Mini-PC w/o Fans? 70
blinky2 asks: "I just read this article on Tom's Hardware about small PC-cases. I would really like to have a small box next to my current one for development stuff etc. Here's the problem: I don't want to have any fans in it, and case like the one in the article needs heavy cooling. Is there anything out there that is small and doesn't need any cooling? the box should run 24/7 here in my room and i don't want to hear some noise while I sleep. A case like the SAX01 from Gigabyte would be nice, too. BTW, there is no need for a high-performance box: something like 300-500 Mhz with a moderate amount of RAM would be enough." A while ago, Ask Slashdot tackled this very question, has the intervening time made such a system a practical possibility?
Fanless server w/ Crusoe (Score:3, Informative)
Strange idea (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Strange idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Want a silent supply? Adapt the output of one from a Mac Performa. Or buy a Cube or iMac.
It's simple really, you want decent hardware, buy decent hardware!
Disclaimer: I am not a Mac Fanatic, I do not own my Performa 630TV any more - tis DEC all the way baby...
Re:Strange idea (Score:3, Insightful)
So..
Enermax EG651P-VE FMA $185
NV7M $136
XP1800 $133
MC462 $57
256 kingmax DDR PC2100 $69
Travelstar 40gb $201
CD $20
Brand name microATX $40
So, $840 for a silent Tiny 1Ghz/ 40Gb/ 256Mb/ GF2mx/ Ether/ Modem/ Dolby6.1
Or get an Imac
Easy Choice Liquid Cooling (Score:3, Interesting)
Easy choice for cooling a small case. Get a liquid cooling system like one from Koolance. [koolance.com] It would be quiet and cheap and sounds like what you want. But I don't think Koolance offers solutions for small cases so try a different company. Liquid cooling is the most efficient way of cooling a small case so go with it. Then you can add a fast processor, hard drive, and other extras and not worry about heat.
Re:Easy Choice Liquid Cooling (Score:3, Informative)
"As far as the noise level is concerned, the new Koolance system is not quite as inconspicuous as the old one. At medium heat levels in the processor core, the three fans can produce quite a racket."
Also, It's a mid tower not a micro atx as pictured here [gigabyte.com.tw] (This is the propper link)
Fanless power supply (Score:3, Informative)
Finally, Silicon Acoustics (who also sell the fanless 866MHz VIA C3 processor [siliconacoustics.com]) have managed to wrestle some power supplies from TKPower. At $200 [siliconacoustics.com], it is a bit steep, but is the only real safe way to have a fanless power supply. The form factor isn't standard ATX, but it is electrically compliant. If this could fit into that Gigabyte appliance case along with a C3, that'd be the way to go.
Ian
Maybe not so steep (Score:3, Informative)
Also, if you have allergies, a device that accumulates -- and heats! -- dust is not the best thing to have around.
CPU/Motherboard suggestion (Score:2, Insightful)
Single Board Computer from Advantech (Score:2, Informative)
I just finished building one of the Shuttle boxen (Score:2, Informative)
I went to Radio Shaft and picked up a couple centrifugal fans which are almost silent but move a lot of air. And once I decided voiding the warrenty was an option, I replaced the powersupply fan and the rear exhaust fan. A resister on the CPU fan helped quite that one. Finally with rubber insulation between all the body panels and the fan mounts, and a nice coat of black paint to match the TV and reciever it works pretty nicely.br>
With these mods the sound is hardly noticable above the already existing sounds in the apartment like the 'fridge and A/C.
One problem I would still like to solve is figuring out how to push the FSB down to 100MHz when using a stock 1GHz PIII. This would let me slow the CPU fan down even more than it is currently.
Re:I just finished building one of the Shuttle box (Score:1)
Re:I just finished building one of the Shuttle box (Score:1)
Cooling problems? (Score:2)
How hot does your system run after about 30 minutes of 100% CPU utilization? What kind of chip do you have in it, and are you using a PCI card in it?
consider an iMac (Score:2)
Underclock your fans... (Score:3, Informative)
Some kits with dials are sold for this job, though you can do the same thing by doing some math and calculating what resistor to get. Plenty of details are in the links below;
http://www.cocoon-culture.com/lib/noise-report/c om puter-noise-report.htm
http://www.hardware-corner.net/guides/fanbus_1.p hp
http://people.freenet.de/s.urfer/fan_control.htm
http://www.overclockers.com/tips746
Re:Underclock your fans... (Score:3, Informative)
As a cheap alternative to a fan controller, I've been using these PCB thermostats [allelectronics.com] to control fans.
For a buck you get a little four-legged chip (fits standard 8-pin-DIP sockets) that closes a circuit when the temperature rises to around 75-80C.
Rated for 1A and 120VAC, more than enough for your average PC cooling fan. Just tack to the hottest chip(s) on your board with heatsink epoxy.
