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The Internet

RCN Cable Modem vs. Time/Warner's Road Runner? 24

Posted by Cliff from the stuck-between-two-choices dept.
Jeffrey Altman asks: "I'm moving into a new building in the middle of Manhattan which has been wired by RCN and Time Warner. I would have figured that I would have the full selection of choices available to me when choosing Internet access. However, that is far from the truth. Since RCN wired the building for telephone service, Verizon is unable to provide telephone service. This in turn has ruled out the ability to use any DSL service since all of the DSL providers must use Verizon-owned lines. (RCN is not required to allow third parties to use their internal wiring.) I would have prefered DSL, but I am stuck with a choice between RCN and Time Warner. Does anyone have any recommendations for which to choose?"
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RCN Cable Modem vs. Time/Warner's Road Runner? More

RCN Cable Modem vs. Time/Warner's Road Runner?

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  • Then how does he get DSL now that he is stranded on a DIGITAL ISLAND?

    He doesn't, which was the point of his "Ask Slashdot." There are many apartment owners in the North Texas [nctcog.org] area who sign deals with CLECs [coserv.com] giving them exclusive access to their buildings for telecom services, for a suitable fee (of course). In these instances, you cannot get DSL [dslreports.com] from your localtelco unless your CLEC wants to permit it and you can get the localtelco bureaucracy to move in that direction. Also, DSL from another CLEC [covad.com] is virtually out, since they don't want the hassle.

    Simply put, if you're going to move, make sure your apartment has the features you want: location, price, amenities and the right phone company [gte.com].

    ---

  • I live in upper manhattan (the last few blocks before the bronx.)

    I've been using road runner since it first came out. Although I was originally afraid that it would degrade with time, but it has persistantly been very fast. The upstream connection is limited to 30kb/sec but downsteam is constantly 200k-300k/sec. If a site is slow, it's never roadrunner. I work at a dot com and go to school downtown and the connections there actually feel sluggish in comparison with my connection at home, as silly as it sounds.

    Also, when I "apt-get dist-upgrade" my debian packages, I get a constant 300k/sec every time, and that's enough for me ;)

    The only bad point I could possibly think of is the AOL/Timewarner merger. Will AOL start pushing themselves on the RR service? I hope not.

    -- harlan
  • Jesus, goatse's got nothing on it. I predict great things for this photo.
  • Uh. Yes. It does acutally. Same thing applies to DSL modems although I am sure they may use different modulation techniques.

    From any one of numerous sources (do a search at Google for "cable modem modulate demodulate":

    Cable modems modulate and demodulate RF signals. The cable modem receives data in what is known as the downstream signal. This signal is modulated on television channels that are six MHz wide at frequencies between 88 to 750 MHz. Using QAM 64 technology, downstream speeds can reach up to 27 MBs on the six MHz channel through which the data is transferred. This signal usually runs adjacent to other television signals.

    Cable modems transmit upstream signals at frequencies between 5 and 42 MHz. This frequency range carries more noise than the downstream signal, such as noise from the home, loose connectors on the cable line, etc. All of this noise makes the upstream signal more difficult to successfully transmit. Although QPSK modulation technology makes the upstream signal more robust at this noise level, it sends data at slower speeds than the QAM 64 technology.

