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Linux Software

Linux at the Library? 61

Posted by Cliff from the not-a-bad-idea dept.
Dean Siren asks: "Has anyone put a copy of Linux at a public or school library, free to check out, copy, install, and return? It's legal, and for many people would be a more convenient way to get ahold of Linux than purchasing or downloading (by putting it in a school library, it's almost as much forced exposure as Channel 1). I'm still talking with my local librarians about it, and wondering if it's an effective way to get 'converts'." What an interesting thought. I may have to check on doing this at my local library and those of you interested in this can check in your neck of the woods, as well. It would be interesting to see how such an idea is received.
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Linux at the Library? More

Linux at the Library?

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  • Has a linux for dummies book with a copy of Redhat 6.2 in it.

  • Best distro??? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tfurrows ( 541222 ) <tfurrows@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Friday December 28, 2001 @05:33PM (#2760482)
    What if there were a distro just for libraries, perhaps one especially suited to people that have never installed linux and have no outside help? Perhaps even a special "trial" distro that installed onto a virutal drive under windows and then let them boot into linux from the desktop. (running in full-blown linux, of course, not some VM env.).

    I know these things are all out there, but not in an all-inclusive distro...

    Perhaps more people need to be making distros, or participating in making the existing ones easier to use for the rest of the world (personally, I'll stick with Slackware).

  • Not just the CD & keep it up to date (Score:5, Informative)

    by "Zow" ( 6449 ) on Friday December 28, 2001 @05:37PM (#2760498) Homepage

    A few assorted thoughts as I wait for my compilation. . .

    1. Just the disk alone probably wouldn't be much good for most members of the target audience. Donate a book that comes with a RedHat/Mandrake/whatever that includes instructions on how to install it, use it, etc. Anyone got any recommendations on what good books are for this?
    2. Keep it up to date. You aren't doing anyone a favour by donating a copy of RedHat 5.1. Make an effort to see that the library is at least using the current major version number of whatever distro you provide.
    3. I imagine that doing something like this could impose unforseen, unnecessary burdens on the librarians, like having people ask them for tech support. Anyone care to speculate on what these problems might be and what we can do to prevent them from becoming problems in the first place? (Like leaving your contact info or contact info for the local LUG for the librarians to give out to people with questions.)

    -"Zow"

  • The Tulsa Public library has books about linux on the third floor, but I have yet to see any installation cd-roms. Infact, it would be doubtful that they would accept a burnt cd-rom or a purchased cd-rom to their library, because of a big contract w/ Microsoft.

  • especially beneficial... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Blob Pet ( 86206 ) on Friday December 28, 2001 @05:54PM (#2760557) Homepage
    for those who don't have high-speed internet access. we could also go the extra step and install CD-burners on computers in libraries with fast connections. This way, a librarian could download the most recent version of whatever distro is requested. A patron would just have to bring his/her own blank CD. -or is this all just a big pipe dream?
    • sounds like a pipe dream in my area. libraries are lucky to have enough funding to replace the aging books, i don't think they'll have enough money to install burners.

      some of the suburbs around here are pretty well off, but they are also home to the people who have no problems buying the xp upgrade when it comes out.
  • ...would be to start off by just putting the cds on the library shelves for users who already know what they are doing. As it is, there *doesn't* *always* *seem* to be enough documentation on the web that is easy to understand. If you want to help by documenting, try contributing to the companies that already have some and make suggestions. My concern is that people may try this library idea and make some documention, but not see it all the way through because it is too big a task.

    If they need docs we could always leave them urls and let them *try* *to* get what they need online. It probably wouldn't help too many people, but the idea is to not waste much time doing things that don't guarantee results.

    I remember when I was in Calgary and wanted to get my computer hooked up the dialup, I had to go to the library to get a Linux cd. It would have been easier if we had a updated version.

    Sincerely, and with thanks,
    Eugene T.S. Wong
  • I was down at the main Carnegie Library [clpgh.org] and picked up a few books containing a variety of distros (redhat and about 3 others I do belive). Also had books like The Cathedral and the Bazzar and a book on Open Source theory and some other stuff like it, all in the same section too.

  • What I do to help (Score:4, Informative)

    by peripatetic_bum ( 211859 ) on Friday December 28, 2001 @06:54PM (#2760773) Homepage Journal
    1. I always ask the librarian if it is ok if I add CD-rom of linux to the unix and linux books in the library. So far, all of them have been enthusiastic that someone is interested in providing linux to the libraris (although im sure they dont know what it is exactly

    2. I carefully and fully label exactly what is on the Cd-RoM. I put say "Debian distribution of linux 2.2 revision3"

    and also put "If you have any question, please email me at ..."

