Broadband In Rural Areas? 32
MStirling asks: "OK, here's the deal. I live in the middle of nowhere. DSL is out of the question because the CO is like 27k feet away from my house. Cable is out of the question because the cable company would make me pay to run the line half a mile over the highway and after I paid this inital cost, they'd proceed to let my neighbors steal my bandwidth without having to pay the same gigantic fees. We're talking several thousand dollars just to get the line, not including the all important arm and a leg for the installation fees, monthly service, or what the one local ISP (who currently holds a monopoly on the cable modem market) charges. Right now I'm stuck on a 56k dialup, which has never seen a connection rake higher than 28.8k. What I want to know is if there is some other option I haven't looked at (Besides DirecPC because that's one way service and they charge by the hour) or something in the pipeline that will solve my problem. Any info you could come up with would be appreciated."
Re:buy the new cable? (Score:1)
Then I decided to get natural gas. They charged me to lay the pipe and guess what, two years later they decided to tear it all up and lay pipe all the way down the road. At least the gas company agreed to dig a line out to the garage and put a meter out there for free. (even though they did cut the phone line. -- which reminds me, fifteen or twenty years ago the phone company asked if we wanted to go from a party line to private lines. Everyone on the party line said no, but the phone campany switched anyway and raised our rates.OF course the remenants of that party line are why I am lucky to get above a 28.8 connection.)
So although I wouldn't move to town for anything, they will always find a way to screw you out here.
A rural sysadmin speaks out (Score:2)
We work with 2 local/small telcos and 2 larger ones (corporate conglomerate types). The local ones are pretty hip with maintaining a QOS and are self proclaimed "fast followers". I think our biggest mistake (the ISP) was when we jumped on the v90 bandwagon too soon. It has been my experience that
1. Internal Modems are pretty much shitty across the board... granted some companies (3com/USR and Supra to name a couple) are pretty good at keeping their modem firm/software up to snuff.
2. RAS server companies are pretty hesitant about "upgrading" their TAOS/COMOS to keep up with "new"/"cheap" industry standard modems that keep coming out on these machines that you can get for free, etc...
3. You might buy an expensive machine, but nine times out of ten the modem might be a $10 POS..
( My analogy to the less savvy customers is What Kind of Tires did you buy on your car?..... Look at the recent recall of the tires on your expensive Ford Explorer for further insight)
Granted the average or even = average
4. Wireless/satellite might be an option for some, but I know my DSS goes out in bad weather occasionally, but do I call DirectTV???? nope... I just know it's the weather and do something else. Most of our customers are immediately on the phone to our help desk during a friggin hurricane wondering why their connection is crappy/cut short... and then that's after the phone lines are finally restored !!!!
and I guess my point is "yes" dialup is going the way of the 8-track/BetaMax/and regular gas, but there are still going to be areas that will ONLY be able to do dialup, and even with the best equipment (on both the user and ISP end) will get less than optimum connection/throughput speeds due to phone companies. Most telcos will only "guarantee"(and I say that loosely) a 9600 connection.. Hell with that sort of guarantee here's a suggestion for those with REALLY Bad service...
get a buddy with a fat connection ISDN/DSL/etc...
setup a couple old supra 33.6 modems on serial ports and run pppd (you can even tweak W98SE to do the same thing).
56K can't work without digital RAS, but a 33.6 to 33.6 connection is pretty solid, and the throughput is much better than a shitty 56K connection.
Eventually the telco's are going to catch up with their empty promises, but please remember there are some unscrupulous (sp?) ISP's out there, but a LOT of us are out there trying to help.. but our hands are tied by the telcos, as they always have been.
Standard troubleshooting procedures have found that the "problems" with most internet connections have to do with the medium that they are running through. Telco's hardly ever setup their network considering that connection times would be greater than the average phone call (~5-10 minutes) and in some locations we still have customers with party lines... try that one on for size!!!
Well I'm just letting off steam, but thanks guys.. after hearing these posts, I'm glad to hear that not EVERYONE thinks that It's always the ISP's fault
BTW I've also noticed that the customers who lose $40K on the stock market after AOL/IM's server crashed or a backbone provider had a fibre cut are also those who have problems paying $19.95 a month
Thanks for listening
Re:In the meantime... (Score:1)
Youch. Back home in Nowheresville, OR, no ISDN or DSL or Cable either (and the local telco, with a monopoly on ISP services (unless you want to dial long-distance), charges $40/month for 300 minutes of a 33.6 line!). However, in Baltimore (hardly the most tech-friendly of cities, mind you), you can get a 1.5 Mbit DSL line with 8 IPs for $110. Moral of the story: you want bandwidth, live in the middle of a large city. Otherwise, forget it.
