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What Kind of PHB Do You Want? 541

the_radix asks: "I'm not a great coder, but I love computers and especially programming. Those professional programmers that I know often complain of their managers not understanding the coding process and having unrealistic expectations of programmers. As such, I am considering a new career path: management. Since middle management is all about balancing, I'm looking for pointers before I start looking for positions. What do you, as coders and programmers, want from your immediate manager? If there are any geeks out there in upper management, what do you want from your lower-level managers who keep the techs in line? I'm not asking for the basic 'stand-up-for-your-subordinates' advice, but rather requests from a coder's standpoint. Geeks have special needs, and accommodating those needs (and 'odd' behaviors) is a good idea all around, for both employee morale and department output." I think many of us would rather like one who listened or who would at least take advice from the technical staff to heart. Many times managers will not consult their coders when they make plans, they'll make the plans first and tell their coding staff later, and this causes all kinds of problems. Generally, a superior with less "pointy hair" is something we'd all appreciate, but I'm sure the rest of you can expand what I'm trying to say here, or even say it better than I can.
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What Kind of PHB Do You Want?

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  • Three things (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jACL ( 75401 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:36PM (#2976248)
    - Listen to us, not to the consultants
    - Decide on the plan, stand back, and let us implement
    - Act as a filter for the politics
    • Re:Three things (Score:4, Insightful)

      by spectecjr ( 31235 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:45PM (#2976353) Homepage
      - Listen to us, not to the consultants
      - Decide on the plan, stand back, and let us implement
      - Act as a filter for the politics


      Number 2 on your list isn't ever going to happen -- things change too much for that. That's why it's called Life. Because it's a changey kind of thing. Death is where it doesn't change much (for the participant) any more.

      Simon
    • Re:Three things (Score:5, Insightful)

      by H310iSe ( 249662 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:46PM (#2976366)
      as to 2) filter the politics - can't stress that enough. I don't think this falls under "stand up for your subordinates, it's more a managers job to act as a baffle and keep the geek pool very still and calm so they (we) can focus on what we're doing and not get distracted by all the social-political bullshit. Every good manager I've had has completely isolated the geeks from the politics, kept the situation calm and left [the] room for people to work in whatever way they choose w/o any of the corporate environment slipping in. That, and, of course, set the project up, aim well, and shoot - as much as possible never let anyone come down half way through the project and 'give their input'. Never, ever, let *anyone* from marketing near the geek pool. If anyone wants to see anything, you, the manager, show them and if anyone wants to talk to anyone you the manager relays the information along for them.

      It's that simple. And that's why I'm no longer a manager, I hate doing all the things a good geek manager should do.
      • Re:Three things (Score:4, Interesting)

        by shawnmelliott ( 515892 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:51PM (#2976421) Journal
        I'm fortunate enough to work for a person who understands that she doesn't fully understand everything. However, just because she doesn't understand everything doesn't mean she doesn't want to know what's going on. When it comes to technical she asks us... We tell her our honest opinion / timeframe and she doubles it. As for the politics she handles it for us. We code. She keeps balance. it's a perfect relationship.

        I know this is more of a statement of my scenario than of what to do. But if you can do what she does then you're sure to do good. Not to mention that only techies can make good middle-management as long as those non-techies understand that they don't have to understand or fake understanding everything.
    • Point 1 will also never happen. The consultants talk to the customers. The customers give the company money. The money pays your salary.
      • Re:Three things (Score:3, Interesting)

        by NecroPuppy ( 222648 )
        I believe it's more of a, "If the consultant says it should be done, but the tech staff says it can't be done" listen to the tech staff.

        FREX, at my last job, we had a consultant come in and tell us to "Do X to the database", and our Oracle Admin said that we couldn't. (Something about Oracle 7, which we had, vs Oracle 8i, which we told the consultant we didn't have, multiple times.)

        The bosses listened to the consultant.

        Loads of fun... In addition to paying the consultant, we ended up paying for the upgrade to 8i....
      • Re:Three things (Score:3, Interesting)

        by kilroy_hau ( 187226 )
        Point 1 will also never happen. The consultants talk to the customers. The customers give the company money. The money pays your salary.

        A common error of my (ex)employers is assuming that, just because the customer pays, that means the customer is always right. That's not always the case.

        In our web development area, we had to make stupid changes of design, make slow, unnavigable or ugly web pages, but "The client asked it that way". We are supposed to be experts, we KNOW what works and what doesn't. If the customer to knew how to solve his problems he wouldn't have the need for us.

        Imagine you are a doctor and you have a patient that has cancer, but he wants an aspirin based treatment. You could give it to him and cash the check or you could try to convince him of what he really needs, even if it costs more.
    • Re:Three things (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      As a consultant I have some trouble with your item #1 suggestion. On my last gig nobody listened to me and they produced a distributed SQL Server database that didn't use transactions and did use "SELECT *" all over the place; I ended up quitting because I couldn't convince them of the utter stupidity of their ways...

      But on the other hand my current gig is a nightmare because they DID listen to their consultant --> these people used Rational Rose to generate code {blekk!} and even worse they believed that their OOP guru knew what he was doing. These people now have to maintain more than 7,000 classes all of which have one or two {sometimes none} meaningful methods in them. None of the 7,000 classes in any way represents a meaningful problem domain entity...
      • Re:Three things (Score:3, Interesting)

        Were they utterly stupid, or did you utterly misunderstand their requirements?

        Did your beautiful initial structure (which you wouldn't have to maintain, report against, etc.) have the potential to cause problems down the road?

        Most consultants I have dealt with were carpetbaggers. It's the nature of the job...you come in, you recommend the setup you've recommended for the last fifteen jobs, and you leave before the dust settles. Those on the job are left to deal with the consequences.

        Consultants, like everyone else, fit a bell curve - some horrible, some incredible, and most about average. The average guy doesn't understand the implication of what everyone is doing. Over time, those of us on staff learn that a consultant might have some good ideas and suggestions, but generally DOES NOT and CAN NOT have the big picture. We have the fractal view, from the smallest detail to the largest project. The consultant sees only a single project. The consultant does not contain within his head all the interconnections and potentials for problems.

        It's entirely possible that the people you dealt with simply weren't as smart as you are (and I'm completely serious). They saw what you suggested and didn't understand how to maintain it. Maintaining 7,000 trivial objects, on the other hand, is simple...just tedious and time consuming. It's good for people to know their limits. And don't go suggesting that maybe they should quit or the company should hire someone smarter - there's only so much talent to go around and it can't work everywhere.
    • Re:Three things (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      How to Manage Geeks (http://www.fastcompany.com/online/25/geeks.html)
      from June '99 is still pretty good, IMO. I printed it and left it on my manager's desk. Then he got fired.
    • by JohnDenver ( 246743 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:24PM (#2976644) Homepage
      My first reaction was: Do you honestly expect anybody to accept those terms?

      Then, I thought about it and realized you just weren't presenting your conditions properly.

      FROM: Listen to us, not to the consultants
      TO: Be skeptical of consultants selling snake-oil. Trust us: We're just trying to do a good job.

      FROM: Decide on the plan, stand back, and let us implement
      TO: Stick with the plan if it takes a little longer, persistance is more inportant than time to market. If you're manager is a programmer, then he should be tracking the code you check into the CVS system and keeping everybody on the same page with standards.

      SIDE NOTE: It's best if your manager doesn't "stand back", but is rather involved in the process (given he's competitant enough to know what he wants).

      FROM: Act as a filter for the politics
      TO: Help us focus on our work by isolating us from beaurocracy.

      Most of all, try to do everything within reason

    • by Lumpish Scholar ( 17107 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:47PM (#2976796) Homepage Journal
      - Act as a filter for the politics
      I've always said there are two kinds of managers: umbrellas and funnels.

      Umbrellas are good. I've had both.
    • by omarKhayyam ( 544074 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:37PM (#2977062)
      I was lucky enough to have the ideal manager without knowing it. I worked at a pharmaceutical company designing programs for the bioligists/chemists to use. My manager had degrees in chemistry, CS, and most importantly she had been a third grade teacher.

