium). The only other things I have installed are Dropbox, Remmina (RDP client) and an IMAP client. I can't imagine ChromeOS being much more polished than LXLE with a few defaults - the only major difference being that Chrome had a few hiccups to get it installed, but nothing I couldn't figure out in five minutes with Google... not bad considering I don't have a whole lot of Linux experience.
Re: (Score:3)
In place of.
I had a 7200 RPM WD Scorpio Black drive in the T60 before I changed it to the SSD. The SSD is about 3 years old and is a hand-me-down from my desktop, which I just upgraded to a larger SSD.
Re: (Score:2)
I've been running XBMC off of linux for years. It has always played everything at full screen with no trouble for me.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I'm having trouble believing a video anything would work better in Linux.
Don't most blu-ray players and set-top boxes run cut-down versions of Linux internally?
So it cannot be that hard.
Re: (Score:3)
I think it's less than Linux runs the video better and more than there's less *other stuff* trying for resources. Netflix ran fan if I made the window just a bit smaller than full screen, but at full screen, the audio and video would start to fall out of sync after about 10 minutes - haven't had that issue at all with LXLE even at fullscreen. Best as I can tell, it's because Netflix tries to rape my CPU and LXLE seems to have a little less overhead than Windows 7 did... just enough to give Chrome/Netflix th
Re: (Score:2)
Same here, and that's on an *ancient* NVidia card (fanless 8600 IIRC) and a P4 3.8GHz with only 800 MHz memory.
Raw Debian had some issues with tearing prior to their latest driver updates from NVidia, but I've no doubt those issues have been addressed with their latest stable release (which has newer drivers.) Most of the tearing was with Flash playback, though -- VLC did a pretty good job with upscaled 720p videos.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
You just need Chrome (not Chromium). Here are the directions I followed:
http://linuxg.net/how-to-insta... [linuxg.net]
Re: (Score:2)
> on a stinkpad
Straight to name calling. Wow. Let me guess, you're Republican?
Re: (Score:2)
Nope. Both call names, but Republicans seem to *constantly* use cute little names like that as often as possible.
Re: (Score:2)
The SSD cost me nothing - it was a hand-me-down from my desktop, which got a larger SSD. It's pretty easy to find smaller-capacity SSDs for cheap or even free if you keep an eye out. This one is 60GB and I'm using less than 10% even after Dropbox finished syncing everything.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My T60 is SATA, fortunately, or else I probably wouldn't have even thought to look for PATA SSDs.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm pretty sure that without a really nice SSD, and custom startup, you can't get boot to login in under 15 seconds on a BIO/UEFI machine.
And to the Ask /. guy, why not just get a Chromebook, drop it into Developer mode and call it good? It will likely to be less headache than rolling your own custom linux setup the borks every update.
Re: (Score:2)
ChromeOS (Score:3)
My first impression was, "WTF?! Why would anyone want to do that?" Keep in mind that not only am I typing this on a Chromebook, I basically live on this thing. For what I use it for, it works well. With a web based IDE and an SSH client, you can accomplish almost anything. Entertainment is not a pleasant situation but that's what we have gaming PCs for, right?
ChromeOS does actually have some nice features. It's nice to have updates that only take fifteen seconds, including a full reboot. The battery life is
Re: (Score:2)
My first impression was, "WTF?! Why would anyone want to do that?" Keep in mind that not only am I typing this on a Chromebook, I basically live on this thing. For what I use it for, it works well. With a web based IDE and an SSH client, you can accomplish almost anything. Entertainment is not a pleasant situation but that's what we have gaming PCs for, right?
The entertainment does suck! But after my old crappy laptop screen went kablooey I got an Acer C720 Chromebook. Not quite top-of-the-line. I was pleasantly surprised to find I could start up crosh and it has an ssh client! Well, and ping. Not much else.
