Has Free Software Saved Any Schools? 462
morcego asks: "I think
everyone remembers the case of PCs
for Kids, the Australian group that donates computers for the
poor children, when Microsoft asked them lots of money for the software
on the computers they donated. I am trying to convince schools to start
using free software, and I have heard arguments like 'all free software
initiatives in public schools around the world have failed.' I know this
is not true, but I need cases to show them. So, do you know of any school
(public or not), or other educational institution that has been saved from
paying large amounts of money (and closing its doors) by free
software?" For those interested in this topic, you'll probably
want to read up on the latest salvo in the Microsoft
private
antitrust settlement. It sounds like education, and Open Source, may
now have an official relationship, and things are now getting kicked
into high gear. While it's good to hear about the "SchoolForge" coalition
(no relation to SourceForge or
NewsForge), what educational resources
are currently available to schools from the Open Source arena?
Here's One (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My boxen are haxored but I'm still l33t (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, well I'd punch you back, and then we'd be boxen.
Hmmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
How about "source code"?
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2, Funny)
Besides, hardware configuration stopped being an issue under Linux very recently. The last time I had to configure something manually was RedHat 6.0. Ever since RedHat 6.2, the Kudzu(spelling on that? I rarely invoke it manually) program run at bootup would detect any hardware changes. Makes swapping IDE devices, PCI devices, and even ISA PnP devices very easy -- just boot up. Puts the Windows "Windows requires that you touch your nose three times, stand on your head, and insert the disk labelled "I downloaded this off the internet" to continue." device installation to shame.
Remember, in a place like a school, with a bunch of bored kids, there will be a sysadmin ready to fix any problems which arise from the kids antics("I put my comb in the floppy drive, now it's stuck in there!"). Sticking a boot disk into a drive to install Linux over FTP or NFS is a piece of cake(assuming the floppy drive works
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, if you have seen what they pay sysadmins in many districts, you will know that it could be quite difficult to hire a good admin that knows Linux as well as MS or whatever.
I'm not saying to give up hope; I'm just putting more light on the situation.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
As for it supposedly being more difficult to hire a good admin that knows Linux, it just doesn't seem to hold true. There are just as many good admins out there who know Linux as there are that know MS. Chances are it will be difficult to hire a good admin for what school districts pay, but it shouldn't be any more difficult for Linux than for MS. Look around at salary surveys -- experienced admins don't get paid that much differently based on platform.
I think you need to examine your light again because you are buying into too many of the MS marketing promises that don't hold up. They want you to believe that any idiot who buys a bunch of "Exam Cram" books and gets a little certificate (after paying them a nice chunk of change) is qualified to administer your network. But it is a false economy to hire an idiot to administer your network because -- you then have an idiot administering your network.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2)
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2)
When I was a lad (back in the "good old days") our computer studies teacher was a waste of space (and there was a lot of her occupying a lot of space!). The school computers back then were BBC B's - marvellous! Anyway, she knew shit about the whole thing, and basically had to be tutored from scratch on how to run a network by those of us pupils who knew about how it worked. I mean, not just unfamiliar with methods on that network, but with the whole concept.
More often than not, you'll find the computer studies teacher is someone who'd previously done maths or something at uni, and happens to know more than the other teachers about computers. This does not mean they're any damn good at it!
I realise I'm generalising here, but schools really can't afford a good sysadmin - hell, most can't afford teachers and books!
Grab.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2)
What kind of barbarian are you?!?!?
Seriously though, the Linux distos I've installed recently have had excellent cd-boot, much better than Windows. The only reason you'd need a floppy is if you're BIOS doesn't support boot from CD.
Definately have to agree about the sorry state of Windows "PnP", though.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2)
Assuming that their existing hardware is fairly homogenous (not much of a stretch, since most schools buy their PCs in $50-100k chunks) they could deal with the install the same way they deal with their current Windows installs: One drive image that get's cloned to whatever drive needs it. Anyone who doesn't believe that school computers get reimaged at least once a month is living in a fantasy land. Kids are remarkably ingeneous when it comes to hosing up computers. The idea of relying on a preinstall with rescue disks in that environment is insane. They'd have to have techs working 24/7.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:5, Informative)
School district admins wouldn't even listen to a suggestion of putting Linux on desktops. The rational? Well, I've listed a few:
1) "The kids need to learn on the types of computers that they will be using in a typical office. They need to know how to use Word and Excel."
- I know they could develop the same skills by using an alternative, but the name recognition thing is really important. Parents would be up in arms at the next school board meeting if they heard their kids weren't going to learn about spreadsheets using Excel.
2) "We can't run Accelerated Reader and the other programs that are essential to teaching on Linux."
- This is a huge argument. AR is used a lot in most schools. It helps teachers not actually have to teach anything. If you're not familiar with it, it's a pretty simple program that tests a students understanding of a book after they have read it. There was some chance of using the old DOS version on Linux, but we haven't been able to run the Windows version under wine. The program would be trivial to duplicate, but the real value is in all of the thousands of tests that are available for it.
3) "Windows doesn't cost that much money for us, and most of our grants specify a certain portion of the funds for software purchase."
- This is true. I know we where spending like $21 for a Windows 98 license, $45 for NT. And, the federal grants that we where writing (and helped spend the money from
4) "We don't need to worry about maintaining desktops. Each teacher has a boot disk for all of the machines in their room that will automatically reimage the system if there is some sort of problem. Network apps and updates are provided via NAL or something similiar based on the user logged in, so we don't even have to touch a system to allow access to new programs."
- The same system could be used by Linux, but because the same thing could be said about Windows it doesn't help the argument in their minds.
Now I want to be clear that every one of the school systems that I worked in had at least one, usually quite a few, Linux boxes performing functions behind the scenes. After talking to some of the IT directors recently I found that these boxes where all just running perfectly. And they loved that, they just run.
an interesting site (Score:4, Informative)
link to several case studies (Score:5, Informative)
What about foreign schools? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about foreign schools? (Score:3, Interesting)
One blessing.... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:One blessing.... (Score:4, Interesting)
This is an important point. Most of the grade school teachers I've ever met who deal with computers have the attitude that anything short of organized for-profit software piracy is okay because they're teachers. They *have* to teach students on a limited budjet, are used to stretching any school supply just as far as it will go, and see copying software they've bought for home use, or ordering only one copy of windows to install on every computer in a lab as a necessity.
This is the same thing as making xerox copies out of a book to hand out to their students, as far as most of them are concenred.
Now, I'm personally inclined to agree with the morality of this little ethical short cut. I have a lot of problems with software licenses, and I think it would be a wonderful thing if being a teacher really meant you were exempt from copyright law for educational purposes.
You can bet that Microsoft, Adobe, Corel, and the other members of the BSA don't agree with me, however.
If you start stressing this fact, Free Software just starts seeming like a better and better idea in the classroom.
Re:One blessing.... (Score:2)
Grab.
