Who Controls The Linux Media ? 113
Paul Emms asks "I run LinuxLinks.com - a Linux portal and recently we added a personalised calendar service to our Web site. We submitted an article to LinuxToday (owned by internet.com) and it was published only to be pulled almost immediately. The reason given was that Web site enhancements are no longer news. But wait a minute, this sort of thing has made the news before. LinuxStart announced a similar calendar service, and who owns LinuxStart? Why internet.com of course." You have to admit, that's a pretty good reason to start asking questions...
"This opens up a number of questions about how we judge the news we read. Linux is becoming big business and there are vested interests. Web sites are merging and being taken over by large conglomerates. Who determines the impartiality of the news we read ? Who determines what is news and what is advertising ?
LinuxToday is one of the major daily Linux newsites and they determine that enhancements to major Linux Web sites like LinuxLinks is not important. But LinuxLinks is independent - it
isn't owned by internet.com and it isn't owned by VA Linux. Is it, and sites like it, being penalised because they don't have a monopoly in the Linux media ? And is this really in the spirit of the Linux movement ?
Paul Emms
pwe@firstlinux.com"
Honest? (Score:2)
Rejected story (Score:1)
Why is some people so god damn paranoid???
Re:Honest? (Score:1)
Media is god (Score:1)
Not again (Score:4)
What I think we should have here before we can even start reacting is a reply by either Linuxtoday or internet.com I am not wanting to see another witchhunt here.
I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:2)
Just because it is happening in Linux now which is Free Software? Because your motives don't seem so pure to me. They want money, and so do you.
I think you need to understand the difference between Linux as a business and Linux as a free operating system. If you were developping your own open source project, and contributing to the community you would get all the publicity you needed (and deserved depending on the quality of your product). If you want to make money out of this, then the same business rules as everywhere else apply.
Not really all that unbelievable (Score:1)
Companies will plug their own services and products at any available oppertunity, after all it's not exactly unheard of.
The same applies on the net as it does in real life, don't always trust what you read in the news.
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
--
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
First accepted, then they reconsidered, and maybe had some more interesting stuff to show...
It's not the end of the world...
I have had a story rejected on slashdot, but I don't think it was a complot, probably it was just a lousy story....
You guys are missing the point (Score:5)
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
remember why the "linux media" exists! (Score:3)
and just as we, in our roles in the tech industry, should not forget the companies and people that gave us the choices that linux, freebsd, gnu, x, apache, etc give us those magazines should remember the frustrations involved in having to start an entire side industry just to get free software noticed.
in other words we should reward those that play fair, and companies should market their integrity.
Slashdot & Katz's Open Media (Score:4)
A few weeks ago, Katz put up an essay on Open Media, which got promptly dissed. However, in situations like this, there is something to be said for an "open" media area where control of the stories posted is only done by the users, with minor content checking by moderators (so that we don't get fake news stories, etc). Freshmeat is a great example of this, though this is not 'news' as most think.
Could a similar site be done in the vien of Freshmeat, but with news? Maybe. Obviously, you would need a select few moderators that nix stories that don't belong there ("Look at my hot new pr0n site!"). Since it would be real-time, it would be necessary to have some language-check program on submissions to see if a similar article had not already been posted. It could be done, but would take some good behind-the-scenes programming.
Then comes the matter of associating it with being a "linux news" site. Slashdot did not force it's reputation on high level magazines, but itstead it was earned that by word-of-mouth. A site described above could also earn it's way by the same approach: if the site people create it well and make it work, then it too will become a linux news site by word of mouth. And then we won't have to worry about large corporate news sites failing to work for us.
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:4)
Take a counter example. Say slashdot posted, then pulled, a positive post regarding Penguin Computing. Would that be ethical? It's a tough call, but if Slashdot wants to be considered a journalistic site rather then an advertising site, it's a bad idea, ethical or not.
What it boils down to is simple. Internet.com can do as they please, but if they discriminate against the competition, it's hurts their reputation. Perhaps speaking out about it will give them cause to rethink the policy
whois is your friend (Score:2)
Oh, wait. Nevermind.
Anyway, this looks like a simple case of a company deciding not to promote a competing service. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. After all, if I were making widgets, would I really announce it on my web site when some competitor comes along and starts making widgets?
