Ask Slashdot: Are There Any Alternatives To Android Or iOS? 304
An anonymous Slashdot reader is asking whether or not there are any alternatives to Android or iOS smartphones: Like most of us, I've owned a few smartphones over time, ranging from a Nokia E71 to a Samsung Android phone and now, an Apple iPhone. It is close to phone upgrade time, and I've been reviewing the features that I use on my phone. When I think honestly about it, the only features I really need are:
1. Phone calls (loads of conference calls, for which I use a wired headset with a microphone)
2. SMS Messaging (unlimited on my plan)
3. Navigation (very important, and is probably the most-used app on my phone)
4. Occasional internet browsing
All of this could be done by the Nokia E71, when Nokia Maps was a thing. If I want to move away from Apple, Google and the like, do I have any options now? Are there any trustable (and by trustable, I mean avoiding unknown Chinese manufacturers) phones in the market today that could do all four and (ideally) have better battery life than one day?
1. Phone calls (loads of conference calls, for which I use a wired headset with a microphone)
2. SMS Messaging (unlimited on my plan)
3. Navigation (very important, and is probably the most-used app on my phone)
4. Occasional internet browsing
All of this could be done by the Nokia E71, when Nokia Maps was a thing. If I want to move away from Apple, Google and the like, do I have any options now? Are there any trustable (and by trustable, I mean avoiding unknown Chinese manufacturers) phones in the market today that could do all four and (ideally) have better battery life than one day?
First Post? (Score:5, Informative)
Not anymore, anyway (Score:2, Interesting)
Happy owner of a WinPhone here. Dated, sure. Fewer apps, sure. But compared to the iOS and Android phones I'm helping other people with on a daily basis, I find it easier to use. But I may be biased... by my better phone.
Re:Not anymore, anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
It had potential, don't get me wrong; and if Microsoft hadn't screwed every single pooch they encountered on their journey with Windows Phone, I'm sure it would be a real winner, but...
Its dead, Jim.
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Re:Not anymore, anyway (Score:5, Funny)
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What in the fuck are you talking about? "Hopes and dreams?" I'm talking about a phone.
I'm talking about behavior patterns of intelligent and successful individuals, and adopting a dead platform is not one of those patterns.
You're going to have to switch platforms in 2 years, one way or the other. End of life is when you start moving off of a platform, not when you adopt it; the 2.5 years of "support" Microsoft has pledged Windows phone is intended to allow current users enough time to migrate to another solution.
Re:Not anymore, anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
If you use any apps, you clearly haven't considered that you might need some time to find suitable replacements, or you really don't actually use them enough to care about potential substantial workflow changes. Having migrated from Blackberry to iOS to Android, I've been around the block a couple times; if you have some app that does some function a certain way, it takes time to sift through all the available apps on your new platform that perform that function, in order to find one that has the options you need and works the way you need it to.
Again, though, if all you care about is the most basic of functionality, sure, stick with Windows Phone. That's all you'll have when MS pulls the plug and, really, you don't even need a smartphone for those functions; most feature phones will perform those tasks, including GPS now, with multiple days of battery life.
For someone who actually uses a smartphone as a smartphone, adopting a dead platform is simply beyond idiotic and suggesting it as an option is either ignorant, malicious, or both.
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Successful people use what works and stick with it for as long as it will continue working for the foreseeable future so, yes, most of them do end up sticking with outdated (but still fully functional and, likely, supported by s
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How could I have forgotten about Microsoft? (Score:2)
Good comment, though I think you deserve funny mods for your closing joke more than insightful for stating the obvious. To really show insight, you needed to say more about why Microsoft can't do small.
My theory is that the fundamental problem is that Microsoft had their head wrapped around the BIG OS model, and never recovered. Small is not their thing, but for phones smaller is just better and the ridiculously over-capable OS was a bad thought pattern.
However, in accord with my other comment, I would also
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I went with "nothing" a long time ago. My life is okay. Really.
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Happy owner of a WinPhone here. Dated, sure. Fewer apps, sure. But compared to the iOS and Android phones I'm helping other people with on a daily basis, I find it easier to use. But I may be biased... by my better phone.