I'd say so, yes. (Score:5, Informative)
A couple guys I know of started an organization called the OSEF, or Open Source Education Foundation. They basically assemble machines and networks from spare parts, go out to a school and install the gear, free of charge. I know of at least one school they've helped, in downtown Tucson. About a dozen machines remotely administrated from a central server in the back room. Google for them, you might find a link or two.
Corbett School in Tucson (Score:5, Informative)
"As such, they're entirely unimpressed that Corbett is among a mere handful of primary schools around the world with a computer network that runs Linux, the flagship of the fashionable free software movement. They probably can't appreciate the amount of money the school is saving, or the thousands of hours that Linux devotee Harry McGregor has donated to transform a collection of PCs past their prime into a Net-connected laboratory that's ahead of its time."
"A lab similar to Corbett's could cost the district $100,000 or more if it were set up with new computers and commercial software. Instead, the school spent just $12,000 to convert its donated PCs into a Linux network that offers similar access to the Net and educational programs. Moreover, Corbett's pupils will gain experience with an operating system that's becoming more popular every day."
http://www.osef.orgarticles_and_letters/azstar/wh
It isn't just free software (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:2, Insightful)
Besides which, it sounds as if you are saying that a Windows alternative would require _less_ maintenance than a Unix solution. If a teacher has the skills to handle a Unix system, then that configuration will require a lot less time than the eqwuivalent Microsoft solution.
-sirket
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:2)
Horseshit. Any non-trivial setup needs quite a bit of maintainence, and a school needs a non-trivial setup if you want to get any non-trivial use out of it. Otherwise it's doorstop PCs in the wings of the physics class getting used by half a dozen kids a year.
The answer for small schools is going to have to be outsourcing.
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:4, Interesting)
As long as there are no users being added, no programs being added, and you only have a handful of systems, you might be right.
But let's say you have 200 systems, with a mean time between failures of 56,000 hours each.
That's one failure every 12 days, more or less.
A school has dozens or hundreds of systems, with much shorter MTBF on the physical hardware, and has hundreds of students using those machines. They require security monitoring, hardware replacement, software configuration and upgrading; near-constant attention, if it's larger than one server and a handful of clients.
If I take any one of my servers and point at it and base my manpower computations on that server alone, the numbers will look deceptively like I can do it all myself. When I broaden my sights out to all of the several hundred large servers I manage, I instead get a 7-man team rotating on-call duties between 3 production and 5 test projects, and the thought of doing it all myself becomes laughable.
A typical school is somewhere in the middle if you want to use computers for education, instead of (as I said) sticking a few PCs in the physics lab and letting the brightest students do WTF the want with them.
If you just want to stick a file server in the secretary's office and put a PC on each of the administrator's desks, you're probably right. But I'm talking about a school using computers for educating the kids, not a school using computers near the kids.
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:3, Informative)
Actually this is precisely why Linux has the potential to be such a big win. Rolling out software to Windows desktops requires a ton of work, maintaining each of those fragile beasts requires even more work. Have you ever seen the systems at your typical school. They are a mess.
Now imagine that the school took their money and bought one commodity Intel-based server and a great big pile of inexpensive thin-clients (like the ThinkNic). Adding or updating the software for your system now is a snap. You upgrade your server and the clients have immediate access to the new software. No CDs to lug around, no reboots, no problems. Heck, the administrator wouldn't even have to be on site. One quick "apt-get install foo-package" and it's done. Accounting, security, and other user management tools have existed for Unix forever. You can easily set quotas for nearly every resource that is available to end users and you can monitor your Linux server to the nth degree without leaving the comfort of your bedroom.
Thin clients have been seen as the systems administrator's Nirvana for years, but it wasn't until Linux came along that there was really any useful software that would run on these systems. However, the combination of StarOffice + Mozilla is starting to look like a compelling combination. Especially in places like schools where money is tight and where it is important that the computers both allow easy collaboration and tight security. All of the students would essentially be sharing the same machine (making it easy to work on projects together), but none of them would have write access to any system files (much better security than Windows PCs).
The trick of course, is in removing the PCs. That would leave the school with one server and a pile of essentially disposable devices. If you think replacing Windows PCs with Linux PCs, then you are almost certainly correct, the Linux solution would be more difficult to administer (or more expensive anyway as it would require a much more savvy administrator). However, if you replaced the hordes of Windows PCs with a single Linux server then even the slowest Windows admin could probably find the time to learn to administer Linux.
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:2)
Political reality (Score:2)
Re:Political reality (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:2)
Even if this is true (which it really isn't), you're thinking of the amount of maintenance required when a relatively tech-savvy person is using it.
Now, think about schools. There are multiple users going on/off the computer each day, installing things, deleting things, many of the students *trying* to mess the system up. There is a lot more maintenance when (for example) 1 out of 10 students is trying to crash the machine so they don't have to do work. My mom teaches high school--she has had students do a lot of crazy shit to the computers, from deleting software to cutting the friggin power cords with scissors. Now, *that* kind of stuff doesn't happen in the real employment world.
Re:It isn't just free software (Score:2)
If its a high school, you have the computer class run the operations. Perferable the new student would be traind by student who where doing it the previouse year, under supervision, of course.
An anonymous school in Ontario, Canada (Score:5, Informative)
In addition to that, we use Linux in our Cisco networking academies classroom because we can't get any of the software we would need under NT (no doubt it exists, but it would be hard to find, possibly expensive, and likely non-standard). We can use the free FTP, TFTP, and HTTP servers on paticularly ancient PCs(one of our more powerful machines is a 75 Mhz machine with two gigs of SCSI drive!) without the hassles of running Windows (windows will now reboot...).
There was a plan a few years ago to turn the ancient machines on the network into X clients, for which they would be quick, but they are now sluggish W2K machines.
ahh, open source (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:ahh, open source (Score:2, Interesting)
Keep dreaming. (Score:2, Insightful)
You wouldn't expect your teachers to work for free, but you expect highly skilled software developers to give their work away. Think again, my friend.
Re:Keep dreaming. (Score:2)
As for MS-Office being the standard file formats, that is true for now, but unless you've got some kind of crystal ball, it is dangerous to make a prediction on that not changing in the future. If you went back 10 years, and told people that Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 wouldn't be the standard file formats in a couple of years, people would have looked at you with the same kind of disbelief that you do now regarding MS-Office. If you went back 10 years further it was WordStar and VisiCalc. Things change, and few people will accurately predict the way things will be in the future, especially not those without a view of the past.
Do I have a problem paying for software? No, if it is worth it. Am I going to pay for something I can get free? Probably not. And I certainly don't want to pay money for software that isn't worth it. And frankly, that is what I think about most of Microsoft's products, especially since it seems like their prices have gone up over the years.
Do I expect highly skilled software developers to give their work away? No, at least not unless they want to. But do they? Yes, and I thank them for that.
Re:Keep dreaming. (Score:2, Insightful)
Take a hint from Ximian's frontman, Miguel. He's not a glaringly anti-Microsoft person. At least he's honest enough to admit that they've done some things right. I mean, Evolution is a blatant Outlook clone, people. Sheesh.
