Lunchbox Computers for Live Music Performances? 276
Dan Reetz asks: "As a PC based musician, mobility is critical. However, most laptops have horrible soundcards. PCMCIA cards like a VXPocket cost about 700 clams. A friend of mine recommended I look into 'lunchbox' style computers as a portable solution. A few searches revealed them to be quite expensive and they are hard to find used. Does anyone know of a source for used Lunchbox PC's (even just the diplay would be fine) or a better low latency/noise audio solution for laptops?"
Try a shuttle! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Try a shuttle! (Score:1)
Re:Try a shuttle! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:PCI?? = not firewire or USB??? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:PCI?? = not firewire or USB??? (Score:2)
Re:Try a shuttle! (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1572
Re:Try a shuttle! (Score:4, Informative)
You should check out the review of the FV24 motherboard [viahardware.com] and the review of the whole system [viahardware.com].
Plunk a high-end PCI sound card in this baby, and you're all set. Also, 3.5" drives are way cheaper than 2.5", although not as shock-resistant.
Re:Try a shuttle! (Score:2)
1) If you really want DVI, use the PCI slot in the SV24 for a PCI video card. I'd go with the PCI Radeon, personally.
steveha
Empeg? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Empeg? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Empeg? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Empeg? (Score:2, Informative)
USB/Firewire Audio (Score:5, Informative)
I'm looking to get the M-Audio one for my iBook to do digital recording as Macs don't come with Audio in anymore, leaving it up to third parties to make Firewire/USB solutions. They have low latency (I would image the Firewire one would be lower due to Firewire's higher transfer rate), but I've heard nothing but good things about them.
Also, if you're doing sequencing, you can get a MIDI breakout box and connect to another MIDI device for audio output.
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:3, Informative)
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:2)
The Roland/Edirol [edirol.com] UA-100 is a great solution.
Currently marketed as the RolandED Audio Canvas UA-100G, it's been around for a while and has good support under Linux and BeOS. You should be able to find a used one. It accepts analogue (mic/guitar) and MIDI inputs (and outputs) and is an all-round good piece of kit.
- Derwen
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:3, Informative)
A Combo iBook plus some audio gear should cost less than the lunchbox.
Get the Emagic EMI 2|6, $325 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Get the Emagic EMI 2|6, $325 (Score:2)
Re:Get the Emagic EMI 2|6, $325 (Score:2)
Sorry...
Re:Get the Emagic EMI 2|6, $325 (Score:2)
A Google search for a Linux driver for this *USB* interface turned up nothing, however.
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:2)
I would personally recommend trying the MOTU 828 [motu.com], which has great sound quality. There are also many USB MIDI choices as well (from MOTU and others).
It really is a shame that PC laptop hardware is not quite up to par in this area.
Re:USB/Firewire Audio (Score:2, Informative)
Anyone using the iMic with Linux? (Score:2)
USB audio devices (Score:3, Informative)
on linux...? (Score:1)
Umm.. (Score:2)
Who uses linux for pro audio?[1]
This guy sounds like he's doing something a bit more advanced than playing MP3 remixes of the "Free Software Song".
Something where decent software support just might come into the picture.
C-X C-S
[1] Nobody. Last I heard all the major PA wares were win/mac only.
Posibility of building your own? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have done a dj thing at a small event (party for uni society) with just a PC and a whole load of tracks i ripped for ease or mixing on a pc. Plus with a TV out card card winamp plugins can be projected onto a well
The historical approach (Score:2)
There has been for a very long time. I have a 286 luggable to hand, you could shoehorn a small mobo into it and (because it was designed for a baby-AT with ISA slots) do some surgery on a Yamaha or other cheap-but-good PCI soundcard to fit it in.
You'd probably have to use a laptop CPU to avoid overloading the ancient PSU in those things but OTOH the hard drives of the era weren't exactly light on power either so a compromise with a low-ish powered mainstream CPU might work.
You generally don't get battery operation like a laptop, though, unless you're also prepared to lug an inverter and battery, or modify a PSU to suck 12V (not as difficult as it sounds but still need some electronics expertise) and lug just a battery (or 'gator clips and a lead to your car).
Make one Yourself (Score:5, Informative)
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a
Search around and I'm sure you'll find guidelines on how to build if not a lunchbox computer, at least a suitcase computer.
