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Hardware

Marine-proofing a Computer 45

Posted by michael from the not-those-kinds-of-Marines dept.
thaddjuice writes: "I'm interested in installing a computer on my sailboat to interface with the ship's navigation and communication systems. What I'm wondering is what needs to be done to a computer to protect it from salty air, potentially damp surroundings, and temperature extremes. What parts are most vulnerable? What about peripherals - can you protect keyboards, mice, and monitors from these conditions? Power is also a concern, it has to run off of boat batteries. Should I start with a laptop, desktop, or rackmount system?"
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Marine-proofing a Computer More

Marine-proofing a Computer

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  • He's building a ship that is mostly computer controlled: The Microship [microship.com]

    I'm sure if you ask nice-like he'll give you some tips.

  • Tips (Score:4, Informative)

    by PhaseBurn ( 44685 ) <PhaseBurn@PhaseBurn.net> on Monday March 11, 2002 @07:40PM (#3145785) Homepage
    Well, I used to live in fla, off the coast of Ft. Lauderdale... 2 miles from the beach my whole life, so, I've actually had some experience with this...

    First, I'd recommend the laptop as the start. You can rig the battery slot to run off the boats battery a lot easier than having to convert that to AC instead... That usually works the best, rather than converting power and worrying about a monitor and everything else..

    Secondly, they have clear plastic shims that a you should be able to pick up at most aquatic sports shops (Not fishing outlets)... They're used to protect diving equipment and other electronics on the boat. Personal suggestion is to just seal the computer inside a layer of this stuff (it'll conform to the keys and should provide some protection against the sun as well when using the system during that blinding sunrise/set). You will have to make arragements for airflow in/outtakes through the base of the stand, where you can make sure no water will seep into...

    The heating/cooling issue I've never had a problem with... granted, I've never kept a sysem out on a boat 24/7 before... As long as it's dry, I can't really imagine it being that much worse than just using it in a non-airconditioned enviornment... Maybe if you got a laptop with a mobile dock so you don't have to leave it out there 24/7 (not sure if that's something you'd want to do, but if it was my laptop, considering the security of the docks and everything, I'd never leave it not locked down) you could get one of those mobile docking stations inside, and just protect keyboard/mouse externally... the laptop would be completly sealed...

    Hope this helps some...

  • Sail (Score:1)

    by E1v!$ ( 267945 )
    They have some pretty good articles on proofing computers. One family uses a laptop, when not on they keep it in a vaccum bag. Each time they get back from a cruise they run it through diagnostics, replace parts with any corrosion etc etc.

    I code on the boat. My advice:just keep it dry. AND SECURE IT!!! Nothing like a 50k gust to throw the thing from one side of the cabin to the other.
  • You need to either 1) find a computer that was meant for use on a boat, or 2) find an enclosure and peripherals which is meant to house a computer on a boat.

    Normal computers are not hardened enough for that environment, nor do they take well to non-ventilated boxes. You can (if you want) look at computers meant for industrial and food service use. Food factories have to be able to wash down every surface that is open to the processing area, and industrial computers can take that abuse and often more. It'll probably be cheaper to get a computer from a company that makes one specifically for boats.

    If you insist on doing it without specialized components, well, good luck. Salt air will eat through computer parts like you wouldn't believe.

    -Adam

    The sea, she is a hungry creature, no?
    • Look Here [nauticomp.com] Amazing that a google search for marine computers brings up all the info you need without some smart ass /.'ers to tell use a F**king Search engine in the first place. Sigh... I getting too old for this ..

