Become A Techie In The Military Or Tough Out College? 29
Vain asks: "I'm a student in Wisconsin who is wondering just where his career path is leading him and needs advice. I'll be graduating with a 2 year degree (in networking) this summer. A few people have suggested that the military is a great place to get not only good pay, but good money for school as well, even if it's just the guard. Should I consider joining the guard, getting a BS or MS through government funding, or stick with my 2 year for now and try to find a place in the area? I guess what I'm looking for is some techies in the military (or out) to give me a few suggestions."
Re:Military humor (Score:2)
One of my best friends in college went through computer training in the Marine Corps. He spent an inordinate amount of time learning and programming COBOL, for which the military has a tremendous amount of legacy code.
Then he left the military. In some ways, he was better off. People respect that an officer is responsible and disciplined. However, his tech skills hardly advanced at all. That is why I claim that if you want to advance your tech skills, the military is a waste. Great benefits, great vacation time, but not great training. The best training in computers is doing.
Not for techies, but not bad for some (Score:2)
Now, the question is, would somebody with 2 years of technical school be happier going to college, or going into the military? I would personally say "Go to college". The military is not going to make use of those 2 years of technical school. The military is accustomed to hiring the redneck kid of my first paragraph, kids who have native intelligence but are bone stock ignorant. So you're likely to be bored stiff in training courses going over material that you already know before you get a chance to do anything with the "neat equipment" that's probably 5 to 10 years old.
The military isn't too bad a place for nascent techies, those who like computers but have no education or training. But the real learning comes afterwards, when you go to college and get your BS degree (bull**** degree, agreed, but lots of people like to see that you have one, for a variety of reasons that I won't expound upon here). For those who already DO have training, the military can be a very dreary place indeed unless you're an officer -- and even there, there's no guarantees (and the "up or out" policies really suck, a friend's brother got kicked out at 18 years because he did not rise in grade fast enough, and he has *NO* retirement benefits for his 18 years of service).
The Reserves or National Guard have been mentioned as an alternative. All I have to say about that is: what happens the next time we have another Persian Gulf skirmish? You could lose everything if you're called up for active duty for six months because some tinpot dictator decided to take over one of our favorite oil producing states. Think about it -- you're in the Silicon Valley, you have a house that you paid $350,000 for, a car that you paid $40,000 for, and you really expect to be able to keep the mortgage and car payments up when you're ripped from your job and forced into active duty at a whopping $750/month?! I know people who lost everything when they got called up into active duty for the Persian Gulf skirmish. Yeah, the "free" money for college is great, but the obligation is real, and can cost you much, MUCH more than the "free" money for college.
-E
Military or College (Score:1)
Morals (Score:1)
A good site is Znet, Kosovo [zmag.org]. They have many articals posted about that recent bombing.
In my opinion US foreign policy is evil and the only reason it is allowed to go on is because people don't know about it. We condemn the atrocities of some (like Kosovo), but finance the atrocities of other (like in Turkey). And does anyone know why we made a no-fly zone in Iraq? And still have it? And sabotaged the weapon-inspector program by putting spies in it? And were orginally supporting Iraq? And Pinochet? And a host of other despots?
Anyways, don't decide this based purly in economic terms.
It depends... (Score:1)
Basically, if you have a solid, well-paying offer now, it'd be best to jump on it, but if you're at all uncertain, it might not be bad to sign up for a few years, get some skills, certifications, and experience, and ride out the dot-com shakeout someplace you can't get pink-slipped from...
legion
I am many...
A Happy Medium? (Score:2)
What future employers look for.... (Score:1)
So, if the military offers you opportunities to get useful experience, and if you're cool about the other aspects that make them a unique employeer (possibility of shooting someone/getting shot) then why not?
On the other hand, if you think you vcan get a job at MS, that is also going to be an interesting point on your CV.
Where do you thik you'd get ot play with the coolest toys?
Re:Just Don't Do It (Score:1)
the benefits come later on (Score:3)
The main benefits I got out of military service came after I was a civilian again... I recieve VA medical care, my house was purchased with a VA loan, I'm finishing school with the help of the GI Bill. Many of the intangible things I learned while wearing a uniform have come in really handy in real life.
since you have some specialized education already, you might consider guard/reserve; that would (eventually) give you the benefits that will help you later on, while still letting you do what you really want as a civilian. there's no guarantee that you'll end up in a military job that translates to be what you're looking for, even if that's what the job description says. (if you're near a guard/reserve unit, see if a recruiter will let you visit during a drill weekend, and talk to the people who do whatever job specialty you're looking into.)
you can be a military techie; but just keep in mind that it might not be the kind of techie that you'll be as a civilian.
