Prior Art to Squash Database Patent? 142
Marianne Winslett asks: "I'm looking for prior art to help squash a US patent that I think
should never have been granted. In particular, I am looking for
applications with a relational database back end, X-windows user
interface, and application code somewhere in between. Think of it
as an example of a 3-tier architecture, with a very thin client and
a remote relational database back end. The application must have
been released by the end of 1991." The patent in question was not revealed by the submittor on advice from legal counsel. Anyone know of any application that might satisfy these requirements?
"For any such application, I need to know
- Its name,
- Where or by whom it was created,
- A brief description of its functionality,
- Its release date in the US (pre-1992),
- Ideally a pointer to one or more pieces of evidence documenting the three previous points, such as a manual, release notes, internal or external mail, press releases, etc. (either electronic or on paper), and
- Contact information for a person or persons who would be willing to swear under oath that the software had been released by the given date and that the evidence documenting its existence (if any) is what it appears to be.
The lawyers have asked me not to say which patent this lawsuit is about, but by the nature of the prior art that I'm looking for you can tell that it affects just about everyone and really should not have been granted. I figure that there must have been hundreds of such systems out there in 1991; because time is very short, I hope that the community can help me find them.
Marianne Winslett
Professor, Computer Science, University of Illinois at U-C
http://drl.cs.uiuc.edu"
Compuserve (Score:1)
Of particular interest would be the "forms" API (cannot remember the real name) that was used to dynamically create a search interface for the magazine databases, stock quotes, weather and other areas of the service [They even put together a rudamentary Web Browser using this technology in 1994-1995].
With this API, Compuserve could define basic query and results display interfaces on the server and any improvements would immediately be available when interpreted by the client software.
Almost the entire back end of the service was based on relational database technology.
I was only there 1993-1996, but I believe the dos and mac versions date from the mid to late 1980s.
Apple front-end software (Score:1)
Sorry I can't recall the name of the program, but if anyone used it to talk to an existing program that used a RDBMS, it would meet your requirements.
Hope this helps!
some nefarious motives for you (Score:1)
That's why applicants have a strong incentive to perform prior art searches and cite prior art.
Published paper (Score:1)
A visual interface for a database with version management
by Jay W. Davison and Stanley B. Zdonik
It was published in ACM Transactions on Information Systems Volume 4, Issue 3 (1986). Pages 226-256
CSU VIKING System may comprise prior art (Score:1)
The CSU homepage is www.csuohio.edu.
More Prior art by SAIC (Score:1)
Actually, I'd bet there are alot of Military systems SAIC built for the US that fit this specification. Whether they can talk about them, I don't know.
Note about SAIC. It might be hard to find someone still there that will be able to help. SAIC is a pretty fragmented company.
Sorry, just 1992 (Score:2)
Good luck.
GeoVision (Score:2)
Anyway, they sold the software to various clients in the States (e.g. Southwestern Bell) and all over the world. They went bankrupt around the end of 80s and the software got assimilated back into SHL, so there are no obvious pointers to them on the web, but with a little research you might be able to dig up something. They were based in Ottawa.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Teamwork might fit the bill (Score:2)
Teamwork is a Structured Analysis/Design (or, more generally, a CASE) tool released by Cadre Technologies many many years ago. I'm not sure exactly when, though this link [interex.org] is from a 1987 conference and mentions Cadre and Teamwork.
I'm not certain what it was like back then, but the version that I worked with in the mid 90's had an Xwindows front end, which communicated with a mid-tier broker, which in turn stored its information in a database on the main server. Which sounds like exactly what you're asking about.
Cadre eventually merged with Bachman to become Cayenne Software, which was bought by Sterling Software [sterling.com], which itself was recently bought by Computer Associates. I'm willing to bet that there's at least someone still around there who would know for sure.
Re:GeoVision (Score:2)
I wondered if I'd see a post about VISION* - I worked at GeoVision way back when as well.
I'm not sure if it's quite what's being looked for, but it does date from the 1980's and back then, had users world wide. The product (or the concept anyway - there can't be much of the original code left) is still alive and well.
