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Technology

The Do-It-All Remote? 239

Posted by Cliff from the could-this-be? dept.
MisterFig asks: "I, like many of you, have too many remote controls to know what to do with. One for the TV, the VCR, the Receiver, the CD player, the Cable box... you get the drift. I don't mind using them all, but is there an easier way? Sure, there are so called "Universal" remotes. But I find these often provide a very limited set of functionality for usually only a subset of my devices. Each remote has it's own special buttons and features that a Universal remote doesn't know about. So I am stuck keeping all the remotes out. Can one remote do it all? I recently came across an add for the Harman Kardon "Take Control". This is a cool remote control that is software programmable, looks really easy to use and supposedly can be programmed to do everything each of your current remotes do. Could it be? A single remote control that can control everything? It's laid out in such a way that you have activities, like "watch tv", "play a cd" or "watch a video". Clicking on the activity will setup the entertainment center to a predefined state of your choosing. This sounds too good to be true! However, it's about $300. Is it worth it? Has anyone used one of these? Are there any other remotes out there that can control everything? Including all the special buttons/features that each of the individual remotes have? " Can it be? An All-In-One remote that claims it actually WORKS?
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The Do-It-All Remote? More

The Do-It-All Remote?

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  • There's a program for the palm pilot called omniremote I believe, it's awesome and AFAIK can handle any kind of IR signal.

  • ... (Score:3)

    by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Friday November 05, 1999 @05:53PM (#1557540)
    It's called a palm pilot. It has a programmable IR port. All you need to do is make an interface that records the on-off sequence and delay (short or long) and can then repeat it. This is trivial to do even without a CPU.

    I did some experiments a long time ago back with electronics (back when I knew what a 555 IC was... heh), and I took a remote and a IR phototransistor and hooked it to an LED so I could see what it was transmitting. Almost all remotes use a system similar to morse code - that is short and long pulses seperated by a specific interval of dark.

    In principal any device which can record and play back IR signals could be used as a remote. Infact, the industry has a fairly standard set of signals to send to/from your TV - just get a all-in-one remote and look at the guide. Manufacturers document all of this. The problem is with non-standard features like "still frame" in VCRs. Play, record, stop, ff, rewind, those are all standard. Things like accessing the TV's internal "menu" system isn't.

    Hope this helps..



    --
  • What I want from a remote is an LCD panel, and a cursor, and a "select" button. The LCD panel can display the different buttons, and ONLY the relevant buttons. I hate having buttons for features I'll need once, but I also hate not having a button when I need it.

    I think Microsoft makes a remote like this.. *duck*

  • I hate to break it to you, but I believe that remote runs WinCE...

    if that is ok with you, well this remote is not vaporware, I have a friend who worked for MS who saw them floating around (hardware beta testing) before he left (he no longer works there )

    otherwise, both the palm and the HP-48x graphing calculators can be made to do this...

    it is considerably easier to do this with the palm, including programming it, as its development is considerably easier than WinCE...

    just an FYI
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
  • i thought you should no that said harrmon/kardon remote runs a microsoft product...
    yep thats right, its a basterd sibbling of WinCE
  • Found it!

    It's called the Microsoft Universal Take Control Remote, made in conjunction with Harman International.

    http://www.micro soft.com/products/hardware/takecontrol/default.htm [microsoft.com]
  • I got a catalog a while ago called "Sony Xtras Direct" or something. They have a sweet-looking remote control with a huge LCD that they claim is "a programmable, teachable remote" that can "control up to 12 different items, including teaching it to recall multiple command sequences with a single touch." They have a website, http://www.sony.com/direct/ [sony.com], but I haven't looked for it there. The quoted price is $179.99. I would think it's worth looking into, given the one you're talking about it quite a bit more expensive.

  • I don't have all the applicable information on hand, nor the article that I remember reading this in (though I think it might be at the Equip magazine site) but there are two types of programmable remotes. One type is the type that most people hear about that have a few hundred "presets" that try to emulate every proprietary remote on the market. The disadvantage, like was mentioned, is that these don't always have _every_ feature. Also, as soon as a new feature comes along, the remote becomes obsolete.

    That is why no true techie should ever buy that type of remote. The _real_ universal remote is programmable. The average lay-person is completely confused by these, as they require you to sit with all of your remotes and send the IR signal to the remote so that it can learn the appropriate signal. Hence, these remotes are generally classified as learning remotes. The down-side? Well, the learning remote has no error-checking, so "Volume up" could get programmed as "Turn on the toaster", given the right equipment. That's not a problem for most semi-knowledgable techies, though. The other downside is that, unlike preset remotes, you need a working original remote to begin. This could be a problem if you're looking for a new remote because the last one was crushed by your 2-ton Lego Mindstorms robot.

    It sounds like the remote you're looking at is a learning remote. I don't know anything about that one in particular off-hand, but you should be able to comparison shop the multiple learning remotes. I know there are decent articles about this--I'll try to find one and post a reply in this message about it.

    ~=Keelor

  • I believe it's called the One4All Theatre or something similar.

    It's a great remote, a friend of mine recommended to me. It's programmable to hold six devices, and can learn functions from other remotes.

    Plus it has several user definable macros that allow you to turn on the receiver, tv, and dvd player (in a certain order) with one click. Can also change the channel to channel 4 or make your tv go to input 1 or something.

    I know someone else with one of the $300 Sony remotes (came with his receiver though), it is basically a 5 line LCD with a scroll up/down thingie... the rest of the buttons are hidden. It's a great remote, if you can afford it, especially when you lose it in the seat cushions.

  • I wish I could remember the name, but there is a terrific system that is used in a lot of the conference rooms where I work.

    Basically, you have a touch-screen pad that has an RF transmitter. The RF transmitter communicates with a box that you put near your A/V equipment. The box has a series of wires running out of it. At the end of each wire is an IR transmitter. You velcro the transmitter near the IR window on the device you want to control and run the wire back to the RF box.

    To program the device, you basically point a remote at the IR window on the RF receiver and on the touchpad, a new button will appear. You tap out out the function name and file it under a device category.

    Now, when you tap the touchpad, it sends a RF singal back to the box which then replays the stored IR signal out through the wire to the appropriate device.

    RF means you can control pretty much everything in your house. You can also get multiple receivers for different A/V equipment. Where I work, the secretary for the high mucky-mucks has the touchpad that controls the equipment in all four of the executive conference rooms. You can even control lights with modules that wire into the receiver.

    Slick slick system, but it costs at least a couple thousand. I'm know this post doesn't really have a whole lot of useful information, but my main point is to avoid consumer products. You are going to get crap. I've seen every consumer remote out there and they are all horrible.

    Search the Internet for A/V dealers that sell high-end equipment for businesses. You will end up paying for it, but you can pretty much get a system that is perfect.

    I'll shut up now and let people post the names of such high-end A/V suppliers, or even the name of the system I just described.

