Making the Jump From Sysadmin to Network Administrator? 43
termdex asks: "I've been looking to move from systems administration to network administration for the last couple years but for some set of reasons networking seems to be an impregnable area of work.
My experience has been like the often clichèd 'chicken and egg' scenario. Most employers aren't interested in candiates that lack serious network admin experience (ie: 80/20 network/other), but it would seem difficult to get that level of experience if you're currently a sysadmin. What advice can Slashdot readers offer as what works best in making lateral career moves? What experiences can you relate that shows difficulty or success?"
But.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I do both then. Do I get paid double now?
Re:But.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I created our CRM, admin the offsite Linux servers, sysadmin the macs and pcs. Handle the network. troubleshoot anything that gets plugged in to the wall. I make all the clients web sites, admin the databases, and write then CRM's.
I go offsite and set up LANs, do customer support for network and operations. I handle buying and purchasing bids for multiple companies, and do sales when I am needed for consultation at the conference table.
my title is 'tech guy' I have no degree and no certs. only skills and proof of skills. I am over qualified to work for large companies but under qualified at the same time. Its just one of those things, my advice is this:
do what makes you happy and follow your dreams.
dont lie on a resume. it will only backfire. dont list buzz words. instead make a list of things you have done.
Re:But.. (Score:1)
And you like Steely Dan. Are you sure you aren't me?
Will you marry me?
Re:But.. (Score:1)
Or me.
He pretty much described me to a 'T'.
I wonder how many people here fit that bill..
Me Too (Score:2)
Last year of school I passed was Year 8.
My previous job was IT R&D Project Manager for one of the largest universities on the globe.
I wonder how many of us are there out there
Jack is uberskilled, under certified (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like you deserve a couple of things to happen:
Back on topic, though, I think that setting up LANs for schools or non-profit organizations as a volunteer would get you some experience that could come in handy in any bid for a network admin position. Getting familiar with all the fundamentals of home-made low-cost routers (*NIX box with multiple network cards), firewalls, and proxies is important, even if the elementary school doesn't have nice expensive Cisco routers running the latest version of IOS.
Re:But.. (Score:3, Informative)
My title is "sysadmin" but I'm one of the new network admins around here. I was hired to build up and maintain my empolyer's servers but, since they are the main network servers I have to administer the network.
The two jobs are almost the same, besides - you only need a full time system administrator if you run a server farm full of Win2k (or other MS-Win??) - a good Linux admin (or other *nx) needs only a shell script to download updates for their favorite distribution and deploy them after testing them out on a 'guinea pig'-server.
I spend about 20% of the day updating and revising scripts, 30% taking helpdesk calls, 20% reading Slashdot, Fark and The Register and the final 30% learning new stuff like program in Java, create better firewall rules, learn how to make Mozilla apps (not-so-useful-but-very-neato-stuff).
*nx doesn't need administration? (Score:1)
Re:But.. (Score:1)
Simple. Can you do the work? (Score:1)
Find a place to intern (Score:1)
Certification can help (Score:4, Interesting)
Net+ is a lightweight course of study, and is reasonable to get quickly.
I would aim for Cisco CCNA. If you understand OSI and TCP/IP well enough to mentally calculate subnets, be able to describe how sequence numbers are synched, and know the mechanics of ARP and RIP... You are half-way to certification already. Now add Cisco-specific stuff. I would recommend the Sybex CCNA study guide. Simple, and complete. This will lend additional credibility to a resume re-write, where you put a network "spin" on all of your existing experience.
Next, you might look at Cisco's CCNP - the network planner cert. Depends on how much you get out of certification, and how it's valued by your employers.
Your management at work, if your company is not really dysfunctional, should be able to help. With a good manager at work, you should be able to outline your longterm career interests, and get some support and direction to make this kind of move. This is what weekly one-on-ones are for - supposing a good manager!
Curious Question (Score:4, Interesting)
So, if you want my advice I would say to get a job at a smaller company where you can easily wear multiple hats, grow your experience, experiment with technologies that *you* think can help your company instead of being stuck with dead-end technologies that some PHB mandated from on high. After designing and implementing a few successful projects you should be able to get a job anywhere.
