How Hard Is It To Leave The U.S. For Jobs? 16
Durrik asks: "There have been many articles and comments posted on how easy it is to move from Canada to the U.S. for engineering jobs. I'm one of the engineers that has picked up on this and left Canada for the U.S. for an embedded programming job. But now the high tech economy is heating up again in Canada and I want to take advantage of it, and I'm sure others do, too. Does anyone have any experience, and comments on leaving the U.S. for engineering jobs, or is this something so strange that no-one even thinks of doing it? What laws and trouble would I need to go through to go back to Canada, as a citizen? But since this is an open forum what about those who are U.S. citizens and want to take advantage of the heating up high tech industry in other countries? "
Australia (Score:1)
If you are under 25 I think, there are like no immigration restrictions(aside from criminal record I suppose,
There are some pretty decent things going on there
technologically, it seems.
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Re:Big brother doesn't want you to leave (Score:1)
I have contemplated getting a job overseas after I graduate, and so this would be a great discussion for me to read. If only more people could see it...
-Smitty
It was a major pain, but it paid off for me. (Score:1)
Anyway, my best advice for you ( in addition to what the guy in Japan said about culture) is to become fluent in the language of your country of choice _before_ you arrive. I didn't and had to spend about a year working in bars and restaurants for barely subsistence level wages before my German was at a level where I could even consider trying for a job in IT. You'd be amazed at how little english helps, even in a country where everyone is required to learn the language in High School.
As far as Immigration goes, yeah, it is a royal pain in the ass. I was on 3 month tourist visas for the first year. After that, I had gotten my first "real" job working for a Systems Integrator (CompuNet), and it got a little easier -- new visas and work permits every 6 months. Sometimes, though, even the job didn't help, as the Arbeitsamt (the office responsible for the distribution and control of work permits) tried once to get me fired and deported ("the job could be much better performed by a native citizen..." blah blah blah). My company's lawyers got me through that one...
Currently, though, IT skills are in high demand. The German government is currently going through its own version of the H1-B Visa crisis, trying to decide whether or not to import low-wage IT workers from India and China, so (at least here) you should be able to find a receptive climate.
Try to get a solid contract before you move permanently. Maybe you can convince your current employer to give you an unpaid leave (mine wouldn't/didn't), which could give you a back door in case things don't work out like you plan.
I know a lot of companies are looking for skilled workers, particularly with extensive experience, in all areas of IT. I work for the Deutsche Telekom now, doing "IT Services," which is basically anything above layer 3 in the ISO model. There is a lot of demand for specialists in Client Server system design, and anything related to the Internet, including programming.
Work over here is pretty cool. Strict labor laws prevent no-notice terminations and 60+ hour work weeks, and provide little things like 30+ days of paid vacation a year (Woo Hoo!!). The Social system is also ok, medical insurance is a guarantee, and retirement options are not bad. Pay isn't bad, but not great. I bring in about DM 120K + bonus, which is upper middle class. The kind of astronomic pay some guys get in the States is pretty much unheard of, but you can do pretty well. Cost of living is different but about the same on average. A liter of Gas is about a dollar, but a good dinner for 2 in a good restaurant (very good by US standards...) is about 60 bucks. It balances out.
I can't complain. The work climate over here is great. Still, I am currently working to gather the money I need to return to the States in comfort. Buying a house here is really a lifetime project (anything larger than a single car garage costs upwards of $300K), and I miss my desert (I'm from Tucson AZ originally). Nontheless, I'm glad that I made the move 11 years ago; I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had over here for anything.
Re:Working Abroad (Score:1)
getting a visa to work in the US is not a bit easier!
greetings, martin.
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Re:Not too difficult with US experience (Score:1)
how did you get that idea?
when i came to the US it was definatly not for the money, because i made the same back in austria. but cost of living there is much lower.
you can't compare payscales without comparing the cost to rent an appartment and all that.
unless you are working for an american company, stock options are unheard of.
that is probably true though...
greetings, eMBee.
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Re:"Ask Slashdot" is one section of many (Score:1)
it would be nice though, to at least get a mention in one line.
That's why we have Slashboxes for certain sections
the slashboxes are ok, but they make it hard to spot new articles.
i'd like to see one slashbox that combines all articles that did not make it to the frontpage, with date and number of replies...
greetings, eMBee.
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Working Abroad (Score:1)
You have a lot of work to perswade the European companies they should go through the hassle and risk to get a foreigner a visa.