The ex-GVC unit was most recently aquired by Autodesk. See
http://www.autodesk.com/prods/vision /index.htm [autodesk.com]
for more details.
As far as I know there are still a few of the original developers involved with the code...
Good Luck!
Re:If you need to know more (Score:3)
You're asking us to get involved in a legal "battle" without giving us any details whatsoever. How smart of us would it be if we got involved without a shred of information from you? We have no idea who you are, or who you're up against.
What if by giving you the name of a small company, you used that company as prior art, but then it ruined a multi-million dollar relationship that company had with one of its biggest customers? You have to remember that people with kids to feed *work* for that small company. For you, it is an (presumably) intellectual and moral battle. For others, it could be their only source of business.
Uh-uh, no way. You're asking us to submit information without any quid-pro-quo whatsoever. I think *you* should go ask your lawyers and find out conclusively what you can legally disclose. Why should I waste my time talking to lawyers when you should get this information and post it. Full disclosure is only fair.
You should atleast disclose:
1) Who you are dealing against. This is fair, since business relationships can be affected.
2) What your plans are. How do we know you're not going to turn around and create a patent of your own? How do we know you're actually an open-source advocate, or if you're just exploiting the resources of /. to further your own economic goals? What if you're trying to steal the design created by some non-profit organization (for example)? We have no incentive to help you with some information.
3) What work it will create for the company that actually had the prior art. What if you create a huge workload for a small company that frankly can't afford to spend on someone else's problem? You should explain what the total work would be required. Would we be subpoenaed? Would we need to write a 10 page essay? If it requires more than sending an e-mail to some judge, why should we waste our valuable time helping you?
I think you should answer these questions fully and truthfully before you can expect real help.
Step 1: What Unix RDBMSs were around in 1991? (Score:2)
It seems to me that you'd want to start from the RDBMS itself -- what was available in that timeframe, and who was using it? I kinda remember Unify, Oracle and Ingres... what others were there?
So troll around in user groups and mailing lists and such for these products, and see if you can find people who were using those back then and did they ever have an X-based application for it.
One possible thing to do is to search through some antique collections of open-source software. For example, I have Walnut Creek's three volumes of Usenet source newsgroup archives (comp.sources.unix, comp.sources.x, etc). I took a quick look through the 1985-1990 and 1991-1992 volumes, and nothing jumped out at me. Still, you might be able to use these somewhat indirectly -- for example, by recursively grepping through the comp.sources.x stuff, I noted that a fellow by the name of Gibson, working at Unify, made some contributions to olvwm3 in the early 1990s. If you can track him down, he might remember if they ever did any X-based apps or if they just used X for developing non-X code like everyone else.
I will say, though, digging through those CDs was quite a trip down memory lane.
Re:Which patent is this? (Score:2)
----
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:2)
Re:Found in a quick google search... (Score:1)
Proceedings of the ACM (Score:1)
This URL points to an abstract of a system that seems to assume some of the prior art that you are asking for. However it's been done on an old Xerox LISP machine, not on a UNIX box using the X window system.
However the abstract does say that the database is running on a sun server with a relational database, and the article is from 1990.
I don't have an ACM account with which to access the complete article, and I'm not going to pay for the download. Perhaps your library has this on the shelf?
-Peter
Bank terminals.. xman? (Score:1)
While I'm not sure if CDE has existed for this long, bank applications might be a good place to look.
Also, If you consider the man database to be relational (it DOES tell you to see other man pages :). xman is also copyright 1988 by MIT, or
at least that's the earliest implementation that I
can find.
Unigraphics iMAN (Score:1)
http://www.ugsolutions.com/products/iman/about_
However, it might not count - it had an X (Motif) UI, and a relational database underneath, but it's not clear how separated your layers/tiers have to be. Does the UI/client have to be a separate process from the application code, or is being on X sufficient for that (i.e. is the X server itself your "very thin client")?