Now if I've missed something here, please let me know...
---
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
Thats what I mean with paranoia! You also seem to have a sting of it...
Its their media, let them do what they want of it...
Re:Slashdot & Katz's Open Media (Score:3)
You're talking about kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org].
---
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:1)
Offtopic ranting. (Score:3)
Is anyone else annoyed by the big Internet.com "network"? It seems that they are going around and buying every single worthwhile and half-worthwhile website out there? After the site is acquired, it becomes slower than it was before, because they fill it with ads and links to their other sites.
During the last year, this has happened to many of the sites I frequent. I'm getting really bugged, and a even a little scared. This post on Slashdot just gives me another reason to be so.
- TheCounter [thecounter.com] was an excellent counter service. They had a website with two banner ads on each page, and a nice clean layout. The counters they provided loaded quickly and reliably. After having been acquired, the website was redone to something that makes my eyes hurt, and the counters started either taking ages to load, or failing to load at all. Their solution? Create a new account so that it exists on our new server.
- No major changes yet at LinuxApps [linuxapps.com], except for all the links and ads for the other Internet.com sites. However, the same problem as the one listed in this post arises. Would a post about Freshmeat on LinuxNewbie [linuxnewbie.org] be pulled because Internet.com owns LinuxApps, which is similar to Freshmeat? This is, apparently, what happened in this case.
- BrowserWatch [browserwatch.com], LinuxNewbie [linuxnewbie.org], PHPBuilder [phpbuilder.com], and a lot of other sites I frequent have all been bought by Internet.com. There haven't been major changes on them yet, besides all the annoying links and logos, but this post gives me more reason to be paranoid.
I guess a few companies are currently trying to capture as much eyeballs on the web as possible to have more control, in order to be able to continue to capture more and more eyeballs. Sounds familiar? I think that the point here (if there is any) that all corporations are the same, be it meatspace or here. There is absolutely no reason to trust them, and they must be watched and kept in check.--
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:1)
internet.com have the legal right (IANAL ofc) to promote their websites. They have the moral obligation to be objective and treat all websites/companies/etc fairly, but this (some say fortunately, others say unfortunately) cannot be enforced.
At the end of the day, we, the users, will decide if internet.com gets our vote of confidence (and money). So it would not be in their long-term interests to cross the line.
Re:Rejected story (Score:2)
Hardly paranoia - in fact, speaking as someone who used to work in big media (part of the Murdoch empire), it sounds pretty plausible.
Real world example? Well, there's the real and intimate connection between a local tech rag's advertising income and editorial inches. Or the way that the TV listings for local papers show plenty of detail on the pay TV channels owned by the publisher of the paper, but little on free-to-air ones outside his empire. All fair game in the modern newsroom, of course, but it's worth paying attention to these things when assessing the creditbility of what you see.
More problematic is what you never get to see. Reportage on the CIA role in the murderous coup in Chile in 1973 isn't too big in the USA, I understand. So people in .us don't even know what questions to ask on that score. And I doubt the local current affairs progamme sponsored by an arm of GM would give too much covereage to any corporate malfeasance in that company.
Do it yourself then (Score:1)
So, create your own news site and publicise what you want to publicise. And may the best, most impartial and most open news sites win.
What's the problem? Check the dates, people. (Score:5)
You then moan that a similar story had been published before.
Yes. In July. LAST YEAR.
A year ago, such things may have been news. They certainly aren't now.
If the "rival" story had been published in the same month, in replacement to yours, then you'd have a point. You don't have one *at all* in this situation.
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
And then there is Dan Rather giving 5 minutes of CBS air time to a glowing eulogy of "Izzy" Stone, calling him a 'journalists journalist'. Izzy Stone was a paid psycophant for Stalin and the CPA, who never missed an opportunity to slam America and political system. Dan was right, however. Izzy Stone is a perfect model for Rather's journalism. That fawning interview of the Clintons being just one example.
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:3)
I hardly think that's the right term for an editorial decision about what a private publisher chooses to publish. Oh shock horror, a media source promotes itself rather than its competitors. Help! Help! We live in a police state!