    I think the email idea is probably the best thing you can do if you provide linux CD's as if a person has questions they can contact you immediately!

    I wish i had that when i started.

    Thanks for reading

  • the problem... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XRayX ( 325543 ) <tobias.boeger@w[ ]de ['eb.' in gap]> on Friday December 28, 2001 @07:02PM (#2760795) Homepage Journal
    My library (ComBi = ComputerBibliothek) does this. They have a couple of boxed Linux Distros (including instrcutions) there and even run some KDE Workstations for Surfing. The problem with the Distributions is that they're totally outdated: Especially newbies have no use for RedHat 6, SuSe 6.4 or Slackware 5... okay they're boxed and come with a handbook etc. IMO it would be better to have some up to date ISOs there and give them away with the official installing instructions.
    • The problem with the Distributions is that they're totally outdated: especially newbies have no use for RedHat 6, SuSe 6.4 or Slackware 5...

      What? So, by your same assumption, even if somebody has a pentium 200 with 32mb of ram THEY have no use for Windows 95 because Windows XP is out there?

      I know tons of people, myself included, who like the older distros. It's nice to have linux on A CD instead of A DUMP TRUCK FULL OF CDs like this fucking 11 CD Redhat install. True, you get more stuff, but do you really need it if you're just starting out with Linux?

      My guess is that anybody who's hard up enough that they check linux out of the library probably doesn't have an Athlon XP; otherwise they'd happily spend twelve bucks at cheapbytes or the thirty at Wal-Mart for a distro. Probably the main group this would be targeted at would be people who go to the library a lot (traditionally lower-class people), who have hand-me-down computers.

      Don't knock those old-school distros. They boot up just fine.
      • Well, according to the HoneyNet Project [honeynet.org]

        "....we estimate the life expectancy of a default installation of Red Hat 6.2 server to be less then 72 hours."

        And that's the problem. The distros boot up just fine. Until recently, most distributors gave no thought to security and tended to install everything enabled by default; With no firewall or access lists. Sure, an experienced user can patch and tighten an old version of linux but as it has been pointed out, those people won't be getting linux from the library. And setting a newbie up with one of these old distros is just asking for trouble.

      • What? So, by your same assumption, even if somebody has a pentium 200 with 32mb of ram THEY have no use for Windows 95 because Windows XP is out there?

        The fact of the matter is that Linux distributions do not experience the same level of bloat as Windows, making the analogy flawed. Certainly distributions like RedHat and Mandrake are getting heavier, requiring more disk space and more memory for the standard installations, but others, such as Debian and Slackware, remain more lightweight. Significant compatibility advances have been made in the Linux kernel and user software in relatively recent times that it is advantageous, especially for the new user, to have a current distribution.

  • My experience is that libraries in NY have a pretty poor selection of computer books. Most are "* for Idiots/Dummies/Imbeciles" or "Learn * in 21 Days". It would be nice to see some better quality titles being stocked. As for books with a CD included, the CD's are usually missing.

    While software is an excellent idea, it should be accompanied by good books on computing as well. There was a good poll on Slashdot on seminal computing books [slashdot.org] a while back. It is disturbing how unavailable these are at public libraries. One would think that the "information economy" would be well served by having such books available. Bookstores are rarely any better.

    I know I am preaching to the choir, but I really wonder when the booksellers/librarians will stock some good books on computing

  • Bad idea, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Friday December 28, 2001 @10:36PM (#2761313) Homepage Journal
    1. If you're going to install something as complex as this, you really need your own CD.
    2. People who learn about software from library books tend to be techno-muggles. Are you really doing such a person a favor by throwing an entire new OS at them? What about the poor librarians who end up having to provide tech support, and taking the blame from people who unintentionally destroy their Windows installation?
    3. If you're going to be an evangelist, be serious about it. There are any number of ways you could make Linux CDs available, but that's like those obnoxious little religious tracts you find in phone booths. Linux isn't just a technology -- it's a community. If you want to bring people into this community, be prepared to do some actual work. Join or start a local LUG. Work with other penguinites to stage public demos and classes.
    Not that a public library is useless for your purposes. It's full of resources to help you get the word out -- community rooms, tech-savy and tech-wannabe librarians, bulletin boards.

    Unsuprisingly, public libraries have totally embraced the social and technical revolution that is the Internet. This has benefited a lot of people who wouldn't have online access if they had to pay for it or set it up themselves. But as much as public libraries have done, it's not nearly enough! We've all seen the long lines of people waiting to use the web boxes.

    This is an opportunity for Linux evangelists, provided they're willing to do some actual work. Get a bunch of obsolete P90s from some dumpter. Install Linux and basic web browing software. Donate them to the public library -- along with human time it will take to install and maintain these boxes. That last part is important -- you're not doing anybody a favor by giving them technolgy that will just gather dust.

