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Music Media

Is MiniDisc Dead? 30

Posted by Cliff from the evolutionary-dead-ends-in-computer-media dept.
dd5299 asks: "Is MiniDisc dead? This article in ZDNet grumbles about Sony dragging their feet with MD2 (650MB vs. the old 120MB). So, what is the future of MD? Sharp has started making MD players with PC Links , and now portable MD players are as low as $50. So, longterm, is MD dead?"
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Is MiniDisc Dead? More

Is MiniDisc Dead?

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  • MD could be a great media for MP3 data (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I own a portable MD recorder and a deck with high speed CD to MD recording. It's really a shame that Sony hasn't worked on to improve the technology.

    It really isn't hard to record data on an MD (there's MD data out there)....and adding an MP3 codec to it also shouldn't be difficult....the more difficult step is improving the recording speed. My biggest gripe with MD is that most recorders can only record in real time (1X). I own a sony deck that does 4x CD to MD dubbing, but its only CD to MD....optical IN is still 1X

    For me the ideal portable device would be something like a portable MD recorder that could read/edit/erase/write ATRAC as well as MP3 data and record at something like 8x digitally via USB or something similar. The best thing about MD is that it fits 140 megs and costs 2 bucks (or even less)....how much you think a 128meg memory stick goes for?

    Nothing out there now beats the portability/affordability of having an MD with MP3 data like that...the closest thing are those MP3 CD players but they are too big and CDs can get scratched. They lack greatly in sound quality and none of them show the title of the mp3. You also can't erase/edit/record easily like you can do with MD now.

    Supposedly there's a bunch of legal issues why companies like sony can't make something like that...computer recording is dealt with differently than consumer based products...MD had to have the SCMS (copy protection) from day one...something that CD writers don't need to have since they're classified as data recording, not consumer music recording.

    Maybe by letting normal data be stored on an MD and label it as a computer storage device, then they'll be able to get around this...maybe.

  • No. (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    It feels fine. It's going to take a walk now...

    Is CD dead? No, we have CD *and* DVD.

    Is MD dead? No, we'll have MD *and* MD2.

    Heck, I stil have 360k floppies and 100MB Zip disks and MFM HD's...

    A friend of mine still watches movies on LD and CED; (a CD is sorta like a 'video record') those formats are massively more dead than MD will be for a while.

    Is Ask Slashdot dead? Yeah, probably. :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Re:No. (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Dude, punk isn't dead; it's healthier than it's been for a while!

    By your reasoning, you could argue that Unix and Linux were dead for a long time before they were ever alive; I can only hope that MacOS is dead too. :)

    Does MiniDisc specify a compression format? The big mistake Sony always makes is making their stuff proprietary; then, the entire industry develops alternatives. But when it does pay off for Sony, it pays off big (like the PlayStation).
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • I own an RZ-50 and love it. But when I use it, I get a lot of funny looks, and a lot of people say "hey, what's that thing, some kind of mp3 player?" For reference, this is in the middle od the U.S., around Indiana, where the ape-descended inhabitants are so amazingly technologically primitive that they still think digital watches are a neat idea.

    I like the media. It's durable, and you can fit several in a pocket with no troubles. I often use my recorder to bootleg concerts at local venues (and sometimes it gives me a chance to talk with the artists, too.) Nothing beats it for quality, ease of use, and recording time. And if I could have stored data on it, well...

    Anyway, I cast my vote as Not Dead. Probably very close, but Not Dead.

  • They're not made in any sort of volume any more, but have found a niche market in small 4-track recorders.

    What killed them for general use was the cost and speed. The MO-using MiniDisc didn't stand a chance against the cheap and quick iomega Zip drives. MD Data media wasn't cheap then and it still isn't now - although the tech is the same and the data drives would usually play audio MDs, the MD Data discs were different - and still sell for 6-7ukp (10-11usd) each.
  • You don't see many pre-recorded MDs, but no-one buys them anyway (when a blank MD is less than a pound, why not just buy the CD and record it?).

    Quite. Pre-rec MD for 14ukp, pre-rec CD for 11ukp, MD blank for 1ukp and it doesn't add up :) Now if they were pitched at the same kind of price as tapes (albums for 7-8ukp) they'd do a lot better.

    I still see pre-recs quite a bit in the larger music stores, but I've never seen anyone buy one (or even anyone else looking at the display..)

  • What I don't get; how come nobody pushed the MD as the new standard for a cheap, removable media. We were lauging at 1.44 mb in '95. 120 mb would have been excellent.

    I know there is an spec. for a MD-data format, but the URL slips me.