I installed ChrUbuntu 12.04 on my boss's chromebook and it wasn't bad. I do think it's a tad slower than chromeos, though. Booting up of course, and general operation. And I am going to stick it on mine, too, although I've used it long enough that hav
Pay for the connection and pay for the server (Score:2)
With a web based IDE and an SSH client, you can accomplish almost anything.
But unless you go the Crouton route, what are you SSHing to? If you have your Chromebook open on the bus, you don't have an Internet connection unless you're paying for a mobile broadband plan. And you still have to pay to lease a server on which to run your "web based IDE and an SSH client".
Internet is Ubiquitous (Score:2)
If a quick Google search can be believed, you can actually get a free VPS. For an IDE I'm using Cloud9, but there are equally good or better alternatives. However, I am already paying for mobile data and a VPS for other reasons. Even so, I'd still probably get out my laptop on a bus only if it was a Google bus. Or maybe Greyhound, if it had wifi. I very rarely find myself without an Internet connection, even in rural Central America. When I don't have an Internet connection, generally I'm not doing anything
Hundreds of USD/yr for coding on the bus (Score:2)
I am already paying for mobile data and a VPS for other reasons. Even so, I'd still probably get out my laptop on a bus only if it was a Google bus.
Citilink buses in Fort Wayne, Indiana, do not offer Wi-Fi. They don't even run at night or on Sundays, to give you a sense of the system's scope. I currently happen not to subscribe to mobile Internet access, and even if I did, the carrier would likely charge twice: once for a phone and the tethering surcharge for a Chromebook. And how much data does your preferred web-based IDE use per hour? I don't want to end up paying for overages.
I need the Internet for work.
So do I. But my day job is at an office with wired Internet. The hobby pr
Well, if you really have to code on the bus... (Score:2)
Didn't tethering fees get clobbered by the FCC? The IDE is pretty light on bandwidth, the initial pageload is about 2 MB and it's just shuffling text around during use. It has a keep-alive ping, but otherwise you're only going to use bandwidth while saving changes or using the terminal. How much bandwidth does a terminal use? I recently signed up with PTel, which uses T-mobile's towers and gives you unlimited 3g / 1 GB 4g for $35/mo, no contract. I think a month's worth of coding would run substantially und
WTF are you trying to do, exactly? (Score:2)
Somehow you failed to tell us whether you are planning to use this:
1) like a mobile device, with access only to cloud services
2) like a thin client, where you VPN into your "real desktop" sitting safe at home or work
(If "both", pick #2).
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My main grip with ChromeOS is that it tries to needlessly tie you to cloud services when perfectly functional local or LAN equivalents exist. Network computing is a great idea. It's also an OLD idea. Resources should be as close to the device as possible. The first ring of your cloud should be your own home network.
Re: (Score:1)
That makes it harder for the NSA and GHCQ to read your data, you inconsiderate terrorist.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree but the target audience for ChromeOS is not one that would be running their own servers.
Re: (Score:2)
"I use a laptop, but I rarely do local compute on it, only cloud-based stuff; so I'm willing to spend $400+ on a device that arbitrarily limits me to ONLY doing cloud stuff, and can never do any useful local compute if I need it".
Car analogy: I only use a maximum of 63 horsepower in my daily commute, so I'm going to go out and buy a brand new car with a 63 horsepower engine.
"Just" 2GB? (Score:1)
Seriously? Linux distros need more than 2GBs of RAM to run? No too long ago I was running Linux just fine with 512MB of RAM.
Chromebook-like laptop? Install Firefox (Score:1)
So you want a Chromebook-like laptop? Just install Firefox. In a few more release cycles I'm sure it'll be utterly indistinguishable from a Chromebook.
Chromixium (Score:2)
I wouldn't bother. (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, I wouldn't bother. It makes no sense.