On contracts though there is a loophole. For stays under 6months its easy for the company's side. Because of that there
are several americans that get 6 month contracts in Europe. The problem is that to get one ofthese
contracts you usually need a couple years of experience. It can be very neat though.
For countries outside Europe, it is much easier, but you have to be careful
you pick a place that not only is safe but also has the industry
you want. I am a Brasilian that worked in the US for 7 years. Now
my company got me a job in Malaysia. It's been a great experience so far. Malaysia put in a lot of effor to atract American companies. That some times
is the best way to get a foreign job. Get a job in a local company that also has centers abroad and ask to work in another country. South America and South East Asia have many companies that are needing people because not too many americans think about spending one or two years on assignment down there. If you get the oppertunity, go for it. If you like travel or adventure, you will never regret it.
Re:It was a major pain, but it paid off for me. (Score:1)
Big brother doesn't want you to leave (Score:1)
WAs it removed prematurely?
Easy to work in the US? (Score:1)
Having to wait 6 months like I did this time to get a visa isn't very helpful for employers, and frustrating to the employees.
I also noticed that the was a very different time period in the US issuing visa's to people from the UK (average time of 5-6 months) when compared to say collegues of mine that are from India who said they had a quicker time (2-3 months). I wonder if different regions are more deeply looked into than others or am I getting paranoid?
Re:Big brother doesn't want you to leave (Score:1)
Working abroad (Score:1)
After studying Computer Science and minoring in Japanese at San Diego State University (I was the first to sign up for the "new" minor back in 1985), and studying in Japan for a year as an exchange student with mainstream Japanese students, I entered the company that I still work for in Tokyo.
My job search was pretty simple. Recruit U.S.A. holds (held?) two "Career Forums" each year, one in Boston, the other in San Francisco, which feature a large number of Japanese companies looking for U.S. educated employees (mostly looking for Japanese studying abroad, but most are open to any nationality). At the time (1991), there were a lot of oportunities for technical work. Those friends of mine from my Japanese courses who studied General Education or Business could only find English teaching jobs. I found the job I was looking for.
I then went (came?) to Japan during Spring break for follow up interviews. In the end, I deciding on the company that offered the least in the way of salary, but which I thought I would like the work the most. And since I'm still here 9 years later, still earning probably less than half what I could at another company or in the States, I'd say that I made the right choice.
The one thing that I would like to stress is that you must be willing to learn the culture. I can't tell you how much I hate running into gaijin (foreigners) who are loud and boisterous, always shouting about why "they" don't do things like "back home." There are different ways of doing things. Better or worse shouldn't be an issue. You must be able to accept the differences as the way things are.
For Japan, housing is small and expensive. If you work for an American company here, I understand that they pay a housing allowance higher than my monthly sallary. I would like to own my own home some day, but that'll be a long way down the road here.
If you have any specific questions, you can get in touch with me through my home page [icc.ne.jp].
I'd recommend living abroad if, for nothing else, to give you a different perspective on things.
"Ask Slashdot" is one section of many (Score:2)
If all articles approved for all sections were shown on the main page, the number of articles appearing would be unwieldy. That's why we have Slashboxes for certain sections, and links for things like "Apache" and "BSD" on the left for all approved articles in these areas, not just the ones that appear on the main page.
This lets us tailor our Slashdot experiences more to our topics of interest, while seeing the important articles on the main page, regardless of their section.
Go ahead (Score:2)
Not too difficult with US experience (Score:2)
I know quite a few americans who are working in europe in various hi-tech jobs. Most are doing it for the adventure and experience or because they met a special someone. None of them are doing it for the money. No pay scale in europe even comes close to what you can make in the US, and unless you are working for an american company, stock options are unheard of.
All of the 'merkins agree they are learning more and having more fun than if they stayed with their careers in the US. The biggest complaint is the lack of innovation and tendancy towards socialism over here. It doesn't matter how good or bad a job you do, everyone's careers plod along at the same pace. Any euro who wants to make a great leap in their career goes to the US.
If you get a few years of international experience under your belt on top of some US hi-tech, then you can always go back and write your own ticket. Many companies are desperate to expand their markets beyond the border, because they have to keep a 20% growth rate per year and they can't do that forever inside the US. So they look to places like europe and china, and if you walk in their door with a good proposal and some experience, they hire you to go develop the market.
I'm working a job right now where I travel 20 days per month around the world, in the office only about 1 week in 10. The pay is good, but I could be making twice as much in an american company. However, I get 7 weeks vacation per year, plus unbeatable healthcare (100% coverage and no HMO hassles) and belgian beer is cheap.
the AC