And, more importantly, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as Slashdot deleting all references to kuro5hin. It might be analagous to slashdot not posting any stories about kuro5hin, which, to the best of my knowledge, is actually the case.
Two Questions... (Score:2)
2) Does it do something different(ly)?
If either answer is "No", it's justifiable in my mind that Linux Today consider it 'not newsworthy'.
It's not this case, its the issue... (Score:2)
Corporate Amorality Filter (Score:5)
Dan Gillmor has been addressing the question of trust in his weblog [mercurycenter.com] over the past couple of days. Of what I have read there, one thing in particular seems to ring true. When information is disseminated by or on behalf of a corporation, it seems to go through a corporate amorality filter. After it has been through this process, it will only contain that aspect of the overall picture which the corporation wishes to present. In the case of this particular complaint, the filter may have judged, "this kind of thing is not newsworthy in its own right, and it does not promote our own ends: therefore it is rejected." Is it too cynical to suppose that self-interest plays a part in the filtering process of an amoral corporation?
In many cases, the truthfulness of the filtered information is not a big issue. Indeed, the corporate amorality filter does not really have a clear concept of true and false, but of spin. Everything is phrased so that it has the right spin. Certainly the filter shies clear of stuff that might get them embroiled in litigation for slander, libel, or defamation (etc), but the simplistic concepts of true and false don't really factor into the equation. When Microsoft claims that its innovation is good for the industry and consumers, there's nothing in that statement which they can get into legal trouble over, and hence no reason not to make the statement, given that it is the view they wish to present. Whether or not it is true by any measure is not the issue: the point is that it's a legally allowable statement that they wish to be perceived as true.
So what do you do? You get cynical, but not too cynical. You have to assume that all the information you get has gone through some kind of filter. Even when Slashdot wasn't a corporate entity, all the information still went through the Taco Filter. You have to make allowances for where the information is coming from. In a very few cases, you will find people that have a dedication to frank and open honesty -- people who do have a notion of true and false instead of just spin, and these are valuable. You still have to take the filter into account, but to a substantially smaller degree.
So where can the Linux community get its news from? The simple answer is that we always need more than one source, simply so we can average out the effect of the various filters. Slashdot, for example, gives me a fairly rich range of stories to pick from, but I know for sure (based on the submissions that I've had rejected) that its filter is not ideal to my needs. And Slashdot does seem to have the advantage of an open comment system that, although noisy, doesn't seem to have been abused by thems that could do so if they wanted to.
Short version: the price of reliable news is eternal vigilance.
Re:Rejected story (Score:1)
Re:Slashdot & Katz's Open Media (Score:2)
As I mentioned before, freshmeat is the closest to the ideal news site that I can think of easily.
How to get publicity (Score:1)
why the fuck is parent modified as offtopic? (Score:1)
yes it is old news (Score:2)
The Linuxstart news post is dated July last year. Thats a YEAR AGO.
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:1)
Re:Slashdot & Katz's Open Media (Score:1)
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:1)
No, they have no *responsibility* to use it fairly.
If they want others to view them as a fair source of information it is in their best interest to act fairly.
The webgame is all about delivering eyeballs. If the eyeballs are 'linux users' they do not care. And, in a weeks time, this thread will go away, no one will care. No one has the time to track and then not use 'unfair' services. And, odds are, anyone who DOES care about 'fairness' doesn't use calandering software on other servers.
Here's something in the way of an answer: (Score:5)
obDisclaimer: I don't represent internet.com or LinuxToday. Anyone who says I tried is full of it.
I post to LinuxToday on a daily basis (my user name is "mhall"), and I write for LinuxPlanet [linuxplanet.com] (you can also l ook at my article history [linuxtoday.com]. My status in both relationships is that of a freelancer ("independent contractor").
There is a policy against announcing new site launches. I don't know when it was enacted because I'm fairly new to LinuxToday. I can say, however, that we routinely reject new site announcements. If one gets posted, it was a mistake.
There's another side of the coin, though, and one which the person posting the initial question could have followed: part of the LinuxToday "family" is the site LinuxPR [linuxpr.com], which allows anyone with a Linux-related business or site to join at no cost. [linuxpr.com]
By signing up for LinuxPR, anyone posting a Linux-related press release (new product announcement, conference, or, most important to this case, site launch) gets their press release posted not only on the main page of LinuxPR, but on the front page of LinuxToday. Press releases are posted on a frequent basis as we're able. My own personal habit is to look in on the press releases several times an hour while I'm posting stories. I even take the step of correcting bad URL's and cleaning up some of the more egregious grammar problems.