We Don't Deal in Magic (Score:1)
A lunchbox is NOT a cheap, off-the-shelf, shrink-wrapped computer system. In fact, one can generally purchase a fully operational notebook computer for less than the cost of the bare lunchbox chassis.
So why do you think that we will be able to work the magic for you. Of course you can argue that they are just saying that so you shell out the big $$$ to them, but still. Its like reading on CNN that nobody knows where Bin Laden is, and then asking slashdot for his mailing address!
Re:We Don't Deal in Magic (Score:4, Insightful)
The rest of the world seems to have to do/pay X to make Y. I don't have X. How do I make Y?
Computer based musicians should know that it's a terribly expensive hobby. I say hobby, because, he's obviously not makin too much money off of it. What would he do if he actually had to pay for his software too (as the software will usually run you up into the 1000$'s once you have all the neccessary effect and software synth packages most comp based musicians need)? Oh wait, I guess he'd just ask where he could pick up Emagic Logic Audio on the cheap too
As for the original question, going the lunch box route would be lunacy. They were not built for mobile musicians, so why not realize that the best route would be to figure out what other musicians of his industry demographic are doing? His underlying question would be far more appropriate on a comp-musician's website like Sonic State [sonicstat.com] or Harmony Central [harmony-central.com]
Re:We Don't Deal in Magic (Score:1, Insightful)
Sheesh.
Re:We Don't Deal in Magic (Score:2)
Uh, Mr. AC, obviously I
Re:We Don't Deal in Magic (Score:2)
LunchBox Vs. Notebooks (Score:3, Insightful)
G E B (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyways, my friend described it as an up to date version of a Godel Escher Bach tale where the tortoise is trying to build a record player that can't be broken. But no matter how complicated a machine he makes, there is always a record that will destroy his system.
That wasn't all the clear, but if you know the book, you'll get the gist of whatIsayin.
Re:LunchBox Vs. Notebooks (Score:1)
Do you mean desktops or laptops?
Re:LunchBox Vs. Notebooks (Score:1)
hmmm..... (Score:2)
Why replace the whole computer? (Score:3, Informative)
You know that PCMCIA cards suck. Have you tried USB or maybe Paraell port? I know of one product, lp3 [lp3music.com], hooks into the paraell port and you basically print the MP3 to it. Unfortunately the lp3 is not shipping (they're having problems handling shipping).
I've also heard of the LPBlaster, and of course numerous supported USB audio devices...
You already have a solution! (Score:4, Insightful)
PowerBook (Score:4, Informative)
Re:PowerBook (Score:2, Informative)
Another thing to perhaps recommend is getting a rack mounted computer. Most gig rigs are in portable racks, so perhaps getting a rack mounted computer would solve the portability/durability issue.
But still, people seem to be more inclined to use laptops or even all in ones like the iMac. It's not so much a ruggedness, but a clean easy hookup issue. Less cables are better, and a laptop with a USB or Firewire hookup to your synths/modules/interfaces that are in racks seems to be the best way to do things....
Some good replies (Score:5, Informative)
Lunchbox PCs get pricey (Score:4, Funny)
Don't listen to them, it's a conspiracy; THAT'S the real reason LPCs get pricey
powerbook (Score:1)
USB? Small desktop computer? (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps you could get a small computer that has a PCI slot, such as a Shuttle SV24 [spacewalker.com]. Get a flat-screen display and a small keyboard and mouse, and then stick in your choice of high-quality PCI-based sound card. This plus a couple of carrying cases would be about as functional as a lunchbox portable, and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Good luck.
steveha
Not Cheap But nice (Score:3, Informative)
PC-based musician ? (Score:2)
As a musical instrument-based programmer, I still haven't found a grand piano with a good C compiler ...
Seriously though, what the heck is a "PC-based musician" ?
Re:PC-based musician ? (Score:1)
ba-dum-bum
Re:PC-based musician ? (Score:3)
Someone who composes songs on the piano or keyboard: pianist.
Someone who composes songs on the sax: saxophonist.
Someone who composes songs using a computer and software synthesizers and trackers and sequencers and loop based software: PC-BASED MUSICIAN.