Re:ahh, open source (Score:2)
Get a list of costs for the Win system
Get a list of costs for the Linux system.
Be sure to include the costs of any upgrades that may be neccessary.
Be sure they understand Windows new Liscensing.
Make them get a lawyer review both liscense.
Point out the eduacational benifit of each system.
Explain to parents that little Jimmy's education(and there tax dollars)is being wasted on upgrades and liscencing fees.
Have them go to the school board.
Another appraoch, talk to local politicians who use education on there platform, and inform them of how much money they can save the system, and how forward thinking about education they would be by going with a system that encourges learning, is cheaper, and has all the tools they need, so no application costs on top of the OS costs.
Computer Lab (Score:4, Informative)
Sofia, Bulgaria (Score:2, Informative)
so, it looks like this:
-Linux for advanced students and general management
-NT for beginners
Stuyvesant High School (Score:3, Informative)
-sirket
Northern Territory Schools, Australia (Score:2, Informative)
This article [opensourceschools.org] on OpenSourceSchools.org relates how Australia's Northern Territory has just completed an installation of state- wide network infrastructure in all schools that is based on Linux LAN servers and makes wide use of open source software. I was very impressed with their accomplishment. They use SquirrelMail (PHP) for the mail, and the network infrastructure is Linux. The desktops are all Win 98 but they do include StarOffice as the productivity app so would save some more cash there.
My experience over the last 3 months of OpenSourceSchools.org is that while a complete takeover of Linux in schools is unlikely, there are many places where costly licensing can be replaces with OS equivalents to great savings.
Open Source In Schools NOW! (Score:5, Informative)
This movement is gaining ground. Here's a ton of sites:
Start with Why Use Open Source Software In Schools [edge-op.org] to answer your (and your superior's!) questions. Note that Microsoft is trying to keep a stranglehold on this and their salesmen are playing dirty; but we as free software activists have one thing they can not have: integrity. Teach the truth about Open Source, explain that this is the true American way, show how we need to use it in education to teach kids the right way to do things (and to share with neighbors) to make a productive world, and we'll go at it. Academia can't afford to lose itself in proprietary software; as this site explains, with free software we've got a chance for a blossoming in academia.
The K12 Linux in Schools Project [k12.or.us]
A good example is St. John's School [st-johns.org.uk] in the UK (attention, USA education boards!)
Open Source and Education [beaconschool.org] tells you how to do it, what you need to know.
Linux in Higher Education: Open Source, Open Minds, Social Justice [linuxjournal.com] is an important article in Linux Journal about this.
K12 Linux Terminal Server Project for Schools [k12ltsp.org] is just one of the things you can do.
K-12 Linux [k12linux.org], another good site about this.
A good technical primer on Linux in Education [iteachnet.com]
If you use free software in schools you will also need free documentation and training materials. Here is a list of the best of it [linuxnovice.org].
(Pls mod this up guys, I'm posting anon...)
Also in belize. (Score:3)
Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I think it would be wrong to try to foist Free Software upon unwitting schools before they knew what they were getting into. There is a very important reason that Linux has stayed at about .25% of desktop market share: it makes a crappy end-user desktop. Sure, you can use it on your network servers for Samba and mail and the like, but I would hesitate to train children on a system that will be ultimately useless to them when they get out into a world dominated by Microsoft software. Because, like it or not, high school is, for most, valuable job training before they leave high school and enter the work force, be that as secretaries using MS Office or accountants using Excel, etc. When you teach them to use software that is completely irrelevant outside of school, you are crippling them for life as they have to retrain themselves on all the applications that school had taught them in order to use something as commonplace as Office.
Not to mention the numerous administration headaches that would result from your everyday highschool computer teacher trying to figure out Linux, let alone teach it. I personally could not imagine my glorified typing teacher in high school comprehending file permissions, much less understanding something as arcane as TeX or vi.
All in all, its probably a better idea to stick with something like Macs which have a proven track record in education as well as most of the common office applications that can be found on Windows computers as well. Free Software has its place, but it certainly isn't on the desktop.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2)
Don't you think this is a tad, erm, extreme? You think that using StarOffice (or whatever) instead of MS Office is going to mean that they are going to have big problems when they start work? Is MS Word really that different to be "completely irrelevant".
Anyway, school is about learning, not training, at least not where I come from. If an employer is unwilling to send new young recruits on a course to learn MS Office (if that's what they use) then they will have badly trained staff - the employers fault, not the schools.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:5, Insightful)
Crippling them for life? By teaching them something? Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. So are adults.
What kids need to learn about computers is not what keystroke combination does what in Application X. Teach them the principles of computer operation.
Open source, in my opinion, is of immense use in education, precisely because it is open. Students can not only learn to use apps, but can delve as far into the system as their curiosity takes them.
Schools should not be vocational training centers (for the most part). I mean, sure, there could be a Microsoft Office class, to learn how to use that software suite. That would be a vocational class, and it could have its place. But it shouldn't be the focus. Schools should not be fundamentally vocational.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:5, Insightful)
How horribly untrue. For many, if not most, high school is a path to college. We shouldn't be teaching kids the ins and outs of whatever is the hot topic of today, because that can change quickly. When I started high school (1992), we were still using DOS. Not terribly valuable today. We should be teaching them how to learn. This would involve exposing them to as many computer interfaces as possible (Win, Mac, Linux), so that they learn the basin functionality of an interface and can learn a new interface relatively quickly. By limiting them to one single interface style, they have trouble understanding the difference between the operating system, the interface to that system, and the software that runs on it. Not to mention the numerous administration headaches that would result from your everyday highschool computer teacher trying to figure out Linux, let alone teach it. I personally could not imagine my glorified typing teacher in high school comprehending file permissions, much less understanding something as arcane as TeX or vi.
There's no reason a teacher would have to use TeX or vi. StarOffice would do quite nicely as a word processor/spreadsheet combo. It has all the functionality a school could want. All in all, its probably a better idea to stick with something like Macs which have a proven track record in education as well as most of the common office applications that can be found on Windows computers as well.
It's that kind of attitude that keeps our schools impoverished and our kids learning-impaired. If we showed them three different word processors, they would realize that they all do pretty much the same thing. Suddenly, they learn that change isn't scary. They learn how to adapt, and become more dynamic students. They learn that computers are just machines that follow instructions, and can be changed to suite the user's need. Those skills are way more important than knowing how to set a page break in Word XP.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2, Informative)
I learned to use a word processor on a very strange old Amstrad. Then I worked on macs for a while. Then I had to switch to Windows when I went off to university.
Now, I am comfortable using basic office software at an intermediate/expert level under mac, windows, linux, and am confident that I could learn to use basic office software under any given OS.
Teaching to one set of office software is pointless. Eventually it will be outmoded, whatever it is. Teach kids to be comfortable with computers, and comfortable teaching themselves to use new software. It'll do them much more good than harm in the long term.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2)
People use what they know and are taught what is in the marketplace.