Second, sites doing more than just announcing their existence are always welcome to use the LinuxToday contribute form [linuxtoday.com].
Spend a few minutes looking at LinuxToday, please. Where do the stories come from? They come from other sites. How much of each story do we carry before pointing the reader to the rest of it? Seldom more than three or four paragraphs. When we have a reciprocal agreement with an organization like VNUNet [vnunet.com] or when the story is run by another internet.com site that isn't in the Linux channel we'll run the whole thing (which, when you think about it, is actually limiting the number of banners the internet.com site is going to move.) If anything, LinuxToday provides a means by which some smaller Linux-related sites can get more traffic than they might have before we thoughtfully provided a link to their story along with a few paragraphs of "teaser" to get the reader's curiosity up.
If LinuxToday were following an "anti-other-Linux-sites" policy, it would soon dry up and blow away. The strength of the site is the near-constant flow of news from around (and outside) the Linux community.
Finally, (and because this is the part most people will feel the most comfortable ignoring, because I'm talking about my client):
Despite several months of working on LinuxToday, I have never felt particularly "watched over" by internet.com. The other editors on the site and its primary programmer are all Linux enthusiasts who are interested in providing a good service to the Linux community. I've never knowingly withheld a story for any reason other than the fact we've already covered it ad nauseum or that it should be submitted as a press release because it's nothing more than an attempt to sell something (including eyeballs).
When I first threw in my lot with LinuxToday and LinuxPlanet, I had some concerns about the nature of the entity that owned them. My own roots in Linux go back over four years, and I've been a UNIX enthusiast for more than twice that time. I've contributed documentation to a major open free software product under the copyleft. I love Linux, and I love the community surrounding it. I get up each day at 6 a.m. to start posting on LinuxToday, and my thoughts are not to how well the money's flowing that day, but how much information is being moved to readers. When I set fingers to keyboard for a story on LinuxPlanet, it isn't because I'm thrilled at the prospect of creating revenue, it's because I hope I can help people make decisions, or inform them in some way. The people I work with (who are in a more durable relationship with internet.com than I) have shown the same instincts and concern for the Linux community.
There may be a site worthy of paranoia and suspicion, but I don't think LinuxToday is it.
Though it should not require reiteration, I'll note once more that I don't speak for any of the entities mentioned in this post besides myself. I'm just a freelancer.
Kind regards,
Michael
------------
Michael Hall
Charlottesville, Virginia
No - you vote for the stories (Score:2)
All logged in users can look in the story queue, and vote if it should be posted or not.
It's working fairly well at the moment, although there is occasionally a shortage of discussion on stories.
You can also make editorial comments when you are voteing, which are separate to the "content comments"
journalistic integrity (Score:2)
that means that the editors at all times must be independent of management and business interests.
that i think is one of the most basic principle of any news media. at least it is in the printed news media.
i have no idea and don't really care whether or not LinuxLinks.com is newsworthy, but i am greatly disappointed to find anybody argueing that it is alright for a news media to be biased in its selection of news.
Re:Rejected story (Score:2)
Let's see - first Dan Rather. As I recall, it was Dan Rather that tried to jump on then candidate/VP George Bush. In the negotiations to get Bush to show up for the interview it had been agreed that Rather wouldn't cover questions about Bush's involvement, if any, in Iran/Contra. Well - Rather low-balled him. Gorge came right back with questions about why Rather had a hissy fit and caused several minutes of dead air time
Mr Rather is no Uncle Walter.
As for the prediliction of the US press to soft ball news about the Democratic party. Hmmm - first comes to mind them sitting on an interview of someone accusing the Pres of being a rapist. NBC sat on this interview for almost a YEAR, until way AFTER the impeachment hearings went away. Then they soft-peddled when they finally did air it. There are other examples...but there is no point in going there in this post.
I'd say the original poster has asked a reasonable question. Maybe linuxtoday needs to "review" their editorial policies or maybe I might have to go some place else...there is always lwn and freshmeat.
