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Broadband Net Access Down Under? 22

Posted by Cliff from the faster-than-a-speeding-modem dept.
munchkin_tr asks: "With the introduction yesterday of ADSL into Australia, at 64kB/sec (carefully phrased as 512 kbps/sec) load rate on the unlimited plan for close to $50 U.S. ($89 Australian including goods and services tax) per month, does this compare with other countries' DSL services? A 1.5mbps option is availible but limited to 500mb's data download per month. The information is available here and please have a look at the "Acceptable Use" Policy, if you can find it on the site. I found it to be hidden on the Telstra Big Pond Advance Web site. No starting up a Quake listen server - your service will be suspended till the end of your contract!" Are there any readers from Australia who have comments and concerns on this? Please share them here.

"From what I've heard about DSL overseas what we are being offered here in Australia sounds like a pittance. But am I kidding myself - it will kick hell out of my 56k modem! The other broadband option availible is Optus@Home cable at 100k/sec download for around $38US or $60 Australian per month. Unfortunately it is limited to the limited roll-out of Optus Cable in Australia. What does /. think?"
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Broadband Net Access Down Under? More

Broadband Net Access Down Under?

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  • but I was very suprised to know that the pricing was a flat rate price independant of usage, plus there seemed to be no restriction on running a network, or any servers off that network.

    This is only true because Optus started beating the hell out of Telstra's cable modem service towards the beginning of this year. Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon for one of my friends to exceed his monthly download "cap" (a paltry 300 MB/month) and pay 0.25/MB thereafter, or some utterly disgusting rate. Once Optus came in with unmetered, unlimited access at similar speeds, a lot of people jumped ship to them, and Telstra had to change their pricing schemes for high-speed access simply to remain competitive (IMO their prices are still too high, but what do I know...)

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • for ADSL to get rolled to more than a few 'trial' exhanges in London.

    By the time BT get around to it (they are rumoured to be dragging their feet so they can still get all the ISDN type installations done - more money) we'll have UTMS so everyone will be wireless and BT won't be able to sell the darn thing.
  • In Perth there is a wireless network option called "CitySpan [iinet.net.au]". It works in an 8km radius from a couple of the buildings in the, rather small, CBD. (My home falls within the footprint!) We are almost next door to one of the buildings (but far enough away and tall enough to still be able to use it). For an about 768kb/s symmetrical link with no service restrictions and 3 static IP addresses it will cost A$325 per month (for 500MB, extra traffic at A$0.17/MB) but the installation was originally quoted at A$5,691. about A$3,000 of that was because we're more than 100m from the roof, as the cable crawls, and would need to use a fibre link from antenna to hub. We got the install cost down to by using UTP and a repeater/hub to around A$2,500.

    We did not go with this option, I'm getting more quotes in over the next few weeks...

  • Once again our neighbour accross the pond has it better than New Zealanders. We have ADSL, and have had it awhile, but we don't have flat rate (ok, so there is currently a 3month eval of FastADSL which is unlimited during the 3 months). The best you can get is (iirc) 4gig at something like NZ$600/month. (After that its pay-per-meg). the usual account is $100 for a 500meg cap. However we do have Satilite (with modem uplink), however that goes to the crapper when it rains.

    ---

  • Big Pond Cable and various satellite services are an option.

    See http://www.whirlpool.net.au

    Optus@Home is uncapped, by the way, and delivers up to 300KB/sec when a file is in the local cache.

    Tom
  • Telstra and Optus don't ban networks on their cable services. They don't offer technical support, and they only give you one IP (not static), but running a network connected to O@H is fine, and I believe Telstra at worst charges an extra AUD10/month for extra machines -- I don't know if that gets you another IP or not.

    Why do you say ADSL won't be good for Unix users? I agree that it probably won't be a 'business grade' service for businesses which have a 'real' internet component.

    Tom
  • I have optus@home. It isn't capped in bandwidth, and I run a network.

    When you say 'capped' are you thinking of the acceptable use policy which seems in practice to limit you to 3.5GB of traffic per week?

    It comes with 50MB of web space where you can put files for people to download. This is limited to 300MB/month data transfer to clients. (actually it's 5 x 10MB web sites with 300MB transfer each, so perhaps you could get away with 1500MB/month)

    Why do you want to run your own FTP server?

    Tom
  • On O@H I use a P100 which boots the floppyfw Linux distribution (www.zelow.no) from a floppy.

    That works out cheaper than the cheapest router, especially if you have some old hardware lying around.

    You can also load masquerading modules for IRC, games etc -- I don't know if commercial routers cater for them.

    Tom
  • Telstra's AUP (http://www.telstra.com.au/adsl/docs/policy.pdf) is pretty vague on this point -- it implies that you can attach a LAN if you are paying for extra users (you can have up to 3 total on the flat-rate plans), but it doesn't say in technical terms what rights buying another user gives you...

    Tom
  • Why have your own FTP server to serve files? There are other places with better bandwidth where you can put them. Even if cable/DSL allowed servers the upstream bandwidth is quite low -- especially compared with the bandwidth between the ISP's servers and the rest of the Internet.