The Chromebooks available are dirt cheap, good-looking, light-weight, run for 8 hours and longer and have their OS tailored to light-weight power-saving CPUs and built around the computers it runs on - sorta like Apple. Chromebooks basically are the poor mans mac-book air. And if ChromeOS fits your bill and you have no problem with your OS basically being a remote extension of the todays online service known as Google you should go right ahead and one of those available. That current one from HP looks pretty neat, for instance.
As for the dabbling, I'd go exactly the other way around: Get a ready-made buy-unpack-works Chromebook and install Crouton [github.com] on it for Linux freedom pleasure. Don't be silly and try to build your own. It will be shitty, lots of work, short on battery life, weigh a ton, look like crap and be expensive in comparsion.
Mind you, I did just get two refurbished ThinkPads for Linux progging and fiddling, but those are definitely not meant for lugging around. They each weigh well over 2kg and run 4 hours on a full-charge at most and are power-hogs in compasion. Good for proggin C/C++, running LAMP at full throttle (ones got 18GB, a Quad-Core Intel iSomething in it with a 256GB SSD) or playing Fallout 3 on Wine with the GFX all maxed out. ... a server (duh) at work.
I do *not* use them for everyday utility computing though. One actually serves as
My everyday computing, mail and leisure surfing I do on a 10" Yoga 2 Android tablet [images-amazon.com]. Even lighter than a Chromebook and runs 18 hours under full load. ... Have you thought about something like that? That might actually be an alternative. Although ChromeOS does seem to be a better fit for your useage.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree the keyboard isn't bad at all. A smooth experience all-in-all.
I'm going to be installing Linux alongside chromeos, and have installed ChrUbuntu on another chromebook. I wonder about Crouton vs. ChrUbuntu. My research suggests there are pros and cons to consider for each.
Re: (Score:2)
Two whole kilos? You big wet ponce.
Try a D900TM7700.
How to Make "A" LIke "B" (Score:2)
Simple .. you start with "B".
Otherwise what you have is "A" sort of like "B", but with compromises.
Re: (Score:2)
That's the maker spirit! We learn best with product-in-a-box solutions!
You're not wrong, exactly, but this person appears to be looking for a fun project and to learn a little something in the process. Plus, they're looking to re-purpose existing hardware instead of landfilling it which should be commended.
other benifits? (Score:2)
Arch with a lightweight DE could do this (Score:2, Interesting)
Arch linux with openbox/Cinnamon/XFCE would do this just fine. Set a browser to start in full screen mode and you're done. If you want a little more I've been doing something similar with Arch and LXQT(this is experimental but mostly stable) and it's super snappy. Once you're set up you're ready to go and it works with whatever settings you're giving it. I'm running this with a Dell Inspiron 1525 and it's really quick comparatively and lets me run some lower specced games that wouldn't run under Windows. Do
Linux will work fine (Score:2)
disable swap (Score:2)
with low-memory systems (lots of the current models have just 2GB, which brings many Linux distros to a disk-swapping crawl)
If you consider ("just"!?) 2GB as "low-memory" (!) then i think you are already in the wrong path for your "repurposing" quest, but anyway: the "disk-swapping crawl" is easily solved by disabling swap - swap is not needed so much for your use case (as you describe it, and as i understand it), and disabling swap (a dying craft i am afraid...) has a long tradition in the "repurposing" art!
You can do it either using the "swapoff/swapon" commands (more permanently in something like the "/etc/fstab"), or even b
Re: (Score:2)
disabling swap (a dying craft i am afraid...)
If only Linux installers would get with the times and default to no swap partition when at least 4GB of RAM is present.
Then we could put that nasty "swap" business behind us entirely.
Re: (Score:1)
disabling swap (a dying craft i am afraid...)
If only Linux installers would get with the times and default to no swap partition when at least 4GB of RAM is present.
Then we could put that nasty "swap" business behind us entirely.
