What do you Need to Start an ISP 45
This Anonymous Coward asks:
"I am interested in what kinds of things
are needed to start and run an ISP.
Where can I go to get info on the programs,
hardware, etc. necessary? I have the
computer background and the place to do it
profitably but need some help!"
Some good info (Score:1)
Well I have looked into starting a Internet Service provider, and I know what is involved.
1. You need a 10mbs T3 or faster, a T1 will not cut it.
2. You need a Nice computer (IE: 2x P2 300mhz, 512 megs of ram, 9+ gigs of H-drive, etc..)
3. You should run BSDI for the OS, it is very stable.
4. You need 4+ phone lines, and a main number so your phone system can switch the people so you wont have lots of busy signals (ie: old AOL)'
5. You need to offer more than just Internet dial up. Like have web hosting, Server co-location, shell, etc..)
6. You need to advertise in local papers, and Billboards (if you have the money).
7. You also need people for technical support, and people that can service the computers.
Those are most of the things in starting a internet service. I dont know about what software and other hardware you need, but that is all I was told I needed when I look into it.
Some good info (Score:1)
I think you're both a bit off, here...
People here are saying one thing is wrong, yet endorsing it the next three lines down.
Four lines is fine for someone who only has 10 users max, but if you only have 10 max people dialing in, well, for the sake of you not parting with your wallet get a colocated server and offer var accounts.
Its just not even worth getting into the business if that's all the business you plan on doing. Coming from the standpoint of an ISP that started with a T1, now serving up multiple T3s and offering every service available including DSL, starting small is one thing - but 10 users, that just isn't even worth the effort.
Creating an ISP is a very expensive venture, which is why not everyone with the know-how is getting into it; there's so much involved, above and beyond what everyone here has said.
My suggestion is to find the most successful local provider there is in your town, then rack their brain and get stories from them on how they got to where they are. Then you'll understand what's REALLY involved...
Be Unique! Be an OSP! (Score:1)
The posts that have mentioned 'niche market' have hit the nail on the head. Okay, this is a UK centric view-point but unless you are a major player with 10m pounds you've not a prayer in the ISP poker game.
There _is_ a market for good _web_ services. Instead of an ISP set up an OSP - Online Service Provider. You host companies' sites (boring) but offer rdbms enabled web applications (ka-ching!).
You need a T1 (get the ISP to provide the router); a web server and a database server (with all the sensible bits like a UPS and tape backup - see ORA's 'Web Security & Commerce').
Run an application server on the web server. Now you need a Web Designer (aka graphic designer); a Web Developer (Java, JavaScript, RDBMS) and a Project Manager. Provide e-commerce / extranet solutions or just sites with excellent interactivity.
My lot do this and, forgive the evangelising, I think this is going to be fun _and_ profitable. Off-topic? A little, but I don't think ISP is the way to go, so let's call it a constructive suggestion.
You think so? (Score:1)
First three rules of business:
Location, location, location
Not Worth It (Score:1)
cable or adsl service soon, I suggest not even starting. Find something else internet related, like webhosting, etc...
Be Unique! (Score:1)
Yes, that is possible. There are many areas that "traditional" ISPs either passively or actively refuse to provide. (eg: Multicasting, IPv6, Quality of Service protocols).
These alone WON'T be enough. Most customers won't care about the latest network techo-gismos.
BUT, if you can find a novel way to exploit new network technologies to provide a UNIQUE, NOVEL service... THEN the customers will be interested.
Also, the competition will be ruled out. BY using technology they won't touch with a 10' barge pole, they can't duplicate any novel service you've built around it.
THAT is the best chance you have of playing the ISP game and winning.
A sysadmin... (Score:1)
If you're not one, go out and hire one.
It's a Service Business! (Score:1)
The one thing that can't be emphasized enough to anyone thinking of jumping into the ISP game, though, is that ISP stands for Internet Service provider. It's a service business, just like a maid service or an automobile repair shop. What this means in practical terms is that your staff (and you, initially, unless you've got alot of capital) are going to spend 95% of your time on repetitive customer support and maintenance tasks. Too many ISPs have been started by people who like to set up and tinker with the internet and computers, without realizing ahead of time that that only represents a small fraction of the work involved in running an ISP.
well, well... (Score:1)
phone lines (Score:1)
How to connect (Score:1)
Not Worth It (Score:1)
I live in Orlando, FL. There are approximately 1.4 million people in this metropolitan area.
