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OS-Independent Web Banking? 218

Posted by Cliff from the the-internet-isn't-all-mac-and-windows-you-know dept.
kalaleq asks: "My bank, Toronto Dominion, recently updated their Web banking application. It was already dependent on Netscape or Internet Explorer, I believe, but now it is dependent on later versions of the same...and limited to the Windows and Mac platforms. Theoretically the site should work on Netscape for UNIX, but seemingly due to some minor JavaScript incompatibility, critical functions no longer work on that setup. I wrote TD early in the year asking if they could fix this apparently minor problem. I received the reply that they did not support Linux, but were looking into it as they recognised that Linux's popularity is growing. It is now almost a year later, nothing has been done." Any bank that is willing to lose customers over a "minor JavaScript incompativility" is a bank that is not worthy to hold my money and I would recommend that people consider this small fact. Would some of you care to recommend a replacement bank with a decent (OS-independent) online presence?"

"I recently wrote again, and received no response at all, even though I mentioned that I would be writing an editorial for Slashdot, whether I could report a happy ending or not. That happy ending seems to be out of reach now. I even offered to contract to fix the problem myself.

The big question is, is there any bank with a good Web banking component that geeks can rely upon for good cross-platform support? TD's site is not only incompatible, but it relies on all sorts of client-side JavaScript to do things that could 99% of the time be just as easily done on the server side in PHP, CGI, ASP (which they are using now - another questionable decision), etc. Ideally I want to be able to log in from a text console using lynx and do my banking... and it seems to me with a little planning there's no reason I shouldn't be able to do so.

Another, broader question that comes to mind is this: Who makes the technology decisions at the big banks? These companies influence our daily lives to an astonishing degree, since they control our financial lives. When my bank decides to change their Web site to make it incompatible with my platform of choice, it really leaves me floundering. Who is responsible? What consulting firm is recommending these unfriendly, unnecessarily glitzy, and altogether unsound choices? If they're unaware of the needs of their less-than-mainstream customers - betraying a certain lack of thoroughness - can we really trust their security decisions?

Practically speaking, I'd like advice on a new, geek-friendly bank, if indeed such a thing exists. Preferably somewhere I can do my banking in a text-mode browser, but at least somewhere committed to supporting the most common graphical browsers on *all* platforms. For myself, the other requirement is that the bank be Canadian, though I think discussion of banks in other countries would be very interesting as well. The good thing about TD is that they have a no-fee minimum account level, which is convenient; a geek-friendly bank with a good service plan to boot would be ideal.

To be fair to my bank, I've been reasonably happy up until now. However, my inability to get any satisfaction on this matter has forced me to consider a move, if a better alternative exists."
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OS-Independent Web Banking? More

OS-Independent Web Banking?

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  • Why? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If you don't want to use an operating system that the bank's -- or ecommerce etc -- system supports, that is your perogative. However, you can't expect them all to support every operating system there is. That simply isn't possible.

    If they lose your business, that's one person. If they try to make their system work with everything, that's more money that one person is worth. Are there more people? Certainly, but they keep a second computer/partition with a 'common' operating system.

    Companies have finite resources, and they must choose what is the best value--supporting Windows especially, and also the Mac, is how they can make the most money. They owe this to their customers.

  • Security First Network Bank (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    howdy

    I've been using www.sfnb.com [sfnb.com] for a year or so with netscape (various versions) on Linux with nary a problem. I was nervous at first, not being able to walk into a branch, but the service has been flawless for me, unlike my local bank, Bank of America, who lost a deposit and took 2 months to credit it back even though i was waving a receipt in their faces. Check 'em out.
  • I've been with Canada Trust for many years, and only picked up a TD account for small stuff.

    The difference is incredible. Canada Trust is truly customer service oriented, and were the first to adopt a touch-screen teller service (that I know of in Canada) with friendly people behind the counter you can just talk to - no more paper slips, just walk right up.

    CT never got into the dial-up Windows-only remote banking (like TD did), they were prepared and ready with web-based banking right from the outset. The website doesn't use javascript or anything special, just straight HTML 2 or 3 with cgi-based forms, and appears very cross platform (you could use w3m or links, I'd assume).

    I had a problem once with the version of browser I used, emailed CT, and a representative emailed me back within hours and was contacting the technical people to help get it resolved quickly. She was very helpful, responsive, and friendly.

    TD Bank's web banking worries me. I tried it the other day, and found I get this cryptic ID and password to start. It seems they can't relate my Bank card number with Me. So if I want to do banking remotely where my ID isn't saved in the browser, I've got to carry this cryptic ID around with me (it's impossible to change).

    When I log in to TD, I see I'm directed to server # 40 something, and it's based on ASP. This also frightens me, if the bank is running an enourmous NT cluster. I won't trust that bank with my paychecks if it stays that way.

    Now that TD and CT are merging in the next year, supposedly the customer service aspect is surposed to be preserved for the new bank. The web-based technology is also surposed to merge, and the best aspects you would hope will stay.

    I sincerely hope they keep CT's web-based system, and drop the crap that TD has come up with. It does everything I need, it's been reliable, and allows me to do banking anywhere. If they don't, I'll seriously consider switching to another bank.

    I know TD has spent probably millions developing their system, using an internal e-commerce development team. I've seen them at career fairs recruiting to do this sort of development. But what they've come up with for the UI should be scrapped.

  • CIBC (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Hi kalaleg,

    If you do decide to switch banks, CIBC has an excellent pc banking web site. It's plain and simple, with a high S:N ratio. It's rarely down, and works with lynx. Transactions (even visa) are instantaneous, and the service is good, too.

  • TD Current Beta fixes problems (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Actually I too found this problem after they updated their site. I've been using TD site since it opened under linux without problems untill now. Infact will I called about setting up my brother they were surprised that we were using linux, that it even worked. Anyhow. I'm currently beta testing for their next web site. You can find it at https://webbankingpilotx.tdaccess.com. It works fine under linux. In fact it's meant to fix their linux problems. Note I don't work for TD I was just upset about this like the original poster, and found out about it. Conspircy theories aside, this proves to me that big business will support Linux, if it affects their profits.

  • Re:Citibank (Score:3)

    by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @10:49AM (#687213) Homepage Journal
    Funny note - the VP in charge of Citibank's online retail banking operation is one of my limo customers, and has been for years. After many long conversations about Linux and alternative OSes, he made sure the Citibank site was totally cross-platform, which was not only a good customer move but also made a lot of the Unix and Linux coders who work there real happy and got him a *lot* of respect from them.

    This person, who I would rather not name here, has since bought a dual-boot home computer from a small, local vendor, and is gradually falling off the edge into Linux.