    Yes, you'd lose the dynamic content of your web site. I don't think the loss of your 'f*** off' cgi would detract from it.

    Tom
  • That User policy is just a little bit intimidating!
    Clause 5.7 "You must not use automated programs to continually send or receive high volumes of data via the Service." Well this clause nicely prohibits the use of programs like Gnutella, Napster, and their clones; along with just about every other distributed client software.
    Clause 5.3 "You must not permit any person, other than adult members of your household or others with your express permission and under your personal supervision, to use the Service." While I don't really take offense to laying it out this plainly; but honestly how many of us allow absolutely anyone to walk into our house (remeber this a home based service only) and use our computers?
    Clause 5.5 "<snip>...[You] must not in any circumstances connect servers which transmit data to the internet or cable network, such as ftp servers and chat servers." I am just curious as to how far they can/will carry this. Will they include samba/"network neighborhood" servers in this category? And what about functionalities such as W2K's time server?

    Just a few of my thoughts. However if this is all that is offered, then those regulations can and should probably be over looked. I recently made the move from 26.4k modem to cable, and have loved it.

  • I guess you havent used either of those services.
    Satellite is provided by an american group called DirecPC. (I have worked at a company that somehow, although being in the CBD were convinced to use Satellite) The downstream connection is fast, but upstream is only over a modem. Downstream speeds are capped after the first three months. Just go on the DirecPC newsgroup and ask if anyone there would recommend the service. Its an absolute Joke.

    Sure cable is an option, unless you actually want to USE the internet. As a self proclaimed geek, I love the idea of fast bandwidth, but Im stuck using 56k permanent modem connection because it offers me static IP and no stupid restrictions to running servers or having a network.

    If i lied to optus or telstra and said "Ya, I want fast cable to look at porn and play quake" then they would give it to me.. but if i said "Hi, im a software developer and i need to run an ftp site so customers can get stuff from me" they would tell me to fuck off - regardless of the fact that the software is GPL, and im not making any profit.
    They still consider it a business use - fuck them.

    PS: Whoever told you optus@home was uncapped was smoking far too much crack.
  • why do i want to run my own ftp server --
    to serve files funnily enough.

    go to my web page (http://www.i2pi.com/)
    i do lots of stuff that I wouldnt be able to do legally with a cable connection.

    sure, there is nothing stopping me from doing it anyway, but i prefer to take my business elsewhere.
  • tell me about low bandwidth.. im running that off
    a 56k modem. but its good for when i have a small
    source file that i change, and I want ppl to be
    able to access it for updates.
    for my larger material, i have a mirror in the states.

    if you dont like my cgi script, then f*** off :)
  • At my current job I'm involved in setting up a high-speed network for transferring near broadcast quality film footage between editing houses in Melbourne.
    As you may imagine, when rumours of ADSL started in june, I was straight on the phone to Telstra. They assured me that our company was a prime subject for their trial service, and after a few more phone calls, we were scheduled to have ADSL installed within the next few days.
    The deal for the trial service would be $170 initial cost, and $160 per month, for 1.5mbit downstream, and 256k up. Knowing how Telstra and Optus both have VERY restrictive AUP's for their cable services (basically banning networks or anything useful) and not allocating static IP's - i asked about the AUP for ADSL. Not to my suprise, no static IP's were available, but I was very suprised to know that the pricing was a flat rate price independant of usage, plus there seemed to be no restriction on running a network, or any servers off that network. I was very impressed. Not wanting to be 'sucked in' by a sales woman who told me all these wonderful things, I asked her if she knew whether that AUP was going to change after the trial period. She said 'No, but their may be some restructuring of the price', going on to tell me that it would most likely be cheaper as more people take it up.
    Well. It has been over 2 months since our company was supposed to receive our ADSL trial service, and now the trial is over. After calling Telstra back for about the 30th time (i keep a log of all my calls) I found out that we were able to get ADSL now on a non-trial basis now that the 'technology was finalised' - quite excited I gave my details (for the 30th time), and was about to sign up when i quickly asked "So, is it still $160 per month"
    The response from the sales guy was "No, its much cheaper now, $115" - that was fine by me, but I asked about any other changes.. thats when I lost my cool.. Basically Telstra have moved towards the same AUP as for Cable, absolutely restricting usage of the services to no servers, minimal network etc...
    Anyway, to cut a long story short, we now have a microwave network planned, for a few thousand dollars we get 10Mb/s connection, with no AUP and no usage cost. Its faster, but perhaps more expensive, but I can't stand companies fucking around and assuming what you should be doing with networking services.
    In short, ADSL will probably be fine for windows users at home (not so good for us UNIX geeks), and for small businesses. Medium to large businesses are best to go for fibre (which is becoming a great deal cheaper around the cities), or dare i say it -- ISDN.