    -bo
  • Can't remember seeing any ads for them recently in the UK (there was a barrage of them one time), hardly ever see them in shops here.

    I'd guess that they are going to die out as they haven't got a big enough market, and there will be better things coming along.

    But then what do I know, I'm just posting cos the article looked so lonely all on its own here.

  • MD is an easy format to perform copying (from A to B), is instant on, and sound quality is fabulous; MP3s still require ripping CDs to PC + consequent storage space, then transferring to device (A to B to C) and sound quality can vary. For the mass, the choice is MD in ease of use. (Another thing that bothers me is the idea of having an enormous number of songs in a single device with a poor interface to access them; I don't generally listen to 12 hours of music at a stretch anyway).

    A separate issue is how poorly MD technology has been marketed. In Japan they are all over the place, in the US they are exotic, no so sure about Continental Europe. I figure there must be something behind it. Could it be pressure from the recording companies? I remember the whole mess around cassette tapes and such.

  • For short term portable listening, I think it is pretty dead. MP3 players are lighter, easier to load music onto and there are lots of them to choose from. The only problem is that the media costs a lot. If you want to listen to a lot of different music, you either spend a lot of money on media, or you copy the music often. For the common /.er copying often is just fine. However, not everyone sits down at their PC several times a day. That is one thing that keeps it alive, no need for a PC.

    The thing I love about my MZ-R90 is being able to take my player on a trip with a handful of discs and know that I'll be entertained the whole time. I'm not entertained for more than a few hours with 32 or 64MB of MP3s. My rechargeable NiMH battery lasts at least 12 hours, and I have two, so battery life has never been an issue for me.

    The thing that has kept me buying Minidisc equipment has been the superb portable recording ability. There is nothing which is so small which can record for so long and sound so good. It is great for recording all kinds of live music. My only complaint is switching discs. But that time is lower now because my player can begin recording before the disc is even spinning.

    Finally, there's always a lot of activity at minidisc.org [minidisc.org].

  • sony sells nice MD player/recorders w/ usb hookups now, and you can record out of the jacks on your sound card other wise. might be windows only software to use it though, not sure. Mines on order.
  • If sony were to stop letting their content production department run thier corperation, they would realize that Minidiscs are awesome. What other portable player fits 74 miniutes on a versilile (have you ever thrown a flash card accross the room,) ans cheap (about $2.) There is one problem with these discs, there is no way to do a direct transfer from your computer to them. I would be in hog heaven if I could stick a minidisc in my computer, drag some MP3's onto it, and leave. Instead, you have to play the MP3's from your computer, and record them on your MD. This sux, and could be remidied by such a trivial little device.

    Sony! Wake up!!!

    --Alex the (mad @ sony) Fishman
  • From the rumours I've heard, MD is big in other parts of the world, especially Asia. Just because it's slow to catch on in North America doesn't mean it's dead -- most new formats do take a while, and MD is only 8 or 9 years old. Actually, I've been starting to hear a lot more about MD in the past few months.

    MP3 players seem like more of a "geek" think, at least for now. (I even wonder if the general public is starting to think that MP3==evil as a result of all the negative publicity Napster gets on the news.) You hear alot more about MP3 in a place like this, but taking a look at "Real Life", I know 4 people with MD players, but don't know anyone with an MP3 player. (Of course, that's hardly a representative sample.)

    I do agree that Sony doesn't seem to be acting as if they want the format to succeed...
  • Yup, I second this. Here in the UK you can now buy blank MDs in most places you can buy blank tapes. You don't see many pre-recorded MDs, but no-one buys them anyway (when a blank MD is less than a pound, why not just buy the CD and record it?).

    --

  • Disco SUX.
    Punk is not Dead. It just smells that way.
    Goth is not dead (But it wishes it was.)

    Ok about the real subject. I have never seen a mini-disk player. I do not know anyone who has. That to me is dead.

    To me the whole thing is like laser disks & Beta...better idea, Better Tech....But bad marketing.....Of couse some people point out that a DVD is just a cheap laserdisk.....

  • I think the problem with MD sales in the US is due to the marketing focus and the timing of it. When the MD's first came out,they were marketed like they were going to replace CD's,and people were put off by having another format. Recently,the timing has been bad because the latest marketing push came at the same time CD burners were coming down in price. I think if Sony had marketed these as cassette tape replacements in the first place,they would be commonplace today. The MD's are as cheap or cheaper,have better sound quality,and have cool extras like the track name display and editing functions.