So, if you teach people Free Software, they will use Free Software. And when they use Free Software, their kids will be taught Free Software. Or, you can continue the vicous cycle where you learn MS Office because that is what is used in the world, and because you know it you use it, and because that is what is used in the world your kids learn it...
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2)
Actually I don't believe that is true. I think that most high school graduates go on to attend some form of college. I don't think that a very large percentage of kids learn enough in just high school to get a good enough job that they would be using a computer much. If you only have a high school diploma you are probably going to be stuck flipping burgers, hammering nails on a construction site or bagging groceries rather than working in an office.
And as for children learning one software package and it having no applicability to the "real world" unless it is the exact package that they will encounter later -- I don't buy it. There isn't that much difference between one GUI word processor and another or one GUI spreadsheet and another. Or for that matter one desktop environment and another. Just about all of them have some kind of pop up application "start" menu, and icons on the desktop you can click. Just about all applications have a menu bar, tool bar, etc. If you know one, you can figure out anything else in a short period of time.
As for your assertation that Linux makes a crappy end-user desktop, I think it is largely a myth based on people being told that and not really taking the time to look for themselves. While your typing teacher may not be able to figure out a command line or power user tools like TeX and vi, she probably wouldn't have much more trouble figuring out how to use KFM/Konqueror and StarOffice than Windows Exployer/IE and Microsoft Office.
As someone who uses a KDE desktop on a daily basis, I just can't agree with you about free software not having its place on the desktop. Even some of my Windows using coworkers are using StarOffice instead of Microsoft Office because there is no reason to spend a lot of money on something they don't use all that much.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2)
Would any lessons learned on Office 97 become irrelivant when Office 2000 came out (and the same for XP)? Microsoft reworks the interface with every new version. Does someone taught on a new version need to be retaught?
Of course not. If the students are taught properly, then they should be able to go from one version to another, one program to another. A word processor is a word processor, regardless of the platform or package.
As Linux matures and administration becomes less complex, the savings of not having to buy licences to Microsoft software becomes clear.
A little side note here... The reason Microsoft wanted to "settle" with the government by giving away software to schools is to prevent this from occuring. They'd put themsleves on a level playing field with Linux by taking cost out of the equation.
Since when is free software only in Linux (Score:2)
There are a host of free software applications available for many OSes including MS Windows.
This, not to mention that, Linux distributions have achieved the point where most previously 'complexe' administration tasks are now done inside friendly GUI applications.
GNU's Not Unix is an acronym with a meaning that seems sadly forgotten in some of these discussions.
I personally think that teaching teenagers why they should be concerned about their intellectual heritage and about free software an important proposition regardless of what OS they are running.
Re:Free software + education == BAD IDEA! (Score:2)
Which is exactly why the original thread about how MS Windows was so great for education was so off base. Is it the easiest to use? Yes. Does it have the most applications and games available for it? Yes. But all of this doesn't mean that you shouldn't use Linux in the classroom. The cost savings are what really matter here. Linux is free, as are many programs for it. Windows and Mac OS X, are not. Period.
If the kids don't like Linux, then fine, they can use WindowsXP at home on their own. My private school had Mac's and Apple IIG's back in the day too, but I didn't like them. So what, I still learned some simple computer operations on them, and used the budding new Windows PC at home. The tools will not make or break the students, the student's willingness to learn will make or break the student. Therefore, for your school's (and most importantly, teacher's) sake, why not save some money on the tools and use a free tool like Linux? No one NEEDS a $200 government-priced hammer, after all.
StarOffice is being used! (Score:5, Interesting)
For those of you who don't know MJ is a city of about 30,000. My girlfriend's little sister (gr 3. I think), needed to write a letter one day when she was over visiting. I said I don't have Office, but I have staroffice which is pretty much the same. "Don't worry that is what we are learning in school". I was shocked and thrilled.
I am 99% sure that they were using a windows version of StarOffice, but it is still free.
~S
Re:StarOffice is being used! (Score:2)
Microsoft shouldn't be worried about Linux, it should be worried about StarOffice. After all, people get the operating system "for free" and Linux still doesn't have the wealth of software available for it that Windows has.
MS Office, on the other hand, is always an added expense, and it's expensive to boot. With the price of computers falling like a brick it won't be too long before the added cost of Microsoft Office doubles the price of a computer. Not only that, but there are probably more folks running Linux than folks that use a feature in MS Office that doesn't exist in StarOffice. In other words, the group of people that absolutely have to have MS Office is relatively small.
If the Office Suite were to become a commodity market Microsoft would be in a world of hurt (which is almost certainly why Sun is funding the effort).
Although... (Score:4, Interesting)
Ideally, schools would shift their software budget to a training budget to bring their support gurus up to speed. And the children would gain a comfort level with technology, though not necessarily the technology they will be using in the real world. Unfortunately, I have more questions than answers here.
I'd be interested in hearing a reasoned response to my questions. Dogmatic zealots need not apply.
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong question! (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the wrong question. The right question is why computers in school.
Learning is universial, not applied. You need to learn to reading writing, and arithmatic. There is no need for comptuers in that. Sure there are some good computer programs to help there, and typing is a skill that needs to be learned, but computers are the implimentation detail, not the meat. Until you have something to do with the comptuer there is no point in having one. Young kids need to learn to write things out by hand.
Yes computers are important to the world today, but comptuers change fast. when I first started with computers wordStar was the big program in industry. In High school they braged that we were learning the latest word processor that industry is using, wordPerfect 5.1 for dos. And at the time it was the biggest, but today everyone is using Word 2000, and looking at an upgrade to that. Teach the kids to think with whatever tool is avaiable, and you will be fine, but teach them that the tool currently in vogue is the only one to use and you do them a disservice.
Yes I know industry has a lot of obsolete, but fast enough comptuers they would love to donate to any charity that will take them, but that doesn't mean you have to take them. A computer is a means to many good ends, but do not allow a computer to become the end itself.
Re:Wrong question! (Score:2)
High school provides more than reading, writing, and arithmetic, at least beyond grade school.
Even in grade school, "edutainment" software is a very good tool to instruct children. Besides, I think you underestimate how far high school went for you. In my Senior year I was admining a network of Sun4 systems running SunOS 4.1.3 for the school. Don't think that can be done on pen and paper... Granted, this was a very different high school than normal...
In normal high schools, there are some curriculums that include at least rudimentary programming. In most other classes, as well as in libraries, computers serve as a good research tool. Also, even for something like learning typing, a computer keyboard is a lot different than, say a typewriter.
Computers have become such a ubiqitous thing in our lives that it would be insane to say the kids have no business having them in school. Yes, applications change over time, but with current versions widely used and understood, companies shy away from the idea of changing interfaces drastically anymore for fear of losing consumer loyalty.
Re:Wrong question! (Score:2)
With various standardized tests and curricula, there is little room for teachers to go beyond the text. There is little time for human interaction.