HTH.
Re:Just Don't Do It (Score:2)
Obviously the military isn't for everyone, and the poster above makes excellent points that I don't dispute. But for some people, it can be a great career move (or a transition to one, as the case may be). Consider the points above and keep in mind that, unless you want it to be, the military isn't generally a whole career, but rather a good first job with some unusual perks & drawbacks, and those can in turn set you up for a great career later.
Assuming, that is of course, that you don't have a problem carrying out dubious orders etc. I for one could never do it -- I just don't have a problem with the Iraqi people and don't feel that shooting near (but not at) their military does a whole lot to help them. But you may not have such objections...
Re:Just Don't Do It (Score:1)
If you feel like you need to be taught discipline and structure, it may be a good route for you, otherwise I'd say stick to school. By the way, as happens with a lot of folks in the military, I never got to go to college. I was away too much and then got married and had kids, and that was the end of that. I now long to go to college, which I could do, but I'm not trying to lose my family anytime soon, so I won't. The whole GI bill was worthless for me. I've still got some years to use it, but I just don't see it happening.
A job when you graduate... (Score:2)
If you like stability, the military could be good. Structure, three meals a day, and your company won't go down when tech-stocks dip.
I work for a defense contractor (And traced my path to here on this chart [userfriendly.org]). Having been in the military is something they consider here as a bonus. I imagine there are other employers that also look favorably on that. Look at the committment versus the pay-off and do some homework as to how likely it is that you'll get to work where you want to. When I looked into it, that was something I considered and asked around about (and one of the things that kept me from signing on in the end). Course...that was the air force and I wasn't a techie.
Galego
Not during wartime. (Score:1)
Not a bad deal, really (Score:1)
I enlisted in '85, Marines. Spent four years in the infantry, then lateral moved to Data Processing, for another four years. Then I got the heck out.
Our data processing equipment was nearyly state of the art - we didn't always have the latest and greatest in huge numbers, but we usually had enough. About what you'll find in a typical busines as far as that goes.
When I seperated in '93, I didn't notice any kind of skill gap between my knowledge and my hypothetical peers who elected to go to college or go directl to work. In some/most cases, I was light years ahead of them in practical experience.
Some things to consider (Score:3)
That being said, I had no idea what I was in for when I enlisted at 17. While recruiters and classifiers (the people that help you pick a specialty) aren't usually lying, they're not always familiar with the specialties that you're enlisting for. For example, to a non-geek, an electician and a network administrator could be pretty similar. For this reason, I recommend seeking the advice of a veteran of the branch of service you're interested in, and, ideally, someone with a similar background (although some specialties, e.g. network administrator, are fairly new in the last few years).
If you decide to go the military route, grab all the education and training you can get. No matter whether you decide to stay after the end of your enlistment or leave for civilian life, it will never be any easier or less expensive to get educated while on the job. Find the Educational Services Office on your ship or station and make them your friends.
I know this stuff is Navy-centric, but the same ideas apply in all branches of service. Also, consider seeking a commission--ROTC will pay your college expenses and a stipend in return for service after. If you even think you might want to become an officer, do not enlist first unless it is your only way into the door. My observation of shipmates seeking a commission was this: a "go-getter" can always move up, however, once you're enlisted, a commission is harder to come by than if you're starting as a civilian.
Also don't forget to have a look at the service academies, particularly the Merchant Marine academy, which itself doesn't even require military service, only work in the maritime industry, after graduation.
Good luck!
P.S.: If you enlist, make sure you do whatever it takes to establish G.I. Bill eligibility. For a time, contribution of $1,200 over a year to establish eligibiity was optional--you had to decide in boot camp, and the decision was unchangeable. Don't make the wrong one.
Re:Well... Wow. (Score:2)
That depends entirely on you. I worked full-time, but it took me almost 6 years to finish. Then again I know people who worked 25-30 hours/week and finished in three.
I spent a fair amount of time on extra-curricular activities and just having fun, and I'm not at all sorry. I could think of plenty of worse ways to spend the time.
Bear in mind that the bang-for-buck ratio with colleges varies drastically. Unless you have hangups that rule out one or another type of school (small vs large, urban vs small-town), you may face a pretty wide range of opportunities and costs. If you're paying your own way, then not a chance in hell is it worthwhile to go to Harvard for $22k vs Wisconsin for $6k. If you're looking at scholarship money that narrows the gap, that may change things.
