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Games Entertainment

Is The Classic RPG Making A Comeback? 18

Posted by Cliff from the putting-the-roles-back-in-role-playing dept.
sundance asks: "Despite Wizards of the Coast's Microsoft-like domination of tabletop RPGs there may be a revival under way for some of those old RPG worlds we used to love. Runequest's Glorantha has been back for a while now with a new game system and new products including a computer game: King of Dragon Pass. M.A.R. Barker fans also got a boost recently with the annoucement that Tekumel is to return to print! What does Slashdot think? Is it a good sign that these old friends are returning to print or are they doomed by Wizards domination of the industry? Can an independent game survive in today's market?"
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Is The Classic RPG Making A Comeback? More

Is The Classic RPG Making A Comeback?

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  • Uhhh, monopoly?

    My FLGS has a lot of stuff not by Wizards.

    Take Steve Jackson Games, foex, they have a hugely successful line of GURPS stuff.

  • You know... I have a very vital roleplaying hobby... I've been doing it since I was 5 and got sucked into a D&D game with the baby-sitters son. I'm very happy about starting so early. It's become a life long hobby.

    LARPing seems to be the main place that I meet other gamers these days. It's become the de-facto way to meet other gamers. However through it I have met enough other gamers of all ages, such that I now play tabletop on a weekly basis again.

    As for WotC owning D&D... they're actually not bad. I grudingly admit that those that brought us Crack:The Addiction(tm), have actually done a very good job on the re-write. It is consistent (for once), and well thought out. It is a huge departure from previous editions, but keeps the flavor alive. d20 system is open so things like White Wolf releasing Ravenloft is happening.

    Sadly a lot of gaming companies are going out of business, cause while Role-players are a fanatical bunch and will stick with a game once they grow to love it, they usually aren't rich and can't afford to buy all 2,000 supplements that come out.
  • The biggest problem with this set-up has already been mentioned above... once you buy a "good" gaming system's basic rules, you don't "need" to buy anything else ever again. Therefore, the best games' companies go out of business. The only way to stay in business is to release new & different games (which eventually reaches saturation & begins losing you money on production costs), release modules/supplements (as above, useful, but not necessary & therefore not a reliable stream of income), or change the game every so often with a completely new edition. C'mon, you guys are college geeks; they do the same thing with textbooks... every so often a "new" edition forces you to stop trading the old book around & buy a new one for class. How do you think TSR stayed around as long as they did? The problem is how to mak a "good" game reliably produce money for the publisher, and I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that...

  • FASA (Score:1)

    by JEI ( 74025 )
    I've always loved FASA's RPGs, espcially if you count Battletech as a RPG. Unfortunaly, FASA has essentially gone out of business. Shadowrun has been sold, as has Battletech. I've played countless games of btech and lots of Earthdawn, liscenced to Living Room Games about a year ago. All of their products have been excellent and the Battletech fiction is really good. Michael A. Stackpole (of Star Wars: X-Wing fame) wrote some of the best of the novels, however, he due to reasions that are rather difficult to explain left, perhaps with new ownership, he'll return, please... If you're interested, I'd buy Battletech 4th Edition and the Blood of Kerensky trilogy by Stackople.

    Anybody in South Carolina/Georgia (the Augusta area) interested in playing btech, email me.
  • I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will ever return to anything like the heyday of RPGs. The market simply isn't large enough to sustain many competing game systems, especially with the release of 3rd Ed. D&D. Wizards has pretty much trounced all other competitors. It's sad.

    Of course, in a way pen and paper RPGs are kind of like Linux. It doesn't really matter if other game systems are not supported, since I can play anything I want. I don't *need* Wizards of the Coast or some other company to publish modules and books. I have everything I need to run several different systems, and the knowledge to make my own. RPGs are first and foremost games that take place within your head. It's entirely up to your imagination.

    -Vercingetorix

  • Indeed.. I used to try and think up reasons why the players in my very Eurocentric medieval campaign might somehow wind up encountering Isis out in the middle of some blasted desert.

    One of the great things about that era was that internal consistency wasn't such a big deal. Remember Arduin? Totally imbalanced game, but fun as hell, until the Thunder Bunnies showed up, then it was all over.. ;-)

  • If you think about it, there are many ways to enjoy a game world. Picture AD&D in this light:

    1) Pencil and paper (you'd be better served with RQ imho, but that's another matter)

    2) On your computer, using one of the many AD&D branded video games

    3) On your home theater, by watching the... well, let's face it, atrocious D&D movie.