In a perfect world, teachers would be paid to teach. Supposedly they are; in reality, they are paid to read from the state mandated (and now federally mandated) instruction book.
Re:Wrong question! (Score:4, Interesting)
You are wrong. Computers are a force multiplier for teachers; rather than one thread of instruction at a time, there can be many. For $30,000, you can get one teacher or 20 computers...do the math. (Warning - minor parental boasting ahead). I have a child in kindergarten who is learning to read. Most of his classmates are not. Why? Because the school has reading software that paces itself to the student. This is a supplement to the curriculum, not the main curriculum. The kids can learn at their own pace; those who can progress farther faster have an opportunity to do so that they wouldn't have before.
So, this is nice and all, but why do I think it's necessary? Most of the world will work for pennies on the dollar compared to US workers. The only advantage future workers in the US will have are in the educational opportunities offered to them. The more opportunities my kid has, the more likely he'll be able to compete against coders in India.
In High school they braged that we were learning the latest word processor that industry is using, wordPerfect 5.1 for dos.
I assume this was in a class designed to give you a job right out of highschool; otherwise, you're correct - the curriculum designers were morons. You should have been using a multiple free word processors to study concepts common to all word-processing systems, such as cut, paste, format, etc. You should have been considering information as a stream of bytes, as in Word Perfect, or a collection of objects, as in Word. You should have learned timeless concepts, not rapidly obsoleted procedures...
do not allow a computer to become the end itself.
Hear, hear. I knew of a principal who bought computers for his school because he'd promised parents that their students would spend an hour a week using computers. As much as we all enjoyed playing Oregon Trail, I never learned anything from it. I certainly didn't learn anything by playing it week after week. On the other hand, I learned a great deal that remains with me to this day (though I'm not sure of its immediate applicability) when my science teacher had us spend an hour running a simulation of the process that seismologists use to measure the distance to epicenters of earthquakes, and using that information to pinpoint the epicenter of a quake. That one hour solidified in my mind everything we'd learned about earthqukes during the previous two weeks.
Re:Wrong question! (Score:3)
For $30,000, you can get one teacher or 20 computers...do the math.
One teacher is worth infinitely more than 20 computers. COMPUTERS ARE NOT TEACHERS, period. And I find it sad that $30,000 can get you one teacher anyway, teachers are paid way too little.
As for your earthquake example, your science teacher could have done a simulation of that same process with a couple seismograph readings, and a class set of compasses and maps. This would have saved tons of money, or at least freed up the computer lab for some other class that actually needed it.
Re:Wrong question! (Score:3, Funny)
Or the administration can renovate the conference room in the elegantly appointed downtown offices.
Given these choices, I think that the newly-retired teacher will be starting a computer sales business while the administration decides between the walnut or mahogany paneling.
Depends on the level of the student (Score:3, Insightful)
Many kids will either own computers or work with them daily after high school. Some may want to go on to work in an explicitly computer-oriented career, which however doesn't require much specific post-secondary education (hardware repair in a small shop, for instance). To the same degree as auto-mechanics (and probably far more than say, wood shop), computer education in secondary schools is a valuable addition to the curriculum.
For primary education, heavily computer-centric instruction may be overkill. But at the high school level good arguments can be made for it.
Of course, it won't be too useful to students who just want their school to subsidize their bong-building activities, but that's what metal shop is for.
Free? (Score:2, Insightful)
However, in the world of non-free software, where "review copies" of software can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars, it gets a lot more tricky. I have had plenty of personal experience with people (myself included!) who want to write reviews of product X in order to get a free copy. And that can definitely influence what you write...
"I'm not joking. I'm really running for President." - Pat Robertson
Kabul elementary (Score:5, Funny)
h3llz y3ah! phr33 s0ftwar3 sav3d my sk00l! (Score:4, Insightful)
Now the entire library network is running XP Server!!!
Free software r0x0rs!!!
- A.P.
our high school uses apache (Score:5, Interesting)
The success of our web server allowed us to push for a perl/apache/linux-based attendance system that let us get rid of scan-tron sheets to be filled in every morning. Now, our teachers open up their web browsers in the morning, log in, and they check off their absent students 1st period. In the afternoon, they can check who was here and who wasn't, and it saves us about a ream of paper per day, since we don't have to print out attendance bulletins any more. Most of the work for the attendance program was done by one of my students who was learning perl on the fly.
I also teach a class for A+ and Network+ certifications, but we cover Linux both semesters (especially when we do network security in Network+). I'm hoping that next semester, we'll be able to use Linux as the primary desktop OS for most of the networking stuff, but we'll have to see what happens.
There are two major problems, in my opinion: businesses want students who are proficient with Windows and Office, and schools don't have the resources to hire people who are competent Linux admins. If the demand for Linux users starts going up, then maybe the number of computers running Linux in schools will increase, but for now, it's probably limited to servers.
One funny tidbit - earlier this school year, Code Red and Nimda running on local districts' NT/2000 IIS web servers took down the WAN access for most of the schools in Southwest Ohio. Seems that the servers weren't patched or maintained as well as they should have been. Web servers running Apache, of course, didn't have this problem.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -Ghandi
Re:our high school uses apache (Score:2, Funny)
How much you want to bet that this kid just happens to graduate school with perfect attendance?
Re:our high school uses apache (Score:2)
Include the totla cast savinges from licensing, to paper savings. Get some of the teachers to write a couple of paragraphs on what they think of the syste.
Then send a copy to every school, teacher, and linux group you can. I would send a nice Hardcopy to the schools a teachers, and a link to a soft copy for the Linux group.
Yes, I know its a lot of effort, but I think this is an important issue for the Nation, not just to the linux community. The cost saving and educational opportunities are huge for tax payers.
SEUL.Org (Score:2, Informative)
I must protest... (Score:2, Flamebait)
But I'm not seeing an old Slackware, install-by-tarballs machine running a monochrome
monitor being installed into school desktops; anyone trying that should be shot, and allowed to admin windows for a living.
I use Redhat and Ximian here. I don't have time to put on my programmer-hat every time I install something, and the RPMs cover my ass so I don't crash libraries or something, and keep in mind I can install them from the comfort of my own desk instead of walking the halls to get to the Windows box.
And Ximian is a big help, too; their latest offerings are at least as good as Microsoft for the things that matter (Spreadsheets, Word Processing, etc) and get better every month. If you haven't tried them, now's the time to start watching; they've done a superb job.
And as for learning....how'd these people ever migrate off of WfW? And then to Win98...then to 2000? It's not the exact same thing, and that's rather the *point* isn't it?
My experiences (Score:5, Funny)
Programming (Score:3, Funny)
My story (Score:4, Insightful)
We had computers donated from Goodwill and managed to get our university microsoft rep to donate Windows.
Or first thought was to use Linux, but the schools ruled it out since none of the teachers
would have been able to use it.
We did manage to get them Office 2000, though, and
I thank the people at Microsoft that helped us with that.