I choose to not have any swap in my (8GB) desktop, but i understand that it is needed in some cases, and better be safe than sorry, so, we (you and me, who know what swap is and how/when to use it) should not blame the "Linux installers" who need to care about all those UNIX "illiterates" (that are the majority of current users i believe) - i am not so sure about this "default to no swap partition when at least 4GB of RAM is present" (because i don't trust all those UNIX "illiterates"), but some advice/expl
Re: (Score:2)
Can a system hibernate without swap?
I'd like to see a desktop mode for swap, that only uses it for hibernate, and when crashing is the other option.
Re: (Score:3)
It's much better to adjust the swappiness level way down: https://rudd-o.com/linux-and-f... [rudd-o.com]
As you said, swap isn't needed so much, but there are still good reasons to have some around. Besides the usual graceful degradation argument, it can be particularly handy for portables as a suspend partition. However, Linux has lots of servery defaults, and the swappiness is one where a much lower value gives better response times for "desktop" uses.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
As you said, swap isn't needed so much, but there are still good reasons to have some around.
There's only one: you have very little RAM. Then you may well need to use some swap to get a modern browser running well enough to hit newegg or eBay and buy some RAM.
Besides the usual graceful degradation argument
No. Swap causes graceless degradation. It's not so bad if you have SSD or hybrid disk, because it can handle seeking all over hell when it happens. But it's better to just let the OOM killer murder the out-of-control application. Save early, save often.
it can be particularly handy for portables as a suspend partition.
There's nothing wrong with a suspend file. You could make the argument that it's possible to
Re: (Score:2)
There's only one: you have very little RAM. Then you may well need to use some swap to get a modern browser running well enough to hit newegg or eBay and buy some RAM.
No, not using swap means less memory for applications, buffers and caching of persistent storage. This means degraded performance.
No. Swap causes graceless degradation. It's not so bad if you have SSD or hybrid disk, because it can handle seeking all over hell when it happens. But it's better to just let the OOM killer murder the out-of-control application. Save early, save often.
Let some algorithm determine what is "important".. Sounds like a (misguided) plan.
Swap was awesome back when RAM was expensive.
The equation has not changed.
Now swap is just stupid, unless you know you have a specific use case where it won't unacceptably degrade performance.
On this machine the presence of swap file currently means 6 GB of useless garbage is not loaded into main memory. 6 GB which can now be put to work to improve system performance.
Re: (Score:2)
On this machine the presence of swap file currently means 6 GB of useless garbage is not loaded into main memory.
Oracle? SAP? Slashcode?
Re: (Score:3)
There's only one: you have very little RAM. Then you may well need to use some swap to get a modern browser running well enough to hit newegg or eBay and buy some RAM.
No, not using swap means less memory for applications, buffers and caching of persistent storage. This means degraded performance.
I understand the theoretical reasons for this, and tend to agree with them.
However, in practice I've found that swap on linux tends to be pretty lousy all around. A big problem is that lots of applications do caching and such and like to expand this to the space available, often assuming they're the only thing running. I'm utterly amazed at just how much RAM chromium manages to use. I don't want it swapping out half the system to my slow swap partition when it can just re-fetch a page over my 50Mbps conn
Provided it's even possible to upgrade RAM (Score:2)
Swap was awesome back when RAM was expensive. RAM is now really cheap
Provided your device's RAM slots aren't already filled with the largest stick that your device can take. And provided your device even has RAM slots at all; a lot of smaller mobile PCs nowadays have soldered-on RAM.
Re: (Score:2)
As the good book saith, "If the cap[1] fits, wear it."
[1] not that you'd be seen dead in anything so mainstream.
just get a chromebook (Score:2)
Considering what they cost it's not worth screwing around with it.