    Greg Stafford's Glorantha has persevered over the years, even when Avalon Hill drove a stake through it's heart in the late 80s/early 90s. Now finally more products are being released for Glorantha, but a core of dedicated fans have kept it going, just like Star Trek fans kept the franchise going in the dark years between the demise of the first show and the movies.

    Really imaginative, well-created worlds have lives of their own. Witness the return of LotR to public consciousness. Finally, *three* live-action movies are being made about a world that was created a half-century ago. In the interim, Iron Crown Enterprises did some great work with their Middle Earth role-playing suppliments. I'm thinking a video game isn't too far-fetched an idea.

    The Internet has certainly helped to keep these worlds alive. I would never have imagined that so many people are still into Glorantha (some to a distressing degree), but there are many sources of info about it online.

  • I used to build plastic models when I was a kid. Lots and lots and lots of them. I would spend countless hours reading the latest techniques in FineScale Modeller, wondering if I'd ever get good enough at it to win a diorama contest.

    Then in 7th grade, I heard some strange discussions in the school library. "Asmodeus could kick any Gold Dragon's ass!" I was intreagued, and before long I was playing Basic D&D, then AD&D (I vividly remember when the first hardbound Dieties and Demigods appeared.. droool). Then I moved on to Aftermath!, RuneQuest, and countless others. Over the years I burned countless thousands of hours running pencil and paper RPGs. Finally my gaming tapered off as college came to a close.

    Now, ten years after college, I'm gaming again, but only once every three months, with the same guys I gamed with in high school and college. It's fun, and we thoroughly enjoy our games of RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, but to be honest, it's really primarily an excuse for us to get together and have fun.

    When I get older still, and I've got lots of free time on my hands, I may get back into plastic models. But like most things that are really fun, building models takes time, which is something I don't have much of these days.

    Like plastic modelling, pencil and paper games are dying out slowly, as a result of competition from the overwhelmingly visual, instant-gratification flavor of computer and console games that can be played alone, in short bursts or for long periods of time.

    I'm looking forward to Neverwinter Nights. Maybe it will truly spark a new revolution.

  • (I vividly remember when the first hardbound Dieties and Demigods appeared.. droool).

    I have fond memories of that as well. Mmmm...what was the name of that Finnish goddess of pain again? It was like pr0n, except you could buy it and act all superior and intellectual. "The artwork is just a faithful representation of the source material's earthy vitality.":)
  • I think your right about returing to the "heydey", when enough people played D&D to induce paranoia in the people who didn't. But with competition with video games I'm suprised even WOC bother's anymore unless RPG is much bigger in other regions of the USA, it seems pretty much dead where I am. Who needs a company at all, anyway, several gaming systems are available on the web, for free. www.worldforge.org, a computer RPG developement project, is based on a free "traditional" gaming system for instance.

  • ...is the market over saturated with roleplaying games, or under?

    I think it is oversaturated. Steve Jackson seems to have the view that most people will try D&D (or maybe Star Wars) first and when/if they get sick of that, they'll try GURPS. White Wolf seems to be in a similar position. I honestly don't see any reason why TSR/WotC won't continue to own the beginner's market, especially with the recent D&D movie.

    If I were to go into the game publishing business today, my first focus would be d20/D&D compatable supplements (adventures and campaign settings). That's getting to be a crowded market though, but I think there is always room for good content.

    I would start with some free electronic downloads (PDF) from a web site (and newsgroups). I would also send playtest copies (photocopies or cheap printing) to local gaming groups and see if any local shops would carry them.

    If you're serious about a new RPG system and have the money to back it, I would try very hard to get it into the big chain bookstores (Borders, B&N, Waldenbooks). Their current selections are very sparse and you could really stand out.

  • Ever consider doing a small number of initial prints yourselves and selling them on eg EBay or your own site, and then when you've got people going crazy for it, walk up to a larger publisher and ask for $$$? Basically start a cult following, get lots of publicity over doing it all by hand to start with, and then use the free publicity to launch yourselves into the market properly. I'd buy a set.
  • I used to love Star Frontiers. The rules were rather simple, but I expanded them and used a Cyberpunk campaign that took place exclusively on Earth.