SAS (Score:1)
http://www.sas.com
http://www.sas.com/products/af/index.html
The SAS system provides a relational database, and the SAS/AF portion of the
product lets you code "user-friendly interactive windowing applications". I
don't know too much about the full capabilities of it, but in our case these
applications have an X interface. The applications are written in the SAS
programming language. The SAS Institute has been around since the '70s, and I
believe these products have been around since well before 1991.
So there's the X front end, some SAS code in the middle, and the SAS database
on the back end, and it's pre-1991.
Re:what /. is (Score:2)
Why the cloak and dagger stuff? (Score:1)
Sounds more like you're getting Slashdot to provide you with, or prove the absense of, prior art to:
a) Fight a lawsuit brought about by you over a patent you own
or
b) Check for prior art the easy way before filing for a patent of your own.... perhaps saving a bit of your own time and money?
If not, why would you not provide the patent number so that everyone else can join the call to arms? (ie. safety in numbers??)
Sorry to be cynical, but what legal reason could there be to prevent you from stating the number?
M@T
i have several (Score:5)
character gui -> mainframe broker -> database.
2) XDM. That's right, the X display manager. Login Screen -> PAM ->
3) IBM's callup application. It's a program to look up info on IBM employees, and it has every interface known to man. I'm willing to be that some Unix dork back in the day wrote an X front end to it. It's prolly even more than 3 tiers.
as an aside, who cares why she wants the patent shut down? it's a software patent on obvious technology, and it can foad.
good luck,
blue
Re:Side Note (Score:1)
Keep the patents, overhaul the system that awards them, i say.
Re:what /. is (Score:1)
And the point still stands, that just because this person may be the enemy of your enemy doesn't neccessarily mean htat she's your friend, right? I think it's right in asking that if she's going to ask
Re:It's not X - but it's nearly the same thing (Score:1)
My last job I worked on an app like that (Score:3)
name: Advantage Financial (I think)
company: not sure if I CAN say
release date: the initial non x version was pre 92, and it micht have been pre 90. They moved to neuron data to build a UI for it. neuron data is(was) a C API that if you program to it you can compile on Mac, X or Windows.
I am not sure how much is intellectual property here though. ;-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't want a lot, I just want it all
Flame away, I have a hose!
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:1)
(Not that there's any doubt in my mind as it is you understand.. just don't rub it in, ok?)
Re:3-Tier (Score:2)
Re:Which patent is this? (Score:2)
International Business Machines Corporation, Armonk, NY
Re:GeoVision (Score:2)
I posted a lot more about the product before I saw your posting. FYI, VISION* is know owned and sold by Autodesk (makers of AutoCAD, etc.), but they're still only targeting the big cu$tomers.
(The flat files for spatial data were dropped with VISION* 2.0, where we went all-relational. I don't know who came up with the technology first, but Oracle's spatial-data extensions are very similar to what we (well, Orest, John, etc.) implemented).
VISION* high level design was published (Score:2)
I don't know how early this goes back. I know we made a big song and dance of going "all relational" (including the spatial data in the RDB) because we were perhaps the first company to do this and the buzz was that "it couldn't be done" (too much of a performance hit). But I'm sure that other papers and sales literature hit on the general design (RDBappX-windows) before we went "AR". (I don't recall exact dates on the latter, I'd have to dig out old calendars for things like design meetings, etc.)
Is 1987 early enough? (Score:3)
The product (then) had two versions (some overlapping code), AMS (Advanced Mapping System) and GIS (Geographic Information System), the company was GeoVision Systems Ltd (in the US, parent corp was GeoVision Corporation in Canada), spun off from SystemHouse Graphics. Later the products were slightly rearchitected and made more flexible, and renamed to "VISION*" under which name it's still sold.
The core technology comprised a relational database -- primarily Oracle (Oracle 6, back then, Oracle 8 now), but we briefly flirted with Ingres and one other. The display technology was X Windows, X 10 back then, migrating to X 11 sometime around 1989 or 1990. The application code inbetween included various components such as a database-interface layer (which also added the spatial component), various form managers, display list managers, graphic editors, and a scripting language (we called it a "macro language" - GML, GeoVision Macro Language - but it wasn't really) to customize it and tie all the pieces together.
