Migrating From MS/IIS to Linux/Apache?

Mixhaus asks: "I'm trying to promote the Linux culture in my company. I want to migrate or at least start all new web projects on a Linux/Apache setup. Currently all the development is done on IIS/ASP with MSSQL 7.0. Has anybody done this kind of migration before? Any suggestions?"

"These are some of the questions that come up to my mind:

• Be able to migrate IIS to Apache first, and still be able to access the MSSQL databases (FreeTDS?)
• Use a scripting syntax similar to ASP so that the programmers don't have much of a headache learning new stuff (PHP looks like a solution).
• Migrate MSSQL 7 to MySQL, PostgreSQL or other (Which one is better for web development?)
• Web log reports (I need to generate reports on the web site usage. What weblog report generators are available for Linux? Which ones do you use? Are there any that generate graphs, charts, etc..?)

Thanks to the whole Slashdot Community!"

DB migration

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll probably want to take that database migration slowly. I hear changing DB engines can be a pain in the ass. You could try making your apache CGI (or whatever) apps with MS SQL Server with ODBC Socket Server [linuxave.net]. At work we have apache with mod perl and CGI apps with an SQL server backend with this program.

My opinions...

[Carnage4Life]

These are some of the questions that come up to my mind:

Be able to migrate IIS to Apache first, and still be able to access the MSSQL databases (FreeTDS?)

Use a scripting syntax similar to ASP so that the programmers don't have much of a headache learning new stuff (PHP looks like a solution).

Java Server Pages [sun.com] will solve both problems. Sun has worked very closely with the Apache project on making JSP run well under Apache including giving away code and contributing to projects a la Tomcat [sun.com]. Here's a site to give you a quick overview of JSP [jhu.edu].

Migrate MSSQL 7 to MySQL, PostgreSQL or other (Which one is better for web development?)

Depends on what kind of Web development you are doing. For the kind of work I have done which is both mission critical (eliminating MySQL) and requires speed (eliminating PostgreSQL) commercial databases have always been the correct solution to solve my problem. Both IBM's DB2 [ibm.com] and Oracle 8i [oracle.com] are available for Linux and are also very friendly with Apache and Java.

If your site does not traffic in mission critical data (e.g. a bank, major e-commerce company) then MySQL may be the solution that you seek. It is quick, fairly easy to use and heck, slashdot uses it.

Web log reports (I need to generate reports on the web site usage. What weblog report generators are available for Linux? Which ones do you use? Are there any that generate graphs, charts, etc..?)

Look on Freshmeat [freshmeat.net].


(-1 Troll)

OpenSA

[skotske]

There were a group called OpenSA which were distributing Apache with mod ASP as well as SSL PHP etc. Their URL doesn't seem to work anymore

http://www.opensa.org

but there is a mirror

http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lcr299/opens a/ [soton.ac.uk]

Usage Info

[eap]

To generate page stats, check out the Webalizer [mrunix.net].

JSP/Servlets as an alternative to ASP

[christophercook]

Hi,
We've recently ported a 10,000 user intranet system from ASP to Servlets. At the same time we've also been doing some JSP stuff and at the end of the day the simplest and most direct conversion would be to JSP for your page templates & Java classes for your application logic. There are many other alternatives including using a Java port of ASP in the form of the Chillisoft asp or similar. Ideally if you go for JSP/Servlets/Java in general (check out the Resin JSP/servlet engine at www.caucho.com) then you have platform independence - you can host on anything from there on.

I'd recommend the JSP route for it's similarities to ASP and the fact your not relying on any one vendor (even Sun) for any of your components. You might also find that MySQL can do a lot of the MS SQL server stuff as long as your not using Triggers/Views/Stored Procedures etc..

The easiest way...

[JonK]

1. Be able to migrate IIS to Apache first, and still be able to access the MSSQL databases (FreeTDS?)

   Use a scripting syntax similar to ASP so that the programmers don't have much of a headache learning new stuff (PHP looks like a solution).

   Migrate MSSQL 7 to MySQL, PostgreSQL or other (Which one is better for web development?)

Wouldn't it be simplest to run the ASPs you've got (if they contain large amounts of business logic) under Chili!Soft's ASP doodad: you'd have to fsck about with all the database access side of it and if you're based round a three-tier architecture with middle tier COM components then you're SOL anyway, but it'd at least make porting the front-end fast.

As far as the backend goes, if you're going to port away from Microsoft SQL Server and your DBA doesn't bury an axe in your head at the suggestion, move to Sybase. From another comment in this thread:

1. You might also find that MySQL can do a lot of the MS SQL server stuff as long as your not using Triggers/Views/Stored Procedures etc

Moving to Sybase will cause you lots of pain, but it'll cause you far less pain than moving to anything else. You have been warned:-)

Don't you think that it might be better to roll out new systems on an experimental platform rather than trying to backport systems you've already got running?
--
Cheers

Web Logs

[Echo|Fox]

I highly reccomend Webalizer for your web logs. It's the best I've seen, since it has an incremental feature, so deleting/cropping your Apache logs doesn't faze it, and it really tracks everything you could possibly want: views/hits/files/visits, referrals, search engine keywords, daily/hourly stats, generates pretty graphs, the works. I've got it cronned to run every hour, and it parses my logs in a few seconds on a p166. You can grab it from FreeBSD ports, or at its webpage here [mrunix.net].

