Looking For U.S. Work Visa?

bueller asks: "We hear about the U.S. trying to increase the number of work VISAs available for foreign workers, and the long wait to get VISAs, but how are 'aliens' gaining work in the U.S.? Are certain companies more receptive to supporting non-citizens wanting to work in the U.S.? Are people just turning up and looking for work, or do they have work organised before arrival? I'd like to work in the U.S. for a couple of years, but I'm not sure if I should be applying directly to U.S. companies, applying for the small number of U.S. positions offered through agencies here, or going with companies that specialise in placing people in the US. "

Paranoia "is a dangerous road..."

[A Big Gnu Thrush]

There is some truth to this post, but mostly I think it's just paranoia. A lot of US firms are too myopic to retrain their valuable, older workers because their skillset has gone out of vogue, but the preference isn't for cheap foreign labor, it's for cheap young labor.

The reality is that while it may be difficult to get started working for a US company, the incentive for that company to treat you like a slave is diminished by the morass of laws and bureaucracy which goes with foreign workers. Don't just show up at Ellis Island and hope for a job. Work with reputable companies who need your skills and they will help you enter the country.

Good code is rare. If you can produce it, then you have a chance in any job market.

My expereinces with H1-B visas...

[trims]

First off, let me preface this by two caveauts: (1) I am a natural US citizen, so all the following is through talking with friends who've gone (or are going through) the visa thing, and (2) my experiences are relative only to the Computer Industry in the Boston, MA and Silicon Valley area.

The biggest advice that I can give to someone looking for a US-job is this: come here first. DON'T go through a foreign recruiting agency - most of my friends have had nothing but bad things to say about them. By coming to the US, you get three critical things:

1. Exposure to the culture. Can you stomach the way the US does things? (and remember, you're going to live here for years, so you better like the fucked up way we do stuff,) Can you relate to the people? - Americans are very different from any other culture.
2. Economics - while you're here, look at the various aspects of what it costs to live in the area of the US you're interested in: housing (both buying a house and renting a flat), food, transportation (what type of commute, is there public transportation, etc). Most likely, the economics of the US are considerably different from where you're from.
3. A true view of the job market. Go talk to some of the recruiting firms here, and ask for an overview of both the available jobs for your field, and then what companies have specifically stated they will support (or will specifically NOT support) foreign workers.

Coming to the US is fairly easy - one of the best ways is to get admitted to a US university for a year - you get a student visa, and you generally have 90 days afterwards to find a job before it expires (not to mention the time you're supposed to be in school). Student Visas from virtually any 1st-world country are a no-brainer. Likewise, if you don't want to do that, getting a 90-day tourist visa is a no-brainer, and tourist visas of up to a full year aren't hard to get. Remember, neither a student nor a tourist visa allows you to legally work in the USA.

On to the second part: working for a US company when you're a foreigner. A previous poster pointed out that foreigners are to a certain extent perceived as "cheap" labor. While I do think that this is a problem, this is more a function of how you sell yourself at a job interview. If you have in-demand skills, and, more importantly, have very good English communication skills, companies aren't going to treat you any different from a US worker. Finding qualified people is very hard for many positions, so any qualified applicant is going to be zealously sought-after. Do be aware that getting an H-1B visa costs the company extra, so they might offer you slightly less than a US-worker, but I think this is a fair trade off. Now, if you see that they're offering you only 2/3 what equivalent positions are advertised at, they're trying to take advantage of you.

Do rememeber than working on an H-1B visa is a temporary thing. You're not elligible for a permanent resident visa (Green card). Technically, you can't stay more than 5 years (though, this tends to be ill-enforced). Likewise, you're not supposed to be able to apply for a different type of visa once you have an H-1B, but I haven't heard of anyone ever having problems with that (the INS doesn't seem to really care). Also, H-1Bs require that you be employed by a sponsoring company at all times (actually, I think you have something like 30 days from quiting one company to getting hired by another) - this can be a problem, as you might feel required to stay at a company since they sponsor you. This is where many foreign workers get into trouble - they get hitched to a company that doesn't treat them well, then feel trapped, since they don't have the confidence to find another job. Look at the amount of work in your field, and judge how easy it would be to switch jobs (the 30-day window isn't enforced much, but I'd be leery of pushing it too much).

You should talk to your local US Embassy or Consulate about the various types of available visas, and what the restrictions are for each. Pay close attention to the industries that certain visas allow you to work in, travel restrictions (can you come and go freely to your country or not?), and to whether the visa is tied to a sponsoring company or if it is granted to you (and thus, floats with you as you move employers).