If you're stuck in a larger-sized business, a good company will support your efforts in migrating to a different department. It's usually a win-win situation. You get to do what you want, the company gets to keep someone that they already trust and who knows much more about the company's specific operations than a new hire. If your boss won't help you switch departments, then a good HR person usually will.
Re:Curious Question (Score:1)
Go work for a small company (Score:5, Insightful)
HOWTO (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:HOWTO (Score:1)
INstall Linux. Set it up as a local router and firewall using IPChain/IPTable. Config QMail, OpenLDAP etc.
Use two small machines as subnets, route traffic between them. Suggest 10.10.1.255 for one and 10.10.2.255 as the other subnet. Your router will need multiple NICs to do it right.
Re:HOWTO (Score:1)
This guys right.
But I havent landed anywhere. I have a tokenring + ethernet + wireless setup at home with 8 machines. DNS server, virtualhost apache, virtualhost email, with a custom-made webmail made in php, guestbooks custommade in perl, chilisoft ASP, SAMBA, mysql has guestbook entries, etc etc. One server is FreeBSD another is Debian. Two others not 24/7 are Solaris and RedHat. I have the Linux Certified Admin and LPI level 2, but 4 months constant searching online/newspapers/agencies and not a single phone call.
Re:HOWTO (Score:1)
Re:HOWTO (Score:2)
1. Why would you want to "steal" W2kAS/exchange when you can get linux/sendmail/qmail for free(legally), and Unix/Linux admins get paid more?
2. Don't ever lie on your resume -- it will come back to haunt you.
Re:HOWTO (Score:2)
Re:HOWTO (Score:2)
My point wasn't that you shouldn't learn windows if you're in a windows shop -- my point was that Linux/Unix administrators get paid better, and that Linux/Unix have a much greater market share than you obviously think -- even in corporate environments. If you're looking for a job, that's a better place to look. Plus, you don't have to steal win2k, or lie on your resume...
Re:HOWTO (Score:1)
Speakeasy [speakeasy.net] does all that.
Find a "bridge" position in a Corporate IT shop (Score:5, Interesting)
I run a corporate Network support group that handles LAN/WAN technology, and my staff of 8 is mostly people who have started out as sysadmins and developed their networking skills along the way. The value this background brings is that their general OS and application knowlege allows them to troubleshoot beyond typical "Layer 2/3" problems. It also provides a more open interaction with our sys admins, who do not have routing and switching expertise. We do have several router geeks who focus on our IP routing and LAN/WAN switching infrastructure, but it's the folks with the mix of general OS and specific networking skills that keeps our DBA, progammer, and system administration customers happy.
If you're trying to get into a ISP or Telco NOC, you'll probably have a tough time, without demonstrable routing and telecom experience. OTOH, if you can find a corporate IT shop that supports a variety of technologies (WAN/LAN, Security/Firewalls, Internet, Data Center, etc), you can exploit you sysadmin knowlege in a networking environment. Make sure your resume highlights your relevant networking experience.
Some of my best overall Network Engineers came to me as Unix or Windows admins with a general understanding of networking, and a strong desire to learn more. We're not shy about providing training, and after 6-12 months we end up with very effective engineers who play nice with others.
Good Luck!
The reason they won't hire you... (Score:3, Funny)
You're probably sitting at your desk doing that right now instead of, oh, I don't know, working!
Oops, I gotta go... the boss is coming.
Two different jobs. (Score:3, Interesting)
Get a part-time job as network admin for your local non-profit group. They might be able to advise you on how to get a tax break for your labors, if they can't outright pay you.
Battered spouse shelters, HfH locals, unaffiliated museums, etc. can always use help with technical matters. Find one that is looking to create a network presence.
Re:Two different jobs. (Score:2)
IANAGM (I am not a garbage man), but I'm pretty sure you need a higher class license to drive a garbage truck. You'd probably need your air break cert as well.
A garbage man could call himself a truck driver then.
In reality, most people who are sysadmins could do netadmin work and vice versa.
Re:Two different jobs. (Score:2)
They might be able to advise you on how to get a tax break for your labors, if they can't outright pay you.
Nope, you can't deduct labor, only actual expenses (like mileage driving to the site).