    • Re:Go find a shop that specializes in boat compute (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I am not a computer expert by any means, but I know a lot about boats and the marine environment. I would not use a non-marinized computer on a boat, but ESPECIALLY for something as critical as navigation.
      Instead, I would look at OceanPC or NAvigator PC or one of the other companies that sell computers designed and hardened to work in the marine environment. Also, there are some marinized laptops available- make sure you get one with a screen that is visible in sunlight- most are not bright enough.
      If you can sweat it out without it for a while, the cost of marinized bright displays is dropping and will continue to for a few years at least. This stuff will continue to get cheaper and cheaper.
      More information: the most popular software pkgs for navigation are The Cap'n, Nobeltec Visual Navigation Suite, and Maptech. There may be some new ones as the raster versus vector chart business sorts itself out. Recent issue of Practical Sailor and Powerboat REports carried evals of those packages, with, as I recall, the Nobeltec judged the best.
      If I were going to do this, which I have opted not to do for the time being, I would get either a marinized laptop with the brightest display I could afford, or hardwire into the boat a computer built for marine use, and with a separate display. Not small bucks either way, but much more dependable than taking a land-based computer to sea. Good luck, and DON'T forget paper charts etc etc.
  • I would say to start out with one of those "ruggedized laptops".....

    of course, if you REALLY wanted a desktop, you would need to use one of those flexible, waterproof keyboards (they're about $40).
    then you'll need to seal up the case to prevent water buildup. this is the trickiest part. It shouldn't be too hard to seal the thing in a tupperware container with a hole for exhaust and the cables to feed out of. I would reccomend putting a filter and a high powered fan over the hole to promote ventilation of clean air. of course, you'll have to keep the hole in a dry place. It is quite tricky

  • waterproof computing (Score:3, Funny)

    by obtuse ( 79208 ) on Monday March 11, 2002 @07:52PM (#3145866) Journal
    When I want to read in the bathtub, I just put my palmpilot into a ziplock. IR transparent too.

    So, put your entire boat into a big ziplock baggie, and you'll be fine. Everything on board will remain dry.
  • Before you laugh, hear me out. One of the problems everyone here mentions is that dry air needs to get in/out. How about this: case is sealed(w/silcone, I guess), no air goes in or out. You seal it in a dry place, to keep out moisture. How do you cool it you say? Just look at the title. Run hoses in and out for the water cooler, sealing the holes around them, and then you have a completely sealed case except for external connectors.
    • One thing about the ocean is that it's made up of cold water.

      You could cool a sealed box with heatsinks which are underwater. Or set up a water pump to move a lot of that grimey salty crap around the case in order to cool it.
      • I actually thought about using seawater directly, but as you said it's grimey salty crap and so it would gunk up/corrode the pipes. So I'd use it to cool the heatexchanger with freshwater in the system.
  • what those liquid cooled boxes, that way u can seal them up good an proper, no need for air intake and stuff.

    i'd give a url, but it'll only be the result of a google search so: http://www.google.com =)
  • Because you know, that wouldn't really be a bad question at all. Is there any way one could take a basic notebook or desktop, and after-market mod it in such a way that it would ahev a fair chance of surviving ground shocks from high explosives, thermal shock, EMP etc.? It might not be Marine-proof, but it might be interesting.
    • Lockheed Martin does this for the military. EMP proofing equipment is one of the hardest things to do for electrical equipment, you need to have layers of absorbant material such as Boron and lead while still having the machine usable. You can actually buy much of it on the internet through reputable dealers. Slashdot even ran an article [slashdot.org] about it before.
    • Heh.. if it is that kind of marine, you'll be wanting one of these JEDI gadgets - Yahoo news article [yahoo.com].

      "To test quite how much the gadget can take, the Army had a game of football using a JEDI as the ball - and it worked just fine afterwards."

      Fear not, although it's WinCE based, it can be rebooted in 12 seconds. Possibly the longest 12 seconds of your life if you're stuck in some remote warzone, I'd imagine, but there you go.
      • "Heh.. if it is that kind of marine, you'll be wanting one of these JEDI gadgets - Yahoo news article [yahoo.com]."

        The article refers to coordinates being transferred via the IRIDIUM satellite system. Yes, that is the system that fell out of the sky when Raytheon & Motorola decided it was a loser.

        Kind of like calling in an airstrike via POTS a la "Heartbreak Ridge"/Grenada.

  • VAX 11/750 (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 11, 2002 @09:18PM (#3146219)
    I've got a VAX 11/750 you can use... as an anchor.

