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Where Are The PHP/MySQL Consultants? 23

Posted by Cliff from the searching-for-the-professionals dept.
Bryan Kallisti asks: "I'm not a programmer. I do dabble a little bit with PHP and MySQL but I am far, far from an expert. My company is getting ready to implement a project that will tie all our information together with a centralized DB. The consultants that we have talked with are all SQL Server and VB based. I'm pro-open source stuff and want to do what I can to help sway this decision to go Open Source. I have some influence but I am having a difficult time finding consulting groups that focus on Open Source stuff. I did a search on google and only found a handful. What do you guys think would be the best way of approaching this?"
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Where Are The PHP/MySQL Consultants? More

Where Are The PHP/MySQL Consultants?

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  • Mission critical is not tracking trouble tickets. You could do that in a flat file.

    You talk the talk... But your knowledge is next to zero.

    Mission critical is anything that will cost your company big bucks if it fails. Doesn't matter if it's your financial systems or your coffeemaker.

    Simple trouble ticketting software can run with flat files, sure, but when you're running your whole customer service department off of it and it ties in with your companies engineering and production departments the flat file system tends to fall a bit short. If you can't understand that it's your own problem but don't go spouting off that it's not a mission critical system.

  • Hah! Name one major company using PostgreSQL for a mission-critical database.

    Mine. I'm declining to post a link to the site (no it's not my email addy, that's my toy site) because frankly I don't need a thousand script kiddies and curious people from the /. readership poking at my server. The DB is on the internal network anyway.

    Postgres is used for customer service (call tracking, etc.), shipping and SourceForge-like stuff. I'm also working on bigger and badder things. Not a single hiccup and it seems to be working fast enough for us (33 people with some very heavy DB traffic at times)

    NO we're not huge and NO we're not DB experts but Postgres seems to be doing well as our "mission critical database".

  • [1] BTW, Crystal Reports works great with MySQL through the ODBC connector. Although not the best, it is in common usage (i.e., people in sales/marketing often know how to use it themselves).

    I've used Crystal a lot myself, mostly from Btrieve (blech) and Access databases. You say Crystal isn't the best. What other tools have you worked with? I'm asking because I'd like to see the alternatives.

  • John Gray [brainpipe.com]

    ----
  • try searching for people at the popular jobs sites... guru.com, dice.com, etc... maybe post an an add or something?

  • Or Russia...
  • I would look at PostgreSQL for the simple reason it supports transactions. My main issue with databases that don't support transactions in general is when an aborted client update leaves the data in a logically inconsistent state. I also know that Borland is no longer charging for InterBase. I personally haven't ever used the beast before -- so I can't speak about its robustness...
  • >Name one major company using MySQL for a mission-critical database.

    well, NASA, according to this article [mysql.com]. that a major enough company?

    .brad

    Drink more tea
    organicgreenteas.com [organicgreenteas.com]
  • "PostgreSQL is production quality in a datacenter capacity"

    Hah! Name one major company using PostgreSQL for a mission-critical database.

  • The big obstacle that's slowing down open source in the workplace is simply the fact that corporations are run by fascist idiots that are already seconds away from a burnout. They like the peace of mind that comes when you pay big bucks for software and support.

    Although PHP and PostgreSQL are excellent products (I'd stay away from MySql for anything bigger than my own box), they just can't offer the same level of support as Microsoft or Oracle or any other dependable names (dependable in the business sense, even though their software grows suckier on a daily basis). Call Microsoft and if they can't fix you up on the phone, they will send someone over to assist you the next day. Sure, this comes with a hefty bill, but at least it's available for those who need it.

    Also, if there is a shortage of knowledgeable PHP consultants, then what will happen when the present consultant takes a hike, or gets shot in the head by a microsoft employee, or just gives up on your project because he sucks ? You'll be screwed without and will need to search far and wide again to find a replacement. MSSQL/VB dinks are a dime a dozen. Cheap scammy colleges spew thousands of them out every semester.
  • Having just started at a company where a project was already underway building a site with PHP and MySQL, my advice would be, go with something you personally are familiar with. Even if it ain't the latest and greatest, open-sourced, bells-and-whistles product, use something that you can support.

    There are a couple of reasons for this. One, you are likely the one who will have to support it after the consultants pack up and move on. If you're looking to learn something new, cool, but make sure you've got time to get up the learning curve.

    Two, you'll be able to exercise some oversight on the people building it out for you. The jokers that were hired for the project done here didn't have anyone looking over their shoulder, and it shows. No one here was able to check on their work or provide decent direction. While they were technically astute enough, they were obviously not experienced consultants and the design and documentation are woefully lacking.

    This is a good rule for hiring any sort of consultants, I feel, but I would be especially careful getting and checking references on these particular technologies. You should be looking for someone who is a professional first, and a technical expert second. It doesn't matter if they're self-taught whizzes that put the coolest site in the universe together in their basement--you need someone who can do your project professionally enough that you can understand and continue to support it.
  • I agree 100%: MySQL may be good for the back end of a little web site, but when you go to the real world you need a database that has at least the following (in a totally random order):
    a. transactions
    b. integrated hot backup and recovery programs
    c. tools for reporting, data mining etc
    d. a variety of indices: bitmaps, binary trees, join indices etc.
    e. 24/7 technical support
    f. support for decent machines like big motherfucking E10k's running Solaris, and not kiddie PCs with Leenooks.
    err I could go I but I guess you get the picture. MySQL should stick to running Slashdot (with the limited uptime that it has), and let the men to the real work.