    - JoeShmoe

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  • is it really necessary to have a remote that does all that? i mean, come on.
  • Above receivers ( and probably more) can not be controlled by this remote....
  • hehehe jinx, (we posted in sync)

    one comment (in addition rather)

    it appears that there is no software to make the Palm do this at this time

    This is NOT to say that the palm cannot; the ability is out-of-box;

    rather there are no apps right now that will give you a nice gui to use, and handle said signals... right now you would need to roll your own...

    if any readers end up writing one, please post it to freshmeat and palm central (and any other good palm sites)

    (freshmeat is not one, but we linux folk would like to buy you a beer as well ;-)
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
  • Omni-Remote is a nice idea, but it doesn't work well. I can use it to change all the channels on my tv, volume etc. but it refuses to turn my tv on, so you have to use the other remote. Plus it isn't freeware, and i don't have anymoney so i'm stuck with the sucky demo version.

    I still haven't found a freeware program that does the same, but i'm sure it would be a quick weekend hack to put one together(Really just copying the ir input and reflecting it to output).

    matisse:~$ cat .sig
  • If you're like me, you have a DVD and VCR. I happen to have a decent VCR, meaning there is a jog shuttle. I use this to edit, and cannot do without it. There is no universal remote that has a jog shuttle of any kind, making the whole concept of universal remote moot if you have decent video gear, let alone professional. I currently have the Marrantz remote of death (giant LCD, all of the words are changeable, unlike the Sorny universal remote), and it's great, except I can't turn off the LCD backlight (it comes on based on light changes, which means if it's windy, and it's next to the window, it goes on and off constantly) However, my model is 3 years old, and they seem to be on a newer generation of remote.
  • I think you answered your own question. :)
    -------------
  • http://st2.yahoo.net/e-town/theatunrem.html

    Got one. It's awesome. Has 8 different device
    modes, and presets for just about everything.
    And anything it doesn't have presets for, it
    can learn from your old remote. Now, if I can
    only rember what buttons I program where...

  • My suggestion is that you get a Palm III (which can be obtained VERY cheaply--CNet Shopper [cnet.com] reports that you can get one for as little as $175 new), and download and register a nifty little program called OmniRemote, which can be located at http://www.pacificneotek.com/omnisw.htm [pacificneotek.com] .

    My experience with OmniRemote is wonderful. It really does work well, and it costs a fraction of that of a Take Control remote (buying which, I might add, generously contributes to Microsoft's coffers).
  • What I want to know is when will we be able to use our computer to do stuff like turn on the stereo? I can't wait to get my house wired... What'll you think of a remote control with a button labeled "House"?
  • Unfortunately, the HP-48x calculators infrared ports don't have a very big range, something on the order of 18 inches or so. :(
  • Yes, it indeed does run a sort of windows CE variant...

    But it's still a remote, there isn't any OS per say, it might as well be transparent. It does have a microsoft look/feel, though. Another company sells the same remote, madrigal. (www.madrigal.com) It's called the IRIQ. I think they charge more, however. My friend owns one, he says it's worked pretty well for him. I haven't used it myself though so I can't speak to how good it really is.

    There is another alternative though, if you want to spend 2k or more :) There are a few companies that make remotes that don't use microsoft (well pretty much all of them), and have color LCD touch screens. They are highly customizeable as well, and will run up to 8 devices. I'm speaking of the one made by phast (www.phast.com). I'll let the website describe the rest.

    Basically you pay more money for more customizability. Check out a few issues of Home Theatre magazine, they always have ads for "universal remotes". There are a lot of options.
  • If you have a PalmPilot of some sort (I have a IIIe,) get OmniRemote, it is a God-Send. You draw all your own buttons, how you want them, you can even set up multiple "remotes", ie, different screens which you can draw any amount of buttons on you want.

    To program these buttons you simply point your remote at the palms IR port, push the button on the remote, and bam, a button on OmniRemote now does what your remote does.

    And hey, at $20, this is shareware you can afford, and will use for a LONG time!
  • I recently researched the LCD touchscreen
    remotes. The best one is the Philips
    Pronto, also sold as the Marantz RC 5000.
    Extremely cool.

    The Harmon Kardon Take Control, also sold
    as the Madrigal IRIQ is second best.

    The Sony is third, but could be called a Best
    Buy based on its price.

    Goto http://www.remotecentral.com/ for a
    bunch of great information.

    Personally, I like the DIY version: Linux
    running on a palm pilot with a home brew
    application.

  • Re: Palm Pilot (Score:3)

    by keytoe ( 91531 ) on Friday November 05, 1999 @06:14PM (#1557571) Homepage

    You don't even have to do anything to make the Palm Pilot work - there's an application called PalmRemote [palmgear.com] that'll record any IR input and play it back on demand.

    The cool thing about this is that you can have up to 14 different 'remotes' to choose from - and you get to build them the way you want by simply drawing 'buttons' on the screen. Additionally, you can assign 'macros' to buttons that trigger multiple actions. Sadly, it's not free or open source - but $20 is a far cry from $300 (and it doesn't run wince).

    Ever since I saw this, I've been wanting to head down to Circuit City and learn all of the remotes down there and then... head down to the local sports bar and keep hitting the 'all TVs to the cartoon network' button. Muhahaha. The bonus here is that you'd look like you were working :)

  • the palm IR is pretty weak intensity-wise. i looked into doing this myself, but if you go to the URL where they sell the software to do this stuff, they also sell an amplifier that attaches to your palm to extend the range. otherwise the bare range of the pilot can be as short as a couple of feet and strongly contingent on your battery level.

    anyhow, i think what the guy was asking about was being able to hit 'play cd'(or whatever) without having to manually configure the system state, ie, switching to the cd input, turning on the cd player, etc. on my tv, i've got three different video input channels and i've got to switch to a particular channel to watch dvd, or the vcr, etc. this initial setup, prior to the 'play' event is what needs to be automated and this is what the current crop of universal remotes doesn't do. they're just lookup tables for common buttons on remotes.

    in theory, you could take the palm remote prog and program the whole sequence of button-down events that would correspond to a given final state.
    now if someone wants to figure out how to jack up the IR intensity of the palm, that would be supercool. i figure another hack would be to solder together a teeny transponder box that sits near you, within range, and just echoes your palm IR but at higher intensity.

    of course, if you were an uber-geek, you would just program a microcontroller yourself to do all the sequential button events, and swap out the circuitry in a uni-remote with your own.



  • The Philips Pronto, and the site Remote Central [remotecentral.com] have been MORE than perfect for me.


    I control:
    an NAD cd-player, a Barco projector, an SSI Dolby Decoder, all three of which are very high end and very esoteric, as well as my Sony/Matsushita/Etc. equipment, all from a very funky front-end which I've put together with: TV-station logos for the channels (no more typing in 2-1-enter-oops-wrong-channel),screens for things like "Theatre", "Music", "Television",and all in a handy, backlit unit with the most powerful IR LED's I've seen.