Send me a note if you're interested in more info, and I'll see what I can help you with.

-Erik

Watch where you walk, this is a dangerous road...

[Kefaa]

I have worked with several companies that make use of foreign labor. The reality is that unless you have a very specialized skill (i.e. quantum physics, chip design, etc.), you are here because you are less expensive than US labor. In order to be less expensive you are most likely from a country where the standard of living expenses are less (for example India).

While people would like to believe they are brought here because of their skill, that is very rare. More than likely you will work through a consulting firm with US supervisors making the absolute minimum. Now, you will hear that the US has laws against this, but it is not true. The companies merely have to hire enough foreign help to ensure they are all paid equally poor for the same job.

While I am painting with quite a wide brush, it is really sad for everyone. Chances are you will not find a consulting firm that is looking for much but cheap labor. You will also find most companies do not want H1B holders because they become responsible for the employee, even if the employee is, shall we say, lacking.

To step nearly off topic for a moment...
I have been told about a recent article in one of the leading magazines (Time, Newsweek, US News ?) has US programmers as a breed headed for extinction. That we cannot compete in the global marketplace now that connectivity is so cheap. If you do not believe it, consider I recently worked with a group from India, sent to the US to pick up work and take it back. Not recent graduates, but people with advanced degrees and an incredible work ethic, all for about $30/day. The vast majority of developers are not innovation specialists, they are churning code and the least expensive will win in the commodity market.

Good luck to you.

Business Proposals.

[BoLean]

There are some really good suggestions here, but another may be to team up with someone looking to start a business. The US is a great environment for starting a business, and as a partner in a business you would be less likely to be taken advantage of. This assumes you still have the skills to get the business running. For instance, I know I'd jump at the chance to collaborate with a well educated Indian programmer who wanted to start a programming outsourcing firm. As a business relationship this works quite well since one partner is the US resident with the ability to get things rolling on the US end and the other has the skills/connections for outsourcing the work in his/her home country. Both have leveredge and stand to benefit from the collaboration.

Re:NAFTA

[compwizrd]

What i find interesting, is the bias against non-degree holding people. What happens if someone didn't want to waste three to four years of their life, falling behind in their chosen field? Now the INS comes along and says you can't move to the US.

Doesn't seem right to me.

Re:Watch where you walk, this is a dangerous road.

[costas]

I don't believe that all software will be shipped abroad --and I would want it too, coz then I could move back home to Europe :-)... there are so, so many things that require face-to-face contact between engineers to develop a common design path, common goals and of course, team spirit. Of course all this depends on the company and the people running it.

Now, back to the original poster's question. Yes, there are a lot of H-1B slave-shops. But there are also a lot of true high-tech companies that look for real talent. And usually, in the US, foreigners hang out with foreigners: if a coupla get in a firm, they will bring more. Actually, the pattern I have seen is that either the company has a *lot* of non-Americans (like mine; us foreigners are about 70% of the developer team) or almost none.

So keep that in mind when you're looking for a job; if a company makes a big deal about the H-1, the paperwork and all that, it's probably a company that doesn't have that many non-US workers, and you'll probably be better off if you don't train the HR department yourself :-)... Now, to separate the H-1 slaveshops from the legitimate companies, look at their job offer: if their offer is say less than 80% of the industry average, it's probably a slaveshop --that 20% is actually justified, because if nothing else you'd have to get up to speed with the ways of business here, plus attorney fees and crap like that.

Good luck to ya...


engineers never lie; we just approximate the truth.

Why not more open?

[hypos]

Why does the United States (and other countries) have so stringant immigration laws? I *thought* that the United States was a country of immigrants. Why do we try to stop the flow into our great melting pot of cultures. Multi-Ethnicity is a must. For we are all one species.

US Work Visas - Landed Immigrant Status?

[BigBlockMopar]

Okay, now here's a slightly off-topic post, and while I really don't want to be moderated down on my *very first day* with an actual Slashdot user account, this has to be said.

I'm not interested in a temporary work visa since that won't qualify me as a landed immigrant, if I understand correctly the above comments and all the US Immigrations info I've already read.

Now, as a Canadian citizen tired of seeing hundreds of dollars in taxes gone with every paycheck to fund really silly things like the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and canoe museums while our infrastructure crumbles, I can't say that I'm proud to be a Canadian. I curse my parents every day for the fact that they couldn't have driven to Buffalo for my birth. {grin}

More importantly, I love the US, and actually look forward to having to send taxes to the IRS. (At least they don't build canoe museums with it while the federal debt runs out of control!) I love the American people, the American spirit, the American resolve. I'm well-informed about current affairs in the US; I follow US domestic news constantly. Being in Toronto now, I've visited a large percentage of the 50 states on many driving trips to visit with friends and family. One day, I look forward to the responsibility and the honor of being an American citizen.