      Why was this important? It gave her an aura of being in control without being condescending. You just wanted to make her happy. I realize this is vague, so here is a specific way you can achieve this effect - protect your geeks. Make it clear that you are the only person they report to, the only person they have to worry about listening to. Don't let marketing, sales, or even your boss tell them what to do. This relieves much of the stress of being in company. Remember "Office Space"? One the guys main complaints was that he had 10 different managers to report to.

      Employees who have clear objectives, and who don't have to worry about retribution from unknown, unanticipated sources are (at least one step closer to being) happy employees. -Adam
  • Food for thought. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FreeLinux ( 555387 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:37PM (#2976259)
    While some of what you say or suggest is true, the fact is that *everyone* here feels that they are more qualified to make the decisions than their PHB. But, when we look at the many posts to follow this one, we realize that regarless of what they think, many of these people aren't qualified to make any form of decision at all.

    So, are you sure that you know it all?
  • by eries ( 71365 )
    or even say it better than I can

    No, not possible. Never happen.

  • by BranMan ( 29917 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:38PM (#2976276)
    A manager that reads Slashdot!
  • Encourage hourly pr0n breaks. Tell your management you're billing it as "administrative stress-management" time.
  • The best technical managers I've always had were ones that started out as developers themselves, and moved up into management.
  • It is a must read for any one involved in computer engineering. They reviewed it on slashdot a while back.
  • What kind of GHB do I want? It's drug talk time on slashdot!

    In other news, i'm at -5 karma, please mod me offtopic -1 so I can be back into troll land. Though I appreciate those who have dutifuly brought me from -14 to -5 karma, I regret that I will not last long at a 0 score.

  • Manager's job (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:39PM (#2976289)
    Prevent higher up management from talking to me directly. Provide a buffer between upper management and me.

    Make sure I have enough hardware.

    Make sure I know where I can get required software.

    Inform me quietly that you know about future layoffs. Stand up for me when the ax swings by.
    • Addenda (Score:4, Insightful)

      by VikingBerserker ( 546589 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:53PM (#2976438)

      Encourage feedback and suggestions, but make sure everyone realizes that ultimately your decision is final (at least as far as anything is in this line of work).

      It is NOT your job to tell your subordinates of upcoming layoffs, or any other "need to know" information. This will only inspire panic, and the smartest (read most valuable) employees will be the most likely to send out resumes. It is, however, in your best interest to keep your group as functional as possible. This means you try to protect the good workers from layoffs, but also swing the axe yourself at the dead wood.

  • Suggestions... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Maddog_Delphi97 ( 173780 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:39PM (#2976291)
    Maybe once a month, or once a week, encourage geeks to stay home (and telecommute) for their jobs... saves wear and tear on them if they can code in their most natural environment once in a while..

    Another thing that geeks like (at least I do), is PEACE AND QUIET... get them an office of their own, one that's soundproof.

    Let them take older hardware/computers home, so they can have something to play with without fear of destroying it. Chances are, it will become a server of some kind in their home.

    Don't know how feasible these ideas are, but at least there's a couple of good suggestions.
    • Re:Suggestions... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Random Feature ( 84958 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:06PM (#2976541) Homepage
      The entire office thing is important. Cube farms are NOT a productive environment to work in. And if you're going to force geeks into cube farms, at least make sure they have some breathing room.

      I've had a cube so small I couldn't turn around in and it was stifling and made being productive difficult. An office is ideal, but unfortunately not too practical for most organizations, so at least give us some room to breathe.

      Telecommuting isn't so important to me, but being flexible in work hours is very important. If I'm caught up or ahead of the game - don't get upset if I leave 2 hours early or come in two hours late. Believe me, if I'm behind or something is wrong I'll be there all night if necessary. But when it's slow, relax.

      And stop being so damned serious. The end of the world will not come about if we don't do X, Y or Z right this minute. Give us a little slack once in a while. Those rubber bands and nerf guns aren't going to hurt anyone. At least not seriously.

    • Re:Suggestions... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by JordanH ( 75307 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:24PM (#2976650) Homepage Journal
      • Another thing that geeks like (at least I do), is PEACE AND QUIET... get them an office of their own, one that's soundproof.

      Whatever happened to offices? Some years ago, you always heard how much productivity of Engineering staff was enhanced by offices, but now, all you hear about is that "open" workspaces encourage collaboration.

      Personally, I much prefer collaborating passing documents back and forth. Collaborating face to face has it's place, but to build anything of value, it's best to get all the ideas and opinions down in writing and diagrams, so they can be studied objectively. Usually when technical decisions are made in meetings, even informal drop-by-the cube or office meetings without anything written down, I find that they are poorly thought out.

      That's what I want from management. An environment that values my ideas, but also READS and tries to understand the issues. Shoot from the hip environments are generally poor for a number of reasons, in my experience:

      • Forceful personalities who can get away with interrupting and talking loud get more weight.
      • Decisions are made without much thought.
      • The politics are ultimately worse, because it's like you are performing in front of people all the time, so it encourages sucking up and group think.

      That being said, I do want to point out that there are a lot of comments in this thread about how good management insulates technical staff from politics. I agree with this, but I want to add that good workers who have management that does what they can to insulate workers from good management have a responsibility to do what they can to insulate their management from politics also. The corporate edicts may be stupid, but most middle management is powerless to fight a lot of these things. It's best to stand up and do what needs to be done to protect your (good) managers from feeling the heat if the edicts aren't followed.

      Sometimes, like schedules dictated on high, it's not always possible, but at least give your boss lots of good technical reasons (not just whining) as to why the schedules can't be met.

      Just my 2 cents.

      • Re:Suggestions... (Score:3, Informative)

        by PhotoGuy ( 189467 )
        Whatever happened to offices? Some years ago, you always heard how much productivity of Engineering staff was enhanced by offices, but now, all you hear about is that "open" workspaces encourage collaboration.
        Two factors, I'd say. One is cost. You can set up people in cubies far more cost effectively, and more densely (yet still reasonable) than with offices requiring studs, drywall, windows, frames, doors, in-wall wiring, and so on.

        Plus, cubies aren't a "leasehold improvement" that creating many offices would be, when getting into a lease. Furniture has more flexibility this way, and can be taken with you. Leaseholds can't.

        And as you mention collaboration is another point. It's not just an excuse, but a reality, in my experience. I've worked with the same group of people (in the same company) in offices, and then later in cubies, and there was far more interaction and communication in the latter. A company should provide ample meeting rooms for when a group needs to get together to discuss something (without bothering their cubie neighbors), or to make certain phone calls, or whatever.

        Independant of the cost factor, if I were to create an office from scratch, I'd use cubies (errr, workstations) rather than offices for all.

        Of course, it does depend upon the nature of the work. Web-related programming generally works well with lots of collaboration. Cranking out the latest encryption technology or MPEG5 encoding algorithm, is probably something a programmer would best do in a quiet office.

        -me

  • A beautiful deaf, blind, mute nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store.

    'Nuff said!

  • by 72beetle ( 177347 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:41PM (#2976298) Homepage
    The single most annoying thing for me (back when I could actually find work as a programmer) was the unrealistic expectations laid down by a management that had no concept of what goes into development. A former/aspiring programmer as a manager would be able to at least consider these factors when making project timelines and resource allocations. I would have also appreciated code reviews from my superiors, but for the most part, they have been of the mindset that what we did was magic and couldn't offer a shred of technical assistance or direction.

    I applaud your choice of considering management, I'd love to work under someone that has more than the 'hey, the internet is down' mindset.

    -72
  • by DarkEdgeX ( 212110 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:41PM (#2976303) Journal
    My biggest gripe with some of my former employers was the lack of involvement in the design phase (eg: setting realistic goals, and not imaginary or impossible goals). By the same token, setting reasonable time-frames for completion of various tasks is another issue I've butted heads with management on-- a prime example is when I explicitly stated the project at hand would take 4 months to complete (longer with QA work). I was overruled and told that the entire project, with QA, could be completed in 3 months. Needless to say the project went beyond that limit and much complaining was heard from the management types (instead of realizing they were wrong, they took us aside and told us we weren't doing good enough-- somehow they thought this would speed things up).