Miami, Jacksonville, and Tampa all have cable modems, but the big cable modem providers say it will be 7 years or more before they'll move in.
In 7 years, I could start an ISP with nothing but venture capital, build it up to thousands of users, sell it to MPINet, and live off my earnings for a few years. Assuming my credit didn't suck as badly as it does.
There are lots of other big cities where this is true.
Plus, you can cover a lot of rural cities in the same state really cheaply by just linking them together with a network of cheap T1s. Point-to-point links are not expensive over such short distances, and you are only paying a provider for one link.
Rent a room from a backbone provider's POP in a nearby metro, run a few T1s out to rural towns with no ISP (or a crappy ISP), set up a few cheap Linux boxes at each POP to do RADIUS and Squid proxying, and you'll clean up.
In a few years one of the big providers will buy you out. You won't make enough to retire, but you'll make enough to buy some nice computers, a nice car, a nice house, and a reputation for building ISPs. Then you hire yourself out as a consultant to people like the doofus who thought you needed a T3.
you forgot the most important thing (Score:1)
Most telcos will knock off the installation charge if you sign a really long contract.
Set your company up as an LLC first, before you do anything.
Then sign 5 year contracts for the data circuit and phone circuits.
If your business succeeds, you'll need the line for all 5 years. If your business fails, you just declare bankruptcy and they can't come after your personal assets.
You can shave a few thousand off the initial costs this way. Plus it'll save your butt when some idiot builds his business web page with FrontPage and then erases his own HD and can't edit the page any more, and decides to sue.
My advice: (Score:1)
I'm assuming that you will ignore that bit of advice, so here's what I'd do if I was starting again.
#1, have $50,000 in capital available. Not necessarily cash in the bank, but liquid that you can draw on.
#2, choose your provider. Negotiate the best deal you can get with them. If you know Telco stuff, purchase your own T1 to the provider. If they have frame relay available, make use of it. Full T1 for resale should run between $1500 and $3000/month total (Port from ISP and T1 cost) depending on whether you have to cross LATA's or not.
#3, shop for your equipment.
For your core router, choose Cisco period. No flames please. I've used Livingston, Engage, Cisco, Bay, Emerging Technologies, and Sangoma. From what I've found:
Livingston is good for general use, but the IRX series doesn't support full duplex on the 10BaseT port or have support for bridge interfaces over frame relay. Almost a requirement if you want to support ADSL.
Engage is cheap, and includes a CSU with the router, but it's limited on what you can configure.
Not many Bay users out there to draw on for support.
The guy that builds Emerging Technologies boards for PC's has poor support for Linux, and doesn't want to talk to anything not running Cisco HDLC. (It will work with PPP over HDLC, but not stable.)
Sangoma has good support for Linux, but they are difficult to configure if you've never done it before.
Cisco seems to be the most flexible for different configurations.
For access equipment, either 3Com/US Robotics or Livingston Portmaster 3. Both are about $10,000. You bring in a digital T1 to them and you're done. If available, ask your Telco for ISDN PRI lines rather than DCS. PRI's are 23 lines, where DCS gives you 24 but PRI's allow your equipment to talk to the phone switch with out-of-band signaling rather than having to use the same channel for data and phone call. Just easier to troubleshoot.
I personally like the US Robotics equipment. V.90/X2 I think is a more reliable technology. If you're looking to connect a lot of low-end modems, you might want to go with a 56Kflex based modems in the Livingston box. Personal preference.
You might also want to look at Ascend equipment. They seem to have the best VoIP implementation right now if that's important to you.
For servers, you want at least 3 to start with.
#1, Primary Name Server/Backup Authentication server
#2, Secondary Name Server/Primary authentication server
#3, User E-Mail/Web Server
#4, Buy your billing software. If you don't have an automated billing system, you're GOING to fall behind, and start loosing money. Check out usenet "info.inet.access" for information on different billing packages. Don't scrimp on this step. You want online signup, automatic account creation, etc.
#5, Advertise. You've got the basics, so now you need to get customers to pay for the equipment.
