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Hardware

Hackable Hardware? 12

Cédric Adjih asks: "I wanted to build my own small-and-cool RISC box (such as an Itsy), or even much smaller, in order to control self-made robots, or other simple homebrew electronic circuits. But the retail-price for individual electronic components is often way too high ($1000 for a RISC evaluation board, $150 for a RISC processor, $1000 for PC/104 with 486 card, ...). Since there is a trend towards more and more powerful and cheap electronic devices (calculators, PDA, agendas, Inet boxes,...), the only rational way is to buy one, and to hack it. But this require internal hardware information, and also a way to interface with circuits (such as via I2C). Does anyone have information about WWW pages describing such hardware or such hacking? An example candidate for the low-end would be the TI-89 (68000 at 10Mhz, 188K ram, 384 K Flash, easy interface with PC, LCD display ; at $150+. Hard to beat that by buying the individual components...), but there might be better, or more powerful... "
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Hackable Hardware?

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  • Let I follow-up my own post :-)

    The microcontrollers quoted by the miscallenous posters are a good solution for electronic/robotic projects, so I'll try this first.

    However if a robot gets complex, for instance if a video camera is added, more power is needed. And also, it is cool to have one own "wearable device"/PDA/whatever.

    I initially thought that I'd only have to buy a better microcontroller, or processor, but the mass-market hardware looks much cheaper than the sum of the retail prices of the individual components :-(.

    So hackable devices look like the next step. Plus imagine adding 128 MB DRAM , 64 MB flash, or a GPS device, or a 20 Gb hard-disk to your small pocket device...

  • I think that your needs are best solved with the ucsimm. Its relatively cheap ($210), however, it already runs uCLinux, has 8 mb ram, 2 mb flash, and all the development tools set out. That means more of your time will be spent developing your application, rather than hacking up TI hardware. ;) Check out the uclinux website [uclinux.com].
  • It sounds like you are going way overboard with your system requirements. For 2-3 bucks you can get a RISC PROM MicroController (10 bucks for the erasable ones) These can be programmed to do a lot (it involves assembler, but thats half the fun)

    I have used the PIC16C7XX series from Microchip [microchip.com] to do a number of useful things (it has 2 I/0 ports and a A/D converter) it really wouldn't be too hard to get one of these things to control some sort of robotics.

    What you do is you write your program with the free software and simulate it. (All software is free along with the specs. and manual for the PIC) After you get it right, you burn it on a chip and boom you have a chip that will do what you programmed it to!
  • The IR port would make it a perfect universally interfacable hack project..

    I've got a Handspring Visor, and have continually thought of hacking it..
  • I have used a PIC16F84 for a simple control project that involved interfacing a computer via RS232 and a spectrophotometer. There's no A-D but they can be fast (I used 10Mhz) and can be programmed in C if you are prepared to pay for a compiler (CSS do a good one that I used - link from the microchip web page)

    I would seriously recommend thinking about a PIC as the interface chip, wired up to a palm pilot serial port, write the software for the palm an your sorted.

  • I plan to try out the cybiko -- look at www.cybiko.com -- later in the summer. I have not had a close look at their developers kit yet. Nor have I talked to anyone who has one, let alone has actually hacked on it, which I would really like to do before I pay that much. Does anyone here have any experience with them ?

  • Eval kits and other cheap devices have always been my savior. Not the $3K ones that some companies dish out (ick), but in the $100-300 vein.

    The uCsimm has already been mentioned, and that is based on the Dragonball (MC68EZ328) just like the Palm. You can get an ARM evaluation board that has a 25MHz ARM implementation from Sharp (LH77790B) for about $150. The URL [arm.com].

    Both of these have all sorts of logic already on board, such as serial ports, LCD controllers, timers, yada yada. The uCsimm runs uClinux (again, as mentioned before), and the ARM eval. board can run eCos, a product of Cygnus^H^H^H^H^H^H Red Hat. Both CPUs are supported by gcc, so no having to deal with weird third-party compilers. eCos is a little rough around the edges, but it might be sufficient for what you need.

    Advantech [advantech.com] has a fair selection of x86 hardware of all different shapes, sizes, colors, textures, and flavors. Their use in portable applications is questionable at best... (Where did Transmeta go?!?)

    There is also the LART [tudelft.nl], which is a StrongARM-based board, but they aren't sold pre-assembled, so it is a DIY job. And unless you have the facilities to do boards with surface-mount components, it would be rather difficult to accomplish solo. I would have one were it not for that one wrinkle.

    You can do web searches on things like "embedded processor", "microcontroller", "digital signal processor" and find other eval kits (maybe even reasonably-priced ones!). There are plenty out there.

  • Hmmm...

    TI-89. Linux. TI-89. Linux. ..... click here [mailto], click Send.

    We are working with Linux 2.0.33 + uClinux [uclinux.org] patch + DragonBall port of uClinux.

    No code yet. Help us fix that :).

  • Personally, I am a big fan of Motorola's 68HC12's. You can get all of them for under $50, and many come with copious amounts of either RAM, EEPROM, or both. Some can even be interfaced with up to 1MB of external EEPROM/NVRAM. I have built several small autonomous robots with these, and I don't think I ever spent more than $100 on the chip and its support components. Also, programming it is very easy from a PC, but I've never found an AS12 complier for Linux or the Mac, so if you don't have and old 486 sitting around with windows (because I'm sure you use linux on your desktop), then you might be out of luck.
  • You could try something with a GameBoy?
    http://pages.prodigy.net/fischer-john/
  • by Nelson ( 1275 ) on Sunday May 28, 2000 @06:54AM (#1042435)
    They are much cheaper. You should be able to find a pentium-166 class PC/104 from Jumptec for under $500
    Try here [emj.com]


    Buy the time you get the modules you want it may be in the thousand dollar range, VGA lcds aren't so cheap either. Test kits aren't cheap either but you should be able to find a PC/104 with VGA out and super I/O for under $500 and then it's just a matter of putting it all together. If you go embedded and dump the super I/O you can probably get them for half that but you'll need a test/developers kit to work on it.


    To be honest, with the low costs of those machines, I'm surprized there haven't been more hacking efforts. You could easily crank out an MP3 juke with those for you car (all you'd need is the PC/104 and an audio module and a drive) Or little firewall bricks or all sorts of cool things can be done with them cheap.

  • by dutky ( 20510 ) on Saturday May 27, 2000 @03:01PM (#1042436) Homepage Journal

    The Palm IIIe, which costs about $150, has a 16MHz Dragonball processor (MC68K derivative) along with 2MB of RAM and a couple of serial ports (one of which is an IrDA port). There is a fair amount of hacking information available on the web for the Palm devices, and you can get a stripped down version of Linux for it.

    The only big drawback I can see, for the IIIe specifically, is that it doesn't have any flash memory, so you can't burn your own software into it, as you can with the IIIx or IIIxe. Still, you could always write your software for PalmOS, since there is a fair amount of information and software available for that.

    If you are just going to doing robotics projects, however, you may want to look at some of the single chip microcontrollers, like the 683xx, 68HC12 or 68HC16 families from Motorola. Some of those have both RAM and EEPROM built-in, as well as a handfull of usefull peripherals (serial ports, ADC, DAC, etc.) and cost only a few (to a few tens of) dollars each.

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