Windows phone is a brick without a Microsoft account. You literally can't do anything on it without an account and with one everything is online with no recourse. It's impossible to do something as simple as configure a local address book or simple calendar that is not forcibly uploaded to Microsoft.
Neither can you use wifi or devices local GPS without being forced to contribute to crowdsourced location bullshit and tell Microsoft where you are. It is literally impossible.
Windows Phone is probably worse
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This is not true, Windows 10 Mobile allows you to do everything local to the phone without an account. Heck even apps update without an account in the store, and you can install "free" apps from the store without the account. If anything its the only mobile OS that DOESN'T require you to have an account to use fully.
Google still requires you to have an account to even use the play store...
Either way, this might have been true in 8.0/8.1 days but with Windows 10 Mobile (probably just going to be Windows 10 S
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Moto e4 for Verizon Prepaid at Walmart for $40 and a $4 unlock code from ebay. I just turned on one with AT&T. Search on youtube for how to. The other network prepaid versions of the e4 do not have the fingerprint scanner. Amazon sells a lock screen ad version for $99 and $130 clean unlocked one.
Re:First Post? (Score:5, Informative)
iOS and Android dominate the market today, but there are a few alternatives with potential to escape from the app/spyware hell. Silent Circle make the Blackphone, which is Android-based but with a heavy emphasis on security and privacy compared to most of the major off-the-shelf brands. Perhaps more interesting, Purism are working on the Librem 5 and recently beat their funding target by a comfortable margin, which potentially means a privacy and security focussed phone that runs a different platform entirely could be available in the not too distant future.
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As an iPhone user, what is this app/spyware hell of which you speak?
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Seriously, the answer really is no. BlackBerry OS, Windows Phone, and Palm OS all died a long time ago.
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Pretty much not at this time but Google have proven to be such deceitful political manipulators and control freaks, I expect Linux smart phones to start appearing under most brands in the next bunch of years. The can simply skip the Android Java layer and tell Google to go fuck itself, it is bound to happen, as the manufacturers seek more control over their market and that means excluding Google, they deserve to be excluded. It is inevitable, just a matter of time, some hints but likely at least a some year
Re: First Post? (Score:2)
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ASOP or Lineage OS, delete the stuff you don't want, build. It's the best and only option.
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Except not using a "smart" phone.
A fate worse than death.
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Root your phone, then you'll be able to remove all the crapware.
Re: First Post? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think rooting is a good idea nowadays. It prevents updates and you can achieve most things rooting allowed in the past without it.
I do not agree. (Score:3)
LineageOS provides an optional root package. If you apply it, and you also apply a GAPPS package, Google's Skynet/(Safetynet) will mark you forever tainted and forbid you from using Android Pay or Netflix. I don't care about either of these features, so that's what I'm doing for now.
Option B: You can also skip GAPPS and run without Google. If you load F-Droid, you can use the Yalp app to pull non-GMS (Google Mobile Services) based apps out of Google Play for use on a non-Google version of LineageOS.
Linea
Re: First Post? (Score:4, Interesting)
Root your phone, then you'll be able to remove all the crapware.
Actually, no.
The problem with this is that the worst of the crapware (like Adups' garbage) is tied into the OS itself. So while, theoretically you could remove it...you're talking about altering the OS itself at a very low level. And that brings a host of other problems based around maintenance. New Android version from the manufacturer to address vulnerabilities? Get ready to hack the OS all over again and perform surgery to remove the bad parts...assuming that they are where they were last time. Have a problem with something not working right? Could be from the changes you made...but it's hard to tell and good luck getting any technical support at all. And all of this first requires that a person be a guru on the inner workings of Android, which is a pretty tall order; I would think that someone asking about phone variants out there isn't one of these people, because everyone who is a bona fide Android developer (developer of Android itself...not apps for the Android OS) is pretty plugged-in to the cellphone industry.
There is a difference between "technically possible" and "actually feasible."
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Which Samsung phone? I’m looking at a cheap smartphone when traveling overseas and Samsung phones can be found pretty cheaply.
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Which Samsung phone? I’m looking at a cheap smartphone when traveling overseas and Samsung phones can be found pretty cheaply.