    I purchased an MD bundle(home deck and portable player) back in Dec '98 because I wanted something to take on my deployment to the Gulf that would give me the most music with the least space. At the time,there weren't any hard drive equipped MP3 players and the MD seemed to be the best choice. I love my MD's,but now that I have a CD burner,I'm keeping an eye on those new discmans that play MP3 CD's. They hold enough music that I could take my entire collection with me. But I'm going to wait for the big names(Sony,Sharp,etc) to put out some higher-quality versions.

    And plus,there's just something I *like* about MD's. I can't put my finger on it,but there's just something about them that appeals to me.
  • By that reasoning punk's not dead either.

    (Rah rah rah!)

    When things fade away and aren't in general use, interest in the product goes below a certain level, then it's safe to say it's deady dead dead.

    DVD provides a different purpose to CD, it's not a competing medium. And i'm sure you still have 360k floppies, maybe 8 tracks, and your friends wallow in LD and CED with genuine Nitch&eacuten speakers but they're dead.

    Yes, minidisc is dead. It holds more than MP3, and most minidisc players have more endurance than competing digital players, but it never really breached into mainstream and will only further fade in obscurity. Sony fucked up. Generic digital players of Mp3 and Ogg (and wav, ack) where the internal storage medium doesn't matter are where it's at and that won't change.

    I bet all my earthly belongings on it.

  • No, Unix and Linux have hype and new products and are being developed.

    Minidisk is stagnant and has been so for a few years.

    ps. Minidisk has a format, yes.

    ps2. Disco sucks. Punk is dead. Goth is dead. Nyah!

  • The mp3 player came around too soon after the MiniDisc so picked up one of the first RIOs instead. With all the MP3s I could download, I never had a reason to use the mini. What are the PROs and CONs of each platform, maybe that will tell us if the mini is dead or is doomed in the long run.

  • if you ask a regular slashdot reading nerd who probably has gigabytes of mp3s on their computer they will tell you how minidiscs are dead. but i for one love minidiscs, they are so easy to record and edit, and you keep the good digital quality when recording a cd to put in my car. they still offer a much better option to mp3s for portable players. when i take my portable minidisc player somewhere i take a few extra discs to listen to so it's a piece of piss to just swap discs. but even good mp3 players have just 64 megs ram, which is enough for 1 album on shit quality 128kbps, and then extra memory cards are just a bit of a rip off.


    ---
  • There are MD players around (check out Sony) but they are expensive (more so than a zip) but the media is much cheaper. Nobody other than SOny sold the drives and they screwed up their marketing strategy and the way the device was sold (i.e., SCSI only)
  • Is Minidisc dead?

    Well, perhaps in the States it is, but in the UK it's doing very nicely thank you. I know a great many people with minidisc players and, er, none with MP3 players. Minidisc offers superb sound quality, portability, long battery life and most importantly economical storage media.

    I bought a portable minidisc player/recorder just before leaving home for a three month trip. I've got 12 minidiscs with me, the equivalent of about 700 megs of MP3s, all in one pocket of my backpack. OK it's a little bulkier than flash rom cards, but it was also far cheaper (20 dollars US roughly for the lot, compared with about 1000 for that much ROM space).

    As for getting MP3 onto minidisc? Burn the MP3 to a CD-RW then copy the CD-RW data onto minidisc, result? Digital copy.

    Minidisc is not a perfect medium, 1x copying is a royal pain in the behind, and the lack of a direct PC link really is irritating, but for portability, cheap storage media and quality of sound I have yet to see anything that can touch it. MP3 players are nice toys, but until I can get one that supports more than an album or two of storage I'll pass.
  • MP3 Player: $250cdn for a player only
    Memory card(s): $199 for 96mb (96 minutes)

    Minidisc *Recorder*: $299cdn with digital input, portable sized

    Minidiscs: $4 for 76 minute re-recordable blank.

    You tell me if it's dead!!!

    Personally, I have a minidisc recorder walkman, a minidisc player/radio walkman (my gf's), a minidisc car radio ($250cdn) and use digital outs from my CD and sound card to record onto the handheld.

    It's also *great* for bootlegs 'cause it's small and easy to hide.

    mindslip
  • I don't care if no one else in the US uses minidisc, right now the media is cheap, even in places like Radio Shack, and I can import portables from Japan. If no one else wants to be sensible about portable media, that's fine. MD has a large enough user base that it will never die completely, even if it does remain a niche market.
  • One of the first RIOs... 16 or 32 mb? That's what, 4 or 8 songs? I can't see how that compares versus MD where changing and carrying media, though not perfect, makes life a lot better...