    Go buy one. Now.

    =-)

    mindslip

  • Yes, there are devices like this that do work. However, there is a device called the HP48GX that is easily programmed, has a large user base, and supports many devices, and can easily learn new ones. The HP48GX can also run a multitude of games and other programs. It can even do trig and calculus.

    Oh, yea... its a calculator... But it works and is very cheap. Only $129.

    Take a look at HP's site [hp.com]

  • There is a neat Palmpilot program called Omniremote. I tested it and was able to control every equipment I wanted using IR. It does have a limited range, but I am able to control my stereo, TV and CD-Player from the other side of my room (~5 meters).

    It has even be considered a security problem for some cars (I guess some Mercedes model) that use a IR code for unlocking the door. So people who had access to your key could copy it much more easily than a conventional key.

    Well, a Palmpilot IIIe can be found for $179. So paying $300 for an All-in-one remote is WAY TOO MUCH .

    Yes, the palmpilot does have a limited range. But I heard of a device that you can attach to it to amplify the IR Beam, thus greatly extending its range. I have no idea of the price, but I belive it will go for about $50. Anyone ?
  • yes it is expensive. However the real question, would you use the money you saved on puddin?

    matisse:~$ cat .sig
  • Microsoft and Harmon remote [microsoft.com]

    Sony RM-AV2000 [sony.com]

    Philips Pronto [philips.com]
  • the buttons look small.. if you are like me, you don't look at the remote much when flipping through. Some universal remotes have a switch that change the functionality from one to another (JVC has a cool one -- too bad it works with no audio devices). Something to this effect needs to be done on a wider scale.
  • Can I use that to control my TV? :-)
  • A few years ago, I walked into Bay-Bloor Radio in Toronto and asked the first sales man if they had any stereo components that had RS232 ports on them. ( This was before USB ). I got the most blank look I have ever seen. Since then I have discovered that some component systems do have some kind comunications port ( Main amp thingy to cd player/tape deck ) on the back ( I^2C maybe??). I always wanted to hack my computer into one, but I have never owned one, and probably never will. Has anyone here played around with the stuff? The other option is of course to buy/make a IR transmitter to hook up to the serial port on the back of the old computer and cheat.

  • Palm IR Port too weak (Score:4)

    by Fjord ( 99230 ) on Friday November 05, 1999 @06:29PM (#1557582) Homepage Journal

    I used to run the OmniRemote [palmgear.com] software by Pacific NeoTek [pacificneotek.com]. This tool allows you to record a signal from a device (or a set of signals) and replay them back. So you would point your TV remote at the IR port, hit record on OmniRemote, press "channel up", stop recording and label the "button" you recorded into "Ch+".

    The problem was that the built in IR port was too weak. It couldn't control anything more than 2 feet away. So it was just a cute toy that has no practical value.

    There are hardware add ons that give you a longer range (or an IR port if you don't have one), but I haven't tried them. There is the OmniRemote Module [pacificneotek.com] also by NeoTek for $20 (a lot less than the $300 above, even if you have to buy a used Palm), and TaleBeam [aol.com] for $30 (sorry, $29.95). Apparently there is no software for the TaleBeam yet.

  • I can only comment on what I use on a regular basis, the Sony Remote Commander RM-V2000 (even the name is cool). This remote kicks some serious ass. It has 12 different modes (tv,vcr1,vcr2,vcr3,dvd,dbs/cable,amp,cd,md/dat/dec k b/a,tuner,option) and a huge backlit, touch-sensative LCD display. All of the buttons are programmable and the remote can "learn" your existing remotes if they are not pre-programmed. The remote also features 3 macro buttons that let you set a number of commands (like turn the tv on, turn to video 1 mode, turn the amp on and put it in DVD mode, and then turn the dvd player on and press the play button) that can then be accessed at the touch of a button. It can also learn other IR products, like lights and window shades (if you've got IR controlled window shades, you have a bigger problem than finding an all-in-one remote). I believe this is the same remote people posted about earlier. I got it at a sony dealer here in town for $125, definitely worth the money. Sorry, I don't have a URL to sony's page, I'm too lazy. hope that helps. laters.

    geek77

  • Click Here [harmankardon.com]
  • I bought a Philips Pronto, [philips.com] a similar product, just last night. This is one of the coolest products Philips has ever released. I decided to buy the Pronto over the Harmon Kardon for a few reasons. First, the Harmon Kardon was co-developed with Microsoft. I don't trust a software company who can't make software with making consumer electronics. That's just me tho'. Second, the screen is not as big. Third, it has NO WHERE NEAR the expandability that the Pronto has. --!Switching to Plug mode!-- The Pronto has a meg of flash and is completely programmable. You can learn commands sent at frequencies of up to 56KHz, so that will cover most consumer-grade remotes. I have completely programmed my Pronto to control my TV (Picture-in-Picture as well), my DVD player, my Amp, and my 50CD jukebox. The touch screen is more than responsive enough for my needs. You can download pre-programmed configuration files for common components of your home audio/video system on to your PC, and then download those files over a serial port to the Pronto. Firmware upgrades are also available through the PC software. The list price on the Pronto is $399 but I got mine for $275. I can't say where, but you can get them from J&R [jandr.com] for I believe $300. If you want the rechargable pack, you need to pay another $80, so I skipped on that and am using Double A's (4 of them). I've been told one set of batteries will get you about 6 months of normal usage. Phillips has certainly outdone themselves on this one. I'm really happy with mine. Some sites you may want to check out if interested: Remote Central [remotecentral.com] - reviews of both the Harmon Kardon, Pronto, and another similar Sony product, features&specs lists, cool stuff Remote Central Review of the Pronto [remotecentral.com] - nice review, nice pictures Philips Pronto site [philips.com] - nice pictures of the unit Pronto Edit [prontoedit.com] - this is the free software you can use to download to/update the Pronto Pretty sweet unit, I highly reccomend it.
  • Well, I couldn't find the article I was thinking of, but The-Gadgeteer [the-gadgeteer.com] seems to have a whole gamut of links to reviews and useful sites. Hope it helps.

    ~=Keelor

  • http://www.microsoft.com/products/hardware/takecon trol/default.htm

    I hope I'm not the only one who finds that complete pathname kind of humorous and ironic at the same time?

    M$ => "Our mission statements are in our URL's"

  • Specifically here [sony.com]

    --Dan
  • X-10 [x10.com] has a really cool remote that I have found to work quite well. It's called the Learning Super-Remote. There are two versions, make sure you get the learning one. This baby has three communication methods built in, IR send like any remote, IR recieve so you can point the original remote at it and program functions, and a radio transmitter so you can control your X-10 Firecracker modules with it. I have my whole apartment wired, so not only is my whole entertainment system controlled by my remote, my lights and popcorn maker are too. Isn't technology grand?


    Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
  • My parents at home have a home theatre setup that is powered by a Marantz Learning Remote... I believe it runs about 300$US, and it is completely programmable, inculding a 4 screen menu for each different function (TV, CD, LD, DVD, SAT, etc.) and each of these can be programmed, along with the real buttons at the bottom. Eukaryote
  • I have the amplifier for the IR port for OmniRemote... It works well, but it is only as strong as the original Palm Pilot... the Palm III/V series have weaker infrared beams, and therefore need the amplifier... it will work about 10 feet... I got the code for the TV's in high school... that was always fun... Eukaryote
  • The amplifier goes for about 20$US. Eukaryote
  • There's a resistor [google.com] you can replace to increase the receive range. The transmit range is several feet, so it's enough for couch to TV if the TV is sensitive enough. I couldn't find any info on increasing transmit power, although I remember a discussion on /., possibly the one in http://slashdot.org/articles/98 /11/21/0958242.shtml [slashdot.org] but the relavent comments seem to have disappeared (the thread is visible but the comments are empty). One readable post does recommend the HP48G/GX for it's sending range.

    BTW, if you want to open up your HP48, see http://www.contrib.andr ew.cmu.edu/~drury/oldhp/how2open.htm [cmu.edu] first.
    --

  • Re:... (Score:1)

    by MbM ( 7065 )
    omniremote for the palmpilot -
    http://pacificneoteck.com
    - MbM
  • Seriously, is there anything preventing my laptop, which communicates with other computers through an IR port, from comminicating with my TV, stereo, etc? Why hasn't the computer industry made this mainstream already? Don't you think most people would want to be able to control most of their home electronics from their computer? Think about all the possibilities. A simple program could control your TV, CD player/stereo, have timers set up for them ... so many possibilities, and with current voice recognition software, you could do it all without pushing a button, oh and of course ... you would NEVER have to worry about losing your remote again (when was the last time you missplaced your computer???) But the question remains ... can this be done and if so, why has it not been done already??
  • If you own a TI graphing calc, there is a handy add-on called the ir-link [ticalc.org] that makes it relatively easy to record and send IR signals.

    All it would take would be someone to program (in assembly, of course) a nice little app that would record and save the signals for each category of equipment. A simplified version of this already exists, and it would need only a bit of tweaking to make a nice GUI, etc.

    The only downside is that you have to build the link yourself, and own a TI calc...
  • We have JVC CD, JVC Dual Cassette Tape Deck, JVC Stereo Receiver, Two JVC VCRs, Hughts DirecTV DSS, and a Sharp TV.

    Our one remote (www.oneforall.com) is handling just about everything we need. I never need to use anything else, though my wife does a lot of recording with the tape decks, and there are some features we haven't programmed.

    It basically handles AMP, TUN, TV, CBL, CD, VCR, SAL, AUX1, & Home Theater. Those are dedicated buttons, the rest handle the various features.

    I highly recommend it. We use a standard IR version, but there's also a radio version.

    The one we have, model URC-8080B00 is top notch. It cost about $90 USD at Best Buy, about 2 years ago. It's been dropped, slammed, sat on, you name it (we have a 4.5 year old boy ).

    Just about all the buttons are reprogramable, and you can program "macros", though I didn't see the point...I don't mind pressing a few buttons in the right sequence.

    I can't recommend this product enough.
  • My specs for the remote I want include:

    1. Programmability - pre-programming is NEVER enough;
    2. Macros - true convenience is turning everything on/off with one button;
    3. Ergonomic design, with key shapes and arrangements your hand can find its way around without looking. Astonishing how many are just a grid of identical buttons...)
    4. Under $100
    It doesn't exist. The $300 items violate the last spec and also the ergonomics since you can't feel them at all. (At least the one I'm aware of is just a touch display with virtual buttons".)

    The odd thing is that I'm sure it could exist since there are two runners-up that come close, for under $30 US. Both are great ergonomically and for price, and each does ONE of the other two specs.

    One For All 6 Universal Remote
    (Universal Electronics, Inc. $15-$20US) With "Powered by Motorola" logo, incidentally.

    A universal, but a good one as these go - and it has a tedious key-sequence for creating macro keys of codes it already knows. The manual offers the ability to have keys custom-programmed, if you don't mind sending them back to the factory and paying an amount they wouldn't discuss by E-mail. The E-mail exchange left me cold and I dropped the matter. The Macro feature is great, but since it's a Universal, you of course are always missing a feature you use often enough - like making my VCR pop up the screen display so I can see what time-point the tape is at.

    Radio Shack 7 in 1 Universal Remote Control
    (15-1924 in the RS catalog, $40-$50 US)

    This one is programmable, but it doesn't do macros...argh. And the previous remote had spoiled me for them.
    Also, there's a funny limitation to the programming. If you're programming the keys when they're prefixed by, say, VCR being the current device, you often can't put in a TV or Receiver code. Sometimes, but not always. It just gives you the three-flash "error" signal when you send in the signal from the other remote. So you can rarely mix devices. Since my receiver is always the volume control device no matter what I'm getting the signal from (tape, laserdisc, airwaves), it means you're constantly jumping back and forth between devices.

    I judge remotes by whether my wife, who hates them all, can use it..and the device-jumping was a showstopper for her.

    It seems to me that the chip running the thing just needs to be a *little* more featureful - and they've got to include macros. And a few more buttons to program.

    I'm sure they can do that much for under twice the price of the Radio Shack. It dumbfounds me that the hotly competitive consumer electronics industry hasn't already done this. What are they thinking?

  • Oh boy... (Score:4)

    by jfunk ( 33224 ) <jfunk@roadrunner.nf.net> on Friday November 05, 1999 @07:33PM (#1557612) Homepage
    I have the same woes.

    It appears to be impossible to find a good remote.

    Check this site [remotecentral.com] for a ton of info. Beware, big companies give this guy free remotes so don't expect a hell of a lot of journalistic integry anywhere but the user forums.

    For cheap and good, the SL-9000 does look quite nice. I've never tried it though. It has decent punch-through and macro options (most important).

    For high-end, the Philips one looks pretty good but I don't really like those screens because you actually have to look at it to get to a button. I can hit most of the buttons on my five separate remotes (works for now, I'm afraid of the lost functionality of multi-remotes). There is also the fact that you can't fit a hell of a lot of buttons on those screens, you'll probably find yourself scrolling a lot.

    If you like those screens and want something kind of cheap, there is software you can get for a palm but the IR port isn't all that high-powered. I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that there will be a remote control addition to the Visor.

    My advice: a number of high-end home theatre stores will let you bring a remote home to try it out. Do this and don't buy anything fancy unless you need the functionality.