    BTW, I filed my taxes last year using TurboTax online -- in Linux -- and the small local bank where I keep both my personal and limo-business accounts runs platform-independent online banking and plans to keep it that way.

    Let the bankers know you're out there, and that your choice of banks is at least in part dependent on their ability to serve your needs. This works especialy well with small local banks, and even better if you also own a business, even a small one, because business accounts are better profit sources than persoanl accounts.

    - Robin

  • USBank (Score:1)

    by SuperQ ( 431 )
    USBank recently re-did their website, it used to be some really bad CGI .exe's and it was really slow.. it's much faster now, and looks like they use cold fusion on their main site. and now JSP on the secure web site for the online banking.. it does require a 128bit encryption browser, but works fine with netscape 4.75 in linux.
    netcraft seems to be fubar right now.. so i can't check the actual server info.
  • I'd switch from TD anyway if I were you, if they're the ones that own TD Waterhouse (I'm pretty sure they are). While their TD Waterhouse interface has never given me any problems for running Linux, it's given me plenty of other problems because something there apparently doesn't scale well. What's worse is that their customer service doesn't scale well either.

    A few weeks ago I attempted to place an order for a few shares of a stock and their webserver kept returning errors (some of which stated that the load was too high). Well, I tried calling their tech support line to see if my order had gone through but after being on hold for several minutes I was redirected to a message saying that I had reached a "non-existant telephone number at TD Waterhouse". Why their phone tree at their customer service line would redirect me to a non-existant number is beyond me. After unsuccessfully trying my order two more time and trying their customer service line again with the same results, I called their research line in an attempt talk with any human there and tell them their tech support line wasn't working. I received exceedingly rude service and the person I spoke with vehemently denied that their system was having any problems (his justification was that I got through to him, so how could their phone system be experiencing problems - I hate stupid people). Well, it turned out that three orders had been placed for the stock when I only wanted one and he also refused to let me cancel two of the orders because I hadn't spoken to an account representative first (regardless of the fact that I couldn't get through to a representative and the fact that the orders never showed up on my pending orders page). I've actually had other serious problems with TD Waterhouse in the past, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Suffice is to say, those were the last buy orders TD Waterhouse is ever going to see from me. I've opened up an account with BuyAndHold.com and the difference has just been amazing so far. I'm buying all new stock through BuyAndHold.com and slowly liquidating my TD Waterhouse holding as it becomes time to sell them.

    On a different and better note, I've been using Fleet Homelink on Linux since it was BankBoston Homelink and it has always worked well for me. It seems like a well designed app and I've never seen it too heavily loaded to deal with me. It doesn't work in Mozilla M18 with PSM, but I suspect that may be a Mozilla problem and not Fleet's fault. A lot of people complain about Fleet in general for various reasons (I haven't had problems, personally), but their home banking website is one thing they definitely did right.

  • Re:Why? (Score:4)

    by sjames ( 1099 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @12:41PM (#687216) Homepage Journal

    If you don't want to use an operating system that the bank's -- or ecommerce etc -- system supports, that is your perogative. However, you can't expect them all to support every operating system there is. That simply isn't possible.

    Actually, in the case of a web app, it IS possable to support any operating system that has a browser with SSL capabilities. All that's required is keeping the display reletivly simple and functional. I don't know of any browser that can't handle a form with the POST method. That's all that's really required.

    Simple pages like that also place less load on the server. If the banks insist on a bunch of eye candy, perhaps they should start with a simple form like that as a functional prototype and keep it available for those who aren't using exactly the same version of browser as the web developer.

    Interestingly, simple forms like that are also more accessible for the visually impared and more adaptable to WAP and PalmVII. Another OS in a partition won't help a blind person use a clueless web banking app that only likes the standard (non text to speech) version of their browser.

  • I second the note for royal bank. I was just on there last night transferring some funds to my Visa and credit lines. The 1-800-ROYAL-55 number always seems to have clueful people on the other end (for those times when things don't work quite as planned... like you forgot your password, say ;).

    RBOC's website also does appear to be totally browser agnostic (with the caveat mentioned that it has to do HTTPS).

    I also use it to import account activities into a format my accountant likes to see, which is hella easier than re-entering statements. =P

    --
    rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)

  • I've worked on online banking systems. We could not support any X based clients on legal grounds, as there is no way to guarantee the security of the transaction: a direct SSL connection to a desktop running X over a Unix domain socket is one thing, but running Netscape on a remote machine, then the user viewing the page sent unencrypted over their LAN was judged by our client to be an unacceptable risk. *Shrug* so there you have it.
  • I have been using Key Bank's Online Banking and have been quite happy with it. It is really nice and well designed and it works with Netscape and IE in both windows and linux. The only problem I have been having is I have been using Mozilla more and more and I installed the 128-bit encyption add on the other night. Every other secure web page I goto, smithbarney.com and mbnanetaccess.com etc all work just fine but Key's crashes Mozilla. I am not sure whether this is a Mozilla problem or a Key problem, though, so I don't hold it against them. Has anybody else had problems with secure sites using Mozilla M18 with the Netscape Personal Security Manager addon?
  • Barclays' (UK) Internet banking works fine for me from Linux and Netscape 4.7 -- it doesn't even use anything dodgy like Java.

    Smile are 100% online (well, they're the online arm of Cooperative Bank, but that's good enough) and have nice touchy-feely we-don't-invest-in-arms-dealers value... also work OK in Linux/Netscape but I've suffered Java related crashes from them in both Windows and Linux. Of course, it's worse in Windows because the whole OS can go down...
    --
  • I use Bank of America's [bankofamerica.com] web banking and it works fine for me. In fact, the fact that their web banking works under Linux is one of the few reasons I am still using them.
  • I recently looked, and ended up quiting that quest and went after the best deal for online banking (I finally got a laptop with Windows, I've been UNIX only for about 5 years).

    bankrate.com is good source of bank info, I went with netbank for my newest account but haven't tested it yet with Linux (Only got freebsd installed at the moment on my UNIX systems, my wife has Mandrake on her computer, I may test that later). I'm using Summit Bank (www.summitbank.com) for one account, that works fine in FreeBSD, it's all web based, and checks for browser security, not OS.

    The real problem is Quicken. All the banks trying to develop online technology are trying to fully develop thier ability to work with Quicken. And Quicken is somewhat a moving target with new versions every year. For online banking, Quicken is important, people are asking for full support from thier bank for Quicken a lot more than for Linux (or any other UNIX) support.

    So, if you really want online banking in Linux, what you need to do is petition Quicken to release a Linux version. Then, banks will support it, because they are supporting one product, not multiple OS's.

    I don't think there is an open source project (like gnucash) that quite supports "quicken protocol," nor do I believe Quicken will be likely to release a spec of thier protocol for someone to develop a free application that works as well as theres.