  • I think the main reason that MD didn't catch on so much in the US is that it was originally billed as a CD replacement when it first came out, at least that's the way I remember it. Trouble is, it hit around the time CDs were really taking off, so who wants to buy new format a year later? Finally, now, MD is being pushed as what it ought to be, the digital equivalent of a cassette tape. Recording CDs to MD should be as natural a pair as vinyl to cassette.

    About six months ago I was looking at MiniDisc v. mp3 player, and went with the MD. For one, the pocket recorder is a great idea, can use it for live music, lectures, etc. And compared to an mp3 player, you get much more music media per $ (Though maybe not per cubic inch.) Personally, I won't consider the format dead until I can't buy blanks anymore. Just because you can't buy pre-made albums anymore doesn't mean you can't roll your own.

  • One reason that I like my MD player is it's ability to record just like a tape recorder. I have a small band and I found that the minidisk is the best way to record while playing and be able to listen to what we did as quickly and clearly as possible. Tape recorders are good, but they can only record/play so much before their quality degrades to the point where the sound is crap. I haven't played with any mp3 players that have microphone recording capabilities, I don't doubt their quality, but for the cost of memory cards I don't think it would be worth it.

  • Re:Not Completely (Score:3)

    by Robert S Gormley ( 24559 ) <robert@seabreeze.asn.au> on Sunday November 05, 2000 @07:40PM (#648770) Homepage
    I'd disagree with your first paragraph, MiniDisc players are sprouting up more and more often here (in Australia). MP3 players are a *highly* niche market - i.e. the geek/trendset... and even they enjoy MD.

    I agree with the second paragraph, I have an MZ-R90 and LOVE it... I had a Sharp sideloader before and wasn't hugely impressed (woe me for not trying it) - too bulky. But an MZ-R90 with ten MDs fits easily into a bumbag.

    Music quality is good. Excellent in fact, especially recorded via optical cable. And I have *NEVER* heard my MD skip, for those who say "But MP3s don't skip"... though my old Discman wish "Anti Shock" would skip when running to change platforms at the station...

    In general, I don't think it's dead at all. I think it's growing.

  • One reason that I like my MD player is it's ability to record just like a tape recorder. I have a small band and I found that the minidisk is the best way to record while playing and be able to listen to what we did as quickly and clearly as possible.
    Agreed! Minidisks are great for recording live music. I think if nothing else, it will have a niche amoung amateur and semi-professional musicians, and "tapers" (people who tape live shows, a culture that grew up around the Grateful Dead but lives on amoung fans of "jam bands").

  • Depends where you are... (Score:4)

    by Qube ( 17569 ) on Sunday November 05, 2000 @02:17AM (#648772)

    In the US, maybe - there seems to be a big gap between the techies (who buy computer CD-R drives and MP3 players) and everyone else (who stick with tape and the odd bought CD). Not a lot in between, so the average music fan has to go one way or the other.

    In the UK, I'm constantly surprised by "normal" non-tech people who mention that they use MD. It's a great format for home recording (especially from CD, or for archiving old vinyls) and it's significantly easier to use than consumer CD-R, and even tape in many respects. Put in a MD, hit "sync rec", play the CD.

    More significantly, this stuff is fairly cheap over here even in the high-street shops. Portable recorders (all you need to get started) are sold from 99ukp up, and many mini-systems over 200ukp come with a MD deck built-in. Cool products like the MXD-D3 help a lot too - it's a CD/MD deck that's well priced and can record at 4x.

    What made me switch properly though was when I came to replace my car stereo. I didn't like the thought of constantly burning CDs to use in the car (or risking my bought ones in there, both from a scratching and theft point of view), hate tape and couldn't afford an empeg [empeg.com]. So I bought a Sony MDX-C6500R and it's fantistic. Cost 160ukp (about 10 more than the CD equivalent), and I just keep a dozen or so recordings in my the door pocket, no hassle.

    Maybe it's a 'net access thing (we're only just getting decent unmetered services here) so less music is downloaded and people copy from their friends instead. But I have my entire CD collection (over 200 albums) ripped to MP3 (plus about 20gig downloaded), I own a computer CD-R drive and I still found MD the best solution. Nothing else comes close to it's portability, durability and general convenience.

    Data was always a non-starter - Zip/LS120 were always cheaper and quicker and a 650mb format wouldn't stand a chance against CDR/W. I just think of it as a music format, and it's likely it'll stay like that.

    Maybe it'll die in the US, but despite the slow start it's thriving everywhere else. I can even buy blanks in my small local supermarket!

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