    I have also thought about designing my own remote. Simply use a PIC, a 2-wire EEPROM, a serial port, and a load of buttons and you can program your remote graphically on your PC. A lot of low-level remote info can be found through the LIRC (Linux Infrared Remote Control) project. This way you can get a remote that does pretty much anything you want and you won't have to worry about setting punch-throughs, macros, switching between components, etc. The software would allow you to print a sheet which you can cut up and place under a clear plastic cover on your remote that has the key names on it. Some remotes have little stickers that you can place under the buttons so that would be an option (although not so elegant) as well.

    Yes, I'm very serious about designing my own remote. I have done much thought on it. I want it to be as good or better quality than commercial remotes. If anyone is interested in helping out/discussing it email me and we'll maybe set up a mailing list and web page, etc.
  • A remote control cannot be called "universal" unless it can control every single electronic device in your house. The most popular and easiest way to do this is with X10, the home automation standard. You probably already know what X10 is and what it can do, so I'd just like to point out a remote that can control tv's, vcr's, etc, and it can also send out X10 commands:

    http://www.x10.com/products/x10_ur47a.htm

    I think there are a few similar models on that site. Look around. But remember, it's gotta have X10 or it's not really universal.
  • Doesn't some Palms have programmable infrared thingies. Remember that fuss about copying keyless car entry things a while back. You could probably use that to copy all your current remotes.
  • One thing that you could do that would probably be a pretty bad idea but fun nevertheless would be to take a lot of PC-7 (non-critical 50-50 mixture epoxy), and glue all the remotes that you have to your arm...it would be like a mini home-entertainment center control headquarters.

    .{redmist}.
    -------------------------------------------------
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Unlike many of my fellow highly paid Silicon Valley residents, I don't spend a lot of money on cool gadgets. I still have a TV from 1984, and I play music through a boom box that's hooked up to a pair of speakers I found by the dumpster. I only have one remote, and that came with my cheapo VCR. I usually walk across the room to do stuff. It's not like I couldn't use the exercise.

    That said, a bunch of my friends got some remotes that you program by beaming ordinary remote signals into, and they are hella cool. I think they paid something like $20 for them several years ago, but that was because they got a discount from a friend who worked at a place that sold them. The moral of the story is that you can (or at least could) get truly programmable remotes for a reasonable price.

  • Wow...that brings back memories. In '95, when I was in college, I bought an HP 48GX, in hopes that my boring math classes could get done with more quickly...Needless to say, it didn't work, the 48GX was simply an expensive vehicle to play Tetris on during math class. Anyway, I remember downloading the remote control program. It was neat except they disabled the IR so that you could only transmit a short distance, to curtail cheating.

    Anyway, does anyone remember the "Tricorder" program for the HP? It would beep more quickly based on the proximity of the IR sensor to some mildly reflective surface. That was mildly amusing. A fun processor to hack on too!

    --GnrcMan--
  • My Marantz receiver came with a universal remote that I'm quite impressed with. It comes, of course, with Marantz codes pre-programmed, and since they're owned by Philips all of the PhilipsMagnavox codes are ready to go, too.

    It cannot interface with a PC, but it can clone itself to another RC-18SR or RC-2000. Don't know about the RC-5000.

    They're quite pricy by themselves, $250-300. Worth it? The rest of the family can operate this pretty well, which is actually an improvement over the collection of remotes that preceded it. Nice backlit buttons and LCD display (which isn't touch-sensitive -- it uses all real buttons). I doubt I would have bought one myself, but now that I've used it I would recommend it if you can afford it.
  • dood thats scary! the microsoft remote mentioned elsewhere here has very few buttons, but one of them has a little "house" icon on it!!!

    http://www.microsoft.com/products/hardware/takec ontrol/default.htm
  • Can anybody recommend a cheap device that can send and receive IR signals, that I can hook up to a serial port, and that has linux drivers? With appropriate software, this could turn into a programmable remote with pretty much unlimited capacity.

    I've seen plans on the net for circuits you can build, but I'd rather pay about $10-20 for a prebuilt one.

    JMC

  • Wow, that is quite nice, but isn't $400 a little steep for a programmable remote control? I mean, for that price, couldn't you go out & buy an older Palm? You could use it not only as a programmable universal remote, but for all those other neat things Palms do. You could even put some games on it when there's nothing good on TV (or use it for that 'productivity' crap).

    -mike kania
  • I have a casio replacement remote that I picked up at circuit city (of all places).. the cool thing about this one is that it "learns" ANY button by reading the signal from the existing remote.

    Just put the casio in "read" mode, point the remote at a sensor on the casio, and press the button. boom. no codes, dip switches, etc. blah!

    It also had a selector switch for up to five different devices.. it got a little confusing, because it had a bank of twelve unmarked buttons in a grid. total of 40 buttons x 5 settings = 200 different remote buttons can be programmed.

    I picked this thing up about two years ago but recently packed it away. Wish I had the model number. Hrmm.. I remember seeing a gemini brand remote that did the same thing as mine, but was slimmer looking.

  • Nerd it up (Score:3)

    by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Friday November 05, 1999 @08:15PM (#1557627)
    Practical? Economical? Bah, I scoff at your IR needs.

    What you need is a PalmPilot + the Omniremote software. They even sell a hardware add on if you don't have IR.

    Goto http://www.pacificneotek.com/

    BTW, this is the gear the guys at the HackFurby project use - http://www.homestead.com/hackfurby/

    And when you perfect your IR floodlamp remote please don't distrub my daily viewings of Manimal and Joni Loves Chachi.

  • "but isn't $400 a little steep for a programmable remote control? I mean, for that price, couldn't you go out & buy an older Palm?"

    Uhhh for $400 you could buy the nicest palm out there-- the Vx. Or two visors, providing you could actually get them shipped to you successfully. And had the patience to order and reorder (rinse and repeat) until they arrived...

  • Re:i hate to tell you this but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    >As long as a product works well, does it matter where it comes from?

    To me yes. Here's why:

    Not that Microsoft is 100% in this category, but *I* have never felt good about buying goods Made in China, no matter how good they are. If a company's (or country's) activities (or lack of activities) affect my conscience enough, sometimes I feel I must make a small personal stand.

    There are times people decide to do things that are against logic. I guess wince isn't your "thing". I'm gonna bet there's something you won't buy on principle... fur coats (dead animals)? furby dolls (slave labour)? nike shoes (child labour)? McDonald's burgers (rain-forest deforestation)? Nuclear Power (chernobyl)? a company that once screwed you over in the past?

    If you never, ever, in your life decide to make even a small stand against a product or service even once, then might I suggest you seek professional help... It's only human to make an illogical decision based on feelings sometimes. Suppressing such feelings forever might just turn ya nuts (maybe make you postal?).

    Maybe MS and wince just isn't your thing. Sorry you feel this way ;-)
  • Most IR car openers( read: lazy man's key ) 'jump' codes so once you use that code it's no longer good. You could copy the code and use it once if you're so inclined.

    Leapfrom makes IR to RF attachment that sends the signal to an RF to IR box pointing at your stereo or tv so you can turn down KC and the Sunshine band while in the shitter.