    I for one would buy Quicken for Linux, if it was out.

  • I agree, that would be better. But, you just set yourself up for a lot of work. Care to develop a RFC for your idea, submit it to ... Hmm WHO? (there are groups I'm sure, I personaly don't know though). Then you need to rally support, and constantly approch the whole banking community to promote the idea (which, BTW, with bankers, even getting thier attention for a lunch meeting will cost a lot of money).

    I just suggested we petition Quicken because it can probably be done much much much more quickly and easily. If your out for the best solution, your right, absolutely. I'll support you in idea, but I don't have the time or energy to help you do it. But I would be damn happy to see it ;-)

  • Fleet Homelink [fleet.com] works just fine with Lynx and also Netscape on Linux. I'm not a big fan of big banks, but they've got their online banking stuff done right.

    Also, x.com finance [x.com], which provides a no-fee checking account w/ Visa check card and ATM fee reimbursement if you keep a $100 minimum balance, works just fine with Lynx too. I have one of these accounts and keep a few hundred bucks in it for getting cash at ATM's where I'd be charged a fee. Fleet doesn't reimburse these fees, but x.com does.

  • After having being terribly annoyed at Bank of America who literally did not know how to execute a wire transfer, and various other banks with low rates or fees for talking to a human, I discovered First Internet Bank [firstib.com]. Their checking account pays 5% interest and has no minimum. They've also got free online bill pay and scanned images of canceled checks. Highly recommend them to anyone.
  • Ditto. Their interest rates rule and everything online is basic SSL and Javascript. It works under mozilla even with PSM.

    -l
  • I left TD a while ago and am now happily banking with Metro Credit Union [metrocu.com]. No problems with their web stuff with Netscape/Linux. Not too many branches though, so if you need to go in often then they may not be for you.
  • I Use netbank...still requires Java but it works on openbsd w/ netscape.

    Also, their fees are reasonable. www.netbank.com

    That being said, I wonder if there's a way to get these banks to comply, threatening them with a lawsuit over non-ADA (Disabilities act) compliance. Lynx is the only browser that does text-to-speech, which is what the blind will need.
    Therefore, banks need to be lynx compatible or
    get sued. Note that this is just idle rambling I am not a lawyer, etc.
  • But Java crashes all the Netscape browsers we've ever used under Linux here, regardless of Netscape version and regardless of RedHat release in use. (Yeah, we tried the fonts fix too, no change.)

    So, what are you guys doing under Linux to make Java work for you in a web browser?
  • Barclays has a really bad reputation for being willfully limited to Microsoft clients only, and of couruse they were running MS IIS servers. A colleague of mine spent months trying to get them to do something about it, but they were utterly unresponsive. Eventually he hacked the Id string in his Linux Netscape binary to make it pretend to be MS Internet Exploiter, and everything worked fine.

    Lloyds TSB is client-neutral, it seems. Their Verisign certificate is registered to their Unix group, which might explain it. On the other hand, when I first looked they were running Stronghold/Apache on Unix but now their secure service appears to have changed to use Netscape:

    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Server: Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3
    Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:59:47 GMT
    Content-type: text/html
    Last-modified: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:24:57 GMT

    Is that still a Unix version of Netscape server, or they gone over to the dark side and now run NT like on their port 80 service?
  • Barclays' (UK) Internet banking works fine for me from Linux and Netscape 4.7 -- it doesn't even use anything dodgy like Java.

    Cheers. I'll tell my friend to try again with the original unmodified browser before his Id hack. Perhaps Barclays did eventually take his comments into account.
  • I have found that USAA and Dreyfus (www.edreyfus.com) both have excellent web based services that work in unix. Dreyfus even uses an AS/400 for a webserver. :)

  • HSBC (Score:1)

    by aok ( 5389 )
    I've just started to use HSBC (Hong Kong-Shanghai
    Bank of Canada or something like that :)
    starting this summer now that I've graduated.

    The online-banking seems pretty good although I
    don't use it nearly as much as their NetTrader
    stuff. They both work without any problems with
    Netscape 4.7x under Linux.

    The NetTrader interface isn't as slick as the
    Internet-Banking counterpart (and I think TD
    Waterhouse has more features too) but it does what
    I need and more.

    My only real problem, although it is more amusing
    than really a problem is that when I do call them
    up that they answer in Cantonese (even though I
    specifically dialed the English number :) and then
    after speaking a bit in English, asking if I'd
    rather speak in Cantonese :) I wonder if they'd
    do that even if I dialed the Mandarin number...to
    ask if I'd rather speak in Cantonese heheheh :)

  • also... (Score:1)

    by aok ( 5389 )
    I guess I should also mention that (at least with
    the HSBC NetTrader site) that it uses cgi-bin,
    javascript, and frames.

    Connecting with a 128-bit browser is also
    required.

  • Blah. You shouldn't have felt embarassed; the service should've popped up a flag telling you your encryption wasn't up to snuff. Instead it just failed on you.

    The WFB site makes it pretty clear when you don't have strong enough encryption. They only require 40bit for everything but the Online Bill Pay.

    They're pretty quick to verify new browswers as well. I upgraded to a point release of Navigator (the day it was released) and found it wouldn't work on their site. I mailed them asking about it. They replied that they were working on making sure the browswer didn't have any major bugs. I tired it again a couple days later and it worked just fine. Seems like they've got all their ducks in a row

  • Often, you can just use something like junkbuster to report that you have the "desired" browser, and things will go well.

    This becomes a problem if the check is on a secure page, though, because I don't think junkbuster can proxy the SSL stuff... but I'm not sure. I ran into a similar problem at my previous employer.

    (I now work for linux-friendly SGI, so I don't have to worry about that silliness anymore!) :)

    ---

  • It is possible, and in my experience it can actually take more effort to make a web page that doesnt work on -most- architectures/browsers. What is it that really makes the page inaccessable for some browsers? It certainly isnt the real functionality of the page, the html. It's the pretty eyecandy stuff, mostly javascript, that doesnt really do anything for the page anyway.
    When i write web pages, I pride myself that i can make a visually pleasing experience, but more importantly have it be viewable by the most people. -That- to me is skillfull web authoring.
  • Wells Fargo works perfectly for me
  • I use Royal Bank [royalbank.com] and it works fine with FreeBSD, Linux and it is a Canadian bank.
  • Security First Network Bank [sfnb.com] works fine for me and I disable Java and Javascript. Images are only partially necessary; they have an image map toolbar once you log in. My two gripes have to do with their unnecessary 6 month password aging scheme and lack of progress feedback on snail mail deposits. But they are good otherwise. Get cash from gracery stores, because ATMs cost money after the first 5 (?) per month. Deposits have to be automatic deoposit or snail mail.