Looked into wireless? (Score:1)
From what I understand you DO require an antenna and receiver ( for under $1000 I believe ) but the monthly fees aren't too outrageous.
Please keep in mind that I DON'T have the service and so can't give any actual experience
Modem Up/Satalite Down (Score:2)
And the down stream rate is supposed to be good as well.
Perhaps an extreme solution (Score:1)
Get a social life... (Score:1)
That way, you show the cable company that there's plenty of interest to have the access in your area and maybe they'll end up installing it themselves, or at least come down on the price. That way, everyone wins!
----
Lyell E. Haynes
how creative do you want to get? (Score:3)
if you can get creative and use some solutions
to your benefit you might have a chance. Most
of these ideas are off the top of my head but
a lot of them depend on how big your pocketbooks
are. If you don't mind spending the money then
it is possible. whether it's worth it is
another story completely.
1.) wireless. I'm talking some sort of line
of sight. microwave will cost a couple grand
but sometimes you can lease it. It's a line
of sight deal so you might need a tower.
2.) have friends in town? You could piggyback
on their cheap broadband line by installing
a NAT box (linux of course) and sharing the
cable/dsl line. Once you have the IP access
get a 56kb or t1 line from your friend's home
to yours. A point to point 1.5mbit line in
the same LATA usually costs about $200 a month
plus $10 - $20 per mile. throw in a pair of
used cisco 2501's from ebay and you have your
own WAN for about $1500. It's expensive but
it will sure look good on a resume.
3.) Use a point-to-point DSL line and combine it
with #2. Here in uswest land you can get a
DSL line from point to point. Make one end
your house and the other end your IP service
and you might be in business. On the other
hand I think this stuff goes through the
CO too so distance might still be a concertn.
on the plus side it's 1/4 the cost of a t1.
bottom line is that this stuff tends to be
expensive. Living in the country has its
rewards sometime but being on the technological
bleeding edge ain't one of them. Do you have
anyone nearby who could help shoulder the
cost? one you've got a connection out in the
sticks I'm sure you will be the envy of your
neighbors (at least until the cable company
strings line anyhow and then you're the proud
owner of a white elephant WAN.)
good luck.
--chuck
Re:Get a social life... (Score:1)
Getting back on topic, I don't suppose your telco will put a CO out near your place (If it's Bell Atl^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HVerizon, you might be able to get one depending on your skills at bitching.)
Someone mentioned satellite -- if I'm not mistaken, aren't one of those mini-dish companies (DirecTV, Dish Network, or whoever) starting to offer access?
Frame relay? (Score:2)
-russ
DSL isn't *totally* out of the question.. (Score:2)
If all you're looking for is low pingage, with a bit (hey, it's a few steps up from 56k) of a bandwidth increase, you might want to look at iDSL as an option. My access runs at about $69/mo.. price may vary in your area.
And as others have already commented, you could go with wireless as an option. Find someone close by who wants high speed net access as well, and split it with them. I've always discussed doing such things with friends, but so far it hasn't really panned out. (First problem being that I'm surrounded by hills on all sides, and most of my friends are on the *other* sides of those hills.. no line of sight)
If you get enough friends in on it, you could even splurge for a T1 or higher..
Good Old ISDN (Score:3)
Yes, ISDN is old technology and not all that fast (only 128kbps raw and I generally get 170 kbps compressed) but it's better than 28.8kbps. I get ISDN for $59 a month. Add to that a 3Com OfficeConnect ISDN router with built in four-port hub, NAT and a bunch of other nifty features for $300 (or close) and you've got a nice setup.
In my area I get a 200 channel hours of use a month for the base rate and a penny a minute per channel above that. In the two years I've had ISDN, I've never used more than 200 channel hours. (If I ever spend more than 200 hours online a month from home, I've got bigger problems than a per-minute charge; I've got a lack of life problem.)
I've looked into DSL but since I'm 20,540 feet from the CO, I'm limited to 144 kbps. For comparable cost at the number of hours I use, it just ain't worth the hassel of changing the server over.
Have you looked into ISDN?