  • the x10 learning remote is awesome! i got mine for free thanks to one of x10.com's promo offers, and it's better than any "universal" remote i've ever used... the glow-in-the dark and light-up features just make it all the cooler :7

    i was thinking of using it to control my laptop via the ir port as well... i don't know much about the port, but i'm sure you could do some really awesome stuff with it. the x10 learning remote is definately the remote for the job.
  • You can get a serial IR emitter/reciever for your PC. Plugs right into the serial port, doesn't need batteries. Then just have your system watch for codes coming down the serial port and act appropriately (So you could instruct the computer to manipulate X10 devices via a remote.)
  • Just to be a snob....
    on my parents' '97 Mercedes C280, the thing only works once. The keychain must have an internal clock in it, so it transmits the timestamp to the car. The car knows that any subsequent signals must be from a later time, so the signal only works once. Of course, you only need to open the doors once, so.....
  • It should just be a matter of figuring out what data is coming in on the IR port and spitting it back out again. You could also do this with a PC and one of those IR emitters you can get down at CompUSA for $30. It would be kind of cool to sit down at the PC and drive your whole audio/video entertainment center.
  • Yes, that's a good solution. The problem is that the normal Palm IR is pretty weak. Read the user testimonials to see the range.

    You either have to get an IR extender (fairly cheap and useful) or instead of buying a Palm, buy a Visor. User reports indicate that they have punch-through-the-walls power IR. I have no idea why they'd do that -- but that's WAY cool. Nobody's yet reported a maximum range for remote control (but there are very few people who have Visors yet); the people who have tried gave up after getting out of sight of their devices.

    I can think of a use, though. Imagine an entire classroom set up as a distributed network -- during a test.

    -Billy
  • I've had one of these. It works EXCELLENT for the devices it's preprogrammed for. But in learning mode it has quite a lot to be desired. It would execute the command correctly once, then wouldn't twice, then again right. It's just not reliable for all those 'strange' keys. -Oh I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK! I sleep all night and I work all day!
    -lj 'Oh I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK!
  • The Woz made the ultimate IR remote a few years back, called the "Cloud 9", it could learn any other remote and was fully programmable. Of course, it was 65C02 based.

    A rare find indeed, the market was not ready for that much remote.
  • They've got the One for All remotes, which (at least in the 7-device kind that I bought) control a very wide range of devices. The kicker is that it has 4 "learn" buttons that, for each device can be set to anything that device's remote can send out. That should cover all the main functions of any specialty remote. Hell - it's even got PIP and VCR controls built in. At $29.95, it beats the PalmPilot and HP-48 options in price.
  • Panja [panja.com] (formerly AMX) or Crestron [crestron.com] is the way to go. Both offer a wide variety of wired and wireless remotes (both IR and RF flavors) that communicate to a proprietary CPU that sends outs commands via IR or rs232/422. They're really cool, and work well, but the cost is a little prohibitive to most of us who live off of an IT staffmembers salary. Both units are completly programmable using (again) a proprietary language that is unique to the system (AMX looks a lot like C, I belive Crestron is more working with modules than code) but allows very robust control of whatever you are using.
  • Funny someone should bring up IR remotes and controlling your Linux box with an X10 system. Just last week I built an IR reciever with 5 dollars worth of Rat Shack components and use it with the lircd daemon. It runs great. I can control my mp3s from my remote, use it as an IR mouse, I have a button that speaks the time, I wrote some alarm clock software, and the remote has my sleep button (and configurable delay.) The most ironic part of it, of course, is that I'm using an X10 8in1 remote. One of the buttons on this remote tells my Firecracker to turn on and off my lights. Its a trippy circle.
  • Take a look at the Linux Infrared Remote Control project:

    [uni-sb.de]
    http://fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de/~columbus/lirc/index. html
  • [uni-sb.de]
    http://fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de/~columbus/lirc/index. html

    Since some people are asking about using their laptop's IrDA port to control consumer electronic devices, I'll point them to LIRC, the Linux Infrared Remote Control project. More information can be found at the above site.

    Things I'd be concerned about, though:

    - What exactly is the range of the IrDA port?

    - Where is the IrDA port physically located?

    Another possibility is the serial port gizmo that the site describes. I can see definite advantages with it:

    - It's currently supported.

    - It would likely be mounted on the back of the computer. This way, if you're sitting watching TV with your laptop in your lap, the IR LED will be pointed at the TV, instead of off to the side or at your stomach. Even if your laptop's serial port is in some wierd location, you can modify the device's design to make the LED point in the right direction.

    - It can be used with laptops with no IrDA ports, or even desktops.
  • You could absolutely use an HP48G/GX (or even an S/SX...though I haven't tried). I've used my G to control my TV, my stereo, other people's TV's, etc. There is a remote control program available (try hpcalc.org [hpcalc.org]) that has pre-programmed files for hundreds of different devices from different manufacturers, and it even includes a utility to learn codes from the original remote in case your device isn't supported.

    btw, you can NOT use the HP49, as it has no IR port. :(
  • I got prety decent range with my PalmIII at least 10ft. (Didn't try any longer.(And this was with nearly full bateries.) But my main problem was that I had to use the stylus to tap at my new remote. Sure you can use your fingers but who wants finger-prints all over the screen?
  • IR is just outside of visible freqs, so it shouldn't be able to go through much that light can't go through.

    Unless it's powerful enough to bounce around the wall. I know that a normal IR remote will bounce off of two walls before dying....

  • I have a PalmPilot Professional, with the Palm III upgrade, and it has at least 10 feet transmission length. I have the upgrade card gives much better transmission of IR. So if you can get a old palm (pre III), and an upgrade card, you should get good enough IR for a remote.

    Works for me.
  • I got this beastie... the SL-9000 Home Theater Master. Runs about $100. Also comes with the recent B&K receivers / pre-amps. It's fully programmable, and has a TON of presets for various components (have that weird-ass Nakamichi tape drive? It's there). It's also button-oriented, vs touch-pad, which I prefer. Only drawback is that it shared the arrow functions with the play / ff / rv / stop, which is annoying for the DVD as you then program some of the other keys for that.

    I forget the URL, but it's pretty easy to find with reasonable search engines like MetaCrawler (www.metacrawler.com).

    -e

  • I bought a really nice remote for about $130 US. The Home Theater Master SL-9000. It has an LCD display, and will control anything on IR. It has codes for just about every stereo console unit, and if it doesn't you can program it in. It actually provided more functionality for some devices than the remote they came with! It has illumination for all the buttons and LCD too. 4 AAA batteries incl. If you get/build a universal reciever then you're all set for your computer too. Same company also has a touch screen remote coming out soon.