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:2)
Actually, that would probably describe nearly anything dealing with BSD quite well (assuming the site was not limited in scope to just Linux).
Yes, I agree that the method has less bias than Slashdot, but there is still a bias.
Discussion astray? (Score:1)
ooops, tons of publicity for Linux Links - ooops (Score:1)
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:2)
Uhm, no it doesn't. Censorship would have been if someone was taking away LinuxLinks' freedom to post something in their own site. The same freedom that Linuxtoday have to post whatever they want on their own site.
At best they are guilty of sloppy management.
How do you know what they are guilty of?
All you have is a very biased letter from someone who works at LinuxLinks, who may very well be just trying to get hits on his site.
Do you have any factual proof?
Do you know whether the link was actually posted in the first place in linuxtoday?
If it was posted, do you know when it was removed? (hint: may'be it was removed after it was no longer news as someone else pointed out).
You say
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:3)
No, it is not analgous because kuro5hin is a direct competitor of slashdot. Newspapers don't routinely publish product announcements of their competition, and everybody understands that. This is different, more like Slashdot favoring VALinux over it's competitors, something that would not be obvious to a reader.
This is about whether a media outlet has a hidden agenda. The whole point of news media (from the perspective of the reader) is to get at the truth. If an outlet is not up front about how they make "editorial" decisions, then they are guilty of not revealing the truth. The guy who started this question is interested in finding out the truth, and informing the rest of us about it.
I don't understand your complaint about that. Aren't you interested in knowing what biases infect the media you read? Isn't knowing which biases are there better than simply saying "everything's biased"?
The problem with this conspiracy thinking... (Score:4)
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:1)
not mentioning kuro5hin (Score:1)
My
Quux26
Re:right and wrong (Score:1)
It would be like Slashdot posting a story about Kuro5hin, and then pulling it because they didn't want to promote a competitor. Is/Should that be legally wrong, I don't think so. Morally wrong? Maybe, I don't know... Does that demonstrate much journalistic integrity? Hell no.
kuro5hin (Score:1)
My
Quux26
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:1)
Re:Not again (Score:1)
interesting thought... (Score:2)
kind of like the term "hacker" has become derogatory now-a-days. I now try to refrane from calling myself a hacker because people automatically assume "wow - you're some script kiddie who breaks into innocent people's computers." - I reply "no...you're thinking of a cracker" and the conversation deteriorates from there. The term has even made it into webster's dictionary. Something i'm not too happy about IMNSHO. Not that anyone who reads slashdot, or uses an OS coded by a European hacker should know or anything
As far as "news" sites are concerned. I'll say this. I was flamed greatly for my reply to the "oily penguin" story that was posted several days ago. My viewpoint wsa this - a site should stay focused and true to it's readership. That story, i felt, was not particularly well focused, at least in the slashdot sense. What does this have to do with sensoring stories on other sites? Simply this: Staying focused and true to your readership means not only refraining from posting stories that are "out of bounds" as far as the scope of your site, but additionally, posting stories that are in-bounds and timely.
Unfortunately for all of us, this usually means that the editors have to make a subjective judgement call in relation to what goes and what stays. In this case, however, i do think this was most likely just plain old sensorship. Let's get with the program kids. If you have a linux website dedicated to linux-based news - post linux based news - even if it's not in your interest. Or your readers will find someone else who will.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:4)
Four of our stories reference kuro5hin in April/May, including this one [slashdot.org] where I wrote: "I need to start reading kuro5hin more often."
I even bought myself a kuro5hin T-shirt [kuro5hin.org] for chrissakes. It's ReallyCool(tm) and ILikeItALot® and EveryoneShouldBuyOne(tm). Maybe if I get a kuro5hin tattoo on my ass, people will stop accusing Slashdot of bias. Maybe.
Jamie McCarthy
Re:Not again (Score:1)
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:1)
It'll never happen. Why?
Becouse Slashdot will (unavoidably) fail to mention tiny tucked away websites.
Why would Slashdot do that? Well a website on spore molds isn't in itself very intresting. A lot of web forums just arn't Slashdot matereal.
But Slashdot dose TRY to premote as many forums as posable. Check out the Slashboxes. Most of them are compeating web forums. All slapped on the main page of Slashdot for all to see.
