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Personal Transport? 46

Posted by Cliff from the to-segway-or-not-to-segway dept.
NaturePhotog asks: "IT clearly isn't "it", at least as far as personal transport goes--price and weight rule that out. I live in the SF Bay Area, and while regional transport such as BART is pretty good, there are a lot of gaps and annoyances in local transport. I'm looking for something like the RAD2GO E10 or Zappy to help fill those gaps. It doesn't need to be fast, but it needs to fold and be light enough to carry on BART, be able to handle some hills, and ideally have a range of about 10-15 miles on a charge. There are hundreds of electric scooters and dozens of sites, so figuring out what would be best is difficult to say the least. Any in the Slashdot crowd have experiences (good or bad) with something like this? Or suggestions for other alternatives?"
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Personal Transport? More

Personal Transport?

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  • Fold up sneaker-skate JetSneakers [jetsneakers.com] are the way to go! Why just sneak...when you can also streak?

    (calm yourselves, moderators, i'm joking, of course)
    • Hey.

      I once saw a guy wearing a normal looking pair of shoes that would roll ONLY when you lift your toes because they had one small set of wheels in the back side of the shoe.

      Does anyone know where to get these?

      NOTE: I am not looking for "Roller Shoes"... ya know... the ones with a full set of wheels... I want the ones with a full set of tread on the bottom with just wheels in the heel.
  • <sarcasm>

    Right here [ford.com]. It's pretty small and light, and it's perfect for urban transport...

    </sarcasm>

    Sorry, I just had to do it...

  • Bicycle (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    These are cool toys, but the 40-60 pound weight means that they're not something you want to carry around.

    However, as a longtime cyclist commuter, the 10-15 mile range is easily done on a bicycle. Better for you and the environment than a scooter. Yes, hills suck, but not as much as fighting with cars in traffic.

    There are some collapsable bicycles, but I've never found these to be worthy of riding more than 1-2 miles at a stretch.

    If your local transit company is forward thinking and has bike racks on the bus, then you're set. (Santa Barbara, I recall, had one bus per hour that dragged a trailer meant for bicycles, and I'd usually see it with 10 bikes on board.)

    Buy yourself something theft-proof, like a Schwinn, which is still great quality. My Schwinn mountain bike is my city commuter, outfitted with street slicks, fenders, a rack, and hasn't been touched or mauled once in 12 years. I've ridden it through snow, rain, below-zero weather, and it saved me a bundle and kept my weight down.

    Everyone comments that riding a bike in cold weather is cold, but it isn't as cold as you think I frequently had to ride slowly so as to not break a sweat. Your legs are very big muscles, and they generate a lot of heat once you get going. I'd be cold at the start of my 3 mile commute, then I'd be warm after 4 blocks, and perspiring for the last mile.

    Snow was no problem with street slicks, but ice is. Fresh, untracked snow is easy to ride in, but once the cars start packing it, your tire wants to follow the random crossing tire tracks, and it gets squirrely.

    If you're going to commute, get a good, reflective vest, a strong headlight, two tail lights (and clip a third one on you), and get another headlight for your helmet. Shining that head-mounted light into left-turning drivers, who are looking for a break in traffic and not anything else, are stopped cold by a bright light hitting them in the face.

    Finally, always carry a cell phone. It depends upon the area, but some areas have motorists that enjoy scaring cyclists. I've had cars cross four lanes of traffic, coming toward me, just to try to scare me. Or they'll speed up past me, dynamite the brakes, and cut me off in a right-hand turn. Ride defensively, live to be old.

    Above all, skip recumbant bicycles. Neato, but when you're sitting down that low, you can't see as well, and that little orange flag on a stick isn't going to protect you from motorists. Quite frankly, it is better to be thrown over the hood of the car that cuts you off, than to be whacked in the chest by the grill because you were riding a recumbant.
    • Unfathomably, the rules for bikes on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) prevent you from bringing anything but a fold-up (which you say doesn't cut it) on the train during peak hours, so unless you do a reverse commute, it doesn't help you any. This is crazy since peak hours are exactly when you want to encourage people not to drive. The problem being that it's too crowded during peak, they should add more cars and trains to solve the problem.

      The rules for bikes on the Commuter Rail in the Boston area were the same deal when I lived there (probably still are). Insane!

      P.S. Those recliner bikes also put your head at bumper level. Bad for the brain.