    Development takes time, and most geeks aren't like Scotty in Star Trek-- we don't multiply our estimates by 2 to make ourselves look like miracle workers when we get it done in half the time.
    • One of my biggest gripes is feature-creep. The essential functionality is planned out at the beginning, a realistic timeframe is projected, and coding beings.

      THEN, on a sometimes daily basis: "Can we add this? How much trouble would it be to put this in? Can you squeeze this in? It would be really great if we could add this. I was thinking this would be a good thing to have in there. Just something to think about."

      ARGH! Then they get all upset when the timeframe begins to get stretched. It's not our fault they don't take the time to carefully think it through at the beginning.
      • by NecroPuppy ( 222648 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:05PM (#2976532) Homepage
        One of my former bosses handled feature creep quite well.

        "Yes, we can add that. It will push the deadline back 1 month and cost you (the customer) an extra $150,000. Do you want to add it at this time?"

        Very often, they didn't.
      • &quotSo, you want feature X? Put it in that box - we'll look at it after we release."

      • One of my biggest gripes is feature-creep. The essential functionality is planned out at the beginning, a realistic timeframe is projected, and coding beings.

        Earlier this week, I was in a meeting between our companies and representatives with one of our clients. They were asking for a timeframe based on a graphics creation task I would ultimately be responsible for.

        I told them how long it would take.

        Then they started saying they had a bunch of potential changes to the graphics that they might want to 'impliment down the line' which is marketing-speak for 'I think this is really cool and I want to do it, but I haven't stuck my nose in my boss's ass deep enough yet for him to tell me it's okay.'

        For each change they suggested, I interrupted the meeting and very pointedly explained that particular change would add 'X' amount of time to the project.

        One of the exec VP's for my company was sitting right there. He just kept nodding in approval every time I opened my mouth.

        Our company is fairly successful, and we always come away with good 'customer service reviews' and this seemingly-rude behavior is one of the reasons why.
    • perhaps we should though.....it is all politics you know and when negotiating for time you should add to your estemate since managment already thinks that you have.
  • None of the Above (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gmhowell ( 26755 ) <gmhowell@gmail.com> on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:42PM (#2976317) Homepage Journal
    Or, perhaps, 'No One Above'. I like to work for myself. It's harder, possibly less pay, less guarantees. But at the end of the day, I have no one to blame but myself. And no one to thank but myself.

    Be careful of PHBs who know a little programming. Kinda that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Or those who know nothing "If C is good, C++ must be three times as good".

    If you can, talk to people who work at a company. Just like you are going to lie, bend the truth, and put on your best face at an interview and in a resume, so is the hiring person/manager who you talk to.

    Stay out of debt for a while. Keep driving that shitty car, and stay in that shitty apartment. You may get into a position that you hate, but be stuck in it due to debt and other responsibilities. Continue to stay flexible for a while. (That's why I'm not yet working for myself full time. F***ing mortgage.)

    Sorry. Not really on point. But I hope it helps.

    • --quote
      Be careful of PHBs who know a little programming. Kinda that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Or those who know nothing "If C is good, C++ must be three times as good".
      --end quote
      So how much programming should they know? You make it sound like no matter what you are screwed.
  • Trust (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anml4ixoye ( 264762 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:42PM (#2976318) Homepage
    The one thing that I respect most about my manager is that he trusts us to make decisions where he doesn't fully understand what we are doing. He is a Punch Card/Fortran programmer, and we are incorporating more web-based programming that he doesn't understand the exact syntax of. He makes an effort to learn, but when it comes down to technical decisions that he doesn't grasp (or doesn't have the time to), he trusts and respects our decision to make the right choice.


    Of course, with that comes responsibility on our part to actually make the right choice, but we know if we lose that trust, life will be much harder.

  • by warmcat ( 3545 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:42PM (#2976321)
    The sad truth is that the PHB has an even Pointier-headed boss and so on up until we reach the Splendid Majesty of Satan who Owns The Souls Of The Workers.

    As a manager of geeks you will come under ugly, ugly pressure from the next layer of idiots forcing you to make choices against your inclination, your will, it will be like an old 1950s horror film where your right hand is moving without your volition while the Demonic Forces Of Management snicker.

    I forecast it will be under three months before you find yourself saying to the Unwashed Geeks in your charge that your Agree with their Point Of View and if it was In Your Power you would Do this Thing, But....
  • your boss would listen to you, not the marketing team. Perferably, he or she would be in a position where they could not be bullied by outside forces. What would be really nice would be to be included in those nifty meetings that the managers seem to have so much fun in, so I can raise my little hand and say, excuse me, but what you suggest is not feasible, much less realistic. However, since you seem hell bent on doing this, when I realease this product, feel free to take responsibility for having pushed this project so hard.

    ok, sorry, went off a little, but it would be nice to be included in the thought process, so we can add our very important $.02.

    I wish you luck, most middle managers I know end up being told, "I don't care if the programming department says its un-realistic, just do it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:43PM (#2976328)

    1. To be technically proficient. Perhaps he or she is not up on all of the bleeding edge technology, but he/she needs to be rooted in IT and not accounting or especially not marketing.

    2. To understand the word "flexibility." Every part of IT is all about strange hours. Some coders do their best work at 3AM on the last night before a deadline, wired on Mountain Dew and pizza. A lot of network engineer types are in at super late hours, because that's when the maintenance windows are open. Because of this, managers -familiar- with all the quirks of IT schedules are an absolute must. Which once again goes back to choosing managers with backgrounds in IT. This is true for middle managers right on up to the director-level positions. As far as CTO/CIO executive positions go.. since it's more of a political position, I could see why someone not pure-bred IT might be a better fit. But then again, I think MBAs disguised as CIOs are a big part of the reason the IT market is in its current sorry state.

    3. An even but -fair- hand. It is good to hold your people to their deadlines. It is BAD to pressure them to the point where they're rushing through their work and making mistakes for fear of not hitting a deadline and being publically lambasted by their managers. A SMART manager knows that his team's failure is HIS/HER failure as well.

  • Understand SLACK. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Speare ( 84249 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:43PM (#2976329) Homepage Journal

    Upper managers want efficiency.

    Creative line employees want effectiveness.

    These are at odds with each other. You said it yourself, middle management is balance. Another way of stating this is that it's your job to provide the right amount of slack in the system.

    Slack: the Myth of Total Efficiency [amazon.com] by DiMarco seems to be a good modern, complementary companion to the ever-favored The Mythical Man-Month [amazon.com] by Brooks.

    It may not teach you anything earth-startlingly new, but it has got some good notes and ideas on how to deal with your prima-donna types, your slacker types, and your micro-managing cohorts.

  • by GSloop ( 165220 ) <`networkguru' `at' `sloop.net'> on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:43PM (#2976330) Homepage
    Instead of looking at the "needs" of your subordinates, first look at the company you want to work for.

    Sure, finding out how to support the people under you is important, but not the most important question.

    The most important question, is, "what is the company/mamangement I must work under like?"

    If your company is ethical and concerned about it's people (really concerned, not just financially concerned) your job will be much easier. Then the task only becomes finding ways to help your subordinates do their jobs. You'll spend lots less time fighting management above you to actually get this priviledge. That's a huge help.

    I know this sounds simplistic, but my exp in this area is that when I am empowered by the employer/upper management, I can really focus on doing what needs to be done. Lots less time is spent on CYA, political fighting, empire building etc. Then you're happy, you can be honest and upfront with your subordinates, and gain their respect and trust. (Trust, i think, is of paramount importance!) Then they'll tell you when you're doing stuff wrong, and help you from looking like a schmuck. Then you can help them get their needs met and be productive.

    The end result!? The company runs smoother, more efficiently, and more profitably.

    Thus, see what you're empowered to do by your managers, than when it's right, figure out what the specific needs of your subordinates are. They're never the same, but the overall principals are!