Kuro5hin has been beating Slashdot to some stroys as of late so it's no supprise they get Slashdot mention.
Slashdot isn't (in my opinion) going to back away from anything or anyone just becouse it's a compeating website.
If Kuro5hin dreams up some amazing new technology then it will be Slashdotted. No doupt in my mind about that.
On the other hand Internet.com seems to be acting in bies against compeating websites.
Picture this announcment "Meow Pawjects will no longer announce anything connected with Slashdot, Andover, Internet.com, Microsoft or the New World Order as such premotion may confluct with personal busness intrests"... I'm thinking about posting this on MeowBBS under the "humor" section
Re:interesting thought... (Score:2)
You shouldn't be saying that.
You should be saying "no, you're thinking of a criminal. I am not a criminal, I am a hacker."
There was already a term for people who commit criminal acts, long before we invented our word "hacker". Do not allow people to link "hacker" and "criminal" by misusing another segment's term.
Criminals are criminals, period. They may or may not also happen to be hackers.
--
Slashdot does the same (Score:1)
Yeah, it pisses me off, and I wonder why I bother.
Dictionary Definition of Censorship (Score:1)
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-s&r-"ship
Function: noun
Date: circa 1591
1 a : the institution, system, or practice
of censoring
b : the actions or practices of
censors;especially : censorial
control exercised repressively
2 : the office, power, or term of a Roman censor
3 : exclusion from consciousness by the
psychic censor
oh puh-lease! (Score:3)
now look when the last calender service was announced. A whopping year ago. Just maybe it is true what they said and they dont consider these things to be news anymore? Now I dont want to sound like a troll or something, but lets just think about the possibility they are telling the truth... this whole thing sounds a little bit like YACT (yet another conspiracy theory), imho.
nc.
Re: responsible journalism (Score:1)
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:1)
--
Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org
Re:Offtopic ranting. (Score:2)
I say let them. They still don't influence how I use linux, what I write for linux, etc...
Re:The problem with this conspiracy thinking... (Score:1)
Re:important question (Score:1)
to slashdot,
who controls the linux media.
A Song, if you will. (Score:5)
As sung by Rob Malda, CmdrTaco, and Hemos:
o/~ Who controls the linux media
Who keeps BSD down
We do! We do.
Who keeps sensibility off the maps
Who keeps the Mach under wraps
We do! We do.
Who holds back the Metallica's Lars
Who makes Jon Katz a star?
We do! We do.
Who robs geeks of their sight?
Who rigs every Linux-media event?
WE DO! WE DOOO.
o/~
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:1)
It's nothing *new* (Score:3)
My point is, a new feature on a website is like a new variation on the cheeseburger. Great, now you can get barbecue sauce instead of ketchup. That's not going to catch my attention. And the job of a news source is to catch your attention long enough that your eyes go past the advertising.
I would have rejected an article about a feature addition to a website, too. Just as I don't pay much attention when a fast food restaurant adds another kind of sauce.
Re:What's the problem? Check the dates, people. (Score:1)
Re:ya (Score:1)
Simple answers to baited questions. (Score:4)
Well, the publisher determines the impartiality of the news they publish. And you determine the impartiality of the publishers you read. If you feel it's not impartial, find another news source.
See #1. There is no ombudsman for the media. If fact, if there was, we wouldn't appreciate it that much.
I wasn't aware that inernet.com and VA Linux had monopolies in the Linux media. In fact, I wasn't aware that they were the same company. Did I miss the news about how internet.com merged with VA Linux and bought every other Linux media site? Better call the Justice Department
Yes. No. Maybe. Recently, there seem to be cracks forming in the armor of Linux solidarity. Is this a bad thing? Not at all. The goal of "world domination" seems to be universally agreed upon, but at what cost? Let's face it, there is no world domination without big business - it can't be a grass roots movement forever. Bringing linux to the world also means bringing the world to linux, and all of the corporate feasability and profitability issues that come with it. Only know do you understand
Re:Discussion astray? An Interesing Question (Score:1)
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:1)
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:1)
Re:Rejected story (Score:3)
"Why is (sic) some people so god damn paranoid???"
Why are some people so god damn naive and trusting???