    --
  • I have been using SFNB for almost 2 years now and they've been wonderful. And I absolutely hate banks. But SFNB has been very good to me. (6% interest is great too!) They now offer 4% interest on checking accounts with balances over $1000. Only drawback is snail-mailing deposits. They also offer refunds on ATM fees.

    --Bob

  • I use Chase. Can't recommend them as a bank, seeing as they charge fees if you so much as breathe. But their online banking works perfectly fine with Netscape on *nix, though their servers are a bit on the slow side. And they're American, of course, so I don't know what good that does someone in Tronna.

    That said, give me a fucking break. The percentage of people running Linux on their desktop is somewhere south of 1%, and of those, I dare say half have access to a Windows or Mac system on a reglar basis. Because of the enormous risks involved, banking software is developed and updated very, very slowly and conservatively. Any feature change or bug fix goes through several levels of testing and typically needs sign-off from four or five people before it's allowed into production. Even for, say, a form-validation script.

    Sure, most web sites don't have platform-dependency problems (at least in regard to IE 4.x-5.x and Netscape 4.x). It's a shame they wrote such cranky code that it exposes the tiny incomatibilities between Netscape on Win32 and Netscape on *nix. All true.

    But how many customers does lack of Linux support chase away from any web site? I mean, really? I mean, there are profitable web-based services out there that don't even support Macs. And Macs account for something like ten times the number of web users than all Unixes combined.
  • Chase Bank is pretty good. (www.chase.com [chase.com])

    And I've heard that Fleet Bank works as well.
  • Hello fellow Canadian,

    Don't laugh, but the President's Choice Financial bank works like a charm, and they have 5% interest!!

    I'm not kidding, I make $20 interest in a month on the same cash that earns me a whopping $0.30 in my ScotiaBank account.

    NS/128-bit works fine, Konqueror looks like it would, but for a java/javascript issue (the only failing of Konqi is the javascript support..)

    Anyway, check it out. It's awesome. I know they don't do commercial accounts yet, but they will be soon.

    www.preschoicefinancial.com

    Cheers,

    Ben
  • If you don't like the service provided, just take your money and go elsewhere. Make a point where it hurts them most: their pocketbooks. They may not care about losing one small customers (banks really make money from business clients) but do not give them your business for below average service.

    My bank does not use any client-side scripting, so as long as I have a client w/ 128-bit encyrption, all is fine. Remember, friends don't let friends use client-side scripting.

    --weenie NT4 user: bite me!
  • I've been fine with TD's webbanking on netscape 4.05, 06, 08 (my current choice because it crashes the least on my box with nasty java/script sites) and .6 and .7 over the last year. Right up until about 2-3 weeks ago when suddenly something changed in their javascript and now I cant pay bills (thats it, everything else works). However, the billpaying is really the critical thing I need.

    I wrote them and asked whats up and got no reply.

    So I got all snotty-assed and mentioned that 3 companies that I am a majority stakeholder in (the ones I founded) put about $5M+ thru TD per year, so please get back to me. They then sent me some platitudes the like of which the poster mentioned.

    Bitching about yet another Microsoft-supporting cronie company (YAM$SCC?) on irc got me a slap from Blizzard: "use M17 silly!".

    And I did, and it worked great.

    So for now, til TD fixes things, I'll be using mozilla for my webbanking. Mebbe by the time they fix it Mozilla will be ready for primetime and I wont have to switch around. :)

    I hope they switch to CT's EasyWeb, its super fast compared to TDs overly flashy system and their ass-like JS overkill. Somehow I doubt their developpers are going to choose CT stuff over TD now legacy crap.

    Im glad this hit /. mebbe someone over at TD who has some power will actually *DO* something about it.

    How long til M$ starts PAYING banks and other businesses to setup M$-only-compatible systems
    on the net? Imagine no webbanking at all with Linux? Already Apple seems have some sort of alliance with M$ at least vs Linux - there's extremely limited QT availability for Linux (Xanim) and tons of .mov files I CANNOT watch.

    Will this become more prevalent? How many backroom bux are moving around supporting that kinda crap?

    -Math
  • I'm not trying to plug Wells Fargo, even though that is exactly what I am doing 8-), but I had a similiar problem with them in the past and called them up. They were quite civil and pointed out that the reason I couldn't connect was because I had switched to weak encryption, a side effect of upgrading to a newer version of SuSE.

    The technician had offered to give me a URL to download the latest Linux version of Netscape, but I declined. I was a little embarassed once I realized the failure was my fault, but none the less the service was admirable.

    I personally dump any company that does not want to support my needs on my OS of choice. I recommend you consider doing the same. Vote with your check book or in this case the whole account.

  • im with scotia bank, if you want to use online banking, you have to load up there propriatary windows authorization client to do so. They do offer HTTPS however knowone at the bank seems to know about it.

    My impression was that they'd just switched. Their website [scotiabank.ca] now only describes the ssl method, and the support people had no trouble getting me a password. You're right about the proprietary encryption filter though--it was obnoxious. I think the idea was to make sure everybody had 128 bit security back when you had to jump through hoops to get that version of netcape. So while I trust 56 bit ssl at least as much as the proprietary gadget they'd bought, their hearts may have been in the right place.

    I've also been impressed with the signup mechanism. You call, ask to sign up, get authenticating secrets verbally, then they stick you in a queue where a computer tells you your temporary password. That way no employee sees or hears what it is. You then login and change it. Semi-instant gratification. :)

    In any case, their ssl interface works fine under Linux/Netscape, probably because they avoid all the cute clientside scripting.

    In contrast, I recently opened an account with Bank of America [bankofamerica.com] in part because they claimed to use SSL. They're even using JSP, but login in from Linux/Netscape causes an internal server error. Ouch. They said they were aware of the issue and were working on a fix; we'll see what that means in the next couple of weeks.

    Another silly thing is that while you can sign up for BofA's online banking online, they snailmail you your login password, which seems an entirely unreasonable delay. It doesn't add anything to security either: searching someone's mail (after sniffing the application) is usually *easier* than tapping their phone.

  • The Royal Bank has a beautiful online banking system that I use in Windows, and in Linux. It even works in Mozilla, when crypto support is available. Yay Royal Bank. www.royalbank.com [royalbank.com]

  • Uh, yes. Maybe I didn't, since I pointed to the Royal Bank of Canada's web site, and since the question was posed by someone apparently looking for a bank to replace his Toronto Dominion Bank, another Canadian bank.

  • . They really couldn't care, plus the bank's systems are probably implemented by some coder who just got into the business for the money, doesn't probalby know much either, and he/they jsut don't want to bother.