    Cheers!
  • I actualy have one of these geek-tech bosses. While this wouldn't be nessisarily true about all geek-bosses, he micromanages, A LOT. Since he knows whats going on he has an opinion about how everything should be done. It is incredibly agrivating. At the same time he does understand a lot more of the problems our group encounters. He also tends to get in the trenches and tech when we need to help. That has been a real life saver some times.

    My word of warning, let your subordiant geeks do there job the way they want to. They may have a diffrent style, try to adjust to it. Good luck!
  • by NecroPuppy ( 222648 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:43PM (#2976335) Homepage
    And don't play favorites.

    Management horror story.

    Reorg happens, I get stuck in a new team, with a manager who has a favorite group, and a least favorite group. I'm in the least favorite group.

    He asks me to provide an estimate for a project. I tell him I can't until I get the necessary information from his favorite group.

    He still insists on the estimate. I explain, in nausiating detail, how I can't give a reliable estimate until I have the necessary information.

    He asks for the estimate again. So I finally give him one; as he wasn't going to go away until I did. Padded the estimate all to hell to make sure I had plenty of time, in case things got screwed up.

    His favorites finally give me the information I need, and I do the project. It comes back from testing with all kinds of issues.

    It turns out that the other group decided to change about 80% of the database after they gave me the information; but didn't tell me.

    Needless to say, I missed the deadline. But it was all my fault because I couldn't mindread the work at home crowd. Two months later, I was involunatarily looking for a new job.

    Listen to your employees.
  • Are one's that will:
    • Not complain if I want to work from 10:00 A.M. to 7:00 P.M. (as long as it doesn't affect my customers)
    • Doesn't try to tell me how to do my job, particularily if they have little/no experiance in the language/system I'm working on
    • Will believe me when I say something will take X hours.
    • Doesn't second guess my decisions, particularily if I've been working with them for a while and have shown good judgement
    • Doesn't mind the fact that I like to listen to music when I code (and yes I use head phones so as not to distract others)
    • Let's me get my job done, and doesn't expect me to do a bunch of paperwork that I don't understand. I don't ask them, or (insert lackey), to do my coding. Don't expect me to fill out your upper level papers.


    Fortunatly where I work, my boss pretty much does all of those things.
  • Political advocate (Score:3, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:44PM (#2976343) Homepage Journal
    One critical job for a manager is political support. Many projects have the potential to step on the toes of other groups. The project's manager needs to act as an advocate for the project. If a manager tries to smooth over conflicts and act as a peacemaker, the project will suffer.
  • i want a boss who... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gonar ( 78767 ) <sparkalicious@@@verizon...net> on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:45PM (#2976350) Homepage
    a. clearly defines my tasks
    b. clearly defines my deadlines
    c. doesn't change priorities every freakin day
    d. leaves me the hell alone to get my work done and doesn't come by every three freakin minutes asking for a status update
    e. listens to me when I tell him it can't, or shouldn't be done
    f. doesn't demand to know every single thing I know about what I am doing, but only to know the things that truly matter for him.
    g. one that trusts me to come to him if I need help.

    • by Enonu ( 129798 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:21PM (#2976989)
      A lot of the above is in conflict with one particular problem in the work place: slackers. These people come into work about 20 to 40 minutes late every day, surf the web and drink coffee for another hour, and then start work. They then do so in a hap hazard way, and pretty much try to hack their way through with no decent thought to the consequences. Then, when the boss asks for a status update, they simply say "everything is going fine." One example in particular that stands out is that I knew a consultant who was able to get away with this for 6 months. That was the end of his contract, and he had nothing workable to show for the time and money spent. There's 35k and a half year down the drain!

      There of course is a happy medium to being able to catch these slackers early without annoying those who get work done. How about code reviews once ever two weeks at least? Have the PHB be involved, but give the employees a stressless enviornment.
  • Listen to the coders. Get their input on requirements, timeframes, deliverables, design, tools, technologies, and anything else that comes up.

    Listen to the developers.

    Oh, and while you're at it. Listen to the developers.

  • PHB Deluxe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:46PM (#2976355) Homepage Journal
    From personal experience, particularly the worst during periods of transition, the best boss is one who doesn't just keep channels of communication open, but uses them.

    Spend time each with with your analysts and coders, even if it's informal over coffee and doughnuts. Micromanage to your own peril, ignore staff to theirs and your own. Staffers are most productive when they feel their work has purpose and value. Keep informed on projects and status, don't just show up one day asking where a project is.

    Be prepared to go to the mat for your staff, since bigwigs often are more clueless than immediate managers. Be sure you can translate, understanding each ends expectations, needs (often far different from expectations.) If your staff needs resources, you'll have to battle for them, make sure they can defend needs, because you'll probably have to relay to your manager. If cost cutting, be very careful. Damage to morale is the start of downward spirals. Fight for a training budget and for Q/A resources (i.e. people) as these are far more crucial than most senior managers are aware of.

    Don't get dragged into more committees/groups meetings than you actually have time for. Poor time management of supers is one of my biggest gripes. Be available (see first topic.)


    Best of luck

  • No feature creep! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Styros ( 144779 )
    The worse thing that a manager can do is start asking for more and more from the system. A good manager will recognize that the system is complete. Many managers, including mine, think of development as an on-going, never-ending process.
  • I recently found out I have ADHD, which made me a really good helpdesk tech. I could multitask like no other and was one of the most productive people there. I got along great with all of my coworkers and all the fulltime staff. Unfortunately, management didn't see it this way. I guess going above and beyond isn't appreciated as much as it used to be. I'm currently looking for another helpdesk job where I can geek out and fix things....and pick up some experience in the process.

  • ANY. Out of work since Sept 12th 2001.

  • This could've been important 2 years ago, but now nobody in management really cares about your special needs. Tough market and economy means that you either take it or leave it, my way or highway..

    Time has passed when programmers/developers were given Aeron chairs and cappuchino machines. Now we are expected to work long hours and accept any conditions for what they are.

    I am sure this is going to start a flame, but I really think so. Once you, my friend, will get into management, you will understand that your priorities will always be more important than of your developers, you will see that your decisions will make more sense to you and you'll push for that.
  • Get adequate servers for dev work. PCs are relatively cheap. If you can set up a 'playbox' for each developer, as close to the final environment as possible, that can be a big boon. Too often I'm doing development on my NT desktop for something that's ultimately going to run on Solaris...it generally works ok because it's java, but any perl components and other things are likely to be screwed up. A linux box would be very useful, even if it's not in my cube...

    ...hand in hand with this is for big projects, do regular builds, preferably on a 'virgin' machine each week. This can be useful in goal setting/making as well as trying to avoid the "well it works on *my* PC" syndrome.
  • I wasn't in management directly, but when I was lead tech whenever I had a number of tasks to do I told my team I needed one less volunteer. I always picked up the task that no one else wanted to do and ran with it myself.

    Personally I'm way more motivated when my management not only knows what I do, but can do it too. Not to realistic in today's corporate culture, but maybe it should be. At least it's true in the company I work for now.

  • What I want. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bish ( 84411 )
    I want a manager that knows what the limitations are. Banging your head for hours on a problem might not be the answer when you could have redone it from scratch the correct way. Here's an example: just today I was asked to extract data out of an embedded processor on a board. There is no interface into the processor to get it out and the hardware possess no way of displaying this data. So, why the hell was I even asked to try when this is impossible?
  • by TheRealFixer ( 552803 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:48PM (#2976392)
    Let. Them. Code. Don't change focus on a project just after they start to get into it. Don't watch over their shoulders and make meaningless uninformed suggestions. Don't waste their time with pointless meetings. Just let them do their job.
  • Background: CS degree, Full-time developer in financial compaies for over 5 years. I've worked for 2 worldwide companies with huge IT departments. I've had the opportunity to do just a little project management with consultants working for me.

    So looking at it from the bottom, I've found the best managers I've met have all been past developers, at least to a small extent. For some reason, it seems managers with no programming experience can not accept many of the statements of their programmers. One common mistake is to think the programmer's adding unneeded development time - "Oh, it can't possibly take that long" as he trims the project schedule. Maybe it's a trust issue, I'm not sure, but it sure messes up lots of projects.