    Check it out at www.hometheatermaster.com [hometheatermaster.com]

  • Well I dont know about you but i have been using an interesting device fora couple of years now. Your local AV store should have one:

    It has a fairly standard set of buttons (on/off/play/no. pad/ff/rw etc) but you have to programme each button. This is done by hitting a learn buttin holding down the button you wish to programme and pressing the button on the original remote, with the two remotes touching.

    It has a selector switch, and in each position of the said selector switch the buttons do whatever they are programmed to do in that mode.

    Mine Cost me $US 30 ($AU 55).....
  • There's quite a few "serious" programmable hand-held remotes out there -- seems every audio company that's putting their fingers into the home theater market has one (Sony, H-K, Rotel, Onkyo, Marantz, B&K, Carver, and so forth). Some of these are all but incapable of reliably learning codes; others get them right most of the time; none of them get it right all of the time. That said, once the codes are learned, they'll always work. Rather, they'll always work, *if* they've got enough memory to store all of the codes for all of your gear (no good way of determining that without actually trying it).

    Many of the more expensive ones use an LCD touch panel. Some of these emulate a hands-on remote (which is silly), while others allow placement and shapes of buttons to be minutely tuned. Still others only have an LCD for clock display, and others still have no LCD at all.

    What to do? Depends on how much you like the the toys your equipment has. At the low end, Radio Shack has a learning remote that also has preprogrammed codes (which is a good thing, as it's only got enough memory for about one full keypad of codes - you'd be lucky to get two devices into it if neither worked out-of-the-box). It's around $20, and also works with X10 stuff such as the Firecracker kit that Slashdot is still in bed with.

    On the other end of the price spectrum exists Crestron [crestron.com], who makes incredibly serious gear. You get to create your own interface (sadly, using Windows software) and write some code to run it that runs on a large, black, rack-mount box. Plugged into this box can be almost anything - a Matrix Orbital RS-232 keypad would not be out of the question. Or an RF reciever, snagging control codes out of the air from a wireless backlit 256 color LCD panel. And light control? It wouldn't take much doing in order to get it to talk DMX-512 over RS-485, such that you can plug in your choice of professional halogen light dimmers or pretty effects lighting for your next party or stadium gig. One word of caution, though - Crestron does not list prices on their site for a reason.

    Xantech [xantech.com] has a few serious remote control systems (mostly geared toward permanent installation), and is the behind-the-scenes manufacturer for a large percentage of IR equipment.

    Me, I can't afford a Crestron system, Xantech is too inconveniently yuppie for my taste (though I do use a remote repeater system of theirs, and our host Rob has one of their ground loop eliminators hung off of his VCR), and the cheaper LCD panel remotes seem flaky and cheap. So, I use a couple of things (depending on my mood and/or how involved I want to be with button-pushing).

    Firstly is a Rotel RR920 learning remote. They don't make it anymore :^), but it works wonders. A large, geekish array of buttons with equally geekish labels (what did they intend the BEQ button to do, anyway? I've got it running the TV's sleep timer), and I've never come close to running out of memory with it. It supports lengthy macros, and has an LCD clock (which can also trigger said macros). List price was $150, iirc.
    No pre-programmed codes, so you're on your own if you've lost the original remote.

    I've also got the aforementioned Radio Shack remote. It doesn't do as much, but does have a glow in the dark button you can push to light up the keypad. I keep it by the bed to turn the lights on and off with X10. For each bank of buttons, there's a few (usually) unassigned keys that you can learn arbitrary commands into. And, the pre-programmed codes aren't complete shit - it does every feature of my DSS equipment, and formerly did the Primestar boxen without complaint. But, it has no codes for my Carver CD player or Rotel preamp, and its poor little memory got filled up rather quickly because of that.

    Whatever you get, it'd serve you well to buy from a place with a liberal return policy. Some of these things will not do what you expect (never trust the packaging), and there's some devices (such as a Samsung TV that I have) which no third-party remote can control (except a Crestron system, which just doesn't care how funky the remote's signal is; it will duplicate it).
  • the Apple MessagePad? I recall seeing a nice little app for it called Showmate that would let you control all of your favourite entertainment appliances. The drawback is the Newton's IR signal was weak so you needed to be within ten feet of the device and it only worked with five brands of electronics.
  • That's a neat trick, having an IR beam as strong as the original Pilot, considering the Pilot had no IR port... :) My experience with OmniRemote on my PalmIII's built-in port is that I can control some of my devices from a good 12 feet away, depending on how sensitive the particular device is.
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
  • ...and get the Sony [remotecentral.com]. As the guy says, it can be found cheap (I got it for $125), and if you get over the spelling error on the LCD (mine says "Sound Feild" instead of "Sound Field"), it's a great remote.

    I especially like the fact that the batteries for the backlight are separate from the batteries for the remote memory...that's just intelligent design.

  • I suppose, but:
    • Pronto's screen is larger and it has additional buttons for controls (vol+/-, chan+/-, left and right)
    • It has a super-powerful IR element with like a 30'+ range or something. I doubt the Pilot's more than 10' (the Newton IR never guaranteed AV control over 6'!)
    • 4AA batteries (or desktop charger) mean that it has power for months. See how long those AAAs run your IR emitter constantly.
    • The ProntoEdit [prontoedit.com] IDE is powerful and simple IMO, and though I haven't seen the palm-based stuff I can't imagine it getting any easier or more powerful than PE.
    • the Pronto has a game Easter Egg in it, so if there's nothing good on TV you can play Tetris.. With the larger screen ;)


    Yeah, when it came out, it was $400, but nowadays it'll cost less and come with a recharger.. Personally, I think mine was worth it, and you can have it when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.. ;)
    Your Working Boy,
  • I can't seem to find the specific entry for this model on Sony's website, but they apparently offer it as the standard remote for their big screen TVs now. I picked one up at a local Sony store. For about $90, it replaced my VCR, TV, DVD, amp, etc. remotes. It's a little big, but it's got a nice backlit blue LCD screen, is completely programmable, etc. You have to pick from preselected labels for the buttons on the screen, but I found everything I wanted there. Several nice features, including an easy way to link the volume in all states to the volume of your amp. Also three "system state" buttons... I programmed one each for watching TV, video tapes, and DVDs. Each turns on the appropriate items, sets the amp to the correct source, puts the tv on the appropriate input, etc. Very nice remote, and reduced clutter in my living room to nothing. Very easy to find due to size. =)

    Incidentally, I learned a little known fact about most TVs in doing the programming of this remote... If you want to have a button that lands you on Video 2, for example, in the course of doing other things, you may think you're screwed because you don't know what video source you were on before that. With only one button that says "TV/Video", how do you properly switch among N sources? It turns out that (with Sonys, and I'm sure many others) you can hold down the TV/Video button while you press the number corresponding to the source you want to watch. Very handy!! Spread the word!
  • I also have a Pronto [philips.com], and it is without a doubt the best remote control I have ever seen in my life. I've had it for about six months (and it's still on the first set of batteries!)

