Where Are The WebPads?

strider415 asks: "After reading yet another article about WebPads, this time from Ericsson and running Linux, I have to wonder WHERE ARE THEY?! It's been years since I started to hear about the various WebPads in development and just around the corner. Have any of them been brought to market?" These devices sound really cool! Imagine making a phone call and browsing the Web all from the comfort of your sofa.

Old stuff...new stuff

[LinuxBean]

I have a ricoh g1200s (1996-$4000 2000-$150) which is a 486 tablet comp. with pcmcia slots. Iam just going to pop in a wavelan card and use it.

Re:Welcome to the physical world

[jmason]

I disagree. It would be perfectly feasible to build a webpad now, it'd just cost a fortune.

Basically the webpad reference designs and all the clones thereof require:

• a CPU, RAM and flash that can support a decent web browser (HTML 3.2, frames, Javascript? SSL?). Flash memory at the moment is apparently very pricey.
• a reasonably-sized color LCD screen
• rechargeable battery power
• short-range networking using the DECT cordless-phone technology, at the moment

My guess would be that to build this hardware at the moment, you'd wind up with an >$1000 price tag, once you include software costs, tax and a profit margin.

Also, another factor is that the Linux HTML4 browsers don't exist in a form factor that'll fit on embedded devices -- don't forget, these things don't have swap space at all. How big's your netscape running at the moment? Mine's at 35 megs. Ouch. And that's NS4.7, you should see what Mozilla does! ;)

Having said all that... maybe there is a market for it in the T3 readership [t3.co.uk]... but would it provide a big enough market to keep a company running?

(BTW this is all my opinion, not employer stuff)

Underwhelmed

[AntiPasto]

Well, PadSurfer.com [padsurfer.com] was all about the hype, but now the interest has died... [padsurfer.com] I think everyone gets this sense that it'll be the killer app, and I think the craze behind the Netpliance I-Opener is somewhat related... People want inexpensive quality hardware... and we don't want to have a desk-shrine to the devices.

Re:Welcome to the physical world

[ashtar_sheran]

Did you hear about Crusoe [crusoe.com]? The CPU market is ready to offer a small/low price processor with very-low power consumption. Memory?. Well, there are new models in production. Storage?. See Iomega [iomega.com] Click!. And, you don't need a 35MB browser!!!!! There are very small browser with a lot of features, like Opera [opera.com] Maybe, the reason would be "economic" (in terms of competivity with other hardware) and no technological

Goddamn good question

[Sebbo]

Yes, yes! This is why we BeOS junkies are biting our nails down to about the second knuckle. The maker of our favorite OS has decided to throw its fortunes into a product that DOESN'T FLICKIN' EXIST YET!! For fun sometime skim '99 Be press releases announcing BeIA webpads to be released Q1 '00. Grr.

Re:Welcome to the physical world

[jibun]

Speaking of Newton MessagePads, sadly there is such a thing as being too innovative too early. The office was not nearly as "paperless" in the early 90's as it's now. That's why Apple didn't get a sufficient clientele or an affordable supply of components for the thingy. In market economies one has to be able to define the product in terms of what consumers expect. In a world of razor thin margins, it's a no-no to surpass customer expectations.

this looks cool

[kawlyn]

this stuff looks cool, cdr, built in camera ( here) [qbenet.com], kinda expensive though and it comes with win98. That can be fixed though.

Welcome to the physical world

[Alex Belits]

We are acustomed to the development of software -- things are written in the text editor, compiled, and they are running (or being debugged what doesn't look too different). Both garbage and great things require about the same time to develop, just different people do it.

In physical world only very simple things are fast to develop -- trivial modifications of existing products, combinations of standard parts, possibly with some software-based sophistication added. But to make a new class of devices one has to spend months if not years just to make the first prototype, and the process is extremely costly. Small devices are the hardest to develop -- look at Newton, Palm, WinCE things, Itsy, etc. -- they spent years in development, required shitloads of custom parts for prototypes, and only if the product is successful (what means, it isn't a Newton), the company has a chance to recover its money (what means, it isn't WinCE thing or Itsy) using the benefits of mass-production.

Battery power, durability, etc.

[stienman]

Desktops and laptops are one thing, but the instant you want to make a 'pad' you run into the immutable wall of family life. Your pad needs to be as durable as the TV guide or remote control, if you want it to reside on your coffee table. People will sit on it, throw it around, bang it against tables/chairs/walls, set things on it, spill things on it, flex it, smother it (heat buildup), beat it, punch it, slam it, dunk it - within 2 weeks of getting it home. Not to mention trying to find it.

Of course we'll be careful with it, but unless the average consumer can use it, and let their kids bang on it, it isn't going to succeed. The average LCD screen simply won't stand up to everday use and abuse. Eventually some will enter the market, especially with transmeta, but they will be placed on high shelves, and not used as they were meant to be used.

If you study how companies design consumer appliances, you wonder why they seem to overbuild everything. If they didn't, everything would be returned in the 90 day period. WEBtv and other set-top boxes are a good start, but the remote and the keyboard are both easily lost, and the attention span of the consumer is too short to really go looking for it.

The next issue it battery size and weight. The LCD needs to be at least 5mm thick. Fitting all the electronics and battery around the edge, while feasible, is not practical, so the electronics go under the LCD. If you have everything custom made (down to the chip) then you perhaps might be able to make the electronics about 5mm thick. The shell needs to be another 5mm thick a least (not a very durable shell, either) so you end up with a 1.5cm thick web pad, not including the battery. Assuming we saved some space around the edges, you could probably fit a line of AAA size lithium-ion or NiMH batteries around the edge, but if you want decent power you'll end up with a custom flat pack, or AA size, either of which may increase the thickness of the pad. You now have a pad with low battery power, that weighs 1-3lb. This is too heavy to hold with one hand, using the other hand for input for long periods of time. Resting it against a knee or lap would work, but it would likely be at a less than ideal angle, and you get to deal with glare, wrist fatigue (ever tried taking notes on a notepad in your lap? You have to bend your wrist at an odd angle) etc.

This means it needs to be fast. The user doesn't want to wait to see the TV listings, nor wants to hold it while they wait. The wireless networking is going to be a bear, but it is necessary. Where does it connect to? The home computer? Now we need to assume a base station, which has a 56k modem in it, and 10baset. The modem for those who don't have computers and a network hookup, and the 10baset for those who do. And we need a charging stand of some sort.

So, what we have now is a flat base station, which mounts on the wall like a telephone, and which the pad can be placed into for charging, and use on the wall. The pad is about 2cm thick, and weighs about 2lb. We made it thicker, and are using a plastic which is *very* stiff, but not brittle, and cover the LCD with a clear, similar plastic and a touchscreen. As long as the consumer doesn't give it any sharp impacts (elbow to the screen, bang it against a corner, etc) then it will last for awhile. Between all of the design, manufacturing and other costs, this pad now costs $800, just twice as much as a new high-end palm or visor. We'll toss in a $400 dollar discount for those who signup with a 3 year contract to our internet service.

While this is reasonable, it would still take .5-1.5 years to develop, and we still don't believe consumers will buy it. EVERYTHING is custom. We aren't adapting another platform to this, there isn't anything that fits. We can use the crusoe, but it is untested, and even working closely with transmeta it still takes forever to get a bug or issue fixed. On a new platform this will take forever.

So, in short, we don't have pads because of durability, battery, and design reasons.

-Adam

"Responsibility is the price every man must pay for freedom" - Plato