    Trust your most knowledgeable developers and get rid of all incompetent ones. One incompetant developer on a team seems to drag many projects down and makes the rest feel like they're making up the work of the bad programmer. Very bad for morale.

    My biggest problem with management right now is to get them to open their eyes to all technological options. They look to MS for everything and assume they have the best solutions. They ignore more appropriate technologies because of a few senior people who are afraid of change. And the lower managers don't care about licensing costs, but their bosses sure do. The big bosses trust their managers, however, so while complaining of cost, they go right along with MS.

    ... had to stop myself before this turned into a full blown rant...
  • to have a manager who actually manages, not simple a super programmer. That is, the manager should be someone who understands design processes, software architecture process, development processes, and manages the infrastucture to keep developers moving forward for whichever phase(s) they are currently working in. Technical experience is necessary, but studying management, including handling people and groups, is likewise necessary. This combination should result in a manger that doesn't make irresponsible promises (unrealistic goals). We know what happens when unrealistic goals are set: the geek corps to have to push the panic button, generally resulting in Bad Software. Reading something like Project Management : Best Practices for IT Professionals by Richard Murch (available from Barnes and Noble [barnesandnoble.com] is a Good Idea.
  • My biggest wish for the marketing/management types that i have to work with is that they wouldn't make assumptions about what is difficult and what is easy. For instance, they think of redesigning the whole look and feel of the U.I. as a minor cosmetic change, and they assume that changing some tweakable parameter in the code that does the real work is going to be difficult. The trick is that they have not always taken the time to understand the structure of the system, and aren't always willing to. They'll say "those are implementation details, you guys can do that however you think would work best", and then after the fact they will say "we want a change here". I guess the root of what I'm trying to get at is that anybody who is going to want code changes should make their needs clear during the design phase so the programmers know where to spend the extra time designing in excess flexibility, and where to spend their time writing a more optimized but less flexible solution. I know, people are going to say that everything should always be completely modular and flexible, and i agree, but it seems that no matter how much flexibility we design in, marketing comes up with one change that we have to rip up some serious code to accomidate.
  • Oh, come on... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tim ( 686 ) <timr AT alumni DOT washington DOT edu> on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:51PM (#2976419) Homepage
    I don't want to sound like a troll, but really, if you don't know the answer to this question already, you aren't ready to be a tech manager.

    I'm serious. You say that you're "not a great coder," but you provide no other information about your technical skill level. So, one can only assume that you're an inexperienced coder/hacker, and that you've never worked on a real project team before, let alone led one.

    My answer to your question is this: I've always wanted a boss who understood what I was doing as well as I did, and probably better. At the very least, I wanted a boss who had been through the grinder, and could understand why I was making certain choices, without second-guessing them. And honestly, if you don't have at least a few years of professional-level coding experience under your belt before you enter the world of tech management, you won't meet that requirement. In short: if you want to be a good tech manager, be a tech worker long enough to count.

  • by Bikku ( 531345 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:52PM (#2976435) Homepage
    hard core coder and suit-wearing schedule jockey.

    What new managers and future-PHBs knew but all-too-quickly forget is that geeks really do know what is possible and what is not, and when they tell you what is Good from the tech point of view, you should listen real hard.

    What techies who abhor management don't know, or at least fail to appreciate sufficiently, is that running a company involves all sorts of real-world trade-offs, and that technological Goodness is just one of dozens of factors that go into business decision-making. Having the best technology or product was never a recipe to business success (and the resulting ability to continue to pay techies and buy new toys).

    Upshot: when the techies tell you how long something will take, believe them. Don't arbitrarily shorten the schedule to please the Big Boss. Have the guts to tell senior management the truth (this is the essence of "standing up for your people"). But when the realities of business balancing acts turns unfavourable to the techies (eg, top management says "no" to GPL code), try to explain the rationale and legitimate logic of the decision. Corollary: if there isn't valid logic to explain, then you've failed at the "tell the boss the truth" step.

  • Orson Scott Card's essay said it best. Managing programmers is analagous to beekeeping:

    http://www.csn.ul.ie/~caolan/Texts/orson.html

  • I want a manager who understands the many "parts" of the product that I am working on (the building blocks, components, systems, what ever you want to call them).

    All too often, management sees the product as one big "black-box" (i.e.: marketing perspective) -- until when they understand the different parts that it is made up of, ONLY than will they appreciate the complexity of the system and hopfuly they begun to manage better.

    -----
  • by Prowl ( 554277 )
    was my manager's resignation.

    unfortunately he made me redundant before i had the chance to see it :-/
  • by caperry ( 31048 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:57PM (#2976466) Homepage
    I just recently stepped up to the plate you are thinking about taking a month or so ago at my company. My purpose in the office now is to act as a firewall between the developers and the rest of the company. So far, this has worked well - but it meant some sacrifices. Here is what I did:

    First off is meetings. I'm in all of them now. I get callled into them on a whim. It sucks, but at least the developers can keep coding instead of being sucked into meetings.

    No more code. I'm barely writing code in the office now. This has been an adjustment. I suggest you find a few projects to satisfy your coding needs in your off time and DO NOT BRING THEM UP AT WORK. I made the mistake of that once, and the company tried to sell my hobbies as products.

    Be prepared to stand your ground. Upper management has no idea how the development process works. Writing code is a creative process, not a color-by-number process. It's going to take some work to make them understand that.

    Take control of the development path for your team. Don't let the people above you bypass you and put your developers on other projects. Come up with a new management system. My immediate bosses are both Ph.Ds. They want down to the minute stats of what is going on - don't do it. You need to find a better model for managing deadlines and people (I adapted the management devices presented in eXtreme Programming).

    Allow your developers freedom. The developers under me come and go as they please. They don't have fixed hours, but they do have fixed minimums. They are required 40hrs/week, but when is up to them. Remeber, coding is a creative process. If you have inspiration at 2am, then you should be able to excercise that inspiration.

    Devlopers are not robots. Just because the boss (who doesn't sleep) sees a developer in the office at 2am doesn't mean that all the devlopers are available or that they should be interrupted. This one I am still working on. I get calls all weekend from my bosses asking for work to be done because they see one of the developers logged in.

    Above all, be fair. Don't baby your developers and treat the rest of the company like trash. I have one (short) weekly meeting with the developers to discuss strategy and planning two days after the manager's meeting. This way the developers do not look like they are being treated special by not having to go to meeting, and everyone stays informed. It seems to work well.

    Bumpy as this ride has been - it seems to be working. It will be tough for the first month (esp. if you are inserting code management, feature management, and bug management tools into your work flow), but it's a much needed thing. The productivity of our developers has gone through the roof sice I put on my flame-proof clothing and block the door to the developer cube-farm with my desk. 8^)
  • Good luck... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by eliasfallon ( 468746 )
    As a technical type who allowed himself to be pushed into the management arena, and dove back out as quickly as possible.... Good Luck!

    As I think a couple of other posters mentioned, even at the best companies its very difficult to keep a level head, and resist the pressures from upper management and marketing/sales.

    As far as what I want:
    - Assuming you do a good job in the planning phase and listen to your employees and make a schedule (don't laugh, it happens occasionally). The real trick is.....