Pretty neat actually, and with potential beyond the cartographic/GIS/etc domain (I once prototyped a CASE tool based on it in about a day). (In fact, so neat I'm working on an open source reimplementation of it -- see www.cavor.org [cavor.org] -- but there's a lot to go yet).
As far as documenting it goes -- there ought to be some documents, old manuals, etc around although I don't have any. We had a number of large companies, municipal governments, and other government organizations as customers.
The original company, GeoVision (not to be confused with another GIS company of the same name) went bankrupt back in 1993. The VISION* technology was bought by SystemHouse Ltd, (and most of the customers had source in escrow), traded hands a few times as companies were bought and sold, and is now owned by Autodesk who still markets the software [autodesk.com].
Depending on the details of this patent, it could well threaten Autodesk's marketing of VISION*, so assuming they acquired whatever historical documents were around, they might be the people to talk to.
what /. is (Score:1)
Ask /. is for discussion on technology that can help alot of people, or for sharing neat little hacks that can help a few people people, but not for legal research help for one person.
In my unhumble opinion, anyway.
DBConnect for Ingres on the early 90s NeXT cube? (Score:4)
If this doesn't fit the bill, I really think the possibility of an Ingres-related application fitting your requirements is pretty high. Ingres was widely available in the academic/university community, supported remote connections from Unix, and almost certainly sported at least one X-based app.
Re:um... (Score:1)
Patent lawyers aren't really the people to find prior art on technical computer concepts... Let's just say, maybe this person is trying to determine if this is even an issue before getting lawyers too involved...
CORBA was released in 1991... (Score:2)
Re:tons of this kind of stuff (Score:1)
tons of this kind of stuff (Score:3)
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:1)
Huh... Don't you have/use paper recycling?
Informix Wingz (Score:1)
what about sun's x-windows applications? (Score:1)
Calendar manager is an application that talks to
centralized calendar files using RPC. The client
application is an X application. It connects to
a database on a server system using RPC (rpc.cmsd).
The database keeps track of the user's calendar
appointments. You can check other people's
calendars (the stuff they let you see)
I think this has been around for quite a while,
but I'm not sure the date. Does anyone know?
I know it ran on SunOs 4.x with openwindows
and later solaris.
Re:Step 1a: What RDBMSs were around in 1991? (Score:1)
Check out your library (Score:1)
Found in a quick google search... (Score:5)
Re:i have several (Score:1)
You mean more than the 5250 emulator interface? 8^)
--
Re:what /. is (Score:1)
--Ricky
Quintus (Score:1)
Basically it was a call/bug tracking database. The client wasn't too thin, being written in Object Oriented Prolog w/ X extensions, but it had a remote DB server, an X-based client, and the ability to write application code in either a proprietary language or Prolog.
It was the bane of my existence for several years. Hopefully it helps you more that it did me.
Oskee-wow-wow,
PlazMan
Re:I don't know if it qualifies, but... (Score:1)
Hesiod, according to this [mit.edu], is: The Hesiod name service allows an application to retrieve associations between a name, a particular type of service, and information about that named service. Some examples of this are course locker names and system libraries, other RVD or NFS lockers, usernames and passwd entries as found in /etc/passwd, printer information, such as might be
found in /etc/printcap, service and mailbox locations, and
service-to-port mappings, such as are found in /etc/services.
Here's one from the late 1980's (Score:4)
The paper describes components of a metadata system that uses middleware to combine an X11 UI with distributed databases. Was started in 1989 and I came across it in 1993 when it was well established and indeed in decline (the X11 client at any rate).
Also:
http://www.anu.edu.au/CNASI/pubs/OnDisc95/docs/
X.
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:2)
Of course there is prior art! (Score:3)
I worked with Nortel (then Northern Telecom) in the 1988-1990 period. They had production systems with Mac, Win3.1, and Unix/X11 front ends to RPC and TP based middleware. Not that I have any application or contact names, but there is no doubt the technology was already in use.