  • I have RoadRunner service in Queens (NY), and it's been a relatively pleasant experience as far as ISPs go. I used to deal with Interport for dial-up, but they were scarfed up by RCN and the service really went downhill (as did their customer service). Aside from a couple of minor outages early last year, probably due to the fact that the service was new to the neighborhood, I've been happy with, and would recommend going with RoadRunner. I've dealt professionally with Metro Fiber Systems, the telco that did the fiber for RCN, and a lot of their tech people were a bunch of lamers who always had to call the boss at home for help... There's no love lost between me and AOL/TWC and RCN, as they've both handed me some lousy business, so I've evaluated this from my technical/professional experience with both firms...
    Good luck (with your moving too),
    -Jerry
  • This is not the case with regards to phone service. One company owns all the wires from the local office switch to your house. The large ones (former baby bells) are required by law to lease those lines to other carriers. It would be extremely expensive for an alternate carrier to provide its own wire to your home, because it would required lines (and tremendous other infrastructure) all the way from their office to your home.
  • We got the the Linksys Router and hooked up a couple computers on it. On one of the computers, I setup a web server on our cable modem about 3 months. I had to take it down due to my roommate wanting his laptop back. I even had my domain resolve to the modem's IP address. I don't think RR would really care too much as long as you don't abuse their system.
  • Good point, Then how does he get DSL now that he is stranded on a DIGITAL ISLAND?
  • I currently have roadrunner (sitting behind a freesco firewall) and on the dsl-reports speed test I pull 1.5 megabits almost every time.
    which means in browser downloads I've seen it hit 384kb's a sec, which roughly translates to that I've downloaded both Mandrake 7.2 cds (standard and extension) in under an hour, with both downloading at about 145kbs.
    I would suggest getting a firewall (www.freesco.com) Freesco works great for me, Its a single floppy linux distro, with an amazing install process. I put it on an old p75, and it works perfect. Its all graphical (well kinda command line graphical) install, and you can control it after its set-up from inside your browser, to do stuff like open and close ports, re-boot, and check the system logs.
    It also has a small http server, but roadrunner has it in their license agreemeant that you can't host (which is bullcrap, because ADSl lets you, so it is a downside, BTW, does anyone have experience hosting with RR?, is their a way you can make it so they can;t see you?)
    Well, anyway, if you want a butt-loada speed for only 40$ a month, go with RR.
  • Modem? Why do they call it a modem, does it modulate and demodulate?


    Fight censors!
  • I myself have been stuck in the Verizon loop of insanity. Long story, but to get to the point:

    Cable modems are inherently insecure. You are sharing common bandwidth with others. That gives them level 2 access. Talk to RCN and see how well they handle Firewall Support. The reps at Time Warner pass you off from person to person and I have yet to get and answer.

    Time Warner is the company I am going through until I can the proper DSL modem. They are very unclear on their policies. Having gone through both the Road runner site [roadrunner.com] and the AOL-TimeWarner [timewarner.com] site, they do not specify very clearly what their terms of service are. I'm not too worried as I only plan to have them for a couple weeks. You, should check into it more though. A few companies out there... Sprint.... Have some very, evil policies. Like the right to go into your house because you are using thier service, right to dictate what sites you go to, regardless of legality, etc. So I would find all of that out before you consider either.

    (In case you ever go through verizon, RA-14 crap out past 11,000 ft. from CO. Only the RA-12 Modems will work past that. Fujitsu has not ETA on when they will fix this issue.)

  • As usual for geocities - it's the shitting yellow fountain dead person in a bath image. Or SYFDPIABI as I like to call it.

    Type in http://geocities.com/anything and you'll get something similarly offensive.

    -- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!

  • Various news outlets in Seattle are reporting that there may be evidence that Microsoft paid MGM to limit the amount of advertising this movie got. Possibly to the tune of $100 MILLION DOLLARS.

    You can find more information & links about this breaking story at this site [geocities.com]

    Destroy Microsoft!!!

  • "2. RCN provides static IP rather than changing dhcp. This makes it much easier to host a site."

    Just a tip... RCN doesn't provide static IP addresses. In fact, if you do staticly assign your IP, you'll eventually be deavtivated (and have to call tech support to be reactivated) when someone else gets the IP you staticly assigned.
  • You could probably have a static IP if you were on a Hybrid if you buy one from commercial sales, but only for upload I would imagine. Dialup can have a static IP, but there is not presently a way to set up a static IP for CM custs.
  • Before two months ago there was huge waits for tech support. Looks like they have about tripled the amount of tech support agents (at least in Springfield MA) in the past two months. Many of the dialup techs are being trained in cable modem. It has become more and more rare to have to wait for a tech at all. Only problem would be if you hit the "cloud" that redirects calls and got to a call center that had a wait. That also will be fixed soon though. The techs we have now have many tools, and are more knowledgable about how to use them.
  • Interport has since been migrated over onto RCN equipment from the original stuff and is now much more stable. They can also dial into all RCN PoPs. As interport they only had the choice of 4 phone numbers.
  • I know that RCN has been real aggressive with trying to break into the cable and phone markets. I used to have an erols account and I got swept up by RCN along with several other companies. They are one of the few companies laying their own cable lines in attempt to break the small local monopolies that cable companies have. I would call each and try to get the best deal. Although I only have dial-up through RCN, the service has been pretty good. They went through some glitches right after they got erols but since then things have been great.
    Be glad you can get something. I live too far away for DSL and have been swapped from cable company to cable company with each new company pusing back the cable modem date. I really wish I had choice between cable companies and a single choice at all for high bandwidth. :(
  • I was very excited about RCN moving into my neighborhood. A competitive telco providing a gamut of services! Excellent! So I joined the revolution!