    • This is absolutly the right answer. I live in Sweden where we have real cold (-10C this morning). When the ice makes bike riding impossible, I usually walk, although I have only about a mile, so that might be a problem.

      Many people ride in the summer and take the bus in the winter here.

      My ~25 year old racer (Claud Butler, £80UK new 1977) is still going strong, and isn't attractive for the thieves either!

      When the power companies go bust, or the power lines break under the weight of the wet snow, and the busses slide off the road - your feet should still work even if you need to buy yourself some good boots!

      Best of luck with real low tech walking - its fun!
      • I live in Sweden where we have real cold (-10C this morning).

        -10C? Are you kidding? It easily gets colder than that in Texas! (for the celsius challenged, -10C = +14F)

    • You tried a Brompton? (US distributor site is at http://www.bromptonbike.com/ main site http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/) folk have told me they're not too bad to ride, but never had a use for one myself...or I'd buy one in a shot. Nice little movie of the bike being folded here... http://www.bromptonbike.com/Welcome/fold_movie.htm l

      Weight goes as low as 10.7 kilos. (23.5 lbs), not the lightest folding bike (Bike Friday claim their Crusoe is 16 lbs)

      Theres a site with a whole bunch of user reviews of the various folding bikes here (http://www.bikeaccess.net/folding_db.cfm). Interestingly these seem to be almost universally positive, and don't compare models - possibly because the things are so damn expensive noone ever rides more than one make?

      Totally agree with all the comments on making yourself visible. One of my friends was killed on his morning commute - be careful out there.
      • folk have told me they're not too bad to ride, I own a brompton, and it's actually better than my "normal" bike. Not cheap, tho
    • Good advice, mostly. Two points:

      1. Bike Friday folding bikes are widely regarded as just as ridable as a standard bike. They're not cheap, though. I don't have a URL but I think the company name is Green Gear. Use Google.

      2. Recumbents can be more dangerous in traffic because of the low profile, but they have some advantages as well. You'll get where you're going without pain, if you fall off you don't have far to fall, and if you hit something you won't go over the bars, land on your head, and break your neck (I know this from experience!). If you ride in traffic, some recumbents are tall enough to be seen - Linear LWB and some of the new dual-26" bikes like the Bacchetta come to mind.

      Personally, I ride my recumbent most of the time, when I can plan my trips for bike paths and low-traffic streets, or when riding with other cyclists (2 or more bikes are more visible than 1). For commuting in traffic, I use an old 10-speed upright and feel thankful that I don't have a long commute.

      • Just to add to the previous poster:
        Bike Friday bikes are not folding bikes. They are bikes that fold. My roommate of a few years ago had one. He loved it. He was a serious bicyclist and would do 150+ km on a sunday ride on his Bike Friday. Not to mention his trips all over the world. Bike Friday bikes are the best for the international traveller. The bike folds down to fit into one suitcase which becomes a bike trailer.

        This dosen't help the SF commuter though. Bike Friday bikes don't exactly fold down to fit in your back pocket, and you can't take bikes on BART.

  • try a skateboard, im serious (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Phork ( 74706 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @02:17AM (#3042810) Homepage
    If you are staying within SF, try a skateboard. Im not talking about the kind of skateboard you see people doing tricks on, im talking about one meant for going places. During commute hours, i can get places faster on my skateboard than i can on muni. As for distance, i skate 60 blocks all the time, no problem. You can take a skate board on every public transit system.
    If you're looking for a good place to buy a skateboard for transit, try purple skunk at 23rd and geary.
    • In many cases (no exaggeration) you can get there faster by leisurely strolling than you can by taking MUNI.

      On the skateboard subject, it can be a serious drawback to a commuter that skateboarding is illegal in SF (stupid). You may not care, but it could mean being very late for work on an important day. They do haul people off in cuffs for skateboarding sometimes, and often take their board, stranding them if it is not walking distance (although everywhere in SF is technically walking distance).

      Commuting wants to be reliable, which is the problem with bikes on BART during rush hour. You could probably get away with bringing your bike most of the time (I don't know), but the one time they stop you, you are stranded.

      • Are rollerblades verboten in SF?

        i used them with great success in DC. Not that much faster than the Metro, but there's really something to be said for not being crowded in dank underground passageways, watching the phosphorescent moss.
  • I've used a Razor to take through the mission to BART, to Embarcadero station, and then up the Embarcadero to Pier 29 (downhill from Coit tower).