I picked up an HP 14" Chromebook refurb for ~ $200 and it's great; it replaced a Samsung 11" and switching to the new box was as simple as logging in.
get a new u2f yubikey and make your google login 2 factor
Obligatory xkcd (Score:1, Offtopic)
https://xkcd.com/1504/ [xkcd.com]
Re: (Score:1)
https://xkcd.com/1504/ [xkcd.com]
Now go post it here: http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Argh! That's where I'd MEANT to post it. :-(
Re: (Score:1)
Argh! That's where I'd MEANT to post it. :-(
I had just made a comment in the opportunity rover story when i read yours here - it was obvious for where you intended it to be, and because i liked it (it was THE obligatory xkcd!) i tried to notify you (not before struggling with my personal little evil demon that pressed me to just steal it and post it myself...) - anyway, this post was made by someone else after all (since it was THE obligatory xkcd!).
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for trying anyway. :-) My bad, not getting back to /. until two days later.
(Funny thing: five minutes ago I saw someone else do the exact same thing that I did: posting a comment in one story that was intended for another. So I still feel dumb, but less *uniquely* dumb.)
Re: (Score:1)
Lubuntu? (Score:1)
If you just want to make the older lappies useable, I'd try Lubuntu. I have it running on an old Celeron M 420 (CPU mark - 345!) and it's totally workable. You have all the Ubuntu packages available, but the basic install is reasonably trim.
Many of the polished nice features in Chrome OS... (Score:1)
...are not Open Source and You will not be able to get them. If you want Chrome OS for its finish and features buy a ChromeBook.
If you want to reuse an older laptop get a newer SSD for it and install a LXDE based distro.
All I want for christmas is a dumb terminal (Score:3)
No hardware or software requirements?
Perhaps this is more your speed:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyse-W... [ebay.com]
ChromeOS + SSH client (Score:1)
The Secure Shell extension for Chrome gets you a usable terminal and SSH client. If you need to edit files locally, vim is available too, along with several text editors. There are a couple of git clients floating around if you want to edit stuff with source control.
This isn't such a good option for me. I use LaTeX on my chromebook and want to compile stuff. I want to use sed and awk and wc. I currently use Crouton, though I'm probably going to install Chromixium instead.
Stop enabling swap (Score:3)
it also seems to do well with low-memory systems (lots of the current models have just 2GB, which brings many Linux distros to a disk-swapping crawl), and starts up nicely quick.
I am in the midst of building a CarPC right now, as parts trickle in from far-flung regions of the globe, which is to say mostly HK. I'm saving my money for the display so it's a budget build based on a Boxer DA078L motherboard. I downgraded the processor to IIRC a X2 3800+ from a 3900+ because the specific processor model I ordered had almost 30W lower TDP, bringing the total system TDP down well under 100W which meant I could use a PicoPSU 120. I haven't tested my el cheapo 300W (headroom! which I will leave unused) boost-buck regulator yet, that's next. It has 2GB of RAM and I installed Kodibuntu, then installed navit. It comes with chromium and I am running the system on an 8GB CF card, currently in a USB adapter and soon in a SATA adapter. Maybe someday I'll buy it a real SSD but again, this is just a pocket change build based on something I had already. A $8 low-profile AM2/3 cooler is coming.
Why care? I can run Kodi and navit at the same time with no problems, using compiz as my window manager. and it can easily run chromium under LXDE. And I have no swap whatsoever. It would be dog-slow on my CF card (It's a "133X" Transcend, whatever that means) and I don't want to beat up my flash device anyway.
2GB is a lot of RAM. It seems like it isn't because of all the crap we run these days. But 2GB will actually go hilariously far if you use a limited desktop environment, or in fact none at all. If you just put the smallest Linux you can come up with (puppy?) into a partition with chromium, make init keep X running and make X keep chromium running, you'll have what you're looking for. I presume the only reason to want this is to have it as a multiboot option, since as others have said, if you wanted an actual chromebook you would have bought one. To come back around to my long introductory paragraph, I installed Kodibuntu when I wanted automotive navigation. That seems dumb, but it makes sense in the view of trying not to buy stuff. I also wanted more CPU power and didn't care about GPU power, so it made sense to me not to buy a Pi 2 and use a turnkey solution [blogspot.com]. (That's where I got the pointer to the skin I'm using.)