So, have any of my fellow computer geeks out there in Slashdot land heard of, tried, or seen an effective way of being hired by a US employer and pursuing landed immigrant or permanent resident status?

Sort of off topic, but if you're an American employer looking for an ambitious, young, self-taught and loyal Canuck computer geek with:

Analog and digital hardware experience

Lots of Windows 9x and apps experience, little bit of NT and Linux, former programmer in TMS9900 assembly language

Professional audio, video, simultaneous interpretation and lighting experience (includes lots broadcast video equipment, care and feeding of NTSC video signals)

Experience in radio, PA and TV voice-over work (kinda got asked to do it by a director who heard me do a mic check once)

Proprietary marine radar and engine control experience, including analog design and prototype assembly of failsafe radar video circuitry for a major American defense contractor (Fortune 500, you *have* heard of the company)

Airport security policy and flight information system (FIDS) experience

Automotive engine control electronics, as well almost all other aspects of automotive repair and maintenance (hobby - I actually enjoy getting dirty on weekends)

Dangerously literate, warped sense of humor and a excellent work ethic

Can name every state capitol

...you can get a hold of me at [e-mail] [mailto]. I'd love to forward a resume to all interested.

(You wouldn't moderate this down if you saw my Canadian federal income tax payments last year.)

BigBlockMopar

NAFTA

[Johnzo]

I'm a Canadian systems analyst working in the U.S. under a NAFTA TN-1 visa. The TN is a temporary 1-year thing that can be renewed indefinitely. It can be issued in a few minutes at most any US / Canada border crossing, if your credentials (offer letter, proof of degree and / or experience, and proof of citizenship) are in order.

I believe that Mexicans also qualify to receive it, but I'm not sure if there are additional restrictions there.

There's lots and lots of professions that are eligible for TN-1's. Note that Programmer/Analyst positions are not eligible, although some HR departments are willing to phrase their requirements in the form of a Systems Analyst position in order to get a good candidate down from Canada.

There's some more information at www.grasmick.com [grasmick.com]

zo.

Re:NAFTA

[Imabug]

If you're a Canadian, and looking for a job that's one of the eligible professions, then the TN is the way to go. Relatively easy to get provided you have the proper documentation. Basically all you need is a letter from your prospective employer. The letter needs to state certain things, otherwise you'll be turned away by the INS official processing your application (kind of sucks if you've already got the plane ticket and are ready to go). You can also apply for new TNs by mail, which I'm told takes a few months.

One thing to be careful of is that you don't tell the INS guy you want to renew your TN. Technically the TN is for temporary employment only and is non-renewable. You just apply for a new TN each year. Otherwise you might face end up being looked at a little more closely by the INS official.

Oh, and it'll cost you about $56US for the TN. $50 for the TN itself, and $6 for the I-94.

imabug

Re:Why not more open?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious or are you a troll? Whatever, I'll bite. Immigration controls are not an issue of discrimination or racism, they are simply an economic necessity. If immigration was uncontrolled then this would place a huge burden on the taxpayers of the "desirable" countries (USA, UK, Canada, Australia etc), which would be bad for everyone, citizens and immigrants alike.

If a large number of unskilled immigrants entered a country then it is unlikely that they would find employment, and the welfare state would have to subsidise them. Similarly, if a large number of highly skilled immigrants entered a country then they could displace the existing, less-skilled, workers out of employment. There just isn't enough employment to go around, and other resources (healthcare, education, housing) are also scarce. Hence most countries try to reduce immigration, unless there is a huge skill shortage in the country. In fact, many developed countries have very lenient immigration controls and are willing to grant residence to many immigrants who are seeking political asylum, even though it doesn't make economic sense to do so.

Because Linus Torvalds can't get in!

[Tackhead]

...and if he can't get in, what hope is there for anyone else?

> There just isn't enough employment to go around

Then why are US high-tech companies chronically starved for talent and hiring foreigners? Why are the 115,000 H-1B visas subject to the cap used up in the first 6 months of the fiscal year? Surely it's not because companies want to file paperwork and wait for 3-6 months for INS to authorize them to hire these people?

We are in a period of record low unemployment - when even burger flippers with no experience are demanding $10-15 per hour. When Denny's is resorting to recruiting from Canada, fer fsck's sake, you can't expect to be taken seriously when you say something like "there just isn't enough employment to go around".