    Once again, Australian telco's have shown that they have no desire to make life easier for us.
    (For those who dont know, Telstra's slogan is "Making Life Easier")
  • Telstra say you can't have a network attached with the non-volume charged plans. You could break the agreement with a firewall.
  • Well to give you some perspective on the states. Most CLEC's are scrambling to gather subscribers and you can pretty do whatever your ISP allows you to. I know that most the really hungry ISP's (Flashcom, etc) don't have the resources to enforce the AUP's. Most CLECS take the attitude of "you paid for it, use the hell out of it"...however...as I stated before...it is usually ISP dependant. Now the ILECS have a different perspective...they are focussing on subscribers and ae massively over subscribing their network to turn a profit. Prices for SDSL range from $40/mo U.S. for 416k to 300/mo for 1.536. So...to sum it up, the market is ranging and not too many companies are being too particular about subscribers activities unless there are complaints or the subscriber is managing to gobble up all thr transport(which shouldn't happen in a properly design network). ./bot
  • Maybe you would like a little comment on the service level of O@H while I'm at it..

    The reliability of the service is very patchy .. sometimes we'll get unannounced outages for over 30mins during peak hours or during early mornings.

    However, most of the time it's fine. Any sites in Australia, you'll probably get around the max speed download.

    All important mirror.aarnet.edu.au is actually located on the optus network. I've been downloading ISOs of Redhat and game patches at 380KBytes/sec - pretty impressive.

    Accessing US sites is around 20KB/sec average, really depends on the time tho. sometimes it's a bit faster depending on whether it is in proxy (although i hardly use it).

    If you are planning to use it on linux or any other *BSD or *nix variants, O@H is the best option since they just require a normal DHCP request packet to activate and allocate an IP. BigPond Cable requires you to use their propieraty login program which is only avaiable for Win95/98 (not even Win2K). Someone ported it over the Linux tho, but I'm not sure of the status.

    Hope this stuff helps you choose. And fingers cross you have Optus Cable in your area!
  • Numbers for Cable and ADSL to clear things up.

    Optus@Home [optushome.com.au]
    D/L: 3Mbit/s U/L :128kbit/s
    Price: $74.95/mth or $63.95/mth (No Contract)

    Telstra BigPond Advance [bigpond.com]
    D/L: 256kbit/s U/L: 64kbit/s
    Price : $67.00
    D/L: 512kbit/s U/L: 128kbit/s
    Price: $72.00

    Telstra ADSL [bigpond.com]
    D/L: 256kbit/s U/L: 64kbit/s
    Price : $78.00
    D/L: 512kbit/s U/L: 128kbit/s
    Price: $89.00
    (Forces u to use their line for voice/analog line as well .. or else u pay an extra $14/mth)

    All these prices are in $AU.

    I'm a user of Optus@Home, and from those stats, seems like in terms of bandwidth Optus@Home wins by miles. And trust me, with the BigPond Advance login procedures being a hassle under linux, I'd rather stick with Optus@Home which uses plain old DHCP :)

    Plus in the AUP Statement for Optus@Home, it doesn't support the use of a home network, but it's not forbidden. That is a big big plus, what is the point of cable if u can share :) hehe.

    Moreover, the more disturbing fact with the ADSL rollout is that the fact that Telstra is charging their competitors $61/mth for access to one line, making it impossible to competition to have any affect on the pricing.

  • Interestingly enough, the bit you snipped from Clause 5.5 is what would probably piss off most users:

    Clause 5.5: Subject to clause 5.6, you must not connect another network, such as a local area network, to the Service or allow multiple simultaneous users of the Service. You may connect only one computer to the Service at any one time etc. etc.

    So you're not allowed to run ipmasq or any similar programs (i.e. SyGate if you're running Win9x/NT); you have to pay an extra $11 per month per additional IP address. And you can only get 2 additional IP addresses if you take a residential plan; residential+business plans have a limit of 7 additional users, but they have a transfer limit of 250mb or 500mb (depending on plan), after which you have to pay 18.9 cents per megabyte (until you hit 5gb, after which it drops to 17.5 cents per megabyte).

    Though I don't know how they would seriously intend on enforcing that...



    -- Sig (120 chars) --
    Your friendly neighborhood mIRC scripter.

  • This is very true.

    Though knowing them, they'd probably both refuse to let you use the router AND refuse to take responsibility for any attacks.
    Or they'd just revoke your account for disobeying their terms of service.

    Again, as you said, this is very unlikely. Right now, I do something similar with a dialup account, though I use SyGate [sygate.com] to act as the NAT/firewall rather than a hardware NAT/firewall.



    -- Sig (120 chars) --
    Your friendly neighborhood mIRC scripter.
  • Quite frankly, I'd ignore this part of the policy. The first thing I'd do after signing up with this service is install an inexpensive router (Linksys [linksys.com] makes one that looks good) and set its firewall functions to exclude all connections originated from the outside. This is for your own protection (my router detects several 'port scans' a day - people looking for a vulnerable machine), but it also permits you to hook up any number of computers to their service indetectably. The router looks like the computer to them, and it will act as the proxy for all of the machines you hook up to it. If they give you any attitude about using a router (short of coming out and looking, they shouldn't be able to tell it's there), tell them you're protecting yourself with a hardware firewall and that if forced to directly connect your computer, you'll hold them responsible for the consequences of any outside attack on it.

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