Moral of the story though -- many schools are too afraid to learn new things, and that prevents free (and often better) software from taking hold.
Linux developers do need to develop a more integrated desktop. Should there be a "X-with-training-wheels" we'd see a lot more Linux users!
riverdale school (Score:4, Informative)
It could be a really good thing . . . . (Score:2, Interesting)
They're seriously considering a move from their current student lab environment (Win 9x with Novell Netware) to a Linux thin client environment - what would basically be X terms. This has huge resource allocation advantages and because it's open source - the licensing restrictions are few if any.
This could literally save them millions over the next few years (The hardware life cycle for thin clients is considerable longer, and new server hardware, while expensive, is cheaper than buying several hundred new desktops every few years - not to mention say $100 dollars per system savings against XP Pro licenses)
That millions could keep them afloat in thin times, or could mean that they can provide scholarships to needy students.
See related: K12 Linux Project [k12.or.us]
Not Saved...but aided (Score:4, Interesting)
Long story short, she told me, I pointed her to StarOffice and a few other apps that are readily available. It wasn't a difficult sell, because it was the difference between getting use out of the computers or just teaching Windows. The school wouldn't have 'collapsed' without the free software and they would have gotten the money for the applications next year, but now they can use that money to implement a replacement program for the systems they already have.
All of this goes back to the fact that there is a bias against Free licenses on software. My boss always considered them to be amateurish, less reliable, than the NAME BRAND software. Not anymore.
It's had a huge impact (Score:2)
Realistically though, free software has made a huge impact. I think the most obvious exmaple to me is the use of GCC in college classes. Hundreds of colleges use it that otherwise might not be able to teach courses behind computers. (note: you don't need a computer to teach C or C++ or to learn it, plenty of people have done it that way, I think it's a bit more enjoyable with a computer though) Compilers on multiuser UNIX systems are traditionally very expensive, as are site licenses to compilers under Windows.
I also think that there is a behind the scenes factor that has always been very hard to measure with linux. I know that my old school district, Boulder Valley Public Schools, has several Linux machines in various capacities. A couple are used as lan servers in some schools, a couple are used as firewalls and proxys and email and web servers. I'm certain that some act as bridges and routers. That's stuff that makes their life easier, serves a purpose and it's really hard to measure. Off the shelf firewalls can cost thousands of dollars. I have no idea how much it costs to buy the hardware, software and then hire someone to build you an exchange server for email or setup an email server with something non-linux.
As for teaching software and that kind of thing, I think it's still in the infancy.
European schools (and a mini-rant). (Score:5, Interesting)
Since U.S. schools aren't adeqately funded by the government, they gobble up as much of the private-sector "technology money" as they can possibly gorge themselves on; a signifigant chunk of which comes in the form of discounted licenses for Microsoft software. Kind of ironic that the school still has to buy the computers to run the software (and keep them updated); but I guess by reducing their profit margin from 99.998% to 98%, Microsoft has done their part. Those computers have to be upgraded pretty regularly, of course, and some of the money for that comes from "less worthwhile" programs -- like English, Art, Music, and History.
We are raising a generation of Americans that won't know the difference between a verb and a posessive pronoun, but they'll be able to use the Word grammar-checker, so it all works out in the end, right?
These, among other reasons, are why the U.S. imports its computer engineers from Europe and southeast Asia.
By contrast, European schools don't get the same deep discounts, and the foreign-language support in Windows is pretty horrible (although W2K has made some signifigant improvements in this area). European schools (at least in the three countries mentioned above) are supported wholly by the state, and as such don't require outside funding. This means that, for the most part, the software and hardware are chosen to fit the needs of the instructors and students, rather than to fit the discounts, freebies, and funding-with-strings requirements assigned by the technology companies.
This is why you'll find SuSE, Mandrake, and Debian pretty heavily used in many European schools (and thus, businesses).
But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.
Well, my son's grade school, for one... (Score:4, Informative)
So, we arrived at a compromise: although I wanted a straight FreeBSD shop, we settled for Linux on the desktops and FreeBSD on the servers, provided that the Linux USB support and stability improved. We still use the 2.2 kernel series with backported USB support, and are running FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE on all of the servers (which, by the way, have not been rebooted since they were installed).
When the numbers came in, we found that we were able to afford 20 extra computer systems (!) by not paying the Microsoft tax. Also, we were able to hire a sysadmin very cheap who works remotely (he has been banned from the school grounds), and found in our analysis that we would have needed to pay about three times as much to get the MCSEs that it would have taken to keep an NT shop running smoothly.
So, the school board wins and the kids win with Open Source. That is the way it should be.
freebsd guy
Re:Well, my son's grade school, for one... (Score:3, Funny)
You can't just say that and not tell the story.
While free is good... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. All the teachers know Windows. My bet is that even many of the computer teachers do not know Linux well enough to run it in their labs. They can't teach it if they don't know it and teacher training could be expensive and take a lot of what's probably considered unnecessary time.
2. They would have a lot harder teaching a completely new OS AND classes on how to use the programs than to just teach the programs. You'd probably have to have a intro to Linux class before you could ever teach whichever programs you choose to use - and that's another issue in itself.
3. Students probably have Windows at home. Would they have problems with converting documents between systems? Say you create your report in Word at home, could your bring it school and use it there?
4. The local tech support and computer stores would not be able to help them if something went wrong. 99% of the techs around here don't know anything about anything other than Windows. Who would know enough about Linux to help them??
5. The students would learn programs and OSes that would different with what they would have when they go to college, go to work, etc. Since there are very few offices and colleges using entirely Linux, they would be at a disadvantage right away.
Of course there are a lot of plusses too, but these negatives sprang to mind right away. Of course they are all refutable. I think that the schools would choose easy and expensive over difficult and cheap any day. If they didn't have a choice and were nearly out of money, my guess is they would let the computers sit/
Re:While free is good... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's take a look at this point by point.
What you really mean to say is that all of the teachers know how to log on and fire up Word. Most teachers don't really know anything about Windows administration. That's why the computers in most classrooms work poorly.
This simply means that whatever Linux front end was offered would have to be similar to Windows. It would have to be at least as similar as Windows XP is to Windows 95. For the simple things both KDE and Gnome can be set up so that the teachers wouldn't miss a beat.
Once again. The teachers aren't teaching the students to use the OS. Most teachers don't even know that right clicking on objects gives them a different menu. Teachers are teaching students to "click on the Word icon" and then word process. If you created icons for the StarOffice programs you would be 90% of the way there.
This is already a problem. Even if you have Windows. Many students who have computers don't have MS Office (it's expensive), and if they do have MS Office there is a good chance that they have an older version like Office 95 that won't open the newer formats (easily). With a switch to Linux the school could easily (and inexpensively) hand out copies of StarOffice for Windows or Linux (it's free).