My beef with US immigration policy is threefold:

• Emphasis on amnesty for impoverished illegals in order to get votes -- but nothing to service legal, taxpaying nonimmigrants (TNs and H-1Bs), and active measures to delay immigrant (Green Card) processing to render it impossible for people getting green cards through work. You can come into the country poor as dirt and marry an American, and you can apply for the green card in a matter of weeks. But actually contribute to the economy? Have skills and get hired? Your application passes through four bureaucracies (SESA, DOL, INS, DOS) for years, during which time your temporary visa expires or your company ceases to exist. You're skilled enough to get another job the next morning by walking across the street to the next .com, but you have to start the paperwork over again. Got a good job and get paid six figures? We don't want your kind.

  You think I'm making that up? I'm talking about Linus fscking Torvalds [shusterman.com] fer chrissakes.

• A labor certification process that, at least in California, takes 3-6 months for the labor cert (or three years if you fill the paperwork out wrong), a year (!) for the I-140, where the employer asks INS for permission to apply for a green card, and either "another 6 months for processing by the State Department" or "3-5 years for processing by INS". That is, a system in which green card applicants tend to have their H-1Bs expire before the company can hire them. The US wants TNs - because they have to leave the country when the job goes away and applying for a green card makes it easy to reject a TN renewal. They want H-1Bs for the same reason - you still gotta leave when your time's up. But US immigration policy is heavily stacked against anyone coming here with the intention of working permanently in the US.

• A budgetary structure where INS' "enforcement" arm (mission: imprison and deport legals and illegals alike) is funded from Congress, but their "service" arm (mission: process forms from businesses seeking to exercise their rights under the law) is funded from service fees. Guess which arm actually has a hope in hell of fulfilling its mandate? Guess which arm is underfunded to the point where the fastest transactions are measured in weeks, and the slowest are measured in years?

Bottom line - I'm strongly in favor of requirements that ensure foreigners can't be underpaid relative to US workers. But especially in high tech, where there are Simply Not Enough skilled workers, if a company wants to hire a foreigner on a permanent basis let 'em. Geeks make companies grow. Geeks pay taxes. Geeks rarely consume social services. They're about as low-drag as it gets on the economy.

When a governmental bureaucracy can't move fast enough to let someone like Linus Torvalds into the country in a sane timeframe, their game plan is made pretty fscking obvious. We live in an environment where our companies come and go in two years - any process whereby it's expected to take 2-3 years to hire a person permanently is obviously designed with the sole purpose of keeping people out, and it's plain to see that INS doesn't give a rat's arse about the damage they're doing to our economy in the process.

Canadian Braindrain

[mcdade]

If you happen to be a Canadian, there is a pretty easy way to get into the US to work, it's called the TN-1 work permit. It is designated under the NAFTA (so i suppose it's valid for Mexican's too) which allows skilled workers with degrees from college or university work in the US. This seems to be adding to the intellectual drain on Canada because companies in the US can pay higher wages then a Canadian counterpart. If you live in a Border city and willing to commute, you can make more money working in the US and bringing it back to Canada. All you require for this 1 year renewable permit is a Degree, a letter from the hiring firm stating position, salary and that you are not removing a job from an American and your $56usd registration fee (i think that what it is). You can get this done in one day at any International border crossing. There should be at least one Nafta officer per crossing, but beware cause sometimes they work weird hours and you have to be there when they are there to get it done.

Some companies like this because they can interview an hire with little problems, all they need to produce is that letter and the person can take care of the work permit.. no problems to the company at all.

Re:Fast green card= EB2 + NIW

[bradleyjg]

EB2 are difficult/impossible to get in a reasonable amount of time if your from india or china (becuase the quota is per country) but otherwise this is a viable alternative to H1B that leads to permanent residence instead of just temporary permission to work.
As for NIW, unless you are a nuclear scientist I wouldn't hold your breath, a better bet is RIR - reduction in recruitment which we let you bypass full labor certification.
None of these solutions are trivial - it is well worth your time and money to find a good immigration attorney - try to get a personal recommendation, or if you are desperate email me.
(bradley#DON'T SPAM ME#@lisolutions.com)

Re:NAFTA

[Imabug]

Generally for the people eligible for TNs, the 3-4 years spent getting a degree is hardly a waste of time. That degree is usually essential for advancing in their field regardless of where they choose to work. Not getting that degree would cause them to fall behind. Besides, these people usually have their degrees anyway.

imabug

Re:NAFTA

[compwizrd]

I guess the problem is, we're speaking generally. There's only one or two classifications that involve computers there, which doesn't really require a degree to be good in what you're doing. I'd hate to be where someone in some of the other categories didn't have their degree =)