Business/database computing classes also described such technologies when I was in university a couple years prior to that. Odds are there are some published research papers that not only describe the concept, but compare different implementations for performance.
You also might want to check out IBMs patent database. Most of the n-tier technology concepts were the result of research originally targetted at scaling mainframe applications, including departmental FEPs (front-end processors, a specialized form of middleware.) The fact that X11 provides the display instead of a terminal or PC should be irrelevant.
Re:Perl??? (Score:1)
Perl??? (Score:3)
Perl was released, IIRC, in 1988-87. When perl is used in CGI scripting it is run on the server. Any web browser would be your X-window app, and you would just have to check to see when the first DB access MOD was written for Perl. If not perl, than maybe similiar scripting languages. It would all seem to fit...or I am completely off base and I will feel the flames lick at my feet
I don't know if it qualifies, but... (Score:2)
It was created at MIT around 1990, or at least the document about it has Feb. 1990 as its first revision date.
It's an instant messaging system, and as such, has some clients (some X clients, some tty, etc.), a distributed network, and servers which keep track of users, messages, and other stuff. Users can/could "subscribe" to certain classes of messages, which in effect causes the server to apply different filters to the messages that get percolated over the network to each user.
Try the above URL for some documentation, here's more of the old docs [mit.edu] (postscript format).
I can't really help you with contact information, but I'm sure there are a couple emails listed in the documentation somewhere.
Re:what /. is (Score:2)
As a side note, is there a stupid patent archive somewhere? Where people could post a link to a moronic patent and have others take a look at it. Sort of the Oracle for patents.
Walt
1992? Way late. (Score:1)
xrn (Score:5)
I don't know when it was created, but xrn [mit.edu] has been around a while. It's on version 9.02 by now.
I guess it's not really a "relational" database, though, but it certainly is a 3-tier database with X-windows front end.
Re:xrn (Score:1)
xrn (usenet) is not really 3-tier. If something it is rather 2-tier. The client (xrn) connects to the server. The server is part of a "distributed database" if you will (certainly not an RDBMS), it does *not* behave like a middle tier.
Which patent is this? (Score:5)
Just in case I pick the right one: I hereby swear that I have never met or been in any sort of contact with Professor Winslett, and I'm just doing this to be a pest, and not out of any sort of collusion :)
Anyway, some guesses:
3-tier Central Reservations System (Score:2)
Some facts:
Re:MIT's Moira fits the bill it would seem (Score:1)
Moira is the configuration management system used by MIT Project Athena. It manages useraccounts, groups, mailing lists, filesystems, and other configuration data for a distributed system of 1000 systems and 20000 users. It features a relational database (originally Ingres, later ported to Oracle), and several network front ends. Originally, all of the front ends were character based, but we eventually made a couple of X-based graphical front ends too.
It was first published outside MIT in a paper in the Winter 1988 Usenix Association conference proceedings. The first X-based client, xregister, went into use in 1991 if I remember correctly.
You can check out the current version of Moira at http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/astaff/proj
Re:WAIS Z39.50 1988 Contact info (Score:2)
Schiettecatte
FS Consulting
Internet: francois@wais.com (now here [hummingbird.com])
435 Highland Avenue
Rochester, NY 14620
Phone : (716) 256-2850
Fax : (716) 473-9695
Re:WAIS Z39.50 1988 Linkage (Score:4)
or this:http://www .cni.org/pub/NISO/docs/Z39.50-brochure/50.brochure .part01.html [cni.org]
or this: http://www.i fla.org/documents/libraries/cataloging/metadata/gi ls-i.txt [ifla.org]
That last link has a lot of very good low level contrast between the 1988 version and the early 90s version. Now all you need is someone to standup and swear they deployed Z39.50 1988 when it came out.
Re:Card catalogs (Score:2)
Of course, this sort of thing had been going on much longer, but instead of X and a GUI you had an IBM terminal and an input form. You could probably find that sort of thing going on since the '60's. Using X instead of a character based terminal to display the input form doesn't take a huge intellectual leap.