    It was OK, but a motor would have been better. Also, the wheels are too small, so It's kind of dangerous if you are not constantly leaning back and ready to assume a standing position.

    I wouldn't use it on any serious hills, and even on a flat surface the wheels are too small to keep your momentum, even with good bearings (they come with crap).

    • I also like the Razor: It's light, it folds up, I can go pretty fast on it, but after about two miles, my shins start to hurt from the pressure difference... You put all your weight on one leg and kick with the other one, and unless your dual footed (ambipedrous?) you should consider this.

      Two miles should fill the gap in just about any regional public transit system--it does in car-friendly Phoenix.

      I bought my Razor (a real Razor) when it was first coming out and cost me over a hundred bucks. There are MANY cheap knockoffs that cost a fifth of the price in some cases, but be careful: you don't want some shoddily manufactured part coming off when you're going top speed down the straightaway.

      Just watch the terrain in front of you, watch out for holes in the concrete (those tend to gobble up front wheels) and stay on the smooth paved ground--riding on cobblestones is not fun.
    • The problem with Razors these days is that every little kid on the block has them and they're no longer seen as adult transport. The public perception of mini scooters has changed so much that i feel embarrased to use mine in the city now, whereas two years ago I felt quite comfortable skating to uni on it.
    • I've used a Razor on the hills - but the major problem IS the hills. I melted a perfectly good shoe painfully while trying to slow down once.. a fast motorbike is my preference ANYwhere, now, although that's obviously a bad idea for some people.

      -----> $o.o2

  • A bike is really your best bet. Depending on your needs, you could get a racing bike (fast on flat and slight hills), mountain bike (good for steep hills, cutting cross country) or some snazy folding one (good for taking on other modes of transport). As a bonus, you can keep fit at the same time.

    I currently use my bike for a half mile commute, but have previously used it for a six mile one. It is all nice a flat, so I've got a racing bike. I normally beat cars on the way in, cycle lanes are great for that :)

    I'd say the only things to worry about is somewhere to secure your bike at work (you could probably get some green grant towards installing something if you don't have anywhere) and changing facilities at work (after a 6 mile cycle you'll need to change, and suit + cycle chain is never pretty...)

  • I realize SF has a number of hills, but for relatively flat grades, there are roller blades with detachable blade parts--they snap off and leave you with a boot-like shoe for going up/down steps, onto railcars, etc.


    They aren't overly expensive (~~150 - 200) and might get the job done.

  • Pilot magazines are full of ads for folding electric and gas scooters. They are designed to fit in the tiny little baggage compartments on a Cessna 172 or a Piper Archer, so they're small and light. I've seen them on the web, but I'm too lazy to do the search right now since I'm supposed to be on my way to work.
  • Because it is SF - I haven't been to SF many times - but I remember it being rather "hilly". But I don't think the whole thing is, and may not be where you are going to use your transportation...

    With that said, I have to agree that a bike is a good thing - however, I would imagine it would be tough to bring onto a tram or whatnot (maybe even annoying to other passengers). Others have suggested skateboards, or scooter devices, which are smaller and lighter weight - but may not be legal in SF. So, what about a compromise here?

    Try a unicycle!

    Now, I have never ridden one, so I don't know how easy they are to ride - but I have seen people ride them, so they can't be too difficult. They can be rather small, fit into the "footprint" of a person on the sidewalk, have the ease of a bicycle and the portability of a skateboard. I don't know if it would be possible (or if it has been done) - but you might look into rigging a Sturmey-Archer multi-speed hub to the pedals to get some "gears" for inclines and such! Would probably take some serious machine work - but I am certain it could be done.

    I have posted here before my situation - I live in Phoenix, AZ (relatively flat), and I am in the process of building a recumbent electric vehicle from bicycle parts (a 26 inch and a 20 inch), and a pretty powerful electric motor (heh, that I have to later refit new bearings into - ugh). I have already got the pieces of the frame cut and ground to fit - this weekend will be "welding weekend" to bring the frame together - then test fit the wheels, etc. I then have to plan the steering system (under seat recumbent-style) and the motor drive and positioning.

