The Future Of EE Majors?

adebater asks: "With all of the recent layoffs in the EE field, including today's announcement of Motorola's 4000 person layoff, what does the future hold for graduating EE majors? I am about to graduate, and I was wondering if there was any chance I might have job stability, or even a job. I was wondering what /. people would tell the newly graduating CS and EE majors and what their immediate futures held in store for them." Yes, the market is slowing down. But you must realize that this is only a temporary situation. It may get worse before it gets better but it WILL get better (barring a catastrophe that sends us back into the Stone Age). Hang in there.

Seriously consider software development

[ovapositor]

I was an EE grad, MSEE 92. This question rings very true in my ears as the same situation I was in when I graduated! I was faced with some harsh realities of looking for work during a recession. I came to the realization that my carrer would ultimately be more portable if I persued the software development path vs hardware.

I cannot stress this enough... I gained superior job flexibility over being forced into serious hardware design niche dead ends.

I happened to have been forced to learn some C for doing DSP work before graduation and I landed a job doing same for the Navy on a contract basis. These days, many more companies need custom programming, as compared to EE expertise.

I also enjoyed the faster rise in pay thanks to the demand surge for software. I expect this trend to continue.... many hardware jobs are/were being moved overseas.

You individual needs will be different but I suggest you cuddle up with a good book on programming and just jump right in.

Free book suggestions.
http://www.bruceeckel.com

Thinking in Java (or C++).. decent free material.

Cheers!

Re:Seriously consider software development

[SunlightMoon]

>>I cannot stress this enough... I gained superior job flexibility...

And I could not agree more. Whether you follow the above advice and chuck the hardware work for software development or not, it is imperative that engineers be competent coders. OF COURSE job flexibility is important, and the more you know, the better jobs you can get. But software and hardware are inextricably entwined, and no job on one side should be ignorant of the work on the other.

In my own experience (which I admit is small and certainly doesn't belong to everyone), anyone who exits a university clutching an EE degree will be expected to understand computers from stem to stern. Computers aren't magic any more than electrons are wizardry, but the general public will hold on to their superstitions, won't they? :)

VPI BSEE '96

Optical Equipment Testing?

[CEHT]

Couple of my EE friends who are graduating in the coming June already got themselves jobs at some companies which make optical equipments. I think my friends are doing optical equipment testings.

============

Re:H1Bs & immigration visa - clarification

[John Jorsett]

You could try joining anti-immigrant groups such as the Reform Party or the IEEE. They are lobbying to block those foreigners stealing US jobs. I doubt it'll work though, coz neither has enough power.

How you got an anti-immigrant bias from my post is beyond me. The industry goes bitching to Congress every year about how they can't get enough U.S. citizens, and I was suggesting to the original poster that he simply present himself to one of the bitchers. I don't think we need to import foreign help if our own citizens are ready and able to do the same work. What we surely don't need is more thin-skinned grievance-nursing soreheads like yourself.

It's a universal problem

[PHAEDRU5]

I graduated with a degree in Physics. You think you've got problems!

Anyway, I ended up designing hardware for DEC (got the job because I was able to analyze the voltages/currents in a simple power supply design). Stayed at DEC for a couple of years and then joined the U.S. military. Ended up writing lots of code (lied my way into the job, went back to school to perform on the job).

What advice can I give you? Well, do what you truly love. If you do that, you'll be good and if you're good, you'll always have opportunity. Other than that, just trust your abilities and always look for the next good thing. Keep stretching yourself and thinking big. What issues you're seeing now are short term.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Focus on programming

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want fat bucks, focus on programming. EE types are generally far better than standard CS types at optimizing, as they really understand the hardware. This gives them a tendency to be the top salary earners in embedded systems programming and video game programming, and will probably continue to be true until stranglehold fascist API-only Windows and Wince based solutions are crammed into every last stereo component and game system.

General comments

[stevew]

I read thru the comments below and several of them made good points. I'm an EE of 20 years (and have a significant programming backround as well..)

1. The industry (and the economy) is indeed cyclic. At the same time - I've only been out of work for one month in the last 20 years. This stability is tied to what you know, and where you live... it's obviously easier to get a job in Silicon Valley rather than out in the toolies somewhere.

2. Knowing software engineering ups the anti. If you have a software backround as well as know hardware - you can switch hit. It's just that many more job descriptions that you qualify for.

If you are true hardware wheeney - you wouldn't be satisfied with software exclusively anyway, but being able to do more than one thing is always a GOOD THING(TM).

3. Getting a few years of industry experience makes you MUCH more marketable than when you are fresh out of school. Young engineers usually need a little seasoning - so dig in and enjoy it.

4. With that being said, there is a huge amount of salary compression now-adays (and I thought it was bad when I graduated in 79.) Just a few years out of school in the right disciplines will pull down $100K no problems in the right geographic area.