    Well, I've made bigger mistakes in my life, but this one was up there. Their customer service was terrible (really long hold times, phone calls weren't returned, scheduled service dates were missed, phone service was once down for days, our bills were often screwed up, promised DSL availability was repeatedly delayed, etc.).

    Maybe this is all part of growing up. They have aggresive ambitions and aggressive marketing, but in my experience, it just wasn't there yet.

    I hope that RCN, or someone like RCN, gets it right, because I would love to see more compitition in this market. But I'm not going to be first one on my block to stick my neck out again.

    My advice: ask your neighbors. Find out from people _in your area, who are subscribed to the same services_ what they think.
  • Both have trade-offs though I have found that most of them are based on the CATV service not the CM.
    On the internet access side I have found RCN to be quite superior for the following reasons:
    1. I get much higher speeds on RCN than Time Warner allows. TW is capped at about 1.5Mbit down and 20kbps up. I can get multiple 300KB/s downloads at the same time, with bursts of up to 4Mbit from internal RCN machines. My uploads appear to be capped at 50KB/s which is nice and heady for serving files.
    2. RCN provides static IP rather than changing dhcp. This makes it much easier to host a site.

    There are tradeoffs: RCN does not offer Digital Cable, RCN does not always use DOCSIS equipment (my modem is an old Hybrid), RCN's backbone is still promarily DS3 though they do appear to be ramping up to OC-3.
  • NYC is not most places. You can only get things in with a building owner's permission (or coop board), and that isn't going to happen unless the owner gets something in return. For instance, the block of apartments I live in, RCN cut a deal to wire it for cable and phone with the landlord... that's how they got in.
  • I have RCN, my neighbor has TW and has had it since it went into beta. Here are the two stories:

    My Experience With RCN

    RCN was pretty good initially. I got it soon after they were out of beta in my area. Then they grew too fast. Their entire network was overloaded for about a month. After a few hassles including 2 modem swaps (they use Hybrids which aren't that good) and numerous short outtages, I would say their service is now pretty good. I usually get decent speed (up to 3 megabits/sec at 3am), my ping times are usually good enough for online game play (under 250ms) which is a necessity for my occasional Subspace [subspace.net] fix. I still get occasional problems. Their customer service isn't that great. I've been on hold an hour on more than one occasion.

    My Neighbor's Experience With Time Warner

    My neighbor got her cable modem last year while TW was beta testing. In the beginning, her speed was unbelievable, mainly cuz she was only one of a few people on the network. Now, it is similar to mine. She isn't really a techie, she mainly browses and sends mail, so she doesn't notice high ping times and such like I do. She said she's gotten good customer service when she called in with questions, too. Oh, and they do use better modems (don't remember which, offhand).

    Random Thoughts

    If anybody would like, I could do some traceroutes from both of our boxes to a few servers, test turnaround time and packetloss. Let me know if you're interested.

    Also, you may wanna pick up the Linksys BEFSR41 4-Port Cable/DSL Router [linksys.com]. Great unit. Two of my friends swear by them, mine is on the way. And you can update the firmware using a TFTP client from a non-windows box. Most of the others require windows to update. Plus, the manual is totally written by geeks with FAQ questions like "How do I get my quake server to..." No cheesy business questions here.
  • If I lived there, I would look into restraint of free trade and monopoly laws and see if any of this is illegal. It does not seem right. Even a grass roots effort from the occupants may get somewhere with picket signs and such at the front gate. As always, include lots of media for best effect.
  • In most places, you can call up and order what you want. They just bring in their own new wire. I have ordered services in some rentals I have been in with no problems. I now own, so it's not an issue. If your building owner forbids this, then it's a time to move. Lower property value due to lack of quality services may change the policy.

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