    In my campaign some of the Asian countries (based entirely upon their geographic location, not race) were being controlled by an alien and the governments were starting to go to war with the rest of the world. The alien was providing Japan with the technology to actually go to war with the rest of the world. The campaign started in the sewers of Tokyo, all the party members were caucasion, hence they had to remains unseen or covered up in public from the Japanese.

    At first, the party was just trying to excape from the island of Japan, but eventually, they uncovered secrets took them back into Tokyo as they tried to uncover who/what was controlling the island of Japan. By then, most of the countries were at war with Japan.

    The culmination of the campaign was going to be when the player characters went to Siberia to kill the alien. They did figure out that it was an alien and it was living in siberia, but before the PCs could arrange for transportation to Siberia, many of the players (myself included) went away to college. The campaign was left in a 'hanging' state.

    How many other wonderfully planned campaigns have been broken up this way?

  • My brother and I are developing our own roleplaying system (aren't we all), and are hoping to get it published. I think we've got a perfect target audience, and we've got high hopes for the book (again, don't we all).

    What I want to know is, is the market over saturated with roleplaying games, or under? I honestly can't make up my mind! Whenever I go somewhere selling roleplaying games, the shelves are full, packed even, with RPGs.

    However, most of the books on those shelves are of similar genre (tons of AD&D naturally, Rifts, GURPS, ect), and the majority of the products are just suppliments for mega-established games.

    But this still makes me wonder if there is room for the "little guy" out there.
  • As a freelance writer, I find RPGs to have an incredible amount of potential depth and character, something even the best computer RPG cannot possibly match. Imagination is a much more powerful tool than a really good graphic artist (or, to use an old movie analogy, the first rule of a good horror movie is to NEVER show the monster. The audience is far more frightened by what their imagination can conjour up than what the art college boys can cook up with latex).

    If you have a talented writer as a GM, the possibilities are endless, and rewarding. I'm sorry, but computer games simply cannot compete.

    Yet.

    Neverwinter Nights is introuducing some very interesting things that will begin to level the playing field a bit. Not only can you create cities, adventures, characters, ect... but the gamemaster interacts while the game is going on, and can take on the roles of any NPCs he or she wants to. This level of interaction has great possibilities in constructing a fluid, dynamic storyline that the players can enjoy. I'm interested to see where this goes.

    But I can't help but feel that traditional roleplaying will have a single advantage, and that is you are forced to rely on your imagination, and nothing else.
  • whitewolf does the Vampire:the Masquerade and Werewolfe RPG's we play those alot around here and we have a campaign of about 10 people playin' with all the books to good series check it out

  • Although certainly Wizards is a dominant force in the Pen-and-Paper (PnP) RPG market, it's by no means the only company on the block, nor is it a Microsoft-like Goliath with only a few paltry Davids as competition. White Wolf games are still very popular, and for many are the first introduction into PnP gaming. The White Wolf LARP rules attract alot of theater types, which then gravitate toward the PnP games.

    Also, even though FASA has closed it's doors, the Shadowrun and Battletech games have been transferred to another company. These games have loyal followers as well. And I'm sure Steve Jackson Games isn't going to roll over and die any time soon. And there are hundreds of companies still putting out product on a regular basis, ranging from the classics to new and unique systems.

    In fact, I see Wizards as being a good thing for the roleplaying community. Granted, not everyone likes the AD&D "high fantasy" genre. And quite a few people who do like it have been outraged by the rules change evident in 3rd edition--the same people who took five years to get over their outrage when 2nd edition came out. Whether you love AD&D or hate it, love 3E or hate it, you have to admit that it's breathing new life into roleplaying games, and bringing over some new gamers who had previously only played twitch games on some console. And it's also providing a way for new RPG publishers to get a foothold in the market.

    Unlike TSR, Wizards won't sue your ass if you want to make a game module and print it without their permission. All you have to do is put the Open Gaming Licence [opengamingfoundation.org] in your module or game supplement, and you can slap a "D20" logo which officially marks it as "D&D compatible". How many of us older gamers remember the glory days of Role Aids game supplements? It sickened me when T$R went after the little guys with their evil lawsuits, and persecuted them for the crime of wanting to contribute to the gaming community. But now, anyone can create adventure modules, monster guides, sourcebooks, and whole campaign worlds, and sell them with no royalty fees whatsoever, getting 100% of the profit of those sales.

    Doesn't sound like the policies of a monopoly to me...

  • There are upwards of 3-500 thousand Role-players in the US. Counting tabletop and live action.

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