InitZero
Hurry up and wait. (Score:2)
I'm trying to start a wireless ISP (Score:3)
Interestinly enough, just this week I've conceived the idea of starting a wireless ISP in my town. Even though I'm Add to the above: within a few mile radius is farm country, but with many lakes that "rich" folks live on. I'm thinking put a radio on some poor farmers Silo, in exchange for his internet access, and sell to the city folks so they have a the ability to work from home.
I'm still in the early stages, but it looks like the above plan is workable. (Anyone know a good upstream ISP for me work from? I've already found a buisness T1 customer and I'm not up yet)
I almost forgot COBRA/MULTILINK (Score:2)
They are also SNMP Based with a built in web interface so you can truly use them cross-platform-wise
But that only really helps if the price of the second/third phone line will pay off, but hey!!! It's an option!
Re:Modem Up/Satalite Down (Score:1)
Direct PC appearently has both up and downstream now. Worth checking out.
Re:Wireless (Score:3)
gilat is gilat.com [gilat.com]
and isky is isky.net [isky.net].
I hope these are what the orig. poster inteded, but to help you out here I can tell you that isky is has no price on the site stating, "Exact pricing will be finalized nearer to our late 2001 service launch," but they have all sorts of neat info on their satilite locations in the sky so you'll know where to aim your playstation missle [slashdot.org] if you are upset at the service.
Gilat didn't jump up and hit me in the face with pricing or any ordering informaion for that matter, but I'm probably just not clicking on the right silly-sounding-word-that-sounds-like-every-other-
Consider IDSL (Score:2)
You can check out http://www.dslreports.com to see whether idsl is available in your area.
rural + cheap telcos = no bandwidth (Score:1)
Last December: phone connection fizzles out when it rains - no connection for a week at one point. This happens at least 4 times. BS "fixes" the problem each time, but it keeps coming back.
January: After many complaints on my part, and some phone calls to the Public Service Commission, BS informs me that the aerial line servicing my area is faulty, and they run a temporary line (looks like regular cat 5 to me) over the ground. It's ugly, but problem solved...for awhile.
This summer: Connection begins to go out during rainstorms again. I experience more outages, and each time BS claims to have "fixed" the problem. Finally, they bury a new line from the road to my house, and I haven't had any more outages. However, my line is constantly noisy, and my connections are still low, especially after it rains.
I am of the opinion that BS could fix this problem correctly, but is unwilling to spend the money. It really makes one wonder why this is so, when they have a complete monopoly on local phone service in this area, and every single person pays them $20-$30 a month.
So, when people talk about broadband, I sit here sulking at my 2.8K (on a good day) downstream throughput, wondering when it will go out again, and counting the days until I can move.
Wireless (Score:2)
iSky has something, I'm not sure where it is though.
Microwave can be cheap once you have it set up, I know people in towns that are getting it because the telco won't give them DSL yet. It's point-to-point and line of sight so it has limits. In some rural areas this seems like it should be a great potential business. Collectively buy a T1, hook it to the local school and then do point-to-point microwave.
Re:Get a social life... (Score:1)
In the meantime... (Score:3)
Apart from this rant, in the meantime I think you should take a look at how to improve your modem connection. I have a 56k PCI card that never gave me more than 14.4k. Theres no ISDN where I live and DSL is US$150,00/mo (not guaranteed to work above 64k!). No cable either (half a mile away). I can't afford a direct connection for home use.
So I bought an external USR and I could get 28,8k. I then replaced some 100ft of old wiring by a new twisted pair (which I overtwisted mysef) and went after what was going on. I had to replace my voltage stabilizer (you know, those switched bastards) and I could get 33,6k during the night and anything between 40 and 49k during the day. Odd, isn't it? It turned out that the dimer I have in my room (which probably works by generating a square PWM) was injecting a hell of a noise in the electrical circuit of the entire house. Turn the damn thing off and the connection gets clean. Unplugging the phone from the line when you connect is also reported to work in some cases. I saw a page about modem fine tuning a couple of months ago, I think it was 4 or 5 links away from the modem How-to, but I can't find the link now.
Good luck.
Broadband satellite access is coming...someday. (Score:1)
Re:how creative do you want to get? (Score:3)
Wireless can be done cheaply too. Here's a low cost wireless network howto [gbonline.com] someone did after a slashdot article on the subject a few moons ago. In my experience, microwave networks work and are cheap too.