Re:Underclock your fans... (Score:1)
IANAEE(*), but from following the discussions in various newsgroups i gather that one should use diodes in line rather than resistors (approx 0.7 V drop per diode, is this true?). I'm sure someone here can give an explanation why this is so (of if it's just voodoo engineering).
Raymond
(*) I am not an electrical engineer
You either generate less heat, or move it silently (Score:3, Interesting)
Examples of the first method (make less heat) would be:
Get a laptop that doesn't have a fan.
Use an older computer or SBC (P100, etc)
Examples of the second method would be:
Using heat pipes to move heat away from the processor to a convection cooled heatsink
Water cooling to a convection cooled heatsink (requires a method such as one discussed recently, or a silent pump)
A seperate noisy bit located in another area (forinstance - you have the noisiest part of your air conditioner outside your home)
Which method you choose depends on the processing power you need, and your budget.
But then, you probably already knew this and were hoping for something in the 'cheap', 'little work', 'high power' bin. Unfortunately nothing currently exists that fulfills all three. If you really don't mind a low power system, then you can experiment with a k6-2 running at 200MHz or so, with a 300w PS. You'd have to put a big fanless heatsink on the k6-2, and arrange the case such that natural chimney effect airflow will go past all the major components and through the fanless 300w ps (which should be providing less than 100w). Don't put more than a single 5400rpm HD in there (or diskless boot, if possible - look at cheap compactflash - ide adaptors), and skip the cd and floppy unless absolutely needed. Use an all-in-one low end motherboard.
-Adam
Painting the Case (slightly OT) (Score:2, Funny)
Also, would black crinkle paint do any better than flat black or glossy? Crinkle paint might be an idea for the guy who wanted to build a retro looking PC a while ago.
Re:Painting the Case (slightly OT) (Score:1)
I painted the outside of my case recently, it had no real effect.
Via C3/Cyrix III Processor (Score:3, Informative)
If you want to stick with an Intel processor, you may want to look at the 0.13u version of the Celeron processor and cut the bus speed down to 66Mhz (if the chipset supports it) and cut down voltage (if possible). That should reduce the power consumption (and thus heat dissipation) by a fair amount.
Covered this last week! (Score:2)
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/1
showcased two micro PC's from Dgital-Logic
http://www.digitallogic.com/english
Which were both fanless and tiny.
Does nobody actually read Slashdot any more? How shoddy can you get??
Re:Covered this last week! (Score:1)
Used laptop (Score:2, Informative)
I have K6-III/450 on 24/7 in my room. I replaced the power supply with an ultra-quiet one but not the CPU fan, though they are available too. I lucked out with a couple very quiet disks (one from my TiVo and a new 160 GB Maxtor).
It's quiet enough that I can watch TV or listen to music and not be bothered by the white noise. And I got used to the noise it does make so I have no trouble sleeping.
If I replace the CPU fan the machine will be *very* quiet.
Re:Used laptop (Score:2)
G4 CubeEsque (Score:4, Informative)
They also pulled out the power supply, which I think would be a must for ANY fan-less system. Putting this heat-generating monster outside the case significantly drops the temperature (and provides the user a GREAT foot-warmer).
Finally, as many other readers have said, look at ways to reduce heat generation - slower or cooler CPU & vid card, lower RPMs on your hard drive, etc. The G4 can blow quite warm when I'm giving it a workout and it's only 400MHz, I think anything over 5-600 may be beyond the limits of convection cooling.
Devil's Advocate (Score:1)
Maybe it's time to look at some of the solid-state disk postings too?
Re:Devil's Advocate (Score:1)
cool and quiet - they go together (Score:1)
Re:G4 CubeEsque (Score:2, Informative)
same problem (Score:2)
if you're just doing coding, might i suggest an old mac LC II? i have a terminal emulator for mine, and telnet to my powerbook (OS X). the scsi hard drive is noisy, but there's no reason you couldn't put the hard drive on the other side of the room (scsi spec calls for 6m cable lengths for that model). you could also boot it from a floppy without any hard drive. a mac LC I or II runs about $5. it makes an excellent webserver [12.237.66.223] also. rj-45 network cards go for about ten bucks on ebay, and 1 gig scsi hard drives can be found used for about 10 dollars.
big heatsinks (Score:1)
Anyone know if a Peltier cooler uses fans or are they pretty quiet?
Re:big heatsinks (Score:1)
But, other than that, they are great! They are solid state and just about the only (non-exotic) way to cool a processor to below-ambient (where you have to worry about condensation, or even frost on your processor)
It should be pretty easy to find some info on peltiers on the web...
I would suggest... (Score:1)
This system is reasonably priced (for what you get), it relatively small, and is completely 'fan-less'. A review of the system can be seen here [gerla.com] and it was discussed on Slashdot here [slashdot.org].