I couldn't tell if you were being glib or serious, but a PC-based musician is someone who uses the PC to actually
Re:PC-based musician ? (Score:1)
there are any number of virtual analog modeling software, composition/sequencing, performance aplications out there which, when combined with soundcards with onboard synths and hard disk sampling, do, indeed, allow a person to be a musician who uses nothing but their computer.
another alt... (Score:1)
Re:another alt... (Score:1)
Shuttle SV24 case... (Score:3, Informative)
100% software (Score:2)
Notebook musician (Score:3, Informative)
He recommends the "EMU8710" and the "WaMi Box". A quick net search shows 'em both running about $400 - a little more reasonable than the $700 quoted above.
Keep your clams (Score:1, Troll)
*ducks and runs out of room*
Alternatives studio grade stuff (Score:3, Informative)
You should also check out usb-audio.com [usb-audio.com]!
Gear isn't small (Score:2)
Think about how much gear your average performer has on stage. Amps, effects, mixers, it's endless. That's why the band/crew shows up at 3pm for a 9pm show, even at a small club. Much carrying has to be done before the soundcheck. You're usually lucky to find time for dinner before they open the doors..
I'd suggest getting the most solid midi-tower you can, a the smallest cheapest monitor you can live with and go.. The monitor is gonna get a beer dropped in it sooner or later anyway, so go for cheap not quality. Bring super solid cables and lots of extras. Have balanced XLR outputs ideally. Running RCAs to a PA requires special boxes which the club may not have.
Why not build it yourself... (Score:2, Insightful)
Instructions for briefcase computer (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.supersiteusa.com/lanjunky1/briefcase
Non-music shoebox that might work (Score:1)
http://www.portwell.com/pna-2413.htm
Look around and see if you can find another product of theirs that works. Price for a single 2413 unit was under $1000.
For that matter, where stereo rackmount and server rackmount are similar form factors, I'd also start exploring rackmount PC's. Again, a fullfeatured box is a grand or so. Ruggedized?! Hardly. But keep it simple inside the box, use whatever tricks might help to ruggedize things yourself (rubber bushings on all rackmount points, secondary mounting at the back of the casing), and treat it nice (as in carry it in and out of the show yourself, rather than letting strangers treat it like the speakers get treated) and maybe it'll save you the bucks needed for a rugged lunchbox.
LET ME SHOUT THIS AGAIN... I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT RUGGED PORTABLE SYSTEMS. WHAT I AM SUGGESTING IS SMALL, INEXPENSIVE, AND CONFIGURABLE. I hope this helps...
Midiman (Score:4, Informative)
A couple solutions we use at UVA... (Score:1)
Re:A couple solutions we use at UVA... (Score:1)
Most laptops have docking stations available... (Score:1)
I have a TP Dock (2631-20U) with my T23, and although I don't use a PCI card in there, it has support for a half height pci card.
I'm sure there are other similar solutions available to add desktop functionality to your notebook.
Firewire audio (Score:2, Insightful)
How about multi-port audio interfaces for laptops (Score:1)
Try USB audio (Score:2, Informative)
There are three rather good cheap ones out right now:
- The iMic which works on Win32 machines and run for $35, check out their stats at www.griffintechnology.com. 24 bit/48khz, etc.
As well as the somewhat cheap entries from Emagic and Roland/Edirol
All three support ASIO, I believe. I've never experienced any performance issues with USB audio devices, as the USB bandwidth is more than enough to handle audio tasks.
Screw the lunchbox, and just stick with the laptop, it's much easier to work from one computer, and if you're like me, you're surgically attached to your laptop.
Laptop with a docking station ? (Score:1)
How about a 1U server (Score:1)
But this can get expensive pretty quick.
Or just make it... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is different from trying to build a portable or luggable since it doesn't need its own power source -- if you're doing music, you probably have access to 120VAC somewhere. So a traditional power supply can work.
A setup like this could easily come down to the $1000 price range, and open you to putting more money into a really good sound card...
but don't forget (Score:1)
MOTU 828 + Laptop = Live Performance (Score:5, Informative)
Mine cost $5.... (Score:1)
I got an old 286 Luggable for $5.
I've replaced the motherboard (Baby AT), and the drives, and it's working fine. The only thing to be aware of is the case format. Mine has the power supply hovering over the motherboard in one corner. I couldn't use my first choice motherboard replacement as it had prominent components just there (voltage regulators with heatsinks if it counts)
It's not been upgraded too far and it only has a CGA display, but perhaps you can do better.