    6 months later when your boss wants to do another round of 'strategic planning'... Don't let them change all the plans again unless there is a good reason! It is very frustrating to constantly have the moving target goal as a developer. This is not to say that plans can't change, they always have to, but include your employees in the 'redesign' phase as well as the 'design' phase. I've seen plenty of good managers fall apart here when good plans had to get changed at the last minute

    Anyway, good luck.
  • talk to us (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MrDingDong ( 192786 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @04:57PM (#2976474)
    My manager is in a different state and I only see him 3-4 times a month. He gives me NO work or feedback... I have to dig it up myself from the users. In fact, he is a hardware guy on the PC side and I do Unix systems admin, so our talk is pretty much just "small talk". I've told him that I'm in the wrong group, but it goes nowhere. I wish I had a manager that I could talk with and who understood my work.
  • PHB (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Smitty ( 15702 )
    Must have the following qualities, in no particular order:

    - Able to manage the client's expectations! This has been the biggest failing of nearly all my manager's to date.
    - Has enough specific technical knowledge and general intelligence to understand the task, the design, and the implementation, at least at a high level.
    - Very well organized. Must keep track of all of a project's details, schedules, technical issues, budgets, etc.. Seems obvious but it's a good reason why I wouldn't make a good manager.
    - Good communication skills (for obvious reasons).
    - Able to hash out cohesive, complete, and unambiguous requirements with the client.
    - Willing to kick some programmer ass (including mine) when they're slacking off. This won't win you friends amongst the programmers but will make projects run much smoother.
    - Willing to act as a shield for the programmers to allow them to remain focused.
  • And still more: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mblase ( 200735 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:08PM (#2976558)
    - Make sure there's more than one of us in the department so that we can communicate with like minds. Encourage us to do so. Pair us up on every project so we can learn from each other.

    - Don't leave us out of the initial project development. We can provide valuable input when the software is being designed in the first place, by offering suggestions about what is and isn't possible or feasible.

    - Respect our schedules. If we need to work odd hours, take erratic breaks, or do half the job from home -- as long as we get the job done on time and turn in our hours -- let us do it.

    - Write things down for us. ESPECIALLY when we're not invited to the meetings. When someone spends their entire career in ASCII, it helps to have assignments in that format as well.

    - If we don't want to do stupid changes, entice us to do them anyways. If we don't want to do impossible changes, help us work out an alternative.

    - Hook us up with the client's geeks so that we can swap technical details without going through more time-consuming channels. Ask for CCs of all the emails so you can say you're still involved. Don't hook us up with the client's contact. They're not as intelligent as you are.

    - Nod and smile when we play with our action figures or Nerf guns at our desks. They keep us sane.

    - Motivate us with free food. When necessary, bribe us with it. Let us pick the restaurant. Relax, we're cheap.

  • by royalextra ( 545781 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:11PM (#2976572)
    1) *Always remember where you came from*. The biggest sin you could ever commit is forgetting what it was like to be the programmer/admin/etc.

    2) Value the opinions of your staff. Listen to what your staff says & find the balance between what they want & the project requires. If your staff feels like their opinions count, they're more likely to trust you & follow your decisions.

    3) Make a decision & stick to it. The worst decision you could ever make is not making one at all.

    4) Find what success means to each member of your staff & help them achieve it. That is the key to *your* success as a manager. (Staff success == your success)

    5) The definition of "management" is delegating responsibility to others. Delegate != give away (responsibility). You have LESS responsibility but MORE ACCOUNTABILITY as a manager.
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:24PM (#2976647)
    1. As a programmer the things that usually gets to me the most is having more then one project, When I am programming I want to focus on my job and not a buch of jobs.

    2. When asking for the Time Estimate for a project to be done. Dont expect it to be fixed in stone. Some people overestimate their time and others underestamate. Usually programmers want to underestamate the time and their estimations is the time that it will take them to program if they are in top programming form witch most of the time they are not.

    3. Try to keep destractions at a minimum. If you see the programmer staring or pointing at the screen try not to bug them because they are in usually in deep thought and need to concitrate on what is happening if they get distracted they loose it and have to start over from the start again.

    4. Make sure that the tempture that they are working is confortable. A lot of time is spent on trying to warm up their hands. Or get groggy if it is to hot.

    5. Allow programmer to distract them self with webbrowsing, games or personal contact for about an hour or so a day.
    6. Try to have people work in teams. People have different skills and likes and dislikes. Although a programer should be able to do the other programmers jobs. But if one person likes making interfaces and the other likes more system level coding have them work together so the work get done faster and work with more effert because they are focusing on their favorate part.

    7. Credit. Give them credit for their work. People like to know that they did something to make a difference.

    8. Understand their morals. If the programmer hates SPAM dont give them a job to sort mailing lists.

    9. Allow for the right tool for the right job. Dont force the programmers to use a fixed set of tools to get a job done. If your a web development company and you use FrontPage a lot. Dont discorage a Programmer who poped open a text editor to do some web development. The GUI may look nice but sometimes we need to go underneeth. Also the inverse is true to if you have all Text apps and the programmer is useing a GUI, Let him give it a try it may make the programming time quicker.

    10. Keep their computers Up To date. Top of the line every 3 years or the Average system every 2 years. Or a chepo system every year. Your customers are using the modern systems as so should you. It helps to keep you on top of the new techoligy and by the time the project gets done is becomes standard. Also Less waiting for compiles and processing makes bug checking quicker and less painful.
  • by Gannoc ( 210256 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:28PM (#2976673)
    Geeks have special needs, and accommodating those needs (and 'odd' behaviors) is a good idea all around, for both employee morale and department output.

    No its not. If an employee can't act like a professional, you get rid of them. Very, very few projects require people smart enough to put up with a bunch of crap from them.

    Yeah, its really hip to have that one guy come in at work at 2pm and work until 9 at night, because he's so damn elite, until you realize that he's unable to interact with all of the _adults_ who have children and real-life responsibilities. Its called a team. "Oh, I don't work well in the morning." Oh, i'm so sorry! Gee, because the rest of us automatically wake up at 6:30am chipper and ready to go!

    Ooh, and lets pamper the programmers with soda and candy and teddy bears and futuristic chairs. Until the rest of the company, who work just as hard as the programmers, begin to get a little pissed off. Soda is 30 cents a can. Suck it up.

    Lets not forget a dress code. Yeah, lets not enforce that, you don't need to look good to program, man. Until that one programmer wearing the 2 sizes too small phantom menace t-shirt with the body odor turns off a potential client. Is wearing a pair of dockers and a shirt that doesn't have a fucking wookie on it going to kill you?

    Lets have a nerf gun fight! Woopie! Two guys want to fuck around, so the entire floor can't get anything done because two guys are running around screaming. "Oh, please hold Mr. Potential Customer, I have a nerf dart in my fucking eye." Maybe the rest of us _aren't_ working late that night and need to get stuff done. Maybe i'm at your cube, waiting patently for you to get done PLAYING.

    I'm looking at moving up to management as well, but you sure as hell shouldn't. I'm not looking to liberate my brothers from clueless management, i'm just sick of working with people who are so busy playing video games, installing linux, and bitching about management, that they haven't developed the communication skills needed to EXPLAIN to someone why its going to take a certain amount of time to do something.

    Nah, don't explain it to them. Just sit in your cubes and make Dilbert jokes.

    Oh, here's a bonus tip for other people out there who blame management for everything: When you're only in a few hours of meetings a week, don't use that as an excuse why you can't get shit done. Yeah, it would be nice to work in a crystal castle with cushions and butterflies and nobody to bother you with petty problems that don't concern Mr. L33T Programmer, but that isn't going to fucking happen.

    Damn, this was almost as bad at this [slashdot.org] arrogant asshole.

    • by PhotoGuy ( 189467 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:06PM (#2976913) Homepage
      Man, this whole discussion is worth the price of admission, if only for this one line:
      Is wearing a pair of dockers and a shirt that doesn't have a fucking wookie on it going to kill you?
      :-)
    • Wow, nice rant.

      Ooh, and lets pamper the programmers with soda and candy and teddy bears and futuristic chairs. Until the rest of the company, who work just as hard as the programmers, begin to get a little pissed off.

      Let's start out by not pretending that everyone is NOT of the same intelligence, shall we? Therefore, one person's "working hard" might be another's "bullshit busy-work". Just because you stay for the same amount of time a programmer does, doesn't mean you worked just as hard as (s)he did, and vice versa.

      That said, it's not as if you can go out and claim any programming job without a degree, unless you are coding web scripts for Amazon. This is NOT programming. It's scripting. And frankly, anyone can learn to Script in 21 days. That said, programmers ARE very educated people and THEY make the product YOU are cold-calling people to trying to sell.