This, in my opinion, is the one legitimate point. However, the answer to this is to not roll out Linux PCs but instead to have one Linux server and a pile of thin-clients. That way all the local tech would have to do is throw out the old thin-client and plug in the new one. My guess is that the current Windows administrator could easily learn to be a fairly competent Linux admin if they didn't have to worry about all of the failed client PCs. He/She would have a whole lot more time on their hands with only one machine to administer.
Anyone that can learn to use StarOffice will have no trouble using MS Office (and vice versa). These applications are nearly identical.
And that's precisely the information that is needed to sell schools on Free Software. Demonstrate to them how much easier it would be for them to administer one Linux server and a pile of disposable ThinkNics and you can bet that they will sit up and listen. At the very least public schools should be giving StarOffice a look. It would save them a bundle in licensing, and will even run on their existing Windows systems.
Re:While free is good... (Score:3, Funny)
That's nothing, sonny. Why, back in my day, we had Windows at home and Apples in the schools. We had to pay for everything, we couldn't work on the same document at home and at school then either, and we liked it!
Forgot the link... (Score:2, Informative)
SCHOOLFORGE [schoolforge.net]
Making old system last longer... (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Servers - file sharing, web servers, e-mail, etc
2) Making old machines useful again
A lot of schools have old 486's and Pentium lying around which are pretty much useless as a Windows desktop, but set these systems up as X-terminals and throw a sub $1000 server behind it, and suddenly they are rejuvenated. This also has the benefit of making the management of these systems much easier.
I know I've seen a number of initatives where some politician gets the bright idea that the secret to making schools better is to buy a lot of hardware. This usually helps for a little while, but then in 3 or 4 years the hardware becomes nearly useless and nobody's throwing more money at it. By going with Linux, it seems like they can extend the value of that initial investment a lot further and thus save hugely in the long run.
In a related news (Score:2)
Well Microsoft does not alway mean to charity - especially when a shiny Microsoft logo is behind it.
**volunteer** (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that when someone in the education system goes to CompUSA or their local Mom and Pop computer store, they don't get someone who will set them up with that sort of thing.
So here is what you need to do: volunteer your time. Set up that computer network for your school, especially those of you with children in it.
You can also help the school with find good deals on businesses wanting to get rid of equipment ... those old PII 233's that they don't want to use anymore can be a big tax writeoff for them, and would work fine as a diskless workstation.
But the problem is that most school teachers don't have much of a clue in the realm of computers. They don't know how to make a dozen half-broken computers into a lab. So volunteer your time and help them get set up!
I don't know about save, but we use it extensively (Score:2, Insightful)
-- moved all web and e-mail servers from NT to RedHat Linux 6.2
-- put in FreeBSD 4.x-based firewalls in all the high schools and admin buildings
-- replaced the IBM NetVista Proxy Server software running on NT with proxy servers running RH 6.2, Squid, DansGuardian, and the like
-- implemented a very successful pilot of the Linux Terminal Server Project thin-clients in two elementary school labs (one school only uses Windows on administration desktops)
-- promoted StarOffice 5.2 as an alternative to MS Office, on both Windows and Linux
-- most IT desktops run either FreeBSD, RH Linux, or both
Currently, all servers in the district run either FreeBSD, Linux, or NetWare. There are no NT servers left in the district.
Most computer labs run Windows 95/98, a couple 2000, and one or two are still running 3.1. Some are now running Linux, with more planned for next year.
The goal is to have all elementary school labs running Linux, all servers to be running FreeBSD or Linux, and all high school Internet access to be policed by Unix servers.
Working quite well for us. Saved $30,000 is licensing fees so far (that's for the IBM software), enough to hire another tech if needed. Should see greater savings as time goes on. Also were able to purchase 200+ lower-end PCs for the elem labs as opposed to just 30 high end machines -- that's close to 30 labs for the price of one -- as the elem labs will be running Unix.
The interesting thing here is that the teachers and principals are behind this 100%, and are clamoring to get their labs set up. It's too bad there are only 5 techs for 50+ schools.
One example (not k-12, but heck) (Score:2, Informative)
The Networked Writing Environment [ufl.edu] would probably exist without free (freedom or beer) software, but the applications available to students would be very limited. We have 150 seats in five classrooms, using thin clients (SunRays, NCDs, etc) with Solaris servers.
If we spent only $100 per seat on software, that would be $15K -- and I bet replacing StarOffice, The Gimp, our HTML editor, tkMOO-lite, exmh, Xplore, and other applications would cost a lot more than that. Not to mention that Solaris is free (beer) for educational use.
I'm sure there are also cost savings from using the client/server model instead of 150 workstations. We have two system administrators and one half-time graduate student, and a few hangers-on like me who poke stuff around when time allows. :)
The NWE has been around since 1995. With education budget cuts in Florida reaching into the hundreds of millions this year, and maybe more next year, I don't see the Solaris/free software setup being replaced with a non-free model anytime soon.
cbd
free software (Score:2, Informative)
Come see a 4th grade Linux Classroom right now... (Score:4, Informative)
It works, it's fast, it's free, we like it.
Linux & Open Source (Score:4, Insightful)
John Cuzzola
jcuzzola@sd73.bc.ca
1383-9th Avenue
System Analyst/Programmer
Kamloops, BC V2C 3X7
School District #73
Phone: (250) 374-0679
An open source elementry school (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's what I've been able to create for the school:
1 workstation for every 4 children
So when a class is in the library there is 1 student per computer. They all run win98.
I am working towards 1 laptop for each teacher
So far there is 2, they are wirelessly 802.11b connected to the network.
A dedicated Red Hat 7.2 server
Squid proxy, web page filtering and monitoring [onda.com.br] Squirrel Mail IMAP web based e-mail [squirrelmail.org], samba, LDAP student/teacher contact and vital information, a MySQL powered bookmark database, Apache Web server, and a digital picture gallery [menalto.com].
Everything on the server is open source and works flawlessly. All of this would have cost a fortune to buy and maintain on a NT server.
I am very interested in what software other people are running if they are doing the same thing that I am. Reply to this comment or e-mail me with what you run, I'd love to share tips.
Donated computers generally don't help schools (Score:5, Insightful)
Hi!
The scene: "Public Comment" time at a school board meeting. The previous speaker, a senior citizen, has spoken at length about the burden of school taxes on the elderly in the community. He has particularly emphasized his opposition to the blatantly gold-plated technology proposals in the school budget (including the 4--count 'em, 4! PDAs for the district IT staff). Then the school board's self-designated Taxpayer Advocate clears his throat, and says, "Y'know, I was talking to our IT director at work the other day, and we're getting rid of a bunch of computers. Some are 486s, but a lot are Pentiums--we could provide a lot of those machines to the district at little or no cost....
...And another dumb IT decision is in the offing. Lots of people want to donate their downstreamed equipment to the schools. Sometimes they genuinely think they're doing good: most of the time they're trying to claim a tax credit for the contribution, and will "suggest" valuations for each machine that they drop off. All too often those donations cost the district actual cash--because you have to pay a HazMat hauler to take the monitors these days.