    That's a plan for raising awareness of Linux -- and squeezing at that damn digital divide, too.

  • Wright state(a uni near my house) has at least 4 or five different versions of Red Hats coffee table books, with bootable CD's(heaven help you if you return them late, they used to charge by the hour for late CDs)
  • I work for a municipality, and the public Library is part of my resposibility
    Recently the Librarians were wooed over by the 'Bill and Melinda(?) Gates Foudation' They are offering free computers, software (MS), and training.
    I'm just wondering when they will call in a favor and remove anything not-MS from their shelves...
    I warned the library board that this would be like making a deal with the devil, but my thoughts fall on deaf ears

  • Donate a lifetime subscription (Score:4, Informative)

    by iankerickson ( 116267 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @01:02AM (#2761508) Homepage
    The problem is keeping the CD up-to-date. It's too much trouble for your library. If you're going to pester your librarian with your ideas, its got to be something that's worth their money and time. "It'd be great!" is not a good enough reason.

    - Get your LUG together and chip in enough money to buy permanant subscriptions for the library for a few distributions. You could pool enough money to buy them a 10 year CD subscription, subject to renewal if your LUG is around in 10 years.

    - Do some serious fundraising and create a foundation. You basically need enough money that the annual interest is enough to pay for the CD subscription renewal, with enough left over to offset inflation. You'll also need a lawyer, a grant/proposal-writer, and some rich, gullible, er... generous friends.

    - Simpler yet, communicate to the library what exactly free software means. If you do your job right, they'll see the CDs don't need to be checked out at all -- they can burn copies and charge enough to cover costs just like they do for photocopies of microfiche or other special services.

    - Or give them something turnkey. Build and donate a computer system to mirror a few distributions over the internet with a simple menu to burn CDs for patrons on request. They could charge a reasonable price, say $3-$5 which might cover the media and bandwidth overhead.

    Whatever you do, you're also going to have to make sure the CDs are freely liscenced materials or you could run into an administative snag with some official terrified that the library is going to be sued into oblivion for software piracy. It doesn't matter if the risk is real or not, but the perception of their being a risk will cause the library to turn down the proposal.

    It'd be great to check out linux CDs from the library, but to be honest you already can, and you just didn't notice. Go to the computer books sections and find a book on Linux that says "CD enclosed!" and take it to the front desk. They'll bring you the CDs and check 'em out to you. So really, the only point of doing what you want to do is to do away with the need for the "Dummies" book to accompany the CD. The only reason to do that is if your Linux CDs in the library have some advantage to compensate for not being bundled with a book.

    But there ARE advantages to be had. One, with a subscription or a mirror, the library always has a copy that is up-to-date, with no effort on the part of their staff. Two, the resource is digital and under non-restrictive license, so it can be copied perfectly, repeatedly, and inexpensively, all without fear of legal reprisals. The CD then stays in the library and is therefore always "checked in" -- no waiting lists, no missing copies, no interlibrary loan. One well-equipped library can provide the CDs or mirrors over the WAN/MAN to all the other libraries in the county or even the state!

    Before you bother your local library with any poorly-research ideas (especially harvested from poorly edited or mispelled slashdot posts... case in point...), you should figure out how to provide the maximum service and utility to library patrons with minimal cost and maintenance for the library. Part of the problem with our library systems failure to move into the digital age is that people keep treating digital media like books. Software is different. There's no rational reason to "check out" CDs of software, especially free software, when unlimited copies can be made for $1 each.

    RMS (rms@stallman.org) or anybody at the FSF (http://www.fsf.org) could probably give you better advice than I could.

    Beware of Sig:
  • Donate one day of your time and hold a linux clinic. Tell them to bring their pc's and help them through the install and show them the basics. A few hours of your time would make a world of converts.
  • In good old Johnson County, Kansas, we have red hat 6 in the library, at least we used to. I'd heard about linux, so I went to check out a book. It was "Red Hat Linux For Dummies," and it still had 2 cds in back. Later on I bought the book and downloaded the newest version, but thats how I got started.
  • Here in my local library you can get the cd's or books with them.
    Last time I checked they were a bit outdated though.
  • I work in a Library in a small town in Ontario (Canada). It's a pretty small library, but we have a computer books shelf, including a few books on Linux that come with CDs. I used one the other day to install a Linux box so I could actually get some work done.. damn Windows shop :)

    If a Library this small has them, I'd think that most others would too.
  • How Linux people are becoming more and more like Mormons?

    "...and wondering if it's an effective way to get 'converts'."

  • We have the Red Hat Linux Bible with Red Hat 7.1 CDs - I love my local librarians!

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