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The Internet

ISPs Owned By...Power Companies? 16

Jkior asks: "I've been using a local ISP - no problems for over a year and excellent service. Recently, however, they were bought out by a regional electric company. Which started me wondering - considering the GB/S or so bandwidth planned by MediaFusion, using the power lines. Is this happening anywhere else? Could power companies be seeing the possibilities in this?" MediaFusion's basic plan is to use the magnetic field surrounding the powerline as a communications medium as opposed to voltage or amplitude modulation. Since power lines connect more people than even phone and cable, might the beginnings of a true broadband global network be right around the corner?
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ISPs Owned By...Power Companies?

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  • by Zurk ( 37028 )
    a lot of companies in the uk tried the power line transmission thingy. it didnt work for various *technical* reasons as opposed to commercial. the IEE in the uk has been running a lot of papers on it, but so far the technical hurdles are fairly large.
  • by human bean ( 222811 ) on Saturday December 16, 2000 @07:24PM (#554265)
    I looked at this technology in my last job, for running broadband networking around a remote oilfield. Two things came to light:

    One was that Nortel had stopped R+D on their bid to do this, mainly because the bandwidth available did not stand up economically to future requirements. Too little too late, and optical fiber had more promise.

    Two, because of the planning and engineering needed to install the basic tranceivers, and the lack of mass manufacturing of same, it was cheaper to install optical fiber. Not to mention the lowered insurance and labor costs of installing away from substations and transmission lines.

  • I looked over the scant information found on their website, and what I don't understand is how they are going against Maxwell's equations. I don't really get the whole just sending a magnetic field down a wire- since we don't have a source of magnetic monopoles, all magnetic fields are generated by the motion of an electric charge. No current flow- no magnetic field, and therefore, no data.

    They use a bunch of buzzwords, like "maser" and "synthetic aperture", but no real information. I won't trust it until I see it.
  • Has been doing this for quite a while. The state was/is divided into two LATAs, and that meant that the two universities (the big ones, anyway) had to use different phone companies for their half of the state (and the T1 backbones), but had to get Montana Power Company (which owned a bunch of fiber) to connect the two. Why? Some strange law about phone companies completing circuits between LATAs, and that was somehow illegal.

    The whole thing made sense to me when it was explained, and the fellow doing the explaining was one of these scarily brilliant, but obtuse folks. He used to write his documents in raw postscript, in vi, when he wanted something fancy.

    Anyway, power companies have lots of right-of-ways, they know how to get something from them to the customer, they have field people, they understand outages, they know how to bury, hang, wire, and do all that other stuff. So, in short, it shouldn't be much of a stretch.
  • The point about power companies doing internet plays is not bits over the big heavy copper in the air... wrong physical/electrical characteristics for high frequencies for starters.

    The thing power companies have to bring to the internet game is "rights of way."

    See, they've got the rights to pass wires over all this land all over the map. Originally it was all thick copper carying kilowats. Now they just need ot hang an additional (fiber optic) cable on the same towers and viola! Low entry cost to good margin biz with significant barriers to competitors.

  • The problem with that is the same as the X10 stuff, IIRC. The Power company's transformer will block that signal, and depending on how far apart the houses/busineses are, they might very well have their own transformer (That big cylinder on the pole for most people).
  • Her in Norway a broadband company named Enitel (www.enitel.no (In norwegian)) has made a deal with most of the power companies that allows them to strech fibers side by side to the power lines, wich is cheaper than annything else, they even have this robot wich does it automaticly.(http://www.enitel.no/html/omenitel/hi storikk.asp)
  • Of course, I'm sure de-regulation will fix that problem.

    Yeah, because then they won't have an incentive to do well. Oh wait.
  • Not sure about this new technology, but my electricity has been more reliable than my phone service.

    Of course, I'm sure de-regulation will fix that problem.

  • I see what your saying, and for that other guy, poo on you. Since copper cannot conduct magnetic fields, how would this be possible...they need to give more info...well, I have an internship at HP with a genius on rf (wich is half magnetic fields) so I will ask him, and see what he says...

    "If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, first you have to create the universe."

  • ...this is is far simpler than you would think.

    A lot of power companies, in the process of building nationwide power connectivity, laid fiber as well. They want to generate traffic (and revenue) from this dark fiber, and are snapping up ISP's and network companies to build out layer three.

    Sorry, I know it's not as sexy.
  • My calling them buzzwords apply to the context in which they are used, and in this case, it applies to a website that is doing little more than quoting words that investors want to see, without providing any substance. To quote Merriam-Webster:

    Buzzword: an important-sounding usually technical word or phrase often of little meaning used chiefly to impress laymen.

    Using the term "synthetic aperture" and "Maser" without providing any real explanation seems more of an attempt to obfuscate and redirect the reader away from trying to understand their technology than provide information. This fully fits into the definiton of buzzword.

    I know what a MASER is and what Synthetic Aperture is. You are mistaken about synthetic aperture, though. It is *NOT* a type of radar. It is a method of effectively creating a very large antenna by using a small antenna and motion of the antenna or target. It is generally used for radar. But the term only applies to a method of increasing gain and resolution. (I designed, built and operated experimental synthetic aperture radars for 6 years, so I have a bit of experience in this area.) It is not just an alternate way of using any standard radar, it is vastly different. It has its own advantages (when focused properly, high resolution independent of range, limited solely by noise) and limitations (like they can't provide an image in real time, and moving targets screw them up big time). I have no idea about what these guys are really doing, but it is more likely that they are using a phased array type of system, if they are actually using multiple antennas to provide gain.
  • I feel obliged to correct your terminology. This is not my main field, but I do know a lot.

    First off, "maser" and "synthetic aperture" are NOT buzzwords... so get that out of your head.

    A maser is a laser-type device that operates in the microwave RF region. That is, it uses feedback and avalanching within a medium to create coherent EM waves, at whatever strength you feel like.

    "Synthetic aperture" is a type of radar system. I'm not sure what application it has to sending bits down a power line, but then again I'm not sure exactly what it is. But it has been around for a while, and when you use it on your radar system you get much better results, so like everyody in the world has converted over to it now.

    Not buzzwords.
    -----
  • There are certain devices called "Passport" made by intologis [intelogis.com] that will allow you to network your computers by plugging this device into the Parallel port and an electrical outlet. It actually works pretty well, and I assume it would be possible to adapt the technology to work beyond a single home, to over an entire city (or larger).

    Anyways, now back to studying for those exams!

    -mdek.net [mdek.net]
  • My local power company replaces their overheard wires every 20 years, (Wires get weak I guess), and since they have crews to do that already the cost to run anouther wire is essentially zero.

    Come to think of it, they also run an ISP, but that was mostly just anouther way to make money. None the less they would be failing their customers if they didn't look for solutions that allowed them to achive faster access.

  • It should be noted that the rail companies have the same advantage, They have over the last 150 years setup the rights to put down track and telegraph and later telephone wires all over the place.

    The phone company SPRINT started out as the
    Southern Pasific Railroad Company Internal Telecomunications group.

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