Moto e4 for Verizon Prepaid at Walmart for $40 and a $4 unlock code from ebay. Removable battery and SD card slot up to 128GB. Near stock 7.1.1.
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Disable the application. You can disable any pre-installed application by standard Android means or any application using Package Disable Pro app.
BTW, I've yet to see a system app with pop-up ads on Samsung, are you sure it is one indeed? What phone is it and what carrier?
Re: First Post? (Score:2)
I agree completely, I was gobsmacked when I saw I default app had ads and a paid version.
I still use it though, so I go to Settings->Apps->Peel Remote->Notifications set to Blocked. Fixed!
I've had to do this for a large number of Apps to keep interaction with the phone on my terms, not the other way around. It can tell me when I get a call or a message, the rest I look at when I please.
windows phone? (Score:3)
You could probably snag a Nokia Lumia from target or amazon or something and save several hundred dollars; provided those are actual needs.
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My $50 Lumia 640 with WP8.1 could do all of that beautifully, and works with band 12 on Tmobile...except the web browser was falling too far behind for my needs. So I updated to WP10. It has more features and the browser works much better, though the UI was a bit of step backwards in usability, mostly around things getting smaller and more complicated. I have no issue with missing apps. I may pick up a used Idol4s when they get under $100.
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Windows phone (Score:3, Funny)
Tizen (Score:2, Informative)
Tizen. Samsung Z2/Z3 you can get one on Amazon. They don't have a large amount of apps, but they have all of the things you really need.
Blackberry! (Score:2, Interesting)
Custom Android ROM (Score:5, Interesting)
Ubuntu Touch/Mobile failed, Microsoft is closing shop on Windows 10 Mobile.
Honestly your best bet would be a phone that you can root, and put a stripped-down custom Android ROM on it. You don't need to connect to any Google Play services to get all the basics. At least that way you get to pick your configuration and keep it minimal.
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Ubuntu Touch/Mobile failed, Microsoft is closing shop on Windows 10 Mobile.
Honestly your best bet would be a phone that you can root, and put a stripped-down custom Android ROM on it. You don't need to connect to any Google Play services to get all the basics. At least that way you get to pick your configuration and keep it minimal.
There is LineageOS, it's a replacement (?) for cyanogenmod https://forum.xda-developers.c... [xda-developers.com]
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now you have to diff it against a signed official source tree and review every line, while paying special attention to undefined behavior and "innocent" looking typos (think: underhanded C contest entries by the people I warned about in the first paragraph).
Do you likewise do that for a PC operating system?
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99% good enough (Score:5, Interesting)
Sometimes, don't you just want a phone that may not do absolutely everything, but otherwise generally just works? Aren't you old enough to not need to put up with half-assed shit any more?
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What are those standard you speak of?
I can understand if you just don't want to think about it at all, but then... why are you here? Please hand in your geek card.
Perhaps you can get a new card from the I've-seen-the-world crowd down the main stream.
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I've never been that impressed with the experience provided by these multibillion dollar corporations.
Despite all is their resources, they mostly deliver lipstick on a pig. With a custom ROM, at least it's mostly MY pig.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the whole fiasco with the Intel ME, but there are concerns about smartphones for pretty much the same reason. Like there have been bugs found in the ME. So there may be bugs in the phone's firmware as well.
https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/... [eff.org]
Absolutely ... (Score:2)
... a book.
Sailfish on Sony Xperia (Score:5, Informative)
Sailfish by Jolla [jolla.com], on either the Sony Xperia or any of a number [jolla.com] of other phones as aftermarket.
Re: Sailfish on Sony Xperia (Score:2)
I've wanted to try Sailfish just for the BTRFS support, but it's not supported on any phone that I actually want to use.
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I've had a number of Jolla devices. My wife has a Jolla phone. If I were on the market today for a new phone, I'd be running Sailfish. The guys at Jolla are building genuine independence and, by being relatively obscure, I think manage to keep things secure yet flexible. Much of my work is in Linux admin and to be able to do that work, natively, straight off my phone is a joy.
Word of warning: it's like Linux on the desktop - it works really well but you need to engage your brain. There is no easy way of syn
Re: Sailfish on Sony Xperia (Score:3)
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I so wanted Sailfish OS to work and ran it on a Nexus 5 for about six months before I threw in the towel. The problem is that sometimes I really NEED my phone to work and, in a couple of cases, the Nexus 5 adaptation of Sailfish OS let me down.