Cost Breakdown:
Router and CSU/DSU $2500
Access Server $10,000
10MB Switched Ethernet hub $500
Servers w/Linux 3@$1500 each $4500
Install on T1 and Phone Lines $7500-$10,000
Billing software and server $4000
Total Startup cost: $29,000-$31,500
Monthly costs:
T1 to ISP $2500
Telco T1 $900
Advertising $600
Total Monthly cost: $4000
To cover expenses you need 200 customers. However, at about 140 customers you are going to start running into busy signals and have to purchase a second T1 from the Telco. Add another 45 customers to break even.
This doesn't even cover staffing costs, etc. You can put about 220 dialup ports to a single T1. This translates to ~1700 customers before you need to bring in a second data T1. Using a caching server saves you about 20% on bandwidth. Expect to gain a maximum of 50 accounts per month for the first 6 months. You may do better, but your numbers should always be conservative. Figure that you are going to run through the rest of the 50K before you break even. Also, your first users are going to be the people who consider unlimited access to be a 7x24 connection. Until you get up to ~96 ports, your modem ratio is going to have to be about 6.75 to one. Above 96 ports, you can run ~8 to 1. Forget the old 10:1 ratio. People are spending more time online now. Once you have to go above 48 ports, you will have to buy more hardware for your access server. Usually another 10K.
Also realize that you are probably not going to pull enough users to become a target for a buy-out. You're not going to get rich running an ISP at this stage in the game. It's for the most part going to be a hobby, and a way for you to get T1 access for yourself. Consider the competition you are going up against. You need a hook to bring customers in. Is it custom programming? Online Gaming? Web Hosting? If you can't find a niche, your going to get creamed.
Sorry for the length, but I saw too much misinformation posted, and wanted to get some real facts out.
Dan
To start an ISP? (Score:1)
:)
Forget it!! But.. (Score:1)
There's also always space in the business for a web presence provider. Where you only offer web space.. Then just offer space for cheap..
The Niche ISP (Score:1)
A little over the top!!! (Score:1)
I am a systems engineer, and we have a 750 client nt4 server for our intranet, there are two p-166 with 256 megs ram, that's 750 users, at least 400 simultaniously.... and that's a lan, serving apps, data and web access through fiber optic leased line... not a dialup server... all a dialup server does is authenticate passwords, route data and store e-mail. I am friends with the sysop of a local isp... they have a 1500 users, which is respectible... here is what they have.
- a decent pentium class computer (166 or 200 is nice) with at least 64 mb ram (it's cheap so go with 128). You can get buy with a 2 gig hard drive at first if you are just going to provde dialup access and e-mail. (5 megs for user record, 10 megs for e-mail, and 5 megs for web space) so count on having 20 megs at least for each user. IDE drives will do, but scsi is better because you can RAID controll them, that way if one drive dies the other will just keep on truckin, the system will never know the diff. I have mirrored IDE drives in NT4 but i am not sure if that can be done in linux. If you can't afford flashy raid controllers, at least get a good backup and run it on a different box (if you use a backup on the server box, it will not be able to serve during that time, so suck the files down over the lan and backup on a dedicated backup box, it only has to be a 486 if that is all it is doing)
- Most isp's i know use slackware, but BSD is a good stable choice too. You can go NT, but i would not reccomend it unless you like to give away thousands of hard earned dollars on licences and hardware.
- Apache is a good web server, and there are tons of free e-mail daemons out there. If you want to do news groups you can but it consumes a lot of cpu load, bandwidth and disk space to maintain them, you'll want a second box for news.
- Buy modems in at least a 1:8 ratio, because no one likes a busy signal (one modem for every 8 users) a 1:5 ratio is better. You will want to buy modem rack units (if you just use plain modems you have to buy special hardware to interface them all to one box) rack units will connect via NIC card and not hogg all your resouces. You of course need phone lines. Count on having at least 10 to start off. Talk to the telco about that, they will be able to tell you about there rates and services.
-Talk to your Telco about getting a leased line with a stattic IP of course. A t-1 is nice, but you can get buy with 512k frame at first. T-1's are expensive (especially if you only have 10 simultainius users). Remember that not everyone connected will be downloading 20 meg files from an ftp... Most http requests are small and infrequent, no steady drain of bandwidth.
-you need to get a domain name, talk to internic about that (about 100 bucks)
- and you should have someone that knows the OS of choice. Remeber this is going to be the backbone of your business, no time for system crashes. If your system goes down, u go down.