Off to apply for a patent? (Score:2)
I'd probably run such a thing as an expesnive subscription service. Larger companies wouldn't think twice about paying for a service like this, if even a couple of applications of it a year will save them some legal expenditures. Perhaps a tier-level approach where lower tiers could search the database for a low-low monthly price and higher tiers could commission you to go after a patent that's not currently in your database. Just a couple of ideas of course.
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:2)
Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:3)
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:1)
a good point was brought up.... although i agree that a patent like the one described would be truly horrible, i don't believe in focusing the entire force of slashdot (flames,trolls,ddos and all) at anyone without sufficient reason...
i will be no one's pawn
This ain't the issue at all (Score:2)
What I would place my bet on here, are magazines and scientific papers prior to '91, maybe newsgroups but I doubt that would stick in court. Search for elaborate articles that explain in detail what you're looking for. If you do, that should invalidate the patent, but I recommend asking your lawyers about it.
But let's not forget the REAL issue here. These software patents shouldn't be accepted in the first place! It's like being forced to accept that Sun created Java, and live by their rules because it's suddenly ILLEGAL to develop something similar. Never mind that people have created Smalltalk, C++ and whatnot Java was based on. Accepting a patent is just like accepting being stolen of your lunch-money by big bullies.
- Steeltoe
A violent society breeds violence.
Don't patents have to be non-obvious? (Score:1)
The whole idea of X is that you can have a graphical interface on machine A, with the program itself running on (presumably faster) machine B.
It is therefore OBVIOUS that the program could be accessing a database on machine C.
Also, if you want to find multi-tier database applications with an X or other graphical front end, seek out Progress Software Corporation. They have been doing client/server RDB stuff for a LONG time.
I'm sure they'd be happy to help block a patent like the one described, which would utterly fuck them. (Unless it's them trying to get the patent, but I doubt it - IMHO they're not big enough to withstand comfortably the hostility such a move would earn them.)
Good Luck
Re:xrn (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:2)
How about Netrek? (Score:1)
And it was definitely X based and client server...
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:2)
1) Companies pay you not to research yours.
2) Work secretly-- companies hire you to provide evidence when they sue over the bad patent.
3) Work openly-- companies hire you to break their competitor's patents.
How About CAD Applications ?? (Score:1)
SysAdmin-in-a-Box (was MIT's Moira...) (Score:1)
We've got about 40K users, lots of machines, printers, lists, filesystems, etc, all managed more-or-less without sysadmins (we do have 1 sysadmin, but she has other things to do -- mostly bug me for enhancements it seems :)
Are you an instructor and want a maillist of your students (kept up to date with adds/drops for you)? Point, click, done. Want a file space 'locker', to go with that? point, click, done. Need to charge some printing to your department or to your U-Bill? You got it: point, click, done.
I have always wanted to add a button [Random LART] though -- I figure it would be a real timesaver for some of our users :)
MIT's Moira fits the bill it would seem (Score:4)
UIM/X was a tool like that (Score:1)
Cybergraphics (Score:1)
Cybergraphic was bought by Geac (geac.com), the buyer-of-all-things. They'd probably share your interest in this patent.
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:1)
I strongly suspect that had the story's poster not been so forthright about which details she could not legally divulge, it never would have occurred to you to question what she did tell you.
I know of one... (Score:1)
I would think that this would fit what this person is thinking of.
And with the government requirement for documentation, all projects that used this TDB, would have it in their SOW (Statements of Work) and SDP (Software Development Plans).
WAIS (Score:4)
"Grant 'em all and let the courts sort 'em out." - USPTO Motto
Three-tier architecture in popular BBS (Score:2)
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
Re:what /. is (Score:1)
Re:Any Terminal Program. (Score:1)
Re:Found in a quick google search... (Score:1)
Omnis (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... Need a priorart.com... (Score:3)
The Washington Post ran an article about a consultant in LA who is making money on prior art searches. Companies involved in disputes like this will gladly pay the guy thousands of dollars so they can beat the patent and avoid paying some other company millions of dollars. Sorry, it was the dead tree edition, which is now decaying very slowly in a landfill, so I can't tell you the URL for the article.