      Let's pretend now that they didn't exist at your company - oops, now you have no job. I'm not saying that other people at the company aren't important, but let's not forget who is actually CREATING PRODUCT here.

      Soda is 30 cents a can. Suck it up.

      Exactly. If I make $40 an hour and drink 1 soda an hour, what's 30 cents more? Stop fucking whining.

      Two guys want to fuck around, so the entire floor can't get anything done because two guys are running around screaming. "Oh, please hold Mr. Potential Customer, I have a nerf dart in my fucking eye."

      If you're "working hard" talking to a client, why are you in the development area? Typical of me, a developer, to blame management on this one, but shouldn't you be in an office so that even conversations at a reasonable volume won't disturb your conversations with potential customers? Seems like a no-brainer there.

      Lets not forget a dress code. Yeah, lets not enforce that, you don't need to look good to program, man. Until that one programmer wearing the 2 sizes too small phantom menace t-shirt with the body odor turns off a potential client. Is wearing a pair of dockers and a shirt that doesn't have a fucking wookie on it going to kill you?

      I don't know about everyone else, but I can't think when the clothes I'm wearing are uncomfortable. If I am more productive when I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt then management will allow it. No one fucking sees me anyway, unless I go to the cafeteria and even then they probably think I'm on the janitorial staff. Who cares??

      Yeah, its really hip to have that one guy come in at work at 2pm and work until 9 at night, because he's so damn elite, until you realize that he's unable to interact with all of the _adults_ who have children and real-life responsibilities. Its called a team. "Oh, I don't work well in the morning." Oh, i'm so sorry! Gee, because the rest of us automatically wake up at 6:30am chipper and ready to go!

      It's funny you claim you're an adult - because after reading this rant, I don't believe it.
      • by Xerithane ( 13482 ) <xerithane AT nerdfarm DOT org> on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:22PM (#2977276) Homepage Journal
        I don't know about everyone else, but I can't think when the clothes I'm wearing are uncomfortable. If I am more productive when I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt then management will allow it.

        My guess is that if you think jeans and a tshirt are comfortable you have never had a pair of nice slacks on. I used to wear jeans and such. Then i discovered the art of Nordstroms and nice slacks. Yeah, they may cost $60 a pair. A good pair of slacks is like coding in pajamas.

        I can fully believe he's an adult because I've had almost the same rant a few times. I've also worked in a really great development area that had no fucking special geeks with their damned starwars toys and imaginary light sabers and we did a lot better there.

        There is no correlation between star wars obsessed dipshits and good coders. I view that as a deficit in their abilities. If they can't figure out how to behave in regards to those around them, they obviously don't have the problem solving skills necessary.
    • What a ridiculously stereotypical (and old-fashioned) view of geeks/programmers. Most of us are:

      clean

      dressed tidily, if casually

      socially adjusted

      not likely to need to interact with clients

      We may have some unusual needs for our work environment and many of the other replies have well explained the reasons for these.

  • My dream PHB... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by chrysalis ( 50680 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:34PM (#2976716) Homepage
    would be someone that simply want the project (or the network, or the database, according to what's your supposed to do) to *work* regardless of the *ways* it works.

    Lousy PHBs often want you to design something the way they want. Because they read an article about C# and .Net in a magazine, they want you do use it even if three lines of shell would achieve a similar (and bug-free) result. They have pre-established ideas like "Linux is unreliable", "MySQL is better", "Apache is supported, use nothing else", "Always design your project with UML first", etc. And they don't even want you to prove them that something else can also work.

    Geeks are efficient with the tools they know. Not with what you force them to use. If an employee wants to complete a project using QNX + WN + Python, give him the opportunity to do so. Don't judge him according to the tools he's using. Just wait for the result. It works? It has been finished on time? It looks bug-free? Ok. So why yell because the guy used his favorite tools instead of arbitrary recommended ones?

    A geek will be bored, and inefficient if you force him to use software he doesn't like. The key here is : motivation.



  • by tomq123 ( 194265 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:35PM (#2976718)
    1. Give me a cool project to work on.
    2. Leave me alone until I'm done.
    3. Pay me.
    • A boss who leans over your shoulder every five minutes and gives misguided advice is a useless, but Leave me alone until I'm done is equally fatal. The majoroity of programming projects are characterised by deadline overruns.

      There is a happy medium. "management is about balance" as someone else remarked in here.

      Or, "don't go dark" as another project management guru remarked: If your project is in an unknown state, get it into a known state as soon as posible. Knowing that you are overtime is always better than not knowing.

      My ideal boss in this case would:
      - Orgainsise so that there is a real-world deliverable that will get used and bring feedback from end-users within six months.
      - Help set milestones towards that occur regularly on the way to that goal.
      - Make sure that activities besides coding take place, such as QA, code reviews, a modicum of design, documentation, etc.
      - Ensure that the users are consulted so that what they get initially is vaugly usefull to them.
      - Have a development meeting roughly once per week so that we can see if we are meeting our milestones, and if not, then revise our schedule, throw out features, or otherwise make sure that we are still in contact with reality.

  • by mkb ( 88436 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @05:53PM (#2976832)
    1) Communicate your expectations clearly.

    2) Listen.

    3) Focus on the work itself, not the window dressing. The hours, manner, and location in which I work don't matter so long as I deliver good results on time.

    4) Recognize that some technical problems are not progressive and people cannot give a time estimate. "When will you find the bug?" often does not have a meaningful answer. There is no such thing as X percent done with this kind of task and the rate of progress cannot be measured. It's done when it's done.

    5) Don't be afraid to discipline those who need it.

    6) Dish out praise when it is warranted. Our egos sometimes need stroking.

    7) Beware of false economies. When schedules are tight, do not throw good software engineering practices out the window. If you do so, it will usually bite you in the ass.

    8) Pay attention to team building. Will a prospective new hire fit in well? How can you help people to work well together? This will sometimes mean finding a way to keep incompatible workers out of the others' hair. Play together outside of work.

    9) Pay attention to skill building. When possible, assign people to tasks (or suggest methods) where they can grow. Some tasks will take a bit longer in the short term, but you win in the long term. Skilled people can do more and work faster. People who feel like they are growing are happier, more productive, and stay around longer.

    10) Set priorities and stick to them.

    11) Don't bullshit.

    12) Set a good example.

    13) Accept the fact that people have lives outside of work.

    14) Realize that time is a finite resource. If I leave my primary task to fight a fire, that means I am not progressing on my primary task.

    15) Negotiate realistic deadlines.

    16) Know your stuff.

    17) Give people good tools.

    18) Keep your word.
  • Middle Management (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jd10131 ( 46301 ) <james@emdFREEBSData.net minus bsd> on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:00PM (#2976884) Homepage
    I once worked for a dot-bomb banner advertising company in Vancouver.

    We spent a lot (5 man years worth) of money developing an ad serving system. After it was put online, the upper management decided to change direction! They began to resell DoubleClick's ad space. Bizarre.

    Once, when they cooked up one of their hair-brained schemes to make money, the developers had to cry out for a business plan to justify their decisions. As usual, they came up with numbers that were pulled from thin air and completely ludicrous. "Look, this justifies it."

    One of the developers put together some statistics that were more realistic, regarding time to break even (it was over 20 years, in an ideal situation) His first draft didn't use enough pictures, so he added some charts. They still didn't get it.

    Now said company is a spam marketing agency, using someone else's distribution lists, and someone else's servers to do the distribution.

    I am ashamed to say I ever worked for such a place, but at least I know what not to do.

    Moral of the story: Listen to your developers; anyone who can grok perl is probably better at math than your average marketroid.
  • 1) Adding more people (especially entry level) to a project does not get it done quicker.

    2) Most of the time, one cannot justify reducing the schedule of a project by equally reducing the requirements as requirements are often interdependent.

    3) Every moment a programmer spends filling out paper work, attending training, or attending meetings goes against productivity by a factor of 2. Productive programming requires long uninterrupted durations of time. If these things are required, block them together to maximize programming durations.