Of course, this is not exactly a 'mini-PC'; however, I would assume that someone who is fairly instrious and has a bit of time on their hands could mod the cooling system to a different case or simply mod the case appropriately to fit their needs!!!
Just a thought...enjoy!
Just get the right kind of heat sync... (Score:1, Insightful)
If you didn't want to go with water-cooling, (such as ripping apart a koolance [koolance.com] 1U case), you could instead just go with a convection-cooled style case similar to the Mac cube (iCube?).
Plycon [plycon.com] sells a nice assortment of different heat-syncs, the one you would be particularly insterested in is this [plycon.com] one, it's designed to use a moving air current to cool the CPU rather than a direct fan. If your using a slower or underclocked CPU, it probably won't take very much to keep it cool.
Your biggest problem will most likely be finding room for a large enough heat-sync that doesn't require a fan of some sort.
VIA C3 (Score:2, Informative)
Some of the VIA C3 chips [via.com.tw] can run with just a heatsink. They even have a list [via.com.tw] of suggested heatsinks and other parts to build a quiet PC. They are probably the best x86 solution you can find without making this a major home project. You did mention that processing power wasn't a concern and the main drawback of the C3 is that it's FPUs run at half the processors clockspeed.
don't forget some new laptops are totally silent (Score:2, Interesting)
But was VERY surprised, as a silence freak and hater of fan noise, that this thing must have no fan or something. It's TOTALLY SILENT!
The only thing you EVER hear from it is the itty bitty sound of writing data to the hard drive. And you know if THAT'S the only sound you hear, the rest is pretty damn quiet.
Anyway - I've been following the "How to Make a Silent PC" threads on Slashdot with great interest, and I think I accidently stumbled across a much easier solution.
This thing is a silent powerhouse 1000 mHz, 256meg RAM, intel 10/100 ethernet, 20gig hard drive box, ready to go. Highly recommended. So is my girlfriend's new Apple iBook.
Look into it. Much easier than the days you'll spend trying to make your own quiet PC.
How about VMWare? (Score:1)
If you make changes to an image that you don't like, it's often simple to roll it back.
I use it all the time at work, and have ten "machines" that I bounce among all day.
Check it out: well worth the $300.
Thermo Electric Cooling (Score:1)
Re:Thermo Electric Cooling (Score:2)
Hey-now that's an idea. Water cooling.
I'm sure that were you so inclined, you could make a purely passive water cooling system...a sufficiently large resivouir of water attached/surrounding a heat sink or plate. Make it big enough so that a 500MHz CPU won't boil it away overnight, and put some air-cooled fins in for heat dissipation.
Probably be tough to do though.
Build a generic one (Score:1)
Here's the set-up I'm looking at:
Approx Prices (on sale):
Antec Case: $50
Mobo: $100 (depends on mobo)
CPU: $100
HD: $100
GC: $50
RAM: $50 (to start)
Sound: $50 (search NewEgg for Audigy, or get mobo with sound)
Laptop (Score:2)
There's quite a few laptops that can be had fairly cheap I think I might suggest looking into older Powerbook laptops. Older PC laptops in many cases are clunky, hot, and I wouldn't REALLY trust them to be on 24/7. If you avoid the Powerbook 5300s you'll probably land a keeper. A particular model of note is the PB 2400 which is/was a subnotebook. It weighs about four and a half pounds and leaves the floppy and CD drive as external devices. You could stick YDL on it to do your coding work, it has revitalized many a Powerbook that is unable to run OSX. If you wanted a little more power you can find Wallstreet (older G3 based Powerbooks with 12 or 14 inch screens) PBs hovering around 500$ sometimes. Lombards and Pismos go for a grand or more if in good condition. Even if you went with a PC laptop it would probably be a bit more useful overal to you than a dedicated MiniPC sitting in your bedroom.
Laptop has Drawbacks (Score:2)
I originally considered using a laptop in a MiniPC application, but I wasn't able to find any really good prices on a working laptop with a broken display, and was concerned that a laptop is much more likely to be stolen than a small beige PC box.
We ended up using the old DEC 'Multia' (Intel P100, not Alpha) due to the built-in SCSI and PCI bus. These are showing up cheap in bulk lots, and unlike the Alpha Multias, the Intel models do not need/have fans.
Does it need really to be on 24x7? (Score:2, Informative)
I put my desktop PC to sleep whenever I'm not sitting at it. In sleep mode the disk spins down and the fan slows right down so it is completely silent. It takes about 2 seconds to wake up when I jog the mouse. This may be worth considering.
If it's got to respond to other stimuli, e.g. an incoming call on the modem, a network request, cron, etc, you may even be able to make it wake up temporarily, deal with the request, and then go back to sleep, perhaps even without needing to start up the fan or disk. I haven't worked out how to do this yet (APMS doesn't seem as configurable as I hoped), but it is my aim.