Fonts are graphics too... (Score:2)
Unless your dumb terminal used sound to tell you the letters on the screen, a la "War Games," then you used a graphical terminal when you used a dumb terminal. The only difference is that the graphics displayed were little pictures that represent sounds.
The capital letter A is an example of this. Draw a bulls head with a large set of horns, now turn your drawing upside down. Looks a little like the letter A, doesn't it? So anytime you see an A on the screen you are looking at the picture of a cow. Each letter can be traced back to similar little pictures over the course of thousands of years.
Even dumb terminals are pretty smart. Dumb terminals need to process their input in order to properly display the characters in the correct positions, and with the proper attributes. Not to mention keep track of where the cursor is on the screen. Each terminal type used different control characters embedded into the text stream in order to accomplish this processing. Anyone who has ever tried to use the wrong terminal type or had their shell set to the wrong terminal size knows how screwed up your terminal could get if you sent the wrong characters.
So, fonts are graphics and dumb terminals are clients that process their input. Things just aren't as clear as those patent people would like us to believe.
Any program that accessed any collection of data and then used the curses library to display to a terminal should meet his needs...
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:4)
Or perhaps she is Professor of Computer Science at the University of Illinois.
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:2)
If you already suspect someone of having the wrong ends in mind, why would you have any incentive to believe the reason they give?
The paranoid view (which is my view, generally) would be that a corporation (or an agent thereof) would say anything they had to say to get the proper information. They might be saying they're only trying to quash a patent that should never have been granted, but perhaps they have some more nefarious goal. Why would you believe that they have only honesty in them?
At the same time, from this message it seems clear that they are looking for someone else's product, which they could hardly patent. So assuredly this is only for their own purposes, but it seems as if it should help the rest of us. You are probably better off making your judgement on whether or not to help them based on the information you actually DO have; Someone is trying to crush a patent that ostensibly should never have been granted. The terms they are using sound sufficiently broad.
On the other hand, they could conceivably be trying to use this information to remove a patent that some company is protecting a reputable piece of software with because they have no other means. Are you going to believe what they tell you? That's your decision. Personally, I believe that when it comes to corporations, relying on information the corporations give you is always a mistake. On the other hand, perhaps he works for some small software startup which is still full of righteousness and piety.
Anything's possible, I guess.
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:2)
Prior art by SAIC (Score:3)
Card catalogs (Score:2)
I bet you could find someone who used Xterminal to access one or both of these pre-1992...
sulli
Re:what underlying political motivations? (Score:2)
Yeah, Mosaic led to Netscape, which led to Mozilla...
sulli
Re:Which patent is this? (Score:2)
I'm not aware of IBM being particularly litigious with their myriad of patents. And if it were IBM, I think we might have heard more about this case, even if its a small one.
What about Archie? (Score:2)
-Matt
3-Tier (Score:5)
2. It was created by a man named Guy Pope, at the USAF Standard System Center, Gunter AFB, Montgomery Albama.
3. It allowed users to enter/retrieve records (accounting information).
4. It was released before I started working for them in June 1988.
5. I really can't point out where to find it (it is a military application, though). You might want to try to contact them about it. The group is GAFS (General Acounting and Finance Systems).
6. You can contact me (caver@caver.org) as I will swear it was there. I was the release manager for our group for 2 years, I ought to know what I released.
It was a C front end, runing over DOS, that allowed you to enter information that was then sent to a COBOL back end (yes, COBOL) which then retrieved/wrote the data from/to an AFORMS (Air Force blah blah Relational blah blah blah) database.
We didn't think this was original in 1988, how they thought it was original in 1991 is beyond me.
Re:Perl??? (Score:2)
- There is no work, there is no work...
- Damn, it worked for Neo!
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If you need to know more (Score:5)
--Marianne Winslett