Open Groupware Solutions? 19
mrdisco99 writes "Our company is currently running Lotus Domino on Windows NT as a company email and groupware solution. Certain people are threatening to propose replacing it with Exchange, and I'd like to prepare a counter-attack with something that would run on a Unix/Linux/*[i,u]x platform. Any ideas? We have about 1000 users and we're not really taking full advantage of all the groupware capabilities that Notes has. Mostly, we've just used it as an email server and to schedule meetings and such. I know Domino will run on Unix, and we have a number of AIX and Linux machines that could probably handle it. However, we're looking for something that would be maybe cheaper and meet our relatively small needs. I'd prefer a freely distributable solution, but we'd be willing to consider proprietary alternatives, since we're already paying for Notes licenses. We also would want to get maintenance with that, so the vendor's customer support level will be important, as well." Freshmeat does list a number of different groupware packages, but I've never used any of them so I don't have any input on which might be better than others.
Openmail from HP (Score:1)
Groupwise. (Score:3)
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PHPGroupware (Score:3)
It's certainly a good place to start, and it's easy to add on to it.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpgroupware [sourceforge.net]
Since I'm a Domino admin, and ex-Exchange Admin (Score:4)
First, switching to Exchange will fix what? As in, what's broken now that'll work better later?
Second, Why are they proposing this? "Other companies do it" is no more a reason now than it was when you were a teenager and all your friends were jumping off of bridges.
Third, switching to Exchange would better utilize things how? Higher CPU loads for those same machines? More disk space use? When they say, "better use of the system", what the hell do they mean?
Fourth, don't switch operating systems unless you've got someone there, who'll hang around, that knows that operating system. A different operating system doesn't mean higher uptime. People ususally forget the better hardware and more stable OS (without flakey hardware drivers) that most unix systems are blessed with.
Fifth, nothing else really does calendaring yet. There's no standard for it. Once there's an agreed-upon standard, then it'll get popular. Till then, you're stuck. Once there's a standard, it'll get integrated with AIM, and you can check your buddy's calendar, or even send invites. Everything listed on freshmeat is web-based. Does it do repeating? Free-time search? Resource reservation? Resource approval? Room reservation?
Sixth, talk to your Lotus rep. Tell them you can't afford it, and that you'll have to switch to something else unless there's a price break. You've got MBA's there that supposedly know the art of negotiation. Make them prove it! Maybe you can run everyone with POP or IMAP clients, or web-only, and save some money there (by not having Notes clients on all the desktops).
Seventh, not using all of something's features is not a reason to abandon it. Why aren't you using it all? Simple Domino database authoring is the easiest/fastest rapid application development system I've ever seen, aside from OpenDX. Switching away from Notes means you'll have to use MS SQL server. Sticking with Notes means you can still use MS SQL, or you can use Notes (non-relationally), or DB2, or Oracle, or even MySQL -- but with an easy front-end. Throw in WebSphere (which is kick-ass on its own), and you've just done single-sign-on.
Eighth, did I mention LDAP?
Ninth, you can use IIS as the web server, and use MS Authentication, plus active server pages, perl, CGI, PHP, and all those tasty IIS plug-ins.
Tenth, you can't find a more secure email system. PGP and similar will encrypt the messages, sure, but with Domino, you can encrypt the message one way, and the mail file another way (encrypted on disk!), and also set permissions so that the mail admin can't read email. Plus the encryption is like PKI, where you pick a recipient, and it's encrypted with their public key before it even leaves your computer. No hitting the keyservers first.
Eleventh, Domino integrates greatly with SameTime (http://www.lotus.com/sametime) with is a competitor to AIM, but includes all that tasty h.323 conferencing stuff, via JAVA. Yes, audio and video over JAVA. Plus whiteboard, buddy lists, and AOL AIM connectivity! And once the standard AIM-style client protocol is agreed upon, it'll be able to connect.
Twelvth, (is that spelt rite?) there's QuickPlace (http://www.lotus.com/quickplace), but that's getting esoteric, and is a weak argument in your case.
And finally, for my last point, THERE IS A COST TO CONVERTING. Everyone forgets that. You'll have to buy new things, convert messages, install 1,000 copies of the new software, train everyone, convert private address books, convert public address books, learn new things, buy a second server to hold everything (while you're doing the converting, which'll take a month or two). You'll also have to put up with MS's primitive message store, where you attempt to salvage one or two messages out of a multi-gigabyte database that is everyone's messages. Since Domino uses a seperate file for each user, a lot less gets corrupt, or has to be restored, when hardware goes bad.
knew I'd forget something..... (Score:3)
Addendum to my sixth point. A Domino server can act as a generic IMAP or POP server. Then you can use Netscape, Eudora, Pegasus, or whatever on the client end. I don't know if that saves money. Also look at iNotes, which is aimed at the Exchange and web client-only access to a Domino server. http://www.lotus.com/inotes
Addendum to my eigthth point. Better LDAP connectivity than Exchange. You can also use it for authentication, lookups for delivery....