Hopefully that will help. I might have missed something, but i had to comment, gees, I wonder if this guy has a quad PII450 for cruisin the web and word processing. HA!
A little over the top!!! (Score:1)
it's more than engineering... (Score:1)
if you are looking to startup a small thing for your friends, defining your target configuration is pretty trivial. marketing is a NOOP, your churn rate is not an issue, and if you're lucky, they might be just as technically qualified as yourself.
but if you're looking to enter the market competitively, your problems have compounded...
* choose a market that's under-tapped or overpriced. if you have the choice of location, start in a remote market and learn the ropes at your pace, not the pace of Goliath.
* add service offering that's a visible improvement over the competition. traditionally, customers will switch products if it's a couple times better. in the ISP marketplace, however, it seems to take only marginal service improvement.
* do pre-launch marketing. launching your ISP with 20 to 50 sign-ups a day in your first week feels wonderful.
* customer service makes a difference -- both positively and negatively. albeit cold, if you spoon feed your customers, they don't learn how to feed themselves. but you'll lose new subscribers if they can't figure out where the "connect" button is. being the only ISP supporting an alternate OS in a market can bring you most of those users (and wouldn't it be nice if they weren't just mouse-jockies but the self-sufficient nomadic geeks?)
* don't skimp on your front end. the all-in-one boxes that are modems and remote access servers (e.g. PortMaster3, TotalControl) that take in an ISDN PRI are a major win. it's the only way to get 56kbps (aka 53kbps), and to sanely manage multiple modems.
* stick with established and robust technology. if an OS, server, remote access server has zero user base, it effectively means you are the beta tester, and that's crippling. generally, the bulk of your customers will not differentiate between the hardware or software choices you make, merely the uptime and responsiveness. buy a shrink wrapped solution if it means you can spend your time on more customer-visible improvements. don't buy shrink wrapped solutions if you'll spend more time learning how to wrangle the product than rolling your own.
* prevent things from breaking. you must have an UPS. you must have a pager, paging software, and a monitoring daemons. but you must delegate the work or you'll miss out on important things (like a second perspective, or sleep).
* be concerned about security. turn off your OS's network-accessible bells & whistles. do your work on a different machine than your server. admit there is no such thing as a secure menu-shell. consider that any LAN can be sniffed. never share admin passwords; create separate accounts for each admin or customer service representative. containment is your friend.
* be prepared to re-engineer constantly. you don't need a full T1 the day you open, but you should keep your link's peak utilization below 50% to 80% (the threshold is dependent on how much money you have to burn). when you get a certain size, you will need to diversify your internet connections. then you may have the trauma of re-addressing all your equipment if you want diverse connections to make any difference.
* think like a business, not like a startup. pro-actively get new customers, maintain existing customers' satisfaction, expand your product line, keep a close eye on benchmarks, fix your problems promptly, and generally be ruthless.
* read http://www.amazing.com/isp/
the other 0.1% (Score:1)
one cISP i'm particularly fond of (@Home) has a subsidiary (@Work) which packages cable Internet (among other products) over the same infrastructure, with different contractual obligations. i can't say whether reselling bandwidth is permitted, though.
off-subject, one of the local burrito shops who wanted cable-TV has a 10-year-old response from a local cable company framed on the wall. it explained that because it was not a residence, the shop would have to pay the full equipment cost -- over $50,000 -- to essentially bring it across the street.
so be sure your POP is already wired for cable, and that the cISP offers a commercial product.
Protecting your choice of ISP (Score:1)
Protect our rights to chose.
getting connected (Score:1)
at www.ora.com, which goes through a
step-by-step setup of a company for
connection to the internet including
providing internet service for dial-up
and dedicated users. It's extremely useful
reading, and covers everything from
bandwidth to bind, dns to dhcp.
Good luck!
Starting an ISP (Score:1)
The second most important thing is tech support
Good luck.
What do you Need to Start an ISP (Score:1)
Ask yourself a few questions:
1) Do I Really Want To Start An ISP?
- Believe it or not there are many people who started one because someone else started one or to compete with some big company.
2) What Services Will I Offer?
- You should start out with hosting web sites and providing *nix shells, but that's up to you.