    The Pronto Edit [prontoedit.com] software is very easy to use; I generally do all my programming of it with the computer instead of by hand on the remote.

    I only wish I could figure out how to make VMware talk to my serial port, so that I wouldn't have to boot Windows to do this, sigh...

    One of the interesting things you will discover the first time you try to use a touchscreen as a remote control is that it's slightly harder to operate in the dark: because you have to actually turn your head and look at the (backlit) screen to find the buttons, you can't just feel around for them. But that's another of the benefits of the Pronto over something more Pilot-like: it has seven physical buttons that are also per-page programmable (laid out for Mute, Ch +/-, Vol +/-, Left and Right) so I tend to use those for the most frequent actions, and don't actually have to look at it much except when changing pages.

  • Uhhh for $400 you could buy the nicest palm out there-- the Vx. Or two visors, providing you could actually get them shipped to you successfully. And had the patience to order and reorder (rinse and repeat) until they arrived...

    First of all, it's not really $400, that's the list price; you can get them for half that.

    Second, yes, you could get a nice Palm for that price. And I'd consider doing that, just as soon as someone demonstrates to me that a Palm will work as well as this remote does, in terms of ease-of-programmability, ability to memorize codes of other remote controls, and broadcast range.

    (And don't tell me "just solder in a new resistor." Please.)

    You're not paying for a Palm clone here, folks. You're paying for both hardware and software. You're paying for a solution to a particular problem in a particular niche. If someone has a software-only solution, I'd like to see it. But to my knowlege it doesn't exist.

    I can't emphasize enough how well the Pronto actually works .

    I've used many programmable remotes over the last decade, and they all suck! The Pronto is the first I've used that actually does what I want it to do, and so I consider it a bargain at just about any price...

  • The Woz made the ultimate IR remote a few years back, called the "Cloud 9", it could learn any other remote and was fully programmable. Of course, it was 65C02 based.

    A rare find indeed, the market was not ready for that much remote.

    Woz's remote was called the CORE (Cloud 9 was the company name.) I believe it was the first memorizing programmable remote control on the market.

    I owned one (still do, it's around here somewhere...) The thing was a complete piece of junk. Programming it was like using a combination of assembler and APL, it had lousy range, and it burned through its batteries in about two weeks (forgetting all its programming, of course.)

    It did have buttons labelled 0 through F, though, which I thought was cute...

    It was a very neat device for the time, and definitely groundbreaking. But as far as being a usable remote control -- well, sadly, no. It wasn't that the market wasn't ready for it, it was that the thing just wasn't any good.

  • If you're like me, you have a DVD and VCR. I happen to have a decent VCR, meaning there is a jog shuttle. I use this to edit, and cannot do without it. There is no universal remote that has a jog shuttle of any kind, making the whole concept of universal remote moot if you have decent video gear, let alone professional.

    It's true, it would be nice if the Pronto [philips.com] was an inch and a half taller and had a programmable jog-shuttle wheel on it. What I did when I laid out the pages for my devices with J/S wheels was add buttons for several speeds:

      • [] [>>] [>>>]

    Then I had it memorize 3 positions in either direction on the wheel (well, 5 positions plus "play".) This works fairly well for normal viewing usage. (Though technically I guess I've only programmed "shuttle", not "jog".)

    However, I can't imagine trying to do video editing with an IR remote at all! Do you actually do that? My VCRs (Panasonic AG-1950s, thirteen years old and still going strong!) have a hardwired edit controller that can control both decks in sync or independently, that has its own J/S wheel, as well as controls for edit-lists.

    IR is nice, but never underestimate the power and flexibility of a 20' cable. I can reach the whole room with it, and I don't have to point it in any particular direction.

  • Ah, I know about that, but the poster didn't say "Palm upgraded with the PalmIII upgrade card." :) I wasn't aware that the upgrade card's range was better than the real deal's though. Interesting. Regardless, my PalmIII has 10-12 feet of range even when the batteries are as low as 30% (I've never tested it any lower though).
    ---
    "'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
  • If you've got B&O gear in the first place it's hard to feel sorry for you...

    Still, this is why I didn't buy a B&O rig several years ago. Although they used to have the best remotes on the planet, they are decidedly behind the times now, and have been for several years.

    B&O's IR remotes work quite differently from the garden variety, but they definitely have a superior architecture (as usual for them...)

    There are two things that make B&O remotes fundamentally different: First, the carrier frequency is *much* higher (400 KHz vs. 40 KHz, IIRC), giving the opportunity for far higher data rates. Second, the protocol allows for 2-way communication, so the CD player, for instance, can display the title of the track playing on the remote itself.

    So far as I know, there's no learning remote out there that's capable of sampling quickly enough to snarf B&O remote codes.

    And of course, B&O asumes if you can afford any of their gear, then everything in your house will be theirs, so their remotes (at least last time I checked) don't have the ability to control non-B&O gear, either. Bummer.
  • The Marantz one IS the Pronto. Same company, same body, largely the same software.

    I had heard, though, that they do run WinCE. I don't know how to verify this.

    I would assume that if the Pronto was running Wince, there would be a Microsoft logo in the manual somewhere. There's not.

    It doesn't feel Wincey. E.g., there's no Start button...

    But then, I've seen a lot of ATMs and other kiosks crashed to NT lately. Oh for the good old days when one only saw them crashed to DOS!

  • This crossed my path recently:
    From: cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell)
    Newsgroups: alt.fan.cecil-adams
    Subject: Re: Consumer electronics (was: A few random questions)
    Date: 22 Jul 1999 22:52:23 GMT

    In article pg@sff.net writes:

    After quitting from Apple Computer, Steve Wozniak designed a universal remote that apparently was VERY programmable. I would love to get one, but unfortunately they were sold for a very short time (too powerful for the FCC, or something like that).

    Ohmigod. Oh my god! That was the CORE, and I have two or three of them sitting in my drawer right now. Want one? They broke easily, and didn't repair too solidly.

    I have long lost count of how many languages I've programmed, but this was easily the hardest -- and I'm including languages like Ladder Diagram Notation here. You could do anything, but damn! did you have to be tenacious far beyond the call of geekery. As I recall, basically you could set a timer to act as if you had pushed a buton at a certain time, and you programmed by putting instructions under that button -- mostly pushes of other buttons, under which you had put pushes of other buttons -- and the only way you really got anything useful done was to include under a given button instructions which said "next time you're pushed, edit your own current instructions, changing them to the following set:...". In other words, this was not an environment in which you employed self-modifying code as a space-saver or a geeky tour-de-force -- self-modifying code was the _only_ way to implement things like counters and possibly (if I recall correctly) even IF/ELSE.

    I now write programs which generate and polish really really big telescope mirrors. I was much prouder of being able to write programs which would tell the CORE "turn on both VCRs, then after 5:30 change the channel to..."

    I think I still have the manual, if you'd like me to copy it.

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