PC Hardware On A SPARC?

Dan Eisner asks: "With the new SunBlades available for around $1000, running Sun hardware at home is finally a real option! (however if you want to get a 3D graphics card, though, it doubles the cost) Yet, there are plenty of PC-based PCI graphics cards with great performance, for as little as $100. Should it be theoretically possible to get a PC PCI video (or any type) card running on a Sparc? I know that PC-based cards expect some functionality from the BIOS, but couldn't this be emulated with a clever driver?"

"The drivers for a huge amount of cards have already been written for Linux, so it would seem to me that once someone made a port for any driver to Sparc, the same techniques could be used to port all kinds of PCI cards.

How great would it be if you could run to CompUSA, pick up any PC, PCI card, and stick it into your Linux-based Sparc at home! Has anyone ever looked into this? I couldn't find any reference to even the idea on the web..."

While a neat idea, I don't think this is as trivial as the poster makes it out to be. What do you think?

Off-topic: Alternative OS for Fujitsu-ICL J822s

[peter hoffman]

Please excuse the (somewhat) off-topic nature of this post but I would really like an answer.

I have a Fujitsu-ICL SuperServer 822s (dual SPARC) which initially ran DRS/NX (ICL's SVR4) which is now a defunct OS.

I would like to run a Free Software operating system on it but I have seen no mention of this hardware on any of the *BSD or Linux pages. Searching Google and Usenet News produces nearly no references to ICL of any sort.

If you know of anything that might run on it, I would appreciate a pointer. TIA.

OpenSourcerers [opensourcerers.com]

X86 PCI cards on non-x86 computers

[zipcube]

The catd would have to have an onboard videoBIOS that supported the processor arch. This is why you can't just stick a pci vidcard designed for x86 into an alpha without appropriate the firmware. Few manufacturers bother to make Alpha firmware for their cards, let alone UltraSPARC. (with the exception of some high end cards of course)

Re:why bother

[RossyB]

Because Sun kit is bullet proof and lasts forever, that's why people run Linux on Sun stuff.

NOT that easy, but not that inpossible either

[jmenezes]

I know that PC-based cards expect some functionality from the BIOS, but couldn't this be emulated with a clever driver?"

"The drivers for a huge amount of cards have already been written for Linux, so it would seem to me that once someone made a port for any driver to Sparc, the same techniques could be used to port all kinds of PCI cards.

well, I wish it was that simple...
but its not quite that easy.
The poster is right on the fact that it requires some functions from the bios, but its not something that can easily be simulated in a driver.
Unless you want to use it as a secondary display card designated strictly to do 3d work, then you would need to have the card itself suport the platform, at a point in the boot process BEFORE linux or solaris or any other OS loads..

What would be required would be an OpenFirmware bios for the card itself, in order to have the hardware suport it..
One possible way, which could be vbery much worth looking into, is cards made for Macs, as almost all PowerMacs use OpenFirmware, so it should theoratically be possible to go and use a mac card, and simply use the already-available Linux drivers for it.
But other than either using a Mac card, it would be very dificult to getting it to work on any sparc system, unless someones got enough time on their hands to port the BIOS of the card itself to Openfirmware...
(which has been done before, there were 2 attempts at porting the nVidia TNT and TNT2 chipset's BIOSes to trhe Mac, but they were never stable enough, untill after 3DFX had released the mac drivers for their cards, making it more or less a moot point)

Re:why bother

[jmenezes]

While true that Linux will (sadly) always run better on X86, once you get to the point that you have a card properly workin on the box, it minimizes the work needed to port the driver from Linux to Solaris.
and just because it would be a 3dcard, it wouldnt mean that the purpose would be to play games...
esp since most games are x86-specific.
But once the hardware is working, getting it suported by other OSs on that platform will be easier then say, trying to write a driver from scratch without knowfing if the hardware config is properly working first.

Re:It works for Macs, Why not Sparcs?

[Omega996]

doesn't the firmware on alphas have provisions for emulating some of the x86 bios calls? i thought there was something about x86 emulation on the alphalinux.org FAQ.

Can't do it

[duffbeer703]

x86 PCI video cards are designed to interface with a PC BIOS, which is completely different than OpenBoot. Unless you plan on hacking both OpenBoot and your video card bios, you should probaly just wait until the 3d cards start appearing cheap on eBay.

In addition, I've heard rumblings that the Blade 100 is using a new architecture (it will only run on SunOS 2.8 10/00 and up). So any SPARC linux distributions will not be working on it right away anyway.

If you are going to get one of these, I suggest running Solaris 8 on it. You'll be running a new flavor of Unix, but learning a new Unix flavor never hurt anybody.

x86 on Solaris pointless

[samrolken]

I agree with those who say what is the point. If you want cheap hardware, just stick to x86. If you want to pay the money, get solaris. quit complaining either way... not to say it wouldn't be nice.

In theory...

[Gangis]

In theory, it's possible, but that doesn't mean it'll work. There are no official drivers for, say, a GeForce 2 MX, for Solaris on their site. I don't know about native support, but... If a GeForce 2 MX will work, you can buy a 32mb model for $70 at www.ocie.com, called an Inno3D Tornado GeForce 2 MX.

Probably

[Ekman]

At the hardware level, PCI compliant is PCI compliant. If a Sun box has a PCI bus then you can plug any PCI card into it. The trick is getting drivers. If you're running Solaris, this means that you're pretty much stuck with PCI cards that say they're for a Sun. I have not seen a lot of PCI video cards marketed to PC users that include Solaris drivers.

Things are cheerier if you run Linux. According to the faq [ultralinux.org] a PCI card will generally work in the UltraSparc version if it works in the i386 version. But that isn't a guarantee. Sometimes a driver writer makes assumptions about the underlying platform that don't hold for other platforms.

You'll probably find that the biggest problem isn't individual PCI cards, but rather getting Linux to run on the thing at all. Although at under $1k this shouldn't be a problem for too long--assuming the Blade architecture is close to other UltraSparc machines, anyway.

It would also be worth looking at NetBSD's UltraSparc port [netbsd.org].

hmmm

[nomadic]

While a neat idea, I don't think this is as trivial as the poster makes it out to be. What do you think?

What do I think? Hmmmm...I think it IS that trivial..

That aside, I wouldn't mind finding the answer myself, though openwindows on my ancient sparc probably wouldn't go much faster...

Actually, if anyone has ANY information on what PC hardware will work on a Sun, I'd be interested to see it. I haven't been able to find much online, such as PC/Sun compatibility lists...
--

why bother

[mperham]

Perhaps I'm missing the point? Why bother with Sun hardware if you are just going to run linux on it? x86 is much better supported and will be faster and cheaper to upgrade. If you are going to use sun hardware, you should not be concerned about the price of a 3d card. --- add t to email

I'm probably violating an NDA here...

[Anonymous Coward]

...so I'm posting anonymously. The 3d cards in the Sun Blades (and Ultras) don't actually use a standard PCI interface. If a third party is willing to supply 3d graphics hardware for Sun, then Sun will give them specs for a proprietary "high speed" PCI bus resulting in performance similar to AGP.