    Oh, and as far as Sybase goes: I know it's quite popular in the banking sector right now, but from what I've heard some major banks are considering moving to DB2. A move for the better if you ask me.
  • I think that you need to look at some on the sites that support PHP development:

    phpbuilder [phpbuilder.com] phpweblog [phpweblog.org]

    Or my site: (shameless plug!) consultutah.com [consultutah.com]

  • No support for transactions.

    Can you imagine trying to sell that to a big Wall St Investment Bank ? I'm sorry, but our database system might or might not record your $100 million currency swap deal with the Bank of Japan.

    Why does open source always have to mean second best ? At work I try and advocate free software wherever I get the chance, but jokes like MySQL do our movement no favors whatsoever.

    We will stick with Sybase for the moment.

    What do others think ?

  • Maybe he meant that using CR through ODBC wasn't the best...
  • This is the goofy thing that the Open Source community simply doesn't get. 99% of the businesses out there are still run by the old school MBA's. These people probably don't even know what Linux is or does. The fortune 500 corporations work in a world apart from the open source movement. Microsoft is deeply embedded in the sales and marketing processes of all of these corporations. When an IT Director looks for new tools, who are they going to being in to sell open source tools? Where is the infrastructure for this? Add to the fact that (as has been mentioned) there are many more resources for MS development than andthing else, it's an easy choice. They still get their results, maybe costing a bit more, they get excellent support and consulting, and resources are always readily available in case someone gets shot. There is no emotion here. There is no squabble over what is more elegant or more efficient. It's about logistics and business. The open source movement simply cannot compete in this world.
  • For "db's" that need to do lots of reads and very little writes in a highly used production site -- try ldap!!! The results would probably blow MySQL out of the water.


  • Hah! Name one major company using PostgreSQL for a mission-critical database.


    Name one major company using MySQL for a mission-critical database.
  • well, NASA, according to this article. that a major enough company?
    Sure, that's a big company. But a database that's used to send out a couple of email alerts to people hardly qualifies as mission critical. Mission critical would be something that the company relies on for its very survival, or at least something that if it were to go down or become corrupt, would have severely negative consequences that would affect the operation and success of said company.
  • My company is getting ready to implement ... a centralized DB. The consultants that we have talked with are all SQL Server and VB based. I'm pro-open source stuff and want to do what I can to help sway this decision to go Open Source. ... What do you guys think would be the best way of approaching this?

    First, consider PostgreSQL instead of MySQL (lots of reasons, but the first is that PostgreSQL is production quality in a datacenter capacity). MySQL is great and getting beter, but from what we've seen, PostgreSQL is a candidate replacement for Oracle.Try this [google.com] Google search.

    Second, if your company has only spoken with VB/SQLServer consultants does that reflect a management decision to stick with MSFT products? If they haven't talked to an Oracle guy/gal or two, that's what it sounds like.

    Third, who maintains this beast after the consultants leave? If it's an inhouse team then what technologies are inhouse already? If you're in a MSFT-shop, then it will be a hard, hard sell to centralize using non-MSFT tools. What's more, if your people are MSFT-centric I'd say stay with the toolset. This is a business decision.

    Anyway, there's a lot of things to consider. If your company is starting fresh then the field is wide open and open source tools could be the way to go (should, IMO). If you're entrenched...keep digging!

  • We're Right Here (Score:3)

    by waldoj ( 8229 ) <waldo@@@jaquith...org> on Friday February 09, 2001 @11:50AM (#443362) Homepage Journal
    Just look under "Web Development Companies" on PHP's site [php.net], or under "Some MySQL Consultants" on MySQL's site [mysql.com]. My company [munkandphyber.com] has been doing (almost exclusively) PHP/MySQL website development and consulting since the spring of 1999. Thanks in part to our listings on these sites, we get a good amount of site traffic (and therefore business) from folks looking for exactly what we do best.

    -Waldo
  • I use MySQL. I also am running web sites that need to do lots of reads and very little writes.

    MySQL blows most databases out of the water... in this niche (or any other where damnfast reads and limited writes are necessary). I'd look at your requirements, and who you are bringing on board.

    Realistically, MySQL will fill lots of cases, but if you're looking into a situation where you need to maintain complex relations or generate complex reports[1], you're better off going elsewhere... and that's from someone who has pitted MySQL's stability and speed against Oracle in the real world and won *in the realm of webserving*. I'd not attempt it in a contact database that ties to PBX phone logs, with a managerial overview and logging and complex sales/marketing/salesperson reports... I did that too, and went with Oracle happily.

    [1] BTW, Crystal Reports works great with MySQL through the ODBC connector. Although not the best, it is in common usage (i.e., people in sales/marketing often know how to use it themselves).

    --
    Evan

  • Well... (Score:3)

    by BluedemonX ( 198949 ) on Friday February 09, 2001 @05:01PM (#443364)
    What is the difference between a pizza and an Open Source programmer?

    The pizza can feed a family of four.

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