Do you really want to ... (Score:1)
Take the ridiculous military programming classes ?? Actual scenario. When a prompt asked a student to press any button, the student asked "Which button is the any button ?"
The reply from the Marine Corps instructor was "The large button at the bottom of the keyboard is the any button."
If you want a tech career, really, the military is wasting your time. You will learn how to become an insignificant cog in the system, how to take 30 paid vacation days per year, how to accrue a nice pension and benefits, and you will be light years behind people who drop out of high school and just starting working as administrators/programmers once you leave the military.
Turkiye (Score:1)
Anyway, I concurr with theses guys. I learned a lot, i wouldn't trade it for anything, would i have stayed in, no. did I make the right choice in joining, yes. It was a valuable experience. Besides.. you skills might not always be matched it's said. BUT..... If you go to the recruiter SPECIFICALLY knowing what career code you want, you can wait to get it, or just walk on the deal. They NEED people like you VERY badly right now. They'll make exceptions. if it's air force, go for the 3c0x1 or 3c3x1 fields. Someone correct me if the AFSC codes have changed.
Just Don't Do It (Score:5)
So what's the optimal solution? Not sure. I'd say it seems to be either Guard/Reserve (I plan to go reserve when I seperate from active duty), or contractor. Just be sure you can still have a connection to the outside world to stay current.
Finally, for some people, this is just the right thing to do, and they would stay past 30 years if they were allowed. I'm just relaying my experience. If you have other questions, feel free to drop a line at the above email addy (after despamming it, of course).
Good Luck!
Re:Don't do it. (Score:1)
As the other poster pointed out, the USCG becomes part of the USN in time of war.
Obligatory humor: Navy sailor to Coastie: "Hey, I hear it rained yesterday!" Coastie to Navy sailor: "So, what?" Navy sailor to Coastie: "Did you get sea pay?"
Been there... done that... (Score:3)
Military = They pay you, get 4 valuable years of experience with cool toys. Spend 4 years drinking. They assume you know nothing at the start, give you responsibility at the end.
College = You pay them. Spend 4 years drinking. Employers assume you know nothing at the end.
My 4 years were quite valuable. Air Force and Navy are best for techie-type jobs.
Re: Become A Techie In The Military Or Tough Out C (Score:1)
Coast Guard (Score:2)
I had a year of College, but after they dropped my grants in exchange for more loans & I found my education wasn't much better than what I was getting in High School, I quit, went and scrubbed toilets, painted houses, and had some fun. But paying off the debt I'd already accumulated just didn't seem very easy, & with negative funds I had no way (not even a car) to get myself to the big city where all the real money is.
So I went to the Coast Guard recruiter, told him what I wanted to be, and got myself a guaranteed ET school with a sign-on bonus. Learned a bunch of new things at boot camp that have absolutely nothing to do with the real Coast Guard but were challenging enough at the time.
School was pretty challenging, then I had more schools in my specialty, RADARs, now I'm on my Cutter (the price I payed for school directly from boot-camp was a guaranteed sea billet) where I'm becoming the assistant (cough) network administrator (We run about 50 NT workstations & a couple servers, local networking & internet access for the crew). They'll be sending me to the school in a month or so. There's also a few systems on board that run UNIX or variants thereof, including one of my radars.
I'm enjoying it, I've already seen Mexico & Guatemala. I do all kinds of electronics work but also all kinds of other technical and non-technical things on board ship. If I'm tired of staring at a computer I step out and redo some weatherproofing on an antenna or go help the deckies paint. When the paperwork piles up I can go out at night and look at the most awesome sky on earth. When my shipmates get annoying, I go look at the dolphins & whales & turtles. It's pretty cool, despite the hardship of being away from civilization & my car & a high speed internet connection.
Yeah I don't get payed much now, but I'm getting payed more than I would at college. I'll have my associates degree polished off in a couple months using distance learning. Every contractor we deal with on land asks when we're getting out cuz they want to hire us, so prospects can't be that bad, and I'm stationed here just 20 minutes from silicon valley, home of the high-paying 6 months then dead startup job.
If you'd like to know more about the Coast Guard email me (it's obfuscated duh). The recruiters are usually smart but not in the know. ETs are in high demand now, because everyone gets out after their first enlistment for the real world...
Don't do it. (Score:1)
Get the BS or MS (Score:2)
Military Experience Can Be A Good Thing (Score:3)
Well... Wow. (Score:1)
I think I'll just keep my eyes and ears wide open and keen. Maybe big brother isn't for me.
-Paul
ignore me, i'm biased. (Score:1)
Military humor (Score:1)
-E