Thirteenth, and I can't beleive I forgot this in the context of Microsoft Exchange, but VIRUSES! Egads! You don't, yet, have to worry about that with Domino. On the client, there's a thing called an ECL (Execution Control List), which is set from a hidden document in the public directory. It specifies what level of access people can get. Unsigned things get no access. Signed gets varying (you specify) access to the file system, current database, env. variables, non-notes databases, external code, external programs, ability to send mail, ability to read other db's, ability to modify other db's, ability to export data, and finally access to the ECL itself. It won't stop the user from launching a trojan, but it does severely limit the damage that can be done. Throw in that MAPI isn't configured by default, which means all those MAPI virii don't have a send mechanism.
Fourteenth, if you throw in some remedial applications, you might find folks using Domino more. There's a lot of handy stock database templates that come with the server -- and you can even make the server act as an NNTP server.
Try Groove or Pyra (Score:1)
Check out this ask slashdot.. lots of good info (Score:1)
info regarding exchange/groupware..etc.
http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/00/11/16/194209
Whoo-hoo - one less Domino server! (Score:2)
Notes/Domino may have potential, but it has been implemented badly. The mail client under version 4 was horrible, full of user-interface inconsistancies and lacking some common features (such as reply all). The web server is the slowest I've ever seen.
IMHO Notes/Domino should be wiped from the planet.
yer out of date, dude (Score:1)
the web server did suck, but the R5 web server (out for 14 months now) rocks. our store-front is on it.
One of the most underrated groupware packages (Score:2)
The most significant barrier to anyone realizing the greatness of Groupwise is (as always) the Novell marketing bozos.
My $.02 anyway
You might want to take a look at (Score:3)
Bynari Tradeserver (Score:1)
http://www.bynari.net/
Good grief, why leave Notes? (Score:3)
As someone else already asked, what on earth does Exchange/Outlook do that Domino/Notes doesn't? Exchange has finally become genuinely competitive with Domino, but its offline application and data replication features are still far behind. Development for Domino gets you something that runs in native Windows and native Mac clients as well as over the web with no modifications. With Exchange, you have to choose development targeting Outlook or the web, and you can forget the native Mac client, which hasn't been updated in years, though a catch-up version has been "in the works" since at least 1997.
Moving to Exchange means the only OS on which you can deploy full-featured apps you build is Windows. It limits your choice of databases, management systems, webservers, development tools and even directory services, thanks to Exchange 2000's liberal use of Active Directory for storing settings in a manner that won't cross easily to standard LDAP directories.
Point is, if you're already a 100% MS shop first looking for groupware, Exchange is a fine candidate. But it's not "better" than Domino: at best it's an equal as long as Unix servers, mainframes, Mac desktops and EJB application servers aren't a forseeable part of your company's backend. In which cases Domino is the hands-down better platform, since it has first-party developer interfaces to all of the above.
As for open source and free solutions, there's nothing out there that comes close. No web calendaring solution comes close to what you get with Domino or Exchange (or Groupwise, for that matter). Just try syncing a bunch of palms with an open-source web calendar. And pleasant as a generic IMAP server can be for mail and shared discussion folders, you can't use it for forms routing.. and for that sort of thing, the only interface you can present is web, web, web. And that doesn't sync offline. Plus, LDAP's nice for a shared address book, save for the awkwardness of using entirely different interfaces and applications for accessing it and editing it.
Point is, once they've been to the big city called Domino, they sure as heck aren't going to back to the Middle Ages that open mail, calendaring and contact management offer.
QuakeWorld client/server (Score:1)
and one final thing... (Score:2)
http://www.lotus.com/dols
No client required. only a web browser.
Re:Openmail from HP (Score:1)
To quote from HP's site
If you wish to continue using the fully functional evaluation version of OpenMail after the six month evaluation period, we offer a FREE license key for up to 50 users. Once again, this is the fully functional product, but phone-in support and upgrades are not included. Manuals can be downloaded from our web site.
In order to receive a free license key for up to 50 users all you have to do is send an e-mail to linuxkey@openmail.com. This license key expires every six months, so you will need to get a new license key via this mailbox.
Re:Openmail from HP (Score:2)
Re:Openmail from HP (Score:1)
Re:Good grief, why leave Notes? (Score:1)
I just tried to convert from exchange to lotus and the major showstopper is native mac client!
The mac client I downloaded from lotus is java application and its so sluggish, people just said they have no time to use that.
...but outlook is definitely a native mac application.
Other than that its of course clear that lotus notes is superior.