It's in the works (Score:2)
On a side note, lately I've seen a lot of modems fried by electrical storms; I would sure hate to see what would happen to your computer if you had one of these things plugged into it.
http://www.dmagazine.com/magazine/bd feature.html [dmagazine.com]
Multilink PPP (Score:1)
When moving from that somewhat-industrious area to a 2-acre plot in the middle of a corn field, I asked the new phone company for ISDN, and they laughed at me. I then asked for four POTS lines, and they scratched their heads, referred to their books (yes, real dead trees), referred to eachother, and decided that it was possible.
Using MLPPP and three 28.8 modems (along with three of those POTS lines and three dialins at my ISP), I'm able to pull down ~6.5-7k/second. It's not awesomely fast, or cheap, but it works.
Any ISP which can provide 128k or 112k ISDN access (which most 56k providers can, whether they admit it or not) supports MLPPP.
Software for the other end of the wire(s) is readily available. Windows 98 does it out-of-box, it is integral to the 2.4 Linux kernel, and it is also available in FreeBSD's userland PPP driver.
Myself, I'm using mpd (from the ports collection) in conjunction with natd under FreeBSD. This allows me to have one always-on link, while the other two dial on demand in response to bandwidth requirements. AFAIK, this is the only freely-available way to accomplish the dial-on-demand bit.
When it works (which it usually does, but nowhere near as consistantly as ISDN with a dedicated router), it works well.
Additionally, in some areas, one-way cable modem access is available cheap, over microwave cable networks such as WatchTV. One such provider, at http://www.im3.com, offers 128-768Kbps downstreams for $40-70/month - including the equipment. (and, in checking this, it seems that they've just crept a little closer to serving my area - not that I'm holding my breathe.)
There remain unanswered issues about such services, in that they only claim to support Windows 9x and MacOS, and details of the actual hardware and protocols used are lacking (at best).
Yet-another alternative: a friend of mine at my ISP (you didn't think I *paid* for those three logins, did you?) has just completed training on Breezecom's 802.11 wireless ethernet stuffs. According to him, speeds of 3Mbps are possible at distances of up to 25 miles, given the right antennae and a line-of-sight.
Find a *nix-using friend with cable in the nearest city, and offer to pay part of the cable bill in exchange for a tower in his back yard (or a pole on the house) and a chunk of his (or hers! the mind boggles) bandwidth, and you're all set.
Or, haggle with a small, local ISP over pricing for such a service. You'd be amazed at how the little jobs operate, if you've never had a peek inside. They've got the bandwidth, and they're flexible enough to let things like this happen without huge amounts of money changing hands.
There's plenty of options for consumer-grade bandwidth in rural areas, it's just that most of them are neither cheap, nor easy.
[ In a somewhat-offtopic note, I was once involved in a project to share a T1 with a tiny ISP down the block from where I was working at the time. It involved asking the landowners in between for permission to string a wire, drilling a couple of holes in some masonry, and hanging Cat5 above a parking lot. It worked well, and was highly cost-effective ($20 in networking stuff, plus $40/mo) until (sadly) a lightning hit destroyed both the remote ISP, most of another ISP which had since moved into our building (which we were also leeching from), a good portion of a high-end audio shop (us), while the MOVs inside the APC Surgearrests at either end of the wire simply exploded. Needless to say, that link isn't in operation anymore, but it was fun while it lasted (note to self: next time, bury the cable). ]
Ditto on the wireless (Score:1)
I work for an ISP the serves rural areas almost excusively. We offer DSL in cities and wireless for everyone else. The good news is that we're in a valley so our three towers cover most of the area. The monthly fees are comparable to DSL but the installation fees can be a bit higher.
Check out our site http://www.amigo.net/ [amigo.net] for an idea what prices you can expect.
PerlStalkerBonded lines? Microwave links? (Score:2)
Locally, we have a wireless (microwave IIRC) internet provider called XSpeed. They have an antenna up at a (lit at night) ski resort that overlooks the valley. They say "If you can see the lights at Bogus Basin, you can get XSpeed." I don't know if that is really the case, but I've considered trying. (I live approximately 50 miles from the antenna, but I can see the lights quite well).
Hope this helps
buy the new cable? (Score:2)
A second possibility might be to get permission to put 'your' cable modem right on the existing line, and get something like an air-port to beam the link across the road (personal wireless).
Convince your ISP to go wireless (Score:1)
Re:Wireless (Score:1)
Talk to people besides us (Score:1)
-Josh