    4) Some problems just can't be solved by throwing money at them. Therefore it is important to have a knowledgable person within each team to determine whether something is technically feasible. Essentially, management should generally not try to determine the technically feasibility of a task.

    5) Large teams are not more productive. While it's tempting to float unproductive people on productive teams, the team will take a huge productivity hit. It makes more sense to have some projects fail and other succeed rather than having everything delivered half-ass.

    I partially agree with some of the things expressed about not given in to the dot-com type attitude. Managers really have to crack down on people that goof off too much. Goofing off too much should be judged by the individuals productivity and how their goofing off effects others productivity.

    If you have a guy that helps everyone and is 3 or 4 times more productive than everyone else, then if he is surfing the net, leave it be. On the other hand, if you have an individual who hasn't written a working line of code in a month and sits around chatting all day, well, then a manager needs to step in.

    The flexibility of a programmers work habits should be a priviledge, not a right.
  • managers faq (Score:3, Informative)

    by leiz ( 35205 ) <leiz@juno . c om> on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:15PM (#2976959)
    for those of you who do not completely understand this 'manager' thingy, read the faq

    http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/faqs/manager.html
  • by Derek ( 1525 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:27PM (#2977016) Journal
    I work at a company where every manager rates each employee on a curve. (You remember those from college?) It turns out that I work in a group of very skilled and competent programmers. I can't indentify any obvious baggage at all in our team of 10. Each year, however, our manager must chose two of us and give us unsatisfactory ratings for the year. Basically that means that this person won't get a raise for over a year!

    This decision is made completely independent of that persons accomplishments, it is simply a matter of being on the low end of a very good team. I could never manage in a situation like this, in fact, I can barely work in it.

    -Derek
  • by Peridriga ( 308995 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:31PM (#2977026)
    Best manager I've ever had made it a rule..
    And posted this on the door of our office.


    if ((Date.DayofWeek == 'Friday') && (WorkDay == 'Over))
    {
    while (!PassedOut)
    {
    #include beer.h; // Flavor of beer.h dependent on payscale
    NumBeers++;
    }

    if (WakeUpInMorning)
    {
    Body.Mouth.TakeAdvil(NumBeers/3);
    Body.Move.GotoBathRoom();
    Body.Stomach.CoreDump();
    }
    Body.Sleep();
    }
  • trust (Score:3, Interesting)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportlandNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:34PM (#2977045) Homepage Journal
    Trust us.
    We're the professionals, we know what we're doing.

    I worked for a financial orginization. There was a project that had failed twice, and they dumped it on some poor manager who didn't know the technology very well. So what did that manager do?
    He hired an IT to be team lead, and said here's what we want, make it happen.
    3 years latter thay had one killer application. It would of beendone sooner, but once people relized it was going to be a success we got a lot of upper managment leachs that new "what we need ot change".
    total cost:80 million dollars. I know you think thats a lot, but we cut there total cost per loan so much, the made it back in the first quarter.
    which brings me to my next point:
    Rewards. We saved the company 80+million a month, they gave us baseballs. granted the complete team(developers, testers, document people, etcc was about 100 people) but still, baseballs?
    no, what would have been cool is a bonus equal to a years salary. yes that would have been a lot of money, but nothing inspres employee loyalty then cash. They came to us with an idea that would save them another wad of cash, but because we busted are butt, and got the same thing we would of got if we didn't bust are butt, we all left to greener pasture. that was just as the boom was starting to ramp up pretty heavily, so it probably would have save them money to giave a hugh bonus like that.
    in short
    trust us, give proportionate rewards.
  • by Kefaa ( 76147 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:04PM (#2977204)
    As a developer who became a senior developer, then architect, then started his own consulting company, here are some things I think are of value when working with technical people (myself included).

    Start the day with the idea that you are a tow truck on the expressway. Your objective is to remove as many obstructions that prevent your team from being successful as possible. Some are wrecks; some are just breakdowns. The tow truck driver's job is keep traffic moving.
    Remember that some things cannot be removed by every tow truck. I cannot change the 401k contributions made by the company. I can get the client to test the PFB window because it is holding up the rest of the project.

    Bill your team's time. Even if the company does not. Add up your team salary, double it (to include benefits, cost to manage their desktops, office space, etc.), divide by 2000 and you will get a rough idea of what an hour costs. The mistake I see managers make is to assume time is free if the person is on a salary.

    I am strong proponent of the OA5 (Out At 5) Dilbert concept. If your team is constantly working long hours, what is wrong? (and yes something is wrong) Long hours should be the exception not the rule. Salaried workers are not "free after 40".

    Just because someone asks for something right away, or declares it an emergency, does not make it an emergency. Ask the questions "How many? How much? How long?" Everyone should understand triage. (bill your time)

    Watch for the 3:30 dump. This is common even among developers. I was notified of a problem at 10 a.m. then at 3:30 I dump it onto someone else as "not my area". This often results in unnecessarily long hours because now it is your issue.

    Force teamwork. There are thousands of books on this. It is real easy to have 20 individual performers. It is hard to create a 20 person team. (Tip: I have found a a white board in the aisle for impromptu design sessions starts this process. It includes anyone who wants to listen. Team participation should be encouraged as newbies learn and wisdom comes from strange places.)

    Ask your team what they expect from each other, not just from you. The 26-year-old college graduate has different expectations than the 20 year veteran. Some of it has to do with their personal lives (She does not mind working until 4.a.m. for six weeks straight), and some of it is experience.(He wants to see things go through change control, even 'trival' fixes, because he gets the call in the middle of the night).

    Invoke the 360-degree appraisal process. This means evaluations by peers, teammates, and people working for the person and people who the person is working for. Keep it short. What three things can this person improve on and what three things do they do well?

    Communicate with outside groups the status for your team. However, let your team take a role too. You do not always need to give the presentation or send out the status. If your team cannot commuincate, then that is an area to work on too.

    Development is not like widget making. We wish it was, but it is not. Solutions come to people at different times in different ways. Some people are early morning and like to start at 5:30 a.m. Others are late night and like to start at noon. If at all possible let them, even if it is unofficial. However, be certain there is plenty of overlap so team dynamics get a chance.

    CROSS TRAIN. Every person should be training someone else on the team to do his or her job. There are a few good reasons, but let me make the list simple: A team member goes to lunch and wins the lottery, or as a developer I cannot do project ZPQ because there is no one to take my position.

    Never tolerate disrespect in any form against anyone. Everyone has frustration but disrespect is a different beast.

    Finally, you cannot be part of a team if you are not there. Sit in the aisle with your team and listen. You will be amazed at how much is really happening when you are with your team hour by hour. Why does the customer call John directly? Why is Sue asking about a project that was completed three months ago? Mary, who hardly speaks in meetings, is the person the team goes to when stuck. Having an office is a great prestige item. Use it to meet in private or to have formal meetings.

    Good luck. Being put in charge is easy, being a good leader is difficult.
  • by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @10:14PM (#2977765)
    As someone who has lead technical projects, here's my viewpoint:

    1. Let me know when there is a problem - early on so I can get help and resolve it. If a spec isn't clear, let me know so I can get an answer.

    2. Remember, better is the enemy of good enough - at some point, it's time to let the working code go and not try to wring even more performance out of it - as long as it does what is needed.

    3. Sure, writing documentation and help screens suck - but everyone has to take their turn in the barrel.

    4. Don't keep trying to get your pet hardware/software through based on a project "need" or "solution." Yea, I know you want a bigger, faster box running Linux, but once it's clear that it ain't happening, constantly bringing it up as the "solution" to every problem is counter-productive. ( A real situation I ran into - one of our programers kept pushing a Linux server becasue he needed one for another project (that was on hold but that he wanted to revive))

    4. Have a life - if your getting burned out, say so. Everyone needs a break, and let me run interference for you. As a follow-on, when the rules get bent to help the team, don't brag about it.

    5. Finally, we're all part of the same team. As much as the engineer in me hates to admit it, without sales and marketting moving product, we don't get paychecks or new toys at work to play with. Th best we can hope for is to keep marketting and sales from lying to much when they make promises to a customer.

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