Bridging The Language Gap In Multi-Lingual Workplaces? 24
raestarr asks: "I work in a predominantly French speaking company here in Silicon Valley and am having a difficult time conversing with my counterparts. I speak English, some German and some French, but for anyone that has ever tried to learn a language knows, it is difficult to understand a native speaker. The main problem I have is that we have had more than a couple of e-mails asking everyone to speak English in the office to no avail and I have begun to feel isolated in what should be an exciting company to be a part of, due to the lack of communication between the English speakers and the French speakers. So I guess my question to the Slashdot community is this, has anyone else ever been in this situation and how was it resolved (or was it)?"
Everyone knows... (Score:3)
Language problems (Score:1)
Have keg parties after work (Score:1)
It just not going to work in a forced workplace environment.
Not Unusual (Score:3)
The law's are pretty basic - in companies where there are 50 or more employees French is the language. Only after lots of paperwork & pressure can one have a chance at an exemption and even then there has to be a program for francicization [sp?].
Everything has to be done or availiable in French (this includes software!) - all other languages are officially of secondary importance. Yes this is not popular amongst many folks , I'm not debating it, I'm just reporting it.
Socially things are much simpler. Generally conversations are held in whatever language the majority of the participants are comfortable in. Should someone in the conversation (and this means not only those talking but those expected to be included in the listening) not speak a language folks will try to avoid their non-language. Sometimes this is not possible/practicable so a pal will be helpful and try to keep the non-lingual up to speed on the parts of the conversation they're not getting. Occasionially even that's not possible (everyone is too involved, it too hard to translate & keep up, etc.) so one has to infer what is being said, ask the occasionial question, rely on the goodwill of others and assume they'll bring you back into the conversation when appropriate.
This is a fairly well established set of customs anywhere there are multiple languages in usuage, either in the community or in the workplace. It may be confusing & off-putting to most US'ers who expect a unilingual environment but it's pretty much to be expected in most of the world.
What can you do as an lingual-outsider in your office? First politely ask folks to remember that you don't speak their language & to please try and include you. Generally your making a strong effort to learn the predominant language will make this a friendly request and not an imperialist one.
Second understand that to your co-workers this is their mother-tongue and it can be tiring to work in a second language. While work-related stuff may need to be translated the quick comment-in-passing is often just not worth the effort to these folks, or it may not even make sense if translated (ever try to explain a bit of US word-play or pop-culture-trivia to a non-native? It works the same way for them to you.)
Unfortunately oftentimes being left out of this chat-'n-joke byplay can make one feel like an outsider, or distrustful of what was being said; but honestly it is unrealistic to demand everything be in one language when most folks are comfortable in another. As long as you can impress on folks they need to include you to some extant and must include you when it's relevant then you should be ok.
Third, consider your choice of work environments. You don't go to work in a Chinese resturaunt & assume they'll work in English, don't work for a francophone company & assume they'll switch to English for you. There seems to have been some honest effort made to use more English but if it's not gonna happen then start floating that resume...
Finally, make pals with the poor [insert 3rd language here] who works in one foreign tongue & lives in another...
Put the boot on the other foot. (Score:1)
How about trying a compromise whereby you each speak the other's language?
For example, you speak to a French guy, in French, and he replies in English.
It might not work, but I'd be willing to try it on the basis that it may help.
stupid (Score:1)
in other countries, when people are using a programming language, do thay have to pragram in English? or are their other compilers for other languages?
Just curious
Lowest common denominator (Score:2)
I've studied in France and Germany, worked in four countries and travelled seven times that, my co-workers are from a dozen different nationalities, and I enjoy speaking French or German as much as English, but if we have just one person in a group that does not speak a language, we won't use that one. And English speakers having the narrowest mind as far as culture is concerned (yeah, flame me !) they seldom have to make any effort.
But in the long term, they lose : the winners are the ones capable of understanding the other cultures in depth, and language is part of it. If you can make your business partners comfortable in conversation, you also win because you establish better relationships and you understand what is going on in his mind whereas he can only speculate about the situation.
And I do not think that speaking foreign languages means surrendering one's culture : I may me multilingual, but that does not precludes me from cultivating my French skills and being a grammar nazi in my own language.
I try to get into people's head that French is an awesome language, especially if you use in the full breadth of it's power, not if you bastardise it ! The same applies to English : international English (I call that "eurospeak") really is a poor substitute for the real thing. Don't give up !
Shouldn't you post this again, in French? (Score:2)
Re:stupid (not so) (Score:1)
Blatant Commercial Plug (Score:2)
http://www.lotus.com/sametime
It uses one of IBM's better/best translation engines.
no mod points =( (Score:1)
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
Learn French, but get them to speak English, too. (Score:1)
I am English, living in Paris (France) and have been working for a French company for the last four years.
Our activities span the globe, and we have employees from a great many countries.
The most represented languages (roughly in order of numbers of mother-tongue speakers):
My wife (French) works in another company with a smaller geographical and linguistic spread (mostly English, French, German).
In our work, most people have at least a working knowledge of English, but almost all the non-French nationals can speak French reasonably well. Most meetings are therefore in French, unless there are people present who speak little or no French (e.g., when Americans come over to Europe, Brits come over to the Continent) and then we all speak English.
I personally speak French almost all the time. In fact, the only times I speak English is with one English colleague and with my English family. But then, I made a conscious decision to learn French before moving to France and before getting a job. I wan't transferred here by my employer, and I don't particularly feel the need for a cosy ex-patriot `bubble'.
I suspect that some of the French people in this Silicon Valley company are trying to create for themselves a little corner of France, perhaps even unconsciously... this is a dangerous thing both for themselves and for the company.