The media is biased, easily bought, and packed with propaganda and FUD, no matter what country you live in and no matter what socio-economic system you live under. You're daydreaming if you think otherwise.
Wake-up call (Score:1)
They control the United States government. This is why the US government is constantly borrowing money from the Federal Reserve, which is not Federal and has no Reserve. The `Fed' is a privately owned company, created by big-money familes, such as the Rothschilds, who have an incredibly evil and hidden past, present, and future.
They also control the Internal Revenue Service, which is also privately owned by the same families. The IRS was created (quite illegally, I might add, because the 16th Amendment was never *really* passed) to ensure the `Fed' a never ending supply of money to borrow to the US government.
They also control the media, to keep the general population from discovering my previous points. Yes, the Linux media too. Look at the bloodlines and other investments of the people at the very height of the companies who publish the Linux magazines and the large scale Linux related sites. They almost all interweave at some point.
For more in-depth reading on this and related subjects, check out the books of David Icke [davidicke.com] (excuse the crappy web site). And try to stay open minded.
--Drew Vogel
Re:Me again! (Score:1)
Re:Simple answers to baited questions. (Score:1)
How to choose your news (Score:1)
- Sites with no adverts beyond small bottom-of-page notices about donors of hosting and similar services
- Sites with only one banner advert per page
- Sites that sell all the advertising they can fit on the page
There can be a secondary ranking like:- Noncommercial sites
- Independent commercial sites
- Sites which are parts of conglomerates which keep advertising and editorial separate
- Sites part of conglomerates which blend advertising and editorial
SoThe tainting of editorial by advertising (including cross-promotional) purposes is part of the dreck that's coming down not just on the Net but in all the CBS news coverage of characters in Survivor. Hey, you don't need to be in the audience for that. Or you can be a sucker ... free world.
Re:You guys are missing the point (Score:4)
Ha! I got a huge kick out of you buying a shirt by the way. Thanks. And do you mind if I use this quote in our promotional literature? :-)
As for the topic at hand, a simple search for 'kuro5hin' in stories will indeed find that K5 has been slashdotted no less than 4 times so far. So much for "slashdot anti-competitive behavior". And I'd also like to go on record as saying that jamie rocks, and I still read /., and that There Is No Feud. So get over it already, people!
And, if by any odd chance you ever do catch me saying anything negative about /., it's just cause I'm a crotchety bastard.
--
I control it. (Score:1)
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:1)
hey! thats not off topic !!! (Score:1)
Re:I say "Welcome to the real world" (Score:2)
I would argue with this. Slashdot, and it's posters do not all have backgrounds of professional journalism. Sure they have a notable anti-MS bias, but that's appropriate considering they are, to a large extent, a Linux news source. But, I have yet to see ANY significant bias against any competitor of Andover/VA. And this is something people are accusing them of every week.
Slashdot has earned a well deserved reputation as a forum for distributing news & information that appeals to it's market segment. It generally does so quite well, with (in my opinion) surprisingly little bias and a surprisingly high degree of competence considering the editors backgrounds.
Of course, if you have an EXAMPLE of the incompetence of which you speak, feel free to post it. Just stop screaming incompetence without backing it up. (And I'm not willing to accept the fact that occasionally the same story get's reported more then once. That's not incompetence, it's busyness. Let's see you remember EVERY SINGLE article that slashdot has posted over the last six months).
It's worse in the print media (Score:2)
Re:why the fuck is parent modified as offtopic? (Score:1)
answer (Score:1)
Napster? Music? IP? Its called an online library, you looser - and its free! like all libraries
Re:whois is your friend (Score:1)
Normally a news outlet can be counted on to promote its own brand. It is fairly obvious to readers that Times will try not to plug Newsweek. They're expecting that, and it's pretty transparent. Parent/sister/parner company relationships are not, and this can be very deceiving. Why aren't there more stories about widget X? Well, I guess only 1 company makes them and I should buy from them
This is why modern media conglomerates are so dangerous. The age of the independant media outlet are gone. With all news and entertainment controlled by a handful of ulta rich, ultra conservative individuals, how accurate and unbiased is your news? Sure, you're getting all the news (sorta kinda). But you don't have time to analyze and verify every bit of it. There's a lot of very subtle spin on stories. Omission of details, emphasis on a certain aspect of the story, a slightly tweaked wording, it's the difference between, say, 'programmer' and 'hacker', 'european' and 'caucasian', 'well built' and 'large'. By reading a story, who are you to say there's no agenda at work.