    As opposed to a coder who got into the business to promote every platform under the sun at the expense of her client's wishes?

    -josh

  • Chances are that if it doesn't work with Netscape on Linux, there are lots of other problems with it. What about Opera users? What about user who use browsers with accessibility features? Thin clients? Old browser versions on Windows? People who have turned off JavaScript for security reasons?

    Online banking and other sites should work with JavaScript, CSS, and images turned off, and only with basic HTML. If not, the bank is doing something seriously wrong IMO, and they'll sooner or later lose a lot more than 1% of their customers.

  • Konqueror is a good OSS browser and was developed rapidly. Even M18 is not too bad, but it needs a bit more bug fixing (but, then, it's much more than a browser). The OSS movement doesn't have to be ashamed.
  • Actually, these are incompatibilities. I'm in exactly the same situation with TD, and have superficially investigated this annoyance. A JavaScript error occurs and appears to make Netscape think that the page never finishes loading, which prevents some 'page-loading' hook from being run (or something similar, it's been months). From there it cascades into an ugly ball of 'user not finished loading page, cannot allow action ...' type of problems. At least, that's one of them. Very annoying.

    -- Mishka

  • Canada Trust and TD are merging, so perhaps you might get access to the excellent Canada Trust on-line banking. I've never had any compatibility problems, they do everything server-side (the way it ought to be). The only browser problem I've had was when they decided to go from 40 bit to 128 bit ssl, and I had to upgrade my browser (whoopee.)

    Their on-line banking is also quite complete, I can pay all my bills, add companies (more companies than other banks), even do specialty stuff like change my address.

    I've been generally quite happy with Canada Trust since I moved my bank account there after getting mad at CIBC at the tender age of 5. I hope the merger doesn't ruin Canada Trust.

  • I've been with SFNB since a few months after they opened (in '97?) and have not a single complaint about them. They constantly give better service, better rates, and better features than anyone else. And I have never, ever, paid them a fee for ANYTHING! This shocks most of my friends, but to me I find it shocking that a bank would charge YOU for the privelege of loaning out YOUR money to others at higher interest rates.

    I was pleasantly surprised to see that SFNB seems to have implemented an ATM fee refund scheme as of about 6 months ago, too.

    I do wish they had a slightly better deposit system -- notification that they've recieved and are processing deposits would be nice. AS it is you just kinda wait for it to show up in your balance, wondering if they ever got it. So it's not for folks without direct deposit for their paychecks...

    ---------------------------------------------
  • No, they will be using TD Access.
  • That's why we have.... KONQUEROR!
  • I mentioned this to them, and apparently BeOS users have been complaining too. So, I suspect they are aware of this, and are making an overall compatible site. I tested from HP-UX and it works fine from there as well......

    Maybe if I get free time I'll do testing from IRIX and Solaris too.

  • I can answer to this (I'm a TD customer too) (Score:4)

    by Geek Boy ( 15178 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:41AM (#687260)
    I ran into this as well. They supported Linux for a very long time and then they decided to make some updates to the page to make it non-Linux compatible. It was REALLY stupid and I even called them and told them how to fix the page to make it work with Linux again, but they would hear nothing of it. I actually posted a comment to slashdot about this a couple of months ago in a story that had some remote links to this topic. I told TD support that I would post information all over the web about their treatment of people who didn't want to use Windows or MacOS. They actually told me to go out and buy Windows if I wanted to use their site!! I was really pissed off and managed to speak to the manager, who told me that they were developing a better site. She gave me access to this beta site, which actually does work, and I can verify that they now do support Linux. I guess enough people called to complain. They were ->- that close to losing me as a customer after 21 years, and with me, losing some serious commercial business too. Be patient. Within a month or two (hopefully), it will work again. The new site is much faster and more full-featured too.

    I know it's frustrating, but they know what it's all about now.

  • I thought the hole point of JS was client side scripting - it shouldn't matter what OS you use because it isn't compiled. Now there are differences in M$, Netscape (and I'm sure mozilla too), but if they designed the applications to work according to standards, this would not be a problem.

    There is a reason we want standards. Maybe you should request the bank support web standards and not filter clients based on the browser.

  • The blind have many more options than just text consoles. There have been speech digitizers that work with Windows and convert the text on web pages and in menus to speech.
  • Hopefully that will not change. One of the design decisions made very early on was that it should be usable by as many browsers as possible and should not rely on a specific browser. The whole idea was that it should be Internet banking not MS/IE or Netscape Banking. I was quite involved in the original design work and know that the whole design-team heavily backed that idea. I've now moved on but I know a great number of the original players are still there and I don't expect things to have changed much.

    It also helped that the design was done very early on before MS and Netscape really started botching things up. However making things as standards compliant as possible is sometimes alot harder than people realise and can really slow down initial roll-outs.
  • I do online banking (mainly watching to see when
    checks clear and the occasional 'crap, need more
    money in checking!' transfer) with my Wells Fargo
    account.

    It works just fine with Netscape 4.7x for Linux,
    even with Java and JavaScript off (which is how
    I prefer to use browsers).

    I even tried it using an HTTPS-enabled version of
    Lynx while SSH'ed into my ISP and, after tricking Wells Fargo's servers into thinking I was using a particular version of a different model browser (ie, Netscape 4.7 and not Lynx), it seemed to work just fine!

    I dunno if I'd do it too often because the site is harder to navigate using Lynx (sigh), but at least it works!

  • I second this recommendation. I use the Royal Bank with no difficulties on older netscape and netscape 6 for linux. Stay away from Scotiabank.
  • I have to agree with the earlier comments about smile.co.uk. When I first joined there were a couple of minor problems with their applet but they seem to have sorted them out quickly and without any fuss. I'd certainly recommend them to anyone in the UK, their java applet works exactly the same on windows and linux.
  • We talking about online "Web" banking... So, it should be pretty easy to avoid platform dependant stuff; and it would make more customers happy and wouldn't take longer to produce the same results.

    If you add to use their own software to do online banking with them, I would understand their point of view about not supporting Linux as "Yet another platform". But, when doing web stuff, you can do (almost) anything without proprietary extension for web banking (i.e. no need for Shockwave and similar products).

    Mario.
  • I've been using SFNB (Security First Network Bank -- http://www.sfnb.com) since 1997, and they are really, really good. No problems using the site from Netscape for Linux. They reimburse ATM charges, show JPEG images of cancelled checks, and answer support email very promptly. The only annoying thing is that they have no branches except for Atlanta, so if you want to make a deposit (other than direct dep. or wire transfer) you have to mail it, but that's hardly been a problem. -nate
  • this is awfuly distressing. I am a long time CT supporter, who was recently bought out by TD. CT has been a long time supporter of new/cool tech and "the right way to do it". for instance, when all the big banks came out with their own software to connect to their "PC Banking", Canada Trust beat them to the market by "PC Banking" over the web. makes sense to me.

    anyway, I hope cooler heads at Toronto Doominion pervail, and the merger uses Canada Trust's technology for their web stuff.

    wake up guys.