Also, even though I got my money back, I don't trust Jolla after the Tablet crowdfunding disaster.
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Cheap Windows phone (Score:3, Informative)
Any cheapo windows phone will do all that just fine. The built-in map app is great for navigation, even without internet.
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Not sure why you got a funny mod here. Windows Phone allows you to download maps for your region onto the device so you can navigate in areas with poor/no coverage.
The E71 still does ALL that... (Score:5, Informative)
Provided you load up The Garmin APP, and get the maps from OpenStreetMaps, and OperaMini
More seriously though, the market has spoken, and there are only three platforms:
iOS 18% Installed base.
Google's Android with PlayStore/Services 55%
AOSP (Android Open Source Ports) 27%
the rest of the platforms (WindowsPhone10, BlackBerry's BB10, WebOS, Bada) are pretty much roundng errors.
WP10 will be supported (including security patches) until 2020. BB10 will be "zombie supported" (no mention of security patches) until 2020 as well. The other two, I do not know.
So, pick your poison wisely; for there is pretty much no escape.
But, if you are hellbent on not being on neither iOS, nor any flavour of Android, then, for your specific use case, I'd bet either on Bada (Samsung has big pockets to keep the platform going for a while), or a "Smarther than a featurephone, but dumber thn a smartphone" asha-type phone from HMD (the owners of the Nokia brand).
PS: My last four phones were a Nokia E71 like you (which I still keep around as my Garmin), then a Nokia N9, then a Blackberry Q10, then a Blackberry keyONE (android, current one), but I had a mobile phone in some capacity since 1996 (Motorola AMPS, then ericsson AMPS, then Sony AMPS, then nokia 6119, then nokia 7110, then Ericsson-Symbian-but-I-forget-cause-I-was-mugged, then Nokia 7250i, then some no-name huawei). So I kinda speak from experience.
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The Nokia N9 was a staggeringly good phone. I still wonder what would have happened if Nokia had thrown its weight behind it rather than behind the (at the time) pretty poor Windows Phone.
I feel your pain... (Score:2)
Before I picked up my current phone, I looked at a (slightly used) Nokia 808 Pureview. I wanted decent sized screen, a phone, messaging, and a great camera with flash, and with the ability to get info from/to my computer. A decent browser would be nice to use in place of some apps (in the case of the 808). That was pretty much it.
In the end, even the Carl Zeiss lens with a 41 megapi
Here's a comparison: (Score:5, Informative)
Betteridge (Score:3)
ubports and Sailfish are probably your best bets if you want to flash a custom firmware to a small base of supported handsets.
Nope. (Score:2)
Windows Phone is dead (arguable whether it is a good alternative). Samsung was working on a clean-sheet mobile OS, but hasn't launched anything with it as far as I know.
Mobile devices have become virtually indistinguishable from each other within the phone and tablet categories other than OS and screen size. I gave up on getting a new smartphone because nothing has a hardware keyboard anymore... everything is a super-thin slab of touchscreen-only monotony packed with inevitably over-spec'd hardware drivin
Come on... (Score:4, Insightful)
From what you're telling us, you have very modest requirements, albeit not quite modest enough to use a plain old candy bar phone.
Now as a non-tech geek, which is what this profile is screaming, why would you not want to go mainstream? iOS and Android is mainstream. They are readily available. There are tons of resources on how to use them. They have apps available should the need arise. Going out of mainstream is for early adopters, for tech geeks, for people with non-mainstream needs. There's a reason why Android and iOS dominate. THEY WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE.
Phones for the 1% (Score:3)
You're a rare breed, using your smartphone primarily as a phone (!!!) and secondarily for other things.
[quote]1. Phone calls (loads of conference calls, for which I use a wired headset with a microphone)
2. SMS Messaging (unlimited on my plan)
3. Navigation (very important, and is probably the most-used app on my phone)
4. Occasional internet browsing[/quote]
GIven you're not using Signal, #1 and #2 can be handled by any cheap handset.
