Inexpensive Alternatives for ICANN Disputes? 35
SerialHistorian asks: "The commmunity college newspaper that I was once a staff member and webmaster of had its domain name expire recently without realizing it, and it was snatched up by a porn merchant from the Dominican Republic. Unfortunately, we found that the ICANN dispute fees -start- at $1500. For a college paper whose full annual budget is $10,000, that's not a realistic price... so is there any alternative to the ICANN dispute method so that they can get their domain name back?" According to ICANN's website, there are a limited number of approved UDRP providers, none of which will arbitrate for anything less than US$1100. Are there cheaper methods that one can use to challenge a domain name reassignment? Is it possible to challenge domain name transfers without invoking the UDRP? Why does the handling of such disputes cost so much?
why should you get it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should you get your name back? You didn't reregister it when it expired. Someone else did. Isn't domain name allocation supposed to be first come first serve?
Re:why should you get it? (Score:3, Interesting)
There should be some sort of regulation that puts these bulk-registering or domain name extortion rackets out of business. There is no legitimate need for any organization to register thousands of domain names.
Plain and simple... (Score:2, Insightful)
In essence, it keeps the channels clear for serious challenges.
If you feel you have a case, challenge, then sue the party when you win to recover court costs.
Oh, and IANAL.
Scott
not court costs... (Score:1)
God, I KNOW better than to stay up til 3am playing DAOC on a work night!
Scott
Aye? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Aye? (Score:1)
Re:Aye? (Score:2)
Re:Aye? (Score:1)
Not realise? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please give me your secret! Seriously though, given the hawk like gaze that most registrars have on expiry dates, I can't believe you didn't get hounded with renewal notices. Heck - one of my domains is up for renewal in febuary and I've been getting at least one mail a week asking me to renew it. Sounds simply like the person who was the contact wasn't doing their job, so as everyone else on Slashdot will point out eagerly, I think you're just gonna have to deal with it, and that's the best and fairest way there is - I for one sure would be pissed if I registered a domain only to get it taken off me because the former owner suddenly decided he still wanted it after all.
Re:Not realise? (Score:2)
Re:Not realise? (Score:2)
I just got a renewal notice for a domain I have prepaid 5 years into the future
Re:Not realise? (Score:1)
I lost "potts.com" (my personal domain) about 1997 when I failed to receive a renewal notice, for whatever reason.
In previous years, I had gotten notices both by paper mail and e-mail; this year, nothing came. To the best of my knowledge, InterNIC(?) still had my valid home address and e-mail address. However, the designated domain server was at a previous employer's site, and it is possible the notice went to them, and my former co-workers didn't forward it, or whatever.
Yes, I should have been personally "watching it like a hawk" and realizing that it was going to be up for renewal, but I failed to. But, please realize that registrars have not always been known for applying scrupulous care in maintaining customer domain registrations.
In any case, the next time I checked the domain it was gone. (Try it: http://www.potts.com)
Also, the new owner is not "using" it in the usual sense; there is no individual, company, or whatever by the name of Potts with a web site or service available there. DotcomEmail.com are squatters. They buy up domains and then try to sell people e-mail or web service using that domain. Their web site claims "over 1500 domains available." But they don't want to sell you the domain, they want to rent their services at that domain.
And, yes, I've contacted them to request the name back. I can't pay them for my name back, so all I can do is ask. I can't say I think much of their business model.
Incidentally, I've submitted postings asking for ideas and advice on how to recover this domain to "Ask Slashdot" twice. The posting has never been accepted. So, it is interesting to see someone else get an "Ask Slashdot" posting accepted with, essentially, the same question.
It looks like the only hope I have is that DotComEmail.com (which used to bill itself as a "pre-IPO Internet Startup") will one day go out of business and I can put potts.com to some legitimate use (perhaps advertising my consulting services).
Would they be pissed if I won it back? Does it matter? Should I care, given their business model?
Well, if I had the resources to dispute it, I would do so, but that probably won't be possible. Now whether they have a legitimate right to potts.com by the rules of the registration system: well, of course they do.
But by any other world view? I don't think so. In the dot-com domain, someone who holds a company name or trademark or service mark, or even a family name, would be a better candidate.
But, note that potts.net and potts.org are also owned by another similar service (NetIdentity). Which is why my family has had to resort to "thepottshouse.org" for our personal site.
Do you really want it back now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Three options... (Score:1)
2) Use a different suffix?
3) Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
Backing down is not a bad thing, espicially when backed into a corner like so. Chances are that you're not getting your old domain back. Tough nuggets. Just get another one, and spend a day changing the urls on your paper's page (if necessary...).
What do you expect... (Score:1, Flamebait)
hotxxxlickdrip.com[hotxxxlickdrip.com] ?
.
+1 Funny on the MQR standard (Score:2)
Who in the heck moderated this guy as "flamebait"? What were you thinking, that he was trying to goad the rabid fans of hotxxxlickdrip.com into starting a flame war? Did you even follow/look at the link?
He was jokeing!
-- MarkusQ
Simple (Score:3, Insightful)
Why does the handling of such disputes cost so much?
Obviously because it was designed to let corporations take domains away from the little guy and not the other way around. Yet another case of the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
Re:Simple (Score:2)
Yet another case of the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
Well, in this case it would be the rich get domain names, the poor lose domain names.
Cant believe nobody suggested this yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do people so often look to involve the authorities when they havent yet tried a neighborly approach that is so often more effective and far less expensive?