  • SFNB (Score:2)

    by bradsjm ( 22738 )
    I was with Security First since the early days and its still IMHO one of the best Internet banks out there in terms of functionality and costs. I know its now owned by the Royal Bank of Canada so Canadians can use it too.

    http://www.sfnb.com/ [sfnb.com]

    I'm now with CitiBank in the UK... very basic capabilities but it works (mostly). First-E (www.first-e.com) looks geek friendly (Java, PHP, etc.) but the security paranoia and the non-standard debit card aren't worth it.
  • I too encountered the problems he had, numerous emails to TD did nothing, I was polite and offered assistance to their MSCE grads doing the website on how to write cross platform code, they just kept telling me it should/might work soon.

    Well since they took months with no changes, turned me down for my mortgage anyways and were generally charging too much for too little I moved on!

    HSBC has good web banking, although they just started with it a while back and it's still maturing. A month after I signed up their site suddenly suffered from MSCE javascript code too, this time i couldn't even log in at all. So I email them letting them know this and that I'm rather pissed because this is why I left TD Bank, I even had to ask if it was maybe the same guy doing the pages and he'd been hired at HSBC to spite us :)

    HSBC were much more responsive to the errors however, they did fix them and I imagine they forced their coders to check the site out using Linux to make sure it worked, the offending javascript was still in the code but obviously fixed to work on all browsers.

    Ahh well, ya try and explain to these kids nowadays that client side code should be used sparingly but they've been brainwashed it seems.
  • Damn, finally a fix and it's too late cause I switched banks over the whole thing ... I figured that any coder who saw fit to use a javascript function to add a footer to a page was slightly screwy anyways :)

    It's like nobody has shown them server side includes or something .. course that NT stuff might have trouble with that ...
  • My experiences of online banking have been mixed to say the least...

    Barclays are currently on the third version of their client: initially it was a Windows executable, then a Windows-specific java applet (which took an age to load, particularly on the modem I had at the time), and they're currently using a standard-ish web interface which works perfectly well under Linux Netscape (albeit with almost unreadably small fonts). It's very frames-based though, so probably wouldn't work on a non-graphical browser.

    But are Barclays secure? Not really - they had a particularly bad moment earlier this year when they changed the server security and introduced a horrendous bug which meant that two customers who logged on at the same time would see each other's accounts. That iteration was rolled back, I've only stuck with them because I will will be moving out of the UK banking system soon anyway.

    Egg, on the other hand, only support Windows and Macs. Their pages do not work under Netscape 4.7x, presumably because of the same Jvascript problems quoted elsewhere. However, their site is perfectly usable under Netscape 6 PR2 - whether it's really a good idea to use such early software for secure applications is moot, but hey. None of my money has disappeared yet.

    Apparently Egg are about to revamp their site. I don't know what will happen then. Their attitude to security is also questionable, but as far as I know their site security hasn't been broken yet.

    --

  • I use CIBC, and their web banking works great in Linux. I've never tried, but it should work fine in Mac or Lynx - the only requirement is that the browser must support 128-bit SSL. That's a nice touch too, I find. Beyond SSL, it doesn't even require images - there's a few for the header and to make it a bit more visually appealing, but that's it.

    Now I don't know about any features that might be missing, or if the rest of CIBC's policies suit you, but the internet banking is certainly no problem - it's how I've paid all my bills for the past year.

    Peter
  • I've been quite happy with Canada Trusts web banking and it seems to work fine under Linux and Solaris.

    However, Canada Trust just merged with Toronto Dominion. With any luck, they'll both start using the Canada Trust web banking (EasyWeb).
  • They actually bought out Security First Network Bank some time ago, whose software they use. I've been using SFNB [sfnb.com]'s web banking for years and I really like it - 20 free electronic bill payments per month (uses CheckFree), interest bearing checking account, and a simple but very functional web site that should work on any browser.
  • The CIBC site works under Linux using Netscape 4.7. I haven't tried with Lynx yet. That would be interesting.

  • cibc (Score:1)

    by jrs ( 27486 )
    I'm happy with cibc's web banking www.pcbanking.cibc.com you can even "Test drive" it
  • Nope, The VanCity stuff (Rapport Interactive actually) is Java/JSP based. I know 'cause I was on the team that developed most of the VanCity home/web banking software.

    Most of the deployments I've seen have avoided breaking browser compatibility. It in use by over 40 credit unions in Canada as well as Citizens Bank ( http://www.citizensbank.ca/ [citizensbank.ca])

    Vince
    --

  • Just FYI, CIBC does require JavaScript.
  • I have a similar problem with my employer. Their timesheet is a client-side java application. When you pull up the webpage, depending on the platform you use (Solaris, Windows and Mac using IE or Netscape) some javascript (which also gets the previous info) displays the correct applet or embed tags. Unfortunately, the javascript does not check for linux.

    I sent an email to the webmaster explaining the problem (even providing links to the blackdown site, the output of my 'about:plugins' page, and a bunch of other information that would help take care of the matter). My response back was "Why dont you try using IE on linux and let me know if it works". This was the *webmaster* of a major IT contracting company!!! The cluelessness of some people amazes me. I have no problem giving away the name of the company.

    Signal Corporation.

    If anyone wants to contract through them and uses a desktop other than Windows, Mac, or Solaris, I *highly* suggest you think otherwise.
  • I've been using it for years on Netscape/Linux and more recently on Mozilla/Linux with PSM (albeit slow). I don't even *have* Windows at home. I don't know what kind of trouble you're having...

    I do know that if you have <128 bit SSL, or have JavaScript turned off, it won't work. Other than that, it's fine. I'd prefer not having the JavaScript, but I can't have everything.

    Now I only wish Konqueror could do it, I'll try it out again on Monday (KDE2 final release), and change the reported browser type if I have to. Konqueror let's you change it for specific websites, a very cool feature.

    As for using Lynx, etc, I don't even think you can get 128 bit SSL for it, just "export grade" SSL. I'm glad they're requiring 128.

    Besides, most Linux users I know use Netscape, (and SuSE 7.0 installs the 128 bit version by default) so the market for Lynx users is *extremely* small.