    Actually, if you have a small welder, a grinder, a hacksaw (or angle grinder), and some time - building a recumbent really isn't that involved of a process, once you have the bike frames (I picked mine up at garage sales for $15.00 total). While it won't fit on a tram or BART easily, it might be something that can get you all the way in, instead...
    • My father scootles to the store all the time on one of those - a big 26" Semcycle. It's fine on the hills, but - IMHO - needs some more top end. If you're not in a terrific hurry and want to strengthen your back, uni is the way to go. It's also a fantastic full-body workout on long rides, as long as you get/build a proper air cushion seat.
      I can't stress the seat thing enough....

  • Feh! (Score:2, Funny)

    by J'raxis ( 248192 )
    Theyre called legs, idiot.

  • Thanks for the replies so far. As noted, bikes aren't allowed on BART during commute time (it's very crowded then, so it makes sense...unless you're commuting by bike). The Segway [segway.com], aka 'IT', is right out--I doubt they'd ever let that on BART because of the size and weight. Plus there's the cost for me...

    However, folding bikes are allowed, so the Bike Friday [bikefriday.com] looks like an interesting possibility.

    The area of SF from BART to my destination isn't too far (unless I run errands, too) or too hilly. The problem comes at the other end [maptech.com]. BART is at about 200' above sea level, and home is near one of those 1200' markers and about 3 miles from BART. I can drive and walk, but I'm looking for something to get rid of the driving part. The Bike Friday's seem better designed and geared, so the hills might be doable with them. I haven't ruled out an electric scooter, and have been referred to a scooter dealer in SF to start looking.

  • Bike Friday: although i haven't owned one personally, i've thought about it. They're great although not cheap (i think $700-2000 or so). Except for racing or hard-core off-roading i've heard they ride as good or better than most regular bicycles. But, I believe they don't fold up really really fast and easily - i think it takes a minute or 2 and is more like 'disassembly'. I don't know what the rules exactly are for BART, but my guess is that completely folded it would be allowed, but also partly folded might maybe be OK too... that would probably work out OK if it takes a minute to fold and then another to unfold...

    Scooter: i have a scooter (K2 Kicker) that i use with public transport (since May i've been in Munich Germany, although i was in Portland Oregon before). it is really easy to take on public transit - i usually don't even fold mine up - but i would say it's not so good for more than about a mile from the transit stop (i find the scooter's about 3 times faster than walking or about the speed of running) so a mile is about 10 minutes - anything more i don't find so great b/c the legs/back start to hurt and i really prefer my bicycle.

    2 Bicycles: another option if bicyles are not allowed on transit is to buy 2 bikes and park one permanently at your destination transit stop. Of course, this only works for a single route but that is fine for commuting. In your case, i think you could buy a really cheap junk bike and leave it at your destination and then use a better bike for you home ride - since you mentioned you've got 1000' vertical a maountain bike with lower gears would probably be easier. just ride to the stop, lock the bike, ride public transit, get off and unlock your other bike and you're off... of course, you also need 2 locks but that's minor.

    motorized scooters: although i personally find these quite annoying, but if you're the lazy type... i think there are pre-built models or add-on motors to human-powered scooters. many of these are still pretty small (i don't know if they fold and they're definitely larger and heavier than a Razor or my K2). although i think there's some question as to their being street/sidewalk legal - human-powered scooters themselves may be technically illegal, but you're unlikely to get in trouble, but with the motor that's a different story b/c of the speed and noise - the police may notice...

    just a side note: in general i find the attempts to link bicycles and public transit really poor in most cities - Portland Oregon is an exception where major efforts are made to accomodate bikes, but then Portland is a cyclist's city... Munich also has block-out rush hour times 6-9am and 4-6pm when bikes aren't allowed which sucks. I currently commute by bike (7 miles one way) about 4 days a week and then take the scooter/subway 1 day, but it sucks that i can't take my bike on the subway when it's raining really hard (i can if i leave work really early or late, but...).

    The coupling of bike and public transit is a great combination and i think the combination would allow many people who otherwise would not choose public transit a good option - to help get more people out of cars which is usually the goal of much of modern public transit. I do understand that public transit gets crowded and sometimes a bike just won't fit, but the solution should really be to try and add more capacity if it's full b/c not allowing bikes really limits people's choices 'forces' many people choose the car b/c the transit alone just doesn't cut it. If the train/tram's full then it's probably successful enough to warrant more and expanded service... i just don't see most public transit systems making any effort here.

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