Tricks (Score:2)
AND ask for a low end cisco box (2611 and a 2924 or so) to make sure your company's filtering/ACLs won't effect the software. Then toy around with the switch & router a little bit. Nice practical know how for something you should probably have anyways.
Go work for a small ISP (Score:2)
Note that this is for wireless installs and support (of which I have zero experience), since I already have a little experience with leased lines and routers. But the same thing could apply to anyone for any skill. Seek out smaller shops that may not be able to afford a full-time senior-level admin, and see if you can barter your experience.
All sysadmins have network experience (Score:2)
If they don't they are not sysadmins. What they may lack is experience with particular vendors' equipment, however that is usually nonessential, and is remedied by reading a book. If a company does not understand this, a decent sysadmin wouldn't want to work for it. Where would shitty one-trick-pony sysadmins should work, I have no idea, my advice to them is to kill themselves so others won't suffer from their stupidity and incompetence.
I understand that US is in recession, and people are desperate, but this just isn't worth it -- when quality is lost, it's extremely difficult to get it back, so unless someone is comfortable with encouraging the start of another Dark Ages at no benefit for himself whatsoever, he should not try to chase narrowminded job definitions written by HR drones and PHBs but look for a job where no one will doubt his qualification.
I did the reverse (Score:2)
Having certs in your current field is always a good thing. It shows that you want to improve yourself and your willingness to learn. You might also want to look into getting a cert like Cisco's CCNA (which is a joke to get nowadays). It will show that you have basic knowledge of networking (CCNA covers stuff like subnetting and different network topologies and cabling and protocols, and of course, routers and switches).
If you have the extra cash, buy yourself some routers (ebay) and set up a home network (using something like OSPF or BGP; not just static routing).
Before jumping ship to my Sysadmin job, I had no real practical work experience in the *nix world. But I have alot of personal experience; running a home network, with mail server, DNS server, web server, etc... on multiple linux servers. This definately worked in my favour.
And as with any type of interview, there's more than just your knowledge; there's work ethics, willingess to learn, wanting to grow, etc... All these play into account, especially if applying for a job within the same company.
This whole method of jobsearching sucks royally (Score:1)
For years since grade 6 or so, Ive tried to program Commodore 64, learn C and cluster Linux. I even made sure I know the nearby areas like I got my MCSE and CCNA and learned basic XSLT, while building a simple Opengl 1.4 game.
But I just cant seem to land work. I came to Canada recently and its been maybe 4 months I've been granted work papers. But neither IT job agencies work, nor newspapers/workopolis. They all say I have to 'bug' them. How? How can I just call someone at work and say hi I'm bugging you so I can make inroads into your company possibly replacing you. Damn straight I have bad social skills but arent geeks supposed to? Are HR managers that ill trained in that work whereby they hire a sucky technician one he knows or has been bothered on the phone by alot, but not make a quick check in the real market to get a better bang for his buck??
This I dont understand. "Lifes like that". Shouldnt be. What if I were the CEO of a small firm needing maybe 2 sysadmins? I'd definitely aim for the wider market and filter out the 'good' ones. After all I'd be working so hard to make the company succeed right? Why doesnt it work that way?
You might think I just dont have the needed skills. Heres a hint: I only have 2 years of a 4-year college. But my OS experience includes QNX and Plan9. I can do fancy stuff with vbscript + ADSI and have benchmarked 8 different relational databases. I can program in QT3.0, Perl, ANSI C Visual Basic, Assembly. Do I have to produce massive breakthrough OpenSource apps to enter the market? I really dont know people in this new country and the last one was a third-world country not worth going back to.
Does anyone have a simple answer to this beside "hey live with it"??? I dont think people in other fields of work go through this much jobsearch wrangling. I understand the market is crapshoot now, but what about the very lousy Sysadmins Ive met who managed pServers and didnt know what a WINS server is? People who land J2EE contracts.. and THEN start learning the damn thing. People who setup a website in IIS + Windows because "Microsoft is the biggest company" and say "Linux is just like DOS".
Go somewhere smaller (Score:3, Informative)
It's sort of like the navy -- to go up in the ranks, you sometimes have to move to a smaller ship!