  • Geeks in banking apps (Score:4)

    by Penrif ( 33473 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:26AM (#687288) Homepage
    As someone who has been there, I can say pretty safely that the folks coding up those web banking sites don't like to deviate from Microsoft too much, and it's for an interesting reason: the product sells better to non-tech types when you can say it's a Microsoft tech. Floored me when I first heard that, but I suppose some people haven't figured out that Microsoft != secure. As far as they're concerned, Microsoft products (ASP, IIS, etc) make for a quick rollout that has good security and customers are comfortable with. I'd say two of those are right...
  • I currently use the Royal Bank of Canada [royalbank.ca] for my online banking needs. My wife uses is from our Windows box at home using IE and Netscape, and I use it from my Linux box at work using Netscape, both perfectly fine.

    Now, whether or not it will work with a text-based browser I don't know... I suppose that so long as your browser can make HTTPS connections you would be fine, as they don't appear to use javascript.

    The fee is a little high; something like CDN$4 per month, plus there might be some transaction fees. But, if you sign up for telephone banking, you also get the online banking included, I believe.

    shane.

  • Dunno about Canada, but in the USA you can get a lot of sites' management's attention really fast by asking about disabled access. Tell 'em you depend on, say, Lynx for speech-to-text.

    The reason seems to be that unlike the random noncommercial or advertising sites, banks live under Federal regs give make disabled access regulations teeth.
  • if you could show me 5 sites that have valid, strict HTML of any version, or XHTML, I would be impressed.

    Does w3c-valid HTML/Transitional count? If so, I hereby take up the challenge! Here goes:

  • E*Trade Bank (Score:3)

    by vectro ( 54263 ) <vectro@pipeline.com> on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:44AM (#687306)
    Don't think about using their investment stuff, it sucks. But the bank is actually a different company (used to be telebank) that E*Trade bought. They have very high interest rates and the pages work with Lynx. I've been very pleased.

    Just don't get me started about their brokerage accounts.
  • My bank, Canada Trust, which recently merged with TD, offers web banking. It works fine in Netscape as long as you have 128bit encryption.
  • I've been using NetBank and UsaBancShares for about a year now and both seem to work find under linux. For a while, you had to use a different link to the login page for NetBank, but that was fixed (after I complained). I'm not sure whether NetBank did something or if a new version of Netscape fixed it. I did have a general problem logging into UsaBancShares for a couple of days at some point. But that was both windows and linux, if it makes you feel any better
  • What about the whole generation of web-browsing devices that are coming out that _aren't_ desktop computers running Windows? For example, there's the "Internet Appliances", like our friends at Netpliance, the Compaq i-paq, and a whole bunch of competitors. I'm sure that web browsers in cars are coming soon, but they won't be running Internet Explorer, nor will they be running a desktop version of Windows. I think that there's an interesting chicken-and-egg problem here -- if not enough web sites are usable from standards compliant (but not Microsoft) browsers, these internet appliances are doomed to failure. However, without a large base of these clients, few web sites will be willing to "port" their code to more portable HTML.

  • Security..?!? (Score:3)

    by Lanir ( 97918 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @11:12AM (#687333)
    Heya. I've read much of the above commentary and no one seems to've hit this part of things so I will.
    Basic point: No online banking scheme is secure.
    Sub-point: Some are more secure than others.

    If your bank is not using SSL for online banking, stop right now and save yourself some trouble. Call them up and make sure that web access to your account is completely disabled. Without a lot of checking (which would be more of a pain in the ass than solving your problem -while- using your old bank... details below), you aren't likely to know whether internet traffic to your bank is properly handled and filtered or if there's another host at their end which can packet sniff. If they're just a colo or a virtual host on someone's webfarm, anyone else with an account on the same net can get curious.
    If they use SSL, you're still not guaranteed security but it's at least not a completely trivial thing to get your account information. Then you get into OS security and how intelligent the hosting ISP -really- is when it comes to filtering at their routers. I've seen some that are. I've seen none that are vehemently pro-active about it. I'm fairly certain that many NT/Lucent shops out there are content to merely keep the frequency of reboots as low as possible. Sometimes a customer will want to keep using a piece of software that is dependant upon an outdated version of an OS (read: as secure as swiss cheese). That's where you really get into the necessity for filtering at the routers so that only the traffic that's absolutely necessary gets through.
    Other posters have noted that there are protocols which are quite well suited for everything that could be needed for a (reasonably) secure and usable online banking transaction. You seem to understand the JavaScript used by this bank. If you telnet in to the server handling these transactions (and hopefully need to authenticate yourself via SSL) you can probably manually input any function you wish to call. I've not had personal experience with it, but I believe C-Kermit compiled with OpenSSL support will allow you to pull this off. It's all just bits in the end, and most of the time it's even ASCII. I've used similar methods to deal with mail via pop3 (and to a lesser extent smtp) for years. I didn't have a home base to read and save email onto, so learning a bit of the protocol was much easier than constantly installing and deleting mail clients. We don't need no stinking national ISP's! =)

    Hope this helps some...
    Lanir
  • Lynx Version 2.8.3rel.1 (23 Apr 2000) worked well with the Royal's site. I hate Canada's big banks, but I feel a tiny bit better about the Royal after this.
  • I use the Bank of Montreal. They work with NS on Linux, but they do insist on doing lots of stuff with Java. (sigh), so there is a risk that the same problem could crop up here, as well.

    It just hasn't ... so far (knock on fake wood laminate).
    `ø,,ø`ø,,ø!

  • If you think you know the problem, can you point them to a fix??? This might make it more likely that they'll do something about the problem.
    `ø,,ø`ø,,ø!
  • Glitz may win customers for a Developer, but it's not necessarily going to win customers for the bank. Lots of people still use modems. Something which loads fast and runs stable is going to be well liked.
    If you can make it look good too, that's a big bonus, but not the necessity.

    Ultimately, however, this pigheadedness is going to cost them. Bank of Montreal has announced wireless support ... What's tha chance that you're really gonna want to run JavaScript on a Palm, or your cellphone??

    Sooner or later they'll figure out that simple, portable code is the way to support everything that's going to be out there, a few years from now. Then they'll have to play catchup with the banks that did proper design work from the start.
    `ø,,ø`ø,,ø!

  • That's funny, I don't remember ever getting spam from them. Thanks for the info, though.

  • Citibank (Score:5)

    by friedo ( 112163 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:21AM (#687345) Homepage
    I have found that Citibank web banking works excellently with Netscape on Linux, Netscape and IE on Mac, and Netscape and IE on Windows.

  • UBOC (Score:3)

    by small_dick ( 127697 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:39AM (#687352)
    Union Bank of California has decent online banking. Their stuff works fine with any browser.

    Doesn't do you much good if you aren't in California, and Toronto ain't.

    There is an increasing presence of "ActiveX" controls (I think that's what they are) on web pages -- they simply will not work with non-MS products.