Re:Cant believe nobody suggested this yet... (Score:1)
Re:Cant believe nobody suggested this yet... (Score:2)
Bullshit. It's not stolen property. They didn't pay the registration fee, they let the registration lapse, and someone else paid for the domain in the meanwhile. It's their own damn fault, and they will be lucky if the pr0n merchant is willing to sell it back to them at all. Given that the domain legitimately belongs to the pr0n merchant now, the least they can do is make an offer to buy it from them before whining to the authorities.
Re:Cant believe nobody suggested this yet... (Score:2)
I think we agree that what the pornsite is doing isn't morally ok
I disagree with that.
Re:Cant believe nobody suggested this yet... (Score:2)
It may be the cheapest short term solution, but it's going to cost more than money (and that too) in the long run.
How is it going to cost more than money (and that too) in the long run?
Buying back stolen property or paying "protection" money is only a bad idea because there's no guarantee you'll get your property back or your "protection". In this case you enter into a contract to get your domain back for a certain price, and if you don't get your domain back you cancel the check.
$1200? Dominican republic? (Score:3, Insightful)
But seriously -register a new domain and move on - your old domain will be on blacklists and won't be accessible from NetNannied systems.
How about just creating a subdomain under your school's domain - if the school is skuul.k12.ar.us, create paper.skuul.k12.ar.us and use that. That way, you save a domain fee, and you will only lose the domain if your school does something incredibly stupid.
Worse Than Scum (Score:1)
Domain names are meant to direct people to the appropriate and meaningful sites. When the system works so that something else happens, the sytem has to be held to task for this failure and reformed. Having a school newspaper's former url, against the will of that school, redirected to a porn site is not in keeping with this principle.
I realize that rules must be followed, but in this case the rules have bad, unintended consequences.
Domain name squatters really are scum of the earth.
Their business model is based on taking something that someone else has added value to and taking possession of said good (in this case, the domain name) and essentially holding it for ransom.
If one can get a wholesale rate for domain names, then it only costs about $1-$2/year per domain name. At that rate, squatting can be lucrative. Even if only 1% of sites get sold back at an average of $200, the squatter can make money. Remember that domain names used to cost $70/year, so paying a $200 ransom is not completely unreasonable.
There needs to be a systematic change in ICANN to strongly discourage this kind of squatting. Squatting provides no good, and in fact does a great deal of harm, by diluting the purpose of domain names, to direct people to the appropriate IP address.
A lot of once useful, or potentially useful domain names go wasted because of this secondary market.
One group that does profit great, though indirectly, from domain squatting are the legitimate registrars. Domain squatters help maintains a gold rush mentality that leads to preemptive and excessive domain name buying.
While the admin at the school screwed up by letting the domain name lapse, the system is also at fault for promoting such predatory
I'm not sure what the proper solution should be.
I am wary of anything as simplistic as requiring a domain name be used, as domain names can be parked for legitimate reasons, and the consideration is too subjective.
One idea is to charge a prohibitively high "tax" on domain name sales over a certain amount. This tax would then subsidize the arbitration process.
I suppose that this problem is one that must be faced by any secondary market. Ticket sales and scalping come to mind. Maybe the right idea is just to make resale of domain names above a certain mark-up totally illegal and void.
While primary-market sellers must treat any possible domain name as a common good that buyers can purchase from anyone, and thus shop around for price, secondary-market resellers have an effective monopoly power over any name they possess.
Another problem for any solution restricting reselling of names, is that work-arounds may come-up. A reseller may only "rent", rather than sell a site, and thus escape the restricions on selling.
I'm not sure of the answer, but this definitely is a problem that should be addressed. Perhaps some bright light reading this can come up with an answer.
Then they can suggest it to ICANN at their next meeting, which I believe is in the Marianas Trench.
Better yet, post it here on slashdot.
Re:Worse Than Scum (Score:1)
But they didn't and that is human error and it happens. A better system would allow for this human error without such undesireable consequences, namely that existing links from other sites would now be useless.
And it is also undesireable that this predatory secondary market of cybersquatting comes into existance. Cybersquatting is highly detrimental to the integrity of the domain name system, by taking out of potential usage a lot of otherwise useful domain names.
The domain name system has been hijacked by quick money schemes to the detriment of its real mission: to facilitate the meaningful exchange of information over the Internet.
A Word of Warning: DOTSTER (Score:2)
Like many of you, I once bought some domains from Dotster, during the time they were advertising their services on Slashdot.
After getting spam pestering me to buy more domains, I stopped dealing with them.
About a week ago, I logged into my Dotster account to see what domains I have left. I was shocked to see that next to all my domains was a checkbox that said "Auto-Renew" and was checked! I guess now that the domain name gold rush is over stealing money under the guise of a service is now considered a legitimate tactic by these sleazeballs.
You have been warned !
sex.com (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:sex.com (Score:1)
Cheapest is ADNDRC at USD 1000 (Score:1)
WIPO is all right, but at $1500 it's quite expensive. Of course, if you want to do it correctly the first time, you might want to use a specialist (not necessarily an attorney but someone who has done these cases previously).
NAF used to be pretty cheap, for $950 you could file couple of names. The procedure is pretty painless (well, you need to send them three copies of all docs, such as all registration papers, trademark docs etc. which can be a big bunch of paper and even cost some shipping costs if you live here in .eu).
Comparing the present day fees, the cheapest was The Asian Domain Name Dispute Resolution Centre (ADNDRC) $1000. If you do not put your faith in foreign princes, there's Nat'l Arbitration Forum $1150.
There is actually some work involved, and considering the amount of effort the arbitrators put in writing the decisions I think the price is quite reasonable. You could try to raise the money via a charity of some kind, a common enemy is a good way to gather cash as GWB might say...