Re:Are your ASP sites simple or complex?

[True Dork]

Yes, Chili runs on Linux. Yes, it is a DSO for Apache. No, it certainly is not free (~$700/processor I think). Apparantly COM will work, but I started looking at the directions and thought to myself "Yeah right, like I'll be able to get these guys to do THIS". Chili works quite well actually! We haven't had any problems at all.

I had this battle recently too. The developers demanded an IIS server, MSSQL, and Frontpage Ext. and turned their noses up at PHP and Perl. They wanted ~$10,000 worth of software to do this.

Trust me, it is very very hard to get people who are used to ASP, Macromedia, etc to cooperate at all with these setups. They did get used to MySQL pretty quickly though. My conversations went something like this:
"We want NT5/IIS/MSSQL/Frontpage"
me:"Okay, go ask the boss for $10,000 and you get to be the one that is called if it goes down at 2am"
"ummm......"
me:"Or, we run Apache, and I get the 2am calls if it goes down"
"ummm...... we'll take Apache?"
me:*tap**tap* /usr/local/apache/bin/apachectl start

Website Reports

[severett]

We use Analog with Report Magic to make things look pretty. It seems to work quite well and there have been no complaints.

For an example check out:
http://www.reportmagic.com/sample/index.html

ASP

[buddhaz]

What about solutions like Chili!soft ASP to ease conversion, can anyone report on experiences in this area?

If you've got some Perl experience....

[dannyspanner]

....you might like to look at Mason [masonhq.com] which builds on mod_perl to give you Perl in a ASP/PHP style. It's strength is that it has a strong component-based system which supports ideas such as automatic templating of pages (thus avoiding "include header" and "include footer" on every page).

weblog analysis

[weeble]

We use Webtrends [webtrends.com] log analyser for Linux. It costs a mint but is fantastic in the quality of reports it generates. There is a 30 day trial you might like to try.

Re:Usage Info

[mrfiddlehead]

wusage [boutell.com] is another you might want to check out.

Good suggestions here, but not complete.

[broken77]

Here are a few technologies to consider (using Perl):

• Apache::ASP [nodeworks.com]
• Embperl [apache.org]
• Mason [masonhq.com]
• Template::Toolkit [template-toolkit.org]

There are many more, but these are the ones I would consider for people who already know ASP. Apache::ASP looks like a very mature and solid product, as does Embperl. I would trust either of those.

Also, is there a business need to convert the existing ASP code to work with the new platform? If so, you might consider looking into ASP2PHP [naken.cc], if you're already considering PHP. The author says that it will convert most of the code to PHP.

Also, I can tell you that there is (sort of) a project in the works right now to build an ASP to Apache::ASP/Perl converter and/or interpreter. To follow this, just keep an eye on the mod_perl mailing list at one of the archive locations. It will probably be called VBScript::Parser. See http://perl.apache.org/#maillists [apache.org] for a list of searchable archives. Most of them are updated weekly.

Also, I've noticed some comments along the lines of "JSP is without a doubt the best/fastest technology out there". Uh... Where is your proof on this? I have a suggestion, go to the mod_perl mailing list and make this statement. See where it gets you. According to them, "It's widely accepted that server side Java solutions such as JServ, JSP and JRUN, are far slower then mod_perl solutions" (http://perl. apache.org/perl_myth.html#Java_does_away_with_the_ need_for [apache.org]).

That being said, I think that JSP is a fine technology, and there is nothing wrong with using it. I'm about to embark on a project myself using JSP. Just don't try to tell people it's the "Holy Grail". That's more than arguable.

Re:The easiest way...

[drinkypoo]

Personally, I'd stick with M$ SQL Server. It's the microsoft product I'm the least displeased with, there's a great deal of information out there on how to deal with it, it is possible to administer remotely in a fairly secure manner (and if you do VPN, then that's not even an issue) and really, SQL Server is quite fast -- Faster than Sybase in most tests.

Trust me, I'm not much of a microsoft fan, but SQL Server really is a decent product. Unless, of course, you have need of clustering, in which case you should run in the other direction as fast as you can. At that point I suggest Interbase with one of the linux clustering packages. It can't possibly be as bad as M$ Clustering Services.

Re:Are your ASP sites simple or complex?

[Anonymous Coward]

Grrr... I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I'm a developer and want to use PHP/MySQL but the Admin guys refuse to touch Linux.