5. Most areas of engineering (and programming) will be salaried, i.e. you get to work for 60 hours a week and get paid for 40. Rare is the place that pays overtime. (hehe...I finally found one again after 20 years...)

6. You better LOVE what you do for a living if you're going to be doing it 40-50 hours a week for 30 to 40 years. You GOTTA love going to work in the morning, or it isn't the right place for you.

you have options

[toast0]

if you can't get a job as an engineer, you could always be a teacher, theres a definate market for good cs/ee professors.

here at an engineering school in milwaukee which i will not name (but whose name should be painfully obvious), there are a couple teachers everybody wants, a few everybody would be ok with, and several that nobody wants.

This situation exists in every field, but even more so in EE/CS because there are more people in those programs, and more instructors.

If you think you understand the courses you took, and could teach them as good as your best prof, or at least better than your worse prof, you might want to see about getting a job as an instructor. If nothing else, you could be an adjunct professor during evenings for job security. If your day job doesn't pan out, and you're a good instructor, you would probably be able to move to being a full time professor.

And then theres always management...

Cyclical

[John Jorsett]

I recall back in the olden days (early '70s), when I was in engineering school, everyone was thinking I was nuts because the aerospace sector was tanking and there were massive layoffs of engineers. Well, by the time I graduated a few years later, demand was intense and I got a premium whn I was hired. This stuff is highly cyclical and downturns are temporary. Plus, while I haven't personally tried this, it might be worth trying to find the companies trying to obtain H-1B visas to bring in foreign workers in your speciality. They're supposed to certify that they've done a diligent search for a U.S. worker and failed to find one. It would be pretty tough to make that argument if you're standing there saying "here I am". I don't know if there's a way to queer an H-1B by protesting it to the government agency granting it, but it's an interesting thought.

Broad layoffs barely touch EEs

[NortonDC]

Broad layoffs barely touch EEs [eet.com]

excerpts:
With layoffs striking everywhere from high-flying Internet companies like Amazon.com to brand-name corporations like Xerox and Motorola, engineers are so far thanking their lucky stars for that EE degree. The engineering ranks appear, for the most part, to have escaped the ax -- at least for now.

"Unemployment [among engineers] is still tenaciously low."

Though engineering departments have largely been spared, they don't always avoid the hatchet. "Our job reductions are worldwide, pervasive around the country except for the sales force. It's likely that some engineers will be included," said a Xerox spokeswoman.

Nevertheless, Hoover said that as a job hunter, he has seen that corporate cutbacks can go hand in hand with engineering hiring.

Do what you love...

[Matt_Bennett]

I'm an EE, I got my BSEE in '91, and my MSEE in '97 (while I was working full time). When I graduated in '91, the economy was in a downturn that really affected my chances for a job- I had two separate interviews (on-site) that said, "we had jobs when we did the on campus interview, but since then, we don't." I was a good student, good GPA, but I was being picky. I decided to concentrate on doing the things that I enjoyed, those things that I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing. I took a job that was for less pay than many of my peers (at a government research lab), but I had the opportunity to learn much more than I would have if I had gone into private industry right away. Now, I'm in demand. I have a broad set of skills that companies like, and I get to do cool shit.

If you got into engineering for the money, I feel sorry for you, you'll never feel fufilled. I don't know of any engineers that are going hungry, and only anecdotal evidence of a few that drive Ferraris. You may not be able to pull down the big bucks now, but, in truth, straight out of school, most engineers don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and they shouldn't be making the big bucks until they can prove their worth to their company. When you graduate, you've only completed the basics for an engineering job, it will take you years more effort to become a truly great engineer. Engineering is all about getting things done with the resources available. School gave you the tools to do the job, but only real life experience will give you the practice at using those tools. You will spend the rest of your engineering career honing your skills. Right now is the time to find an experienced engineer (and technician) to work with, so you can learn to use those tools with precision, style, and creativity. There are plenty of those types of jobs available now, though they may not be as glamorous. Don't be cocky, approach every opportunity with an open mind and a willingness to listen and to learn.

There are many, many students out there that have great things on their transcripts, but have no passion for engineering. Find stuff that makes you say "Wow." In that way you will excel. Interviewers notice that, many of them will be engineers that have been on the other side of the table.

As to stability, there is no guarantee of employment with any job. If you develop indespensable skills, you will be less likely to be fired, and better able to get a new position when you want it. Right now RF and analog positions are in demand because most schools are churning out engineers that are heavily digital-oriented, and ignoring the analog portion. ('Cept for DSP.) But speeds are getting so high that analog and digital are blurring into one. There are other examples out there. The best RF engineers I know are all nearing retirement age. When they are gone, so is their knowledge. You have the opportunity to mold yourself into what is in demand, not now, but 10 years from now.