    It really is a shame to see the internet, paid for with taxes, much of it built for free in spare time, by fairly selfless people, as a open and standards compliant means of communication, get bastardized by the scum at microsoft.

    But I completely agree that if you can find another bank that has employees with enough skill to make their web presence platform neutral, go for it.

    Make sure you let the previous bank know why you left.
  • (Warning! Incendiary and overly-dramatic comments below!)
    Web based banking over ssl, and downloading transactions to a personal finance app are different subjects that should be considered separately--I don't see that going on in this discussion. My experience is that most of the major banks that I would choose from to handle my accounts, already do web-based online banking just fine. Looking at the comments here I see that there are a few exceptions in the world. But there is an EASY solution to this problem: don't bank with these fuckhead companies and be sure to tell them why you're withdrawing all your money.

    That leaves the second problem: none of the banks, Netscape friendly or otherwise, currently allow direct, online banking from your personal finance app -unless it is Quicken or Money on Mac or Windows. Currently all banks screw over Linux/BSD/SOlaris/etc. users. And also they screw over the many Macintosh users who have sworn to never be reamed by Intuit again like they were by the Y2K bug in Quicken for Mac. Mac being a Y2K safe platform, this failure was just an intolerable example of shoddiness, and I certainly understand a Mac user vowing never to buy an Intuit product again.

    It has also not yet been said that there's NO GOOD REASON for this exclusiveness and active discrimination. The data format that direct online banking uses is Open and documented. It's called OFX. You can look it up and build your own client for it.
    And there is ALSO a Java application available right now to download and enter your OFX formatted data to your machine regardless of whether you use Windows, Mac, Linux, *BSD, Solaris or any other OS with a upto date JAVA VM. It's called Moneydance --specifically the 3.0ALPHA version.

    It's not in the regular download area yet for Moneydance at www.seanreilley.com/moneydance. You have to ask for it, but it does exist and I suspect its ALPLHA status has mainly to do with the refusal of the banks to connect to their online servers. You will also have to pay 25 dollars to enable the OFX banking features it has. Otherwise you can use it free of charge.

    It is this refusal by the banks to allow non-Intuit non-MS clients to connect that has to be focussed on and overcome. A FTC investigation into cartel style collusion between Intuit and the banks might not be too wacky of an idea at some point. ALways remember this--YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER! And you are NOT asking them to do something special for you.

    PLease contact your bank's online banking dept. (that little button that says "contact us") and request that Moneydance be allowed to connect to their servers-whether you actually plan to buy the fully function Moneydance 3 or not. There is no other way yet availble for you to do direct online banking from Linux or BSD and if they are blocking a closed source commercial Java app that is OFX compliant they will certainly block GnuCash when/if OFX support is added to it. You don't get your rights by always being polite and non-confrontational. It can be easy to forget that movements like the civil rights push in the 60s pissed off and upset a lot of semi-well meaning white people who were not overtly racist and didn't actively support apartheid laws and parties. We have rushed to smoothe over the rougher edges in our cultural memory, but if you look back at the documents of the civil rights era, you can see that civil rights were not achieved by saintly black people sending in a few well-written, poignant essays into their local newspapers editorial section and parading quietly and dispersing when told to by the police. Sometimes you do have to get in their faces and demand fair and equal treatment.

  • Too bad it is not a US bank... (Score:3)

    by ravi_n ( 175591 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @05:58PM (#687377)
    In the US, if you couldn't do your banking with lynx on a text console I think the bank could be sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act. As I recall, the only browsers that blind people can reasonably use are text-based browsers (through some form of text-to-speech conversion). AOL had some trouble over this within the last year or two (they settled by agreeing to spend money on developing interfaces for the blind, IIRC) and a bank is a "public accommodation" that should be subject to the ADA. If there are similar laws in Canada, pointing this out might do the trick.
  • Summit bank works quite well on all the platforms I've tried. In addition, their support staff is intelligent and friendly.

  • Having lived the frustration of dealing with all the bugs of Netscape, I sympathize with the bank. I know that I finally gave up and barely tested under Netscape for Windows, much less Netscape for any other operating system.

    Instead of blaming the bank (and anyone who refuses to deal with crap software), how about if the Unix world finally writes a decent browser? And that may or may not be Mozilla ("may not" seems more likely based on what I've seen so far). The browser issue is making a laughingstock of the whole OSS movement ("heck, they can't even write a decent browser").


    --

  • I don't know what system you're using, but for me, I use TD Access Web to do all my web banking for Toronto Dominion, and I haven't booted to Windows in months!!!! Netscape 4.73 128bit for Linux. But I presume anything that'll do heavy encryption should suffice. This is leaps and bounds above TD's old system which was a Windows application that dialed up through a modem, which they used about a year and a half ago if I remember correctly. I love TD Access Web!!!

  • The Good Old WWW (Score:3)

    by imadork ( 226897 ) on Saturday October 21, 2000 @08:29AM (#687411) Homepage

    Does onybody remember when the Web was supposed to be the thing that made OS irrelevant, the thing that was supposed to be platform-independant?

    Doesn't the W3C release standards to promote this effect?

    And doesn't MS and Netscape blatently ignore these standards (specifically to create a platform-dependant experience, in the case of MS a Windows-dependant experience...)

    I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I lay the blame for ruining the interoperability of the web squarely on the major browser writers.

    Who would have thought that Free (as in beer) software from companies with an agenda could do so much damage?

  • Debian failed with a misuse of a FONT tag that is not supposed to be in HTML 4.0.

    anybrowser.org failed with a misues of a CENTER tag that is not supposed to be in HTML 4.0

    Your homepage was OK.

    Microsoft wasn't even close, but generated hundreds of errors and warnings.

    Cambridge University was great! No complaints at all.
    ________________

  • most large corporations, banks, etc. The problem is that most of the world out there doesn't know much about an operating system, let alone that there are so many types out there. They just implement what most of their clients will use.

    The total number of non Windows using clients that bank has is probably very small. They really couldn't care, plus the bank's systems are probably implemented by some coder who just got into the business for the money, doesn't probalby know much either, and he/they jsut don't want to bother. They did what the book told them for implementing this stuff, and that's enough.

    It's really bad for free OS people, but what can you do? Joe Schmoe out there doesn't care about what OS he uses.
  • I can't stand banks or banking, but signing up for Bank of Montreal's online banking has been the single best banking decision I've ever made. It works in Linux Netscape with no problems, as long as you have the 128-bit encrypted version.I believe it is integrated with MBANX, their dedicated online bank subsidiary.

    I like how easy it is to pay all of my bills! I don't have to leave the house! I can stay in and keep being a computer geek! Ya!

    Shifter

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