EM411 (Score:1)
Discussions often get very technical.
www.em411.com
Oh yeah... (Score:2)
Shuttle: 270x190x160mm (LWH), $250 (Score:1)
anadantech [anandtech.com] - outpost, with 1GHz Celeron, $330 [outpost.com]
all you need is a handle (Score:1)
From helping musician-friends haul thier shit around, this seems an adequate solution to me...
There was also a pretty small (Apple Cube-sized) PC case for around $250 that was mentioned a few times on Slashdot... didnt turn anything up in a search tho, sorry.
Re:all you need is a handle (Score:2, Informative)
only 1 expansion slot though...
Live music. (Score:1)
a nice matrix of laptop audio options (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.subminimal.com/ear/pbaudio.html [subminimal.com]
I have the Emagic EMI 2|6 myself, which I like a lot. I'd look at a number of these solutions rather than a "lunchbox" computer.
Bill
--
http://www.chromedecay.org
evaluate your reasoning.. (Score:2, Insightful)
here's my alternate solution: get a portable 19" audio rack bin ($60-$200 available at any fine audio gear merchant) and a cheap 1U rackmount box with 1 PCI clot from siliconrax or somebody ($700-$2000 depending on configuration). get a delta66 adapter (probably $150 by now) and shut off the onboard sound. in this way, your computer is fairly self-contained and portable, and you have more rack space for your effects, mixers, nord lead or whatever else you need to carry.
Some tips for cleaner audio (Score:5, Informative)
I used to do a lot of tracker and MIDI music and I learned many helpful tips about eliminating audio noise in electronic systems:
Ground loops (Score:2)
Power, grounding, and signals should follow the same tree structure, fanning out from a single power source and grounding point. You may have to violate this rule; if you do, an audio isolation transformer [allenavionics.com] should be placed somewhere in the signal chain to break the loop.
Magma+XGFactory (Score:2)
Imagine this coupled with a Yamaha SW1000XG soundcard [xgfactory.com]...
24bitfaq.org (Score:2, Informative)
shoOz
USB Audio. (Score:2)
Check out Roland's site [edirol.com] for more information.
Firewire it in. (Score:2)
Flytech (Score:2)
Add an LCD screen (maybe even fix it onto the side of the case, or buy one of their POS PCs with screen already included), and the sound card(s) of your choice, and you're set. There is a potential for heat problems, because of the ultra-crowded case, but provided you don't lock it away in a small closet with junk crowded all around it (as my users tended to do), you'll be fine.
Dolch kicks ASS (Score:2)
www.dolch.com
they fucking rule.
700 clams? [OT] (Score:2)
Pardon the OT post, but if you could come up with 700 clams...from the beach, say...would the stores honor [snopes2.com] this? Of course, these commercials offered stereos for bananas, but same idea.
Lunchbox PC in real lunchbox (Score:2, Interesting)
FireWire. (Score:2)
You can get a notebook with FireWire from Apple (any notebook from the past two years or so), Sony (some models), and a few others. Apple's machines also support mLAN, which is Yamaha's replacement for MIDI and optical digital cables, which also runs over FireWire. The content creation industries are standardizing on FireWire right now wherever they can. It's built to answer the problems that music and audio and video people face.
I don't know what the state of USB Audio is on Windows, but on the Mac you can get a small, cheap adapter like Griffin iMic ($25) and you get 24-bit stereo recording that's free of any internal computer noise. If you only need stereo, this is an easy solution. There are also some USB mic preamps, enabling you to plug a high-quality mic into USB and get good results.
Get one built (Score:2)
Basically, take a small form factor PC, and a small LDC monitor, and get the people who build the flight cases for your musical instruments to build a case around them.
Such an arrangement doesn't weigh an awful lot, you get full size(an hence high capacity) disks; PCI slots; even a CD-R. And it will probably work out cheaper than a laptop would.
rack - good idea (Score:2)
Re:rack - good idea (Score:2)
You can get regular rackmount monitors [portwell.com] too. (and TFT ones [ibi-systems.com] of those).
What's wrong with Final Scratch? (Score:2)