Navigation is a function of whose data you want to use. The most accurate data is provided by the companies that have spent the money to build the data and now want you in their ecosystem consuming it. That's Goole, Apple, and Microsoft. As an avid supporter of open source I would also bring up OpenStreetMap, but alas, it cannot compete with big money and complete datasets.
Internet browsing can be done on cheap handsets as well.
You say you work in the car with a wired headset. Use your car's nav system and get a cheap (aka Nokia) handset. It will remind you of how you used to do things back in the 1960s, and you won't be disappointed with all the modern features that scare you about IOS and Android.
Ehud
Buy the tech not into the brand (Score:5, Insightful)
2. SMS Messaging (unlimited on my plan)
Something like a better Nokia 3310 that can support calls, tethering.
3. Navigation (very important, and is probably the most-used app on my phone)
A portable GPS unit with free new map support.
4. Occasional internet browsing
A quality laptop using any OS you like.
No android or apple OS needed.
Buy real devices that support what is needed as part of their design.
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4. Occasional internet browsing
A quality laptop using any OS you like.
That'd be fine if companies still made 10.1" laptops designed to run desktop operating systems. That size ended production in December 2012 [slashdot.org], and bulkier laptops need a bigger, more visible bag.
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Trust is gone (Score:2)
The internet is a cesspool, the big tech corps are vampires, and no, there is no anything that you can trust. The internet is over. Net neutrality is over. Sorry, but there it is.
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What's under discussion isn't "the internet", but rather a particular type of client. One can use the internet without using a mobile device.
Which is not to make the claim that the internet is not a cesspool, but just staying away from mobile phones will help you dodge some of the turds.
If you're first thought is "Oh my god, how will I upload photos of my lunch to facenorth?" you have bigger problems than the state of the internet.
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The internet is a cesspool
I don't agree. Internet is not a cesspool, yet ; but it dangerously moves in that direction.
There are some, one is kinda viable (sort of) (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably the most viable phone OS is Legacy OS, which is just an open source version of Android. You can install it, and provided you don't instal gapps, it is pretty secure. It also gives you complete control over your phone. Legacy OS + Fdroid gives you a FOSS solution that protects your privacy about as well as any OS for a tracking device can.
There is also the openmoko stack from a few years ago. If you can get your hands on a Neo FreeRunner, they are an acceptable phone. You'll be on your own for software though, as that project is effectively dead.
No matter what you do, you can't really trust a phone completely. The nature of the cell network means that any cellphone is a defacto tracking device. Your whereabouts are logged, and because you have shared them with a third party you have no expectation of privacy. They don't even require a warrant for law enforcement. Also, private citizens can simply purchase the location data from most providers. So keep that in mind. I carry a phone, but I am ready to stick it in a microwave and run from it at a moment's notice.
Re: There are some, one is kinda viable (sort of) (Score:2)
Probably the most viable phone OS is Legacy OS
Legacy OS is a lightweight linux distro for very old computers. I think you mean LineageOS.
which is just an open source version of Android.
Android is also an open source version of android.
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LINEAGE OS! I keep doing that! Legacy OS has been in brain longer. Lineage is the successor of Cyanogenmod. It is a completely Open Source build of android, and by default does not come with GAPPS.
Re: There are some, one is kinda viable (sort of) (Score:2)
Yeah, I use lineage myself.
I used to run all kinds of AOSP based ROMs (and yes, AOSP is also open source) but I found Lineage to be the most reliable overall.
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See, they call it a "smart phone", because it's the phone that's smart.
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Doesn't even have to be a smart phone. If you are wandering around with a StarTac folder in your pocket you still log in to cell towers as you go about your business.
Purism - linux phone in development (Score:2)
Librem 5 from purism is a linux phone in development. [1]
Sure, it's not shipping for another year, but the company has shipped plenty of (well-regarded) linux laptops, and even gone so far as to figure out how to shut off intel's AMT in their newer machines. [2]
[1] https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ [puri.sm]
[2] https://puri.sm/learn/avoiding... [puri.sm]
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If you really use for calls, get iOS/Android (Score:2)
1) iOS/Android both have roboblockers. If you really value calls so much don't you want to avoid false ones?