So now we have lies, damned lies, statistics and news.
Documented plans (Score:1)
For instance, on June 2nd, I believe it was, the Bilderbergs (the select few at the top of the underground heirarchies controlling the world) met at a posh resort in, I believe it was Denmark. The meeting was, as all other Bilderberg meetings, very secretive discussions on basic strategies to gain more money and control. In essense, screwing over the general population of the world. Read the May or June issue of The Spotlight (a newspaper published by the Liberty Lobby) for an article detailing the meeting.
Also, in the 1950s, there was a Congressional investigation headed by Norman Dodd, into the tax-exempt foundations in America, like the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. The investigation found that the first World War was basically one of the best examples of global manipulation by big-money people to enlarge the debts owed to them, thus gaining power. This is done by lending money to fund the war, then lending money to rebuild the world, especially in the image of their choosing. The investigation also found that, in order to hide their direct manipulation they must control education of the country, Forever.
You probably never heard about that
These are small examples of the massive amount of underground global manipulation and deciet that is still going on today, and will go on in the future, as these people have, essentially, stated in public.
Re:(more) Offtopic ranting. (Score:1)
I ranted and raved about boardwatch when it happened, and am still doing so because I really liked what they had going. 'twas the owner/editor's right to sell; I hope he made a mint and has all he wishes, but I'll bet even he knows that internet.com killed a good thing.
not just print media (Score:1)
How many companies control "the media"? A close acquaintence of mine has a story she likes to relate about the media: Several years ago, she asked the head of Time Warner if it was true that 18 people controlled 90% of the western world's news outlets... She says he thought about it for about a second, and said it was more like 11.
Aww I'd feel for ya but I can't reach you (Score:1)
Why are you so antsy about some other Linux site denying you anyway. I thought the whole idea was to strike your own path. Strike one. Don't rely on someone if they cut you off. Go a different way, and don't whine.
Re:ADDENDUM (Score:1)
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:1)
Der! That's the idea of Kuro5hin! The stories that appear on the front page are what the audience is interested in seeing up there.
Re:Of course (Score:1)
RE: OPEN MEDIA implementatn;equality||transparency (Score:1)
A news site designed designed with these consideration would be able to guarantee integrity of its news, while at the same time allowing "journalists" to specialize in journalism--the assumption behind journalism seems to be that it's more economically efficient for one person to specialize in journalism while some other person specializes in shoe-making. Then the two trade goods. All I'm proposing is that the journalist prove the integrity and quality of his good by using an open process. A shoe's quality, on the other hand, is evident to anyone who looks at and touches it.
Re: OPEN MEDIA implementatn;equality||transparency (Score:1)
-You could bitchslap (bitchslap.com) editors who do a poor job. Or vote a bonus to editor's who do a good job (although this may lead to bonus-whoring.)
-The HR process could be slightly opened to allow readers to nominate and vote for candidates for certain editorial positions.
-Of course, you can combine the above with moderation by regular users.
-At first, immature regular users may abuse their new powers by squabbling, insulting the editors, forming cliques, whoring bonuses, etc. In the long run, however, however, transparency will increase the value of the news because it allows the reader to assess the validity of what he/she is reading.
Re: OPEN MEDIA implementatn;equality||transparency (Score:1)
If anyone wants to start a discussion on designing and implementing an inherently trustworthy news site--or else simply designing a set of standards for newsworthiness--e-mail me at pofu@gmx.de
Re:No - you vote for the stories (Score:2)
This is exactly what Kuro5hin is trying to avoid. Rather than having stories posted that concern only a minority of the viewers, the stories that get posted have general interest towards everyone. Remember, this is the point of having a general web site.
But this is not to say that Kuro5hin will not have those stories; in fact, one of the plans for Kuro5hin will be to have sections for different classes of users, so that stories that are very specific to the group are only seen by those members, but more general stories will be seen by all.
It's pretty obvious who controls the Linux media (Score:2)