Re:Does it need really to be on 24x7? (Score:1)
My $.02
BookPC (Score:2)
I've used one for about 3 days when I was trying to build a multimedia box for hooking up to a TV before I settled on the higher powered (and louder) Shuttle SV24 system.
What about central cooling? (Score:2)
I've been looking for the same setup for quite awhile, except that I'd like it to be cheap as well and that eliminates most options.
Obvious solution... (Score:1)
Seriously, is locating the machine in a closet or in the room behind the wall an option? And if you don't need a monitor
Only one question (Score:1)
Here you have a kilobuck or more worth of computing equipment and it's built too stupid to regulate its own temp?
Well it's pretty simple to do just in hardware. But you can get pretty trick putting some feedback into the machine and letting it control yourself and learn some real hacking in the process.
My first, and most successful, attempt at this was with my DFI socket 7 motherboard, AMD K6-2 450 MHz processor (running overclocked at 500 MHz), 15 MB Maxtor hard drive, etc. etc.
First off all of this is installed in a discarded Gateway full size tower case. Picked that up for $15 and got lots of room. Plus it's got a 500 Watt supply that is loafing along with what I ask of it.
I took that case and sealed it shut with clear silicone sealant. The thing is air tight for the most part. I installed a case fan up front that draws air in and, of course, made sure that the air holes in front of where that fan is installed are open. In front of that fan I've installed a HEPA filter for a Hoover, picked that up at Wal Mart for $2 and it keeps things VERY clean inside.
The HEPA filter is important because any dust that does make its way in the machine will trap heat. Dust buildup kills electronics. Stop the dust before it gets a chance to collect in your heat sink and power supply.
So now I have very controled air flow. It comes in at the bottom and exits out the top via the power supply fan port. Air passes by everything.
Then I built a small circuit that monitors temperature at 6 points. I didn't really need 6 points, but I liked a nice even number and had the components. I placed one sensor just outside the case but behind the plastic and it monitors room temp. Another sensor monitors the temp of the CPU heat sink in the center of the sink and close to the CPU. Another sensor is attached to the main chip of the video card. Yet another monitors the exhaust temp, having been placed in the airflow path just outside of the power supply fan. The remaining sensors are just sitting in the case.
With that done I now have lots of data to tell me what gets hot and when.
Now what to do about it.
I ran wires from all three fans (Case input, CPU heat sink, and power supply) to a circuit board I made. The board is powered by the computer power supply using the origional CPU fan connections but indeed powers all three fans. I have played with resistor control of the fans but found it was just a heck of a lot easier to transistor switch them.
Yet another board ties it all together. I've played with a couple of different versions of this board, one analog (or hardware) and another digital (or computer controlled). What this board does is turn certain fans on or off based upon what's getting hot and how hot it's getting.
Keep in mind that I'm still playing with all this and it's a learning excersise. In other words I haven't got the computer controlled board doing much for me.
With my analog board it turns on the CPU fan when the temp is around 110 F (approx, this isn't rocket science). Once on it won't turn off until the temp drops below 98.6 (body temp). I'm just guessing here, didn't actually measure anything here, just going by "hot" and "cool".
Anyway, if the CPU temp does not drop a couple of degrees in a few minutes, then the power supply fan comes on. If the temp climbs still or does not drop within a few more minutes then the intake fan comes on. All fans stay on until CPU temp drops back down to "normal". "Normal" is defined as some degrees above room temp.
If the video chip gets "warm" then the intake fan comes on until it drops back to "normal"
I know this is all crude. But it's great fun and I'm having a blast building and tinkering.
The most important thing I've learned so far is that the CPU fan comes on from time to time, the other fans come on maybe twice a day when the room is really warm.
And I can't be fucking things up too bad because I ain't fried anything yet and this computer runs 24/7/365. Playing Quake or compiling programs can kick the fans on but that's to be expected. Other than that it's one hell of a lot more quiet in my office.
Oh, and for those of you in "energy challenged states" (hello you Californians who want to steal our lake to make electricity to heat your hot tubs) my power use has gone down some. I don't remember the actual measurements but there was a signifigant difference measured between "all fans on" and the way it normally runs now. I measured that difference in the AC current at the input to the power supply.
So go forth, have some fun, be safe.
And maybe one day the guys designing these computers will make these stupid boxes take care of themselves.
.
Hard disk is noiser than the fan (Score:1)
If your machine has (decent) power management, wait for your harddisk to go to sleep and hear how much quieter your machine is.
here it is! (Score:1)
The SignumData FutureClient! [signumdata.de]
It's German, It has no fans, It's expensive (so I've heard), It takes a P4, But It makes no noise!
H357