1) If you do conference calls a lot, you WILL want the full range of possible conferencing apps - I have to do audio calls along with three (sometimes four) different types of video conference through a week.
1) Just get a real phone.
I left all the numbers the same as they all relate to calling.
2) Why not also be able to use any other messaging option that may become popular, like WhatsApp?
2) Get a re
Alternative to Android/iOS (Score:3)
Not yet, but there will be in 2019.
The Librem [puri.sm] phone hits all of my requirements, and will be my next phone in 2019. It's not cheap, but its feature set is awesome. Some highlights (in no particular order):
1) Runs pure Linux, which allows for installing many standard Linux distributions.
2) Has hardware kill switches for the radio and microphone.
3) Encrypted calls between Librem phones.
4) No tracking.
There are other great features, too. It's the phone I've been waiting for since I first discovered smartphones.
Windows Phone (Score:2)
Nope. (Score:3)
If you are looking for something modern, with latest specs, short answer - nope.
If it can be an older device, for known chinese manufacturers (because all phones are manufactured in China to a degree), your only bet is probably a Windows Phone... which has been discontinued and is currently in a limbo.
Other than that, Ubuntu Touch is dead, there are some few privacy minded mobile distros still out there, but most options will require you to: install the OS yourself, pre-order something that is still not out, have a hard time actually buying a phone, and/or perhaps trust a company that will probably be making their phone with an unknown chinese manufacturer anyways.
It's also worth noting that lots of companies tried to come up with either a hardened Android version for privacy, or a Linux distro that would run on a mobile device. It didn't work out too well, either because of technical limitations and speed smartphones are evolving, or for lack of costumers and support.
I wouldn't recommend going for any small company alternatives right now because long term support is definitely not guaranteed.
Since you have so little requirements, might as well delegate navigation and browsing to another device, and just buy a dumbphone.
Sacrilege! Also an excellent question! (Score:2)
In particular, I find your explicit description of your needs and implicit philosophy are highly simpatico. Alas, I think the answer is no, for religious reasons, as just proven by the tax "reform" legislation we [Americans] are in the process of receiving.
In a capitalist economy, there would be a number of competing options and we would have meaningful choice and freedom. The side effect of that competition might even drive meaningful improvements rather than the current insane defense of profit maximizati
Which is more important? (Score:2)
a) being able to tell everyone who doesn't care that you're sticking it to the corporations by not having an Android or iOS device
b) having the best tool for the job.
You can do everything you ask on other devices sure, but it won't be as good.
Specifically mapping and navigation which you list as your most important requirement, you simply can not beat google maps for that, and you won't get that on some random non-android and non-ios device. Sure there are various other mapping options, but for most up to d
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I think you're reversing the roles here. My self-esteem is NOT based on the brand of phone, so I don't have to go around explaining to everyone why I chose a non-Android non-iOS device, and can instead just get on with doing whatever task it is that I'm trying to do, knowing that whatever app I need will exist for my platform.
The OP on the other hand seems to be more invested in the brand of the phone "It's NOT an Android!" or "It's NOT an iPhone" rather than just picking the tool that will best do the job
Two (lame) choices (Score:2)
2. Use a portable WiFi hotspot with Google Voice and an iPod Touch. I have a data plan with a Straight Talk device and use Google Voice for texts. I don't get many calls, and that's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it.
Moto Android phones (Score:2)
Removable battery.
Removable SD card.
Easily bootloader-unlocked.
The G4 Play and G5 rock socks, and are some of the best phones for the price -- $100-200 -- out there.
LineageOS (Score:2)
Would love to see a Linux phone running normal Linux + Wayland rather than Android yet without all the Google spyware (Google Play Services) Android by itself is really not that bad. It is for the most part just Linux. You can cross compile whatever you want without much trouble.
Currently best bet is to find a phone supported by Lineage OS (formerly Cyanogenmod) where you don't have to go through hoops to crack locked boot loaders and extraneous BS. Google play is not included by default with Lineage OS
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Canonical Touch is dead but the project lives on, by volunteers, at ubports.com
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I'll second this. I know I'm an extreme edge case but I want a 'dumb' OpenBSD brick phone.
Dumb phone by day. OpenBSD LTE router by tether.
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