Linux and other free (as in beer) software may well have a place in education. There is a very powerful argument, for instance, for creating an Office-type suite with extensive classroom management tools. Given that school environments can be extraordinarily hostile (think of the kinds of behavior that occurs in a middle school classroom if the teacher steps out into the hall) there is a persuasive argument to be made for a robust platform like (ahem) FreeBSD.
But. Please please please do not even think of saddling the poor, overworked techs at your local school district with your worn-out, leftover, good-for-nothing junk. You are doing them no favors, you are doing no good to the district, and you are probably preventing adoption of a well-thought-through technology plan by "donating" your scrap equipment.
Computers in schools
I'm on the Technology Committee of the Nazareth (Pa.) Area School District [k12.pa.us]. We've played out that scenario at the top of this post several times. We have had several area companies offer to donate their scrap to us. We have had several board members get positively indignant that we have spurned those offers. We did spurn those offers, and if I have any say in the matter we will continue to spurn those offers--here's why.
This is a hostile environment
Suppose your employer decides to install a new computer system. And suppose a computer-phobic customer service rep decides that he doesn't want to use the new system. Your employer has a simple remedy: fire the CSR. Doesn't work that way in American schools: if you want the teacher to use a computer, you have to persuade her/him.
This is a hostile environment #2
Teachers (no surprise, right?) don't want to look stupid in front of their students. But the kids are substantially more adept with computers than the teachers--so the teachers have a built-in ambivalence (at best) about computers.
So we have to persuade teachers to use a device that potentially can humiliate them in front of their students. How?
From hard-won experience, the district IT staff has to offer absolutely bullet-proof reliability. They have to be able to guarantee--and deliver on that guarantee--that the computers will be there, working flawlessly, whenever the teacher wants. No reboots, no network hassles, no video driver conflicts (elementary teachers probably use more video games than CmdrTaco), no need to get an MSCE in order to teach 3rd grade. In other words, the district IT staff has to provide Service Level Agreement-style functionality.
But...
do you think this means that anybody is willing to pay for a district IT staff? Funny boy--the school board will fund an extra assistant to the wrestling program in a heartbeat, but they won't spend a dime for a part-time LAN geek unless you do some major politicking. So what IT staff you have (4100 students, 450 employees, 7 buildings over 80 square miles, 3.5 IT staff) have to make do with what they have.
Which means...
They have to standardize, standardize, standardize. Every elementary classroom has to have the same video cards; every machine has to have the same network adapter; every machine in the high school has to have the same monitor. They have to develop a formalized bug-tracking system to identify recurring problems, and they have to take a systemic view of the entire IT picture in order to maintain 100% uptime. Because if they provide less than 100% uptime the teachers will stop using the system, and the parents will start calling the school board. And so forth....
So please...
Don't "do the kids a favor" and ship them junk. If you want to make a meaningful donation, call the school district and ask if you can give them the money to buy another one of their reference desktops. If they're running Windows, hold your nose and buy Windows. If they're running a bunch of out-of-date kiddie games, hold your nose and buy the out-of-date kiddie games. Do not make their lives miserable by sending them leftovers, or by going out to Circuit City and buying a $399 special. (God save the IT staff from the enthusiasm of the PTA.)
If you want to champion Open Source in the schools
Don't go preaching Linux as religion. Get involved, go to meetings, be prepared to make a reasonable case, and be prepared to argue for a complete replacement of the entire district IT infrastructure. And be prepared for war from the elementary teachers and the PTA: elementary school software runs on Windows, period. If you want to replace it, you'd best have a bunch of kids games tested and ready to go.
Bottom line:
Computers are crucial to education in the 21st century. I teach in a graduate program, and I'm constantly amazed at the number of MBA students with only the faintest glimmer of understanding about computers and technology. But the route to learning about computers and technology is not with leftover junk--it is with a carefully-developed, meticulously-managed, (and yes, sometimes rigidly enforced) IT plan that promises a "100% school time up time" service level, and delivers it. If the users can trust that the computers will be there, they will learn. If they can't trust the computers, they will learn to hate them.
Re:Schools should switch to Linux, NOT BSD. (Score:2, Insightful)
Dude, you *do* know that the "B" in "BSD" is a rather famous public school [berkeley.edu]?
Re:Jsut spend the money on MS. (Score:2)
There is a reason teachers aren't paid very much, and it's not because we don't value education or the teaching profession. It's just simple economics. For the "warm fuzzy" of getting to work with kids, the personal satisfaction the job brings, etc., people are willing to take a lower salary for teaching than they would for jobs in other fields. Teaching also seems to attract a number of people who don't really need the money at all (wealthy families, spouses, whatever) and are therefore willing to work for less. At least in my area of the country, for every teacher who demands a pay raise, there are a number of people willing to take that teacher's position at the current pay rate or even less.
But, I digress. I absolutely agree with one of your points: A good teacher in the classroom is infinately more important than a computer in the classroom.
Re:MS Academic Software is cheap (Score:3, Interesting)
My company provides IT support to a small-medium sized K-12 school district. They have 5 NT servers, and approximatly 250 workstations running Windows2000/Office2000. I can see no scenario where it would make sense to move them to a free software platform (Linux). MS academic software is not that expensive to start with, so there's not much money to be saved here (approx $50 for Win2k and $50 for Office per station.) Most of the software used by the district would not run under Linux anyway. Aside from the webmail app and their web based library system nearly everything else they use is written for Windows. They couldn't run any of their current educational software packages, including those provided by the state! I love Linux and see that it has a place on the server, embedded in devices and running on hobbiests' machines. However considering the realities of IT today, it just doesn't make sense to roll out Linux on the desktops of organizations either commercial or educational.
Commercial, no.
Educational, yes.
I can see no reason that students can't be taught to use a word processor rather than just Microsoft Word -- learning basic concepts instead of "monkey see, monkey click."
Educational software is, for the most part, a complete crock; and, with the exception of grade-keeping software, doesn't belong in schools. Teachers are paid to teach, not to sit a student in front of some so-called "educational" program and baby-sit them. Some of the computer tutorial software, like the programs that teach you to use Word and Excel by visually showing you what to do, are effective; but these aren't the types of things schools are trying to teach.
The hardware costs make it much more expensive to run Windows in a school environment; Windows and Office 2000 require fairly high-powered workstations which cost the school real money to purchase; comparitive systems to run OSes like BSD and Linux are often donated en masse.
Having all of the computer equipment donated to a school by a business that wants the tax write-off can save even a small school tens of thousands of dollars; which, in turn, can go into things like art programs, improving science education, and hell -- even keeping the school in sporting goods. Go and ask a local principal what they would do if they were given an extra $20,000 to spend at the school on anything but salaries or computers.
As far as not being qualified for anything but "hobbiests", what do you think students are? A hobbiest is someone who is interested in learning as much about something as possible; and a student is someone who is supposed to be learning as much about the subject material as possible. Students aren't like employees -- there is no bottom line to watch, and no such thing as wasted time as long as it's spent learning.