By isolating yourself from the leitkultur, you miss out on everything you could gain from it. By isolating yourself from you colleagues, you reduce your productivity.
By all means, you should make the effort to improve your French. It is not a particularly difficult language (although the pronunciation has a few difficulties for the anglophone beginner). But if the problem is the narrow-minded ex-pat culture that sometimes pops up, then I don't really see the point. At best, you'll learn a new language and be accepted into the group as an Honorary Frog. At worst, you'll be seen as someone who wants to gatecrash the party.
It takes time to learn (Score:3)
You do not become an expert speaker of French in a moment. They do not become na expert speaker of English in a moment. You will have to face the fact that there will always be difficulties.
That said, you should work on your french. Make it a point to talk to everyone in French, (if the other guy knows it) whenever possibal. If nessicary switch to english. It will take a few years (Thats right, years not internet seconds like many people want today) to elarn, but eventially you can learn.
Knowning a foreign language is a good thing. Most people I know (I live in the US) have no oppertunaty to use one. Nearly everyone I know took a foreign language in high school or college, it is a requirement (despite jokes about someone who speaks only one language being an american, most americans have a second language) to learn one. However with no reason or oppertunity to use it they soon become unable to use it. Come to think of it you might soon be able to turn the old joke around: "What do you call someone who only speaks one language? A Frenchmen."
Re:Shouldn't you post this again, in French? (Score:1)
"I live in Quebec....
... & lives in another..." (En Anglais dans le texte)
:-p
Pat.
If you want to learn French (Score:2)
But learning a language takes time and work.
I need to spend more time on my Hebrew at the molement.
The Cure of the ills of Democracy is more Democracy.
Deal with it. (Score:1)
When two french-speaking co-workers decide to have a discussion about a particular business matter, they do it. If an english-speaker is beside them, and has to be included in the conversation later on, then the frnch-speakers will switch to english and fill the other person in.
It is a matter of respect and politeness. The presence of a unilingual person in a conversation defines the language used for all other persons. If there are two unilingual participants with "opposite" languages, say a unilingual-french speaker, and a unilingual-english speaker, then the meeting will probably be split into 2 parts, say 15 mins of english, and 15 mins of french, with someone bilingual translating (whispering) beside the unilinguals.
Again, it is a question of being fair and polite.
It would be considered quite insulting to insist on a certain language to be used throughout the meeting, on the example above.
Anyone will appreciate an effort on the part of the other person, to speak his native language. How can one improve if they are not permitted to practice ?
My $0.02
Pat.
Re:It takes time to learn (Score:1)
Look at it as a learning opportunity, a lot of people would pay real money for a total-immersion language course. :-)
You obviously have some linguistic ability and french isn't that hard. It may take years to become fluent in french, but in a total-immersion environment it shouldn't take you more than a few months to become conversant. Besides, maybe you could finagle a trip to their home office for a few months. France is a beautiful country and you don't want to perpetuate the stereotype of the ignorant american. :-)
---Wherever you go, there you are.
Re:Shouldn't you post this again, in French? (Score:2)
Re:Not Unusual (Score:2)
Loose the "Anonymous Coward" or be ignored.
Re:It takes time to learn (Score:1)
They sit you down with a native speaker who talks to you and with you for as long as it takes (or as long as you can afford, whichever is shorter).
This is by far the most excellent way of learning a spoken language outside of living in a country where that language is spoken. It is also the most expensive way to learn. Private courses run about $100 per hour, if I recall.
Before going to Japan, I went with a friend of mine for 4 hours of refresher Japanese. It was immensely helpful. When taking large group classes with other people you tend to make the same mistakes as everyone else. So it's hard to correct those mistakes when just speaking with other beginners.
Cryptnotic
Re:stupid (not so) - Not So! Access97 translates. (Score:1)
To my immense surprise and horror, Access97 actually parses the vb code and translates it ... even structures such as iif. I wrote an Access database while working in England and then moved to work in Brazil; when I viewed my code on a PC with Office 97 Portuguese installed, everything had been changed. For example, the time() function was now hora() and the iif(,,,) was changed to selmed(;;;) - you can imagine my surprise... not to mention the difficulty work working like this.
IMHO this is REALLY stupid and just asking for trouble ... another example of Microsoft trying to be too clever.
Pentapod
Re:Shouldn't you post this again, in French? (Score:1)
Man, and I thought my commute was a bitch.
Been there, done that (Score:1)
I worked in Brazil for a year (I knew no Portuguese). The parent company is based in the states but there were only 3 people who spoke fluently, and no general level staff spoke English at all well. So I know this feeling well.
As you have found, it is frustrating to try and express yourself in another language. For this reason, your co-workers, even though they are living in an English country, will never speak English between themselves - simply from a point of view of getting the information across most efficiently, it makes no sense.
Since the company is English your company could insist meetings and official documents are held in English, but there's nothing you can to do change the spoken language in the office. You should work on your French and make the effort to speak to your coworkers in French - you'll find that your horribly mangled attemtps to do this will remind them you DON'T speak French well and they'll be more aware to speak English and include you. It will also generate good-will - you're trying. Finally, go out with them after work and at lunch, not only will it generate more good-will, you'll also pick up the slang and get used to hearing the language which will help your learning curve immensely!
Pentapod
Language learning (Score:1)
There is always a large gap between using formal communication skills in another language developed through academic courses, listening to the radio/TV, reading, etc. , and suddenly being thrown into the situation of having to use the informal, idiomatic everyday language.
I can only suggest to grab every chance to speak, stutter, and be corrected by native speakers; both you and they will need patience and persistence, but learning to communicate in the language idiomatically will be worth it.
You might also take a look at John Walker's language learning resources [fourmilab.ch] which has a lot of useful material, especially for anglophones learning French.