3) If I'm Doing Dialup Services, Will I Be Providing Access/Connections?
- It's okay to have the modems on your side of the connection but if you are starting out with T-1, pick a resale program from UUnet or PSInet (I can't remember any other ISP's with this option) that allows you to advertise dialup connectivity but customers are really accessing these other providers equipment. Examples include EarthLink (which uses PSInet and UUnet), Microsoft Network (which uses UUnet), etc.
4) What Operating System Should I Use?
- Use whatever operating system provides you with less heart attacks and much flexibility. If you are familiar with Windows use Windows NT, Unix use Linux or FreeBSD, etc. Every OS has their individual ups and downs.
5) What Eauipment Will I Need?
- If you are getting a high speed serial line like a T-1, start off with a Cisco 2501 Router, it has 2 ports to accomadate 2 T-1's and you can expand from there. If you are getting a dedicated ISDN line start with a Bay Networks NetGear RT328 Router, it accomodates the ISDN port and the Ethernet interface required to tie it into your LAN. You can choose modems from reliable manafacturers such as Hayes, 3Com, Diamond Multimedia, etc. (You won't need a voice modem for dialup services). If you don't want a group of individual modems get a modem bank from 3Com, its called the 3Com NetServer and it comes in 8 or 16-port configurations with optional ISDN and management capabilities. My personal choice is the Cisco 38xx Access Server Series, which have 4 module ports for easy adding of network modules such as the 30-port 56K v.90 module (1 Card!) and the PPP Compression module (your customers will experience faster rates if their software supports it), with room for expansion to 120 56K V.90 Modems in a single rack space unit.
6) What Machines Will I Need?
- You will need a domain name server for translating host addresses into IP address and vice versa. Maybe a PPP server depending on the hardware installed on your site. A web server for people to visit your site through browsers and for customers to receive quick help to their problems. A mail server is required for users to effectively send and receive e-mail, and a shell server if you resell *nix shells.
That's all for now...
Omachonu Ogali
E-Mail: omachonu.ogali@softhome.net
IRC: EFnet (irc.efnet.net) Channel #sk1llz
missnglnk@efnet
A clue (Score:1)
Maybe you should consider..... (Score:1)
I hooked up with a local ISP. I bought a server
for 2500 bucks with LInux (REDHAT) installed.
I pay him $150 bucks a month for use of his T1 and
I'm an ISP.
If you need to ask... (Score:1)
the advice of a good gu.
Secondly, these days it only makes sense to break into this new if you already have the capability, and want some return on your invest. For instance you have a huge lan with a commitment for several T3s from sprint (or whoever), are a cable provider with 1000's of subscribers, and want moolah. My advice is if you are not Sysadmin already on a huge unix network, you will be sorry. You will simply not know the nuts and bolts of how to get it up, and clueless what to do when the boogeyman cometh.
If you do decide to do this you will have a really hard time finding the area that does not have oversaturation by other ISPs or the big
ones (AOL, MSN, WORLDNET, ETC).
All_negativity_aside::ISP
2 T3s or you will never bust even.
Some decent CSU/DSU Router combo(Cisco, livingston, nile, etc).
BSDi or SunOS (get the enterprise 10000 if you $)
3Com 3900 switches.
UPS equipment hung on the ethernet(APC with SNMP).
HP Datatank AL or equivalent tape system.
Rack Mount servers or USR Edge Server racks.
Duplex everything and use seperate boxes for name server, mail server, web hosting, etc.
Some admin stations. P200s or better, for staff.
All this stuff with 3c5x9 NICS to the 3900 switch.
(I have a gigabit link from the switches to the servers, but am serving large corporate WAN). Comdial DXP (with voice mail integration) and DUs.
SNMP console software (Openview in my case).
ISP Accounting software, or write it yourself.
Advertising.
And a very big and long fire hose, lots of excedrin, and a do-it-yourself Kvorkian kit.
Good luck, you are now a time-slave.
Final note: Your entire role in life is uniterrupted acces for some phreaks access to alt.sheep.sex. -- Not to satisfying
You need two essential things (Score:1)
Then you need to get the book "Isp Survival Guide : Strategies for Running a Competitive Isp" by Geoff Huston.
Everything else that you need can be discovered from these two starting points.
--
Michael Dillon - E-mail: michael@memra.com