  • No such thing (almost) (Score:3, Funny)

    by shaper ( 88544 ) on Monday March 11, 2002 @09:56PM (#3146305) Homepage

    True defense contractor story: a company thought they had developed a marine-proof computer enclosure for an old PDP-11 type computer. One of the first ones delivered to the fleet, a marine drove a fork-lift fork right through it.

    Another true story: my own group developed an off-aircraft enclosure for some MIL-STD-1553 components to connect to a standard PC. The outer structure of the enclosure was constructed of solid milled aircraft aluminum (we were also a limited-scale production facility of MIL-spec parts). The very first engineering demonstrator that we shipped, a Marine dropped an aircraft jet engine on it! It only made a small dent in one corner. The Marines approved it on the spot and ordered a bunch of them.

    Oh, wait, you didn't mean Marine as in the branch of the military? Um, never mind.

  • I don't know about rugged computers, but my partner, Sean, who works for Cisco, says that Cisco is working on water-tight routers for people such as yourself. Sean said I could join him for a super weekend testing his equipment for Cisco aboard a luxurious sailboat. I bet this thing would even survive most watersports!

    So anyway, I hope that we don't break any equipment or anything, because Cisco gear is so nice. I brought my whole Celine Dion collection to pass the time while Sean does the submersion tests and stuff ^_^.

  • Check out Steve Roberts' Microships [microship.com]. He's been working for the last few years building a pair of small, one-man watercraft loaded with computers, cameras, environmental sensors of every description, about a zillion different communications technologies, surround sound, remote control -- you get the idea. It's like someone asked the question "How much electronics gear *can* you cram into an oversized canoe?" and he set out to find out.

    His goal is "technomadism", which basically means being a major geek, but doing it out of doors and on the move.

    Roberts' solution to marine-proofing isn't for everyone, though. He builds sealed cases for everything, and pumps air into them to achieve a positive pressure, so that if/when leaks occur, air goes out rather than water coming in. Very effective, but also pretty expensive.

  • Sea World expertise (Score:4, Informative)

    by aethera ( 248722 ) on Monday March 11, 2002 @10:22PM (#3146406)
    I worked four summers as a field service tech, and I can promise you all manner of diifculty.

    Consider for instance our main stadiun. It had a dozen or so intelligent lighting fixtures mounted on tomcat truss about 80 feet above the main pool. These fixtures have fairly large boards and processors in them, but also could not be sealed because of the need for ventilation.

    Without ever coming into direct contact with the water these fixtures had troubles. The huunidity combined with micro-droplets of saltwater in the air was hell on the boards. Even the special ruggedized, sealed power cable connectors we used could only last a few seasons before needing replacement. DMX (signal for lighting) connectors failed even more frequently. Worse, the inner boards would accumulate enough salt deposits to cause them to short in some cases in just a few months of exposure to two whales splashing around. And these instruments are designed to be rugged, roadworthy fixtures for getting banged around on rock concert tours.

    Our solution, 1) by the best connectors we could get our hands on. This was the number one point of failure. Not just water resistant, but submersible. Look in specialty electronics catalogues, we only bought AC and DMX connectors, but they had many types available. We then wrapped all connection in several layers of amalgamating tape (great stuff!!). 2) We had a frequent overhaul plan where instruments were brought down, thoroughly cleaned (dunked in deionized water, allowed to dry 100%, prayers before powering up again)3)Pay attention to where air intake is located..add filters and larger fans to accomdate the reduction in airflow they cause.

    Basically, I'd invest in low cost equipment, keep a repair/replacement schedule, stay very vigilant about salt buildup.

  • You are asking the wrong group. (Score:3, Informative)

    by tdyson ( 530675 ) on Monday March 11, 2002 @11:08PM (#3146567) Homepage
    You really should be asking a group of sailors [cruisingworld.com]. They will for sure be able to tell you what does and doesn't work. We aren't talking about computing in the cockpit, so don't get too crazy about waterproof. Lots of people have laptops at their nav station and get e-mail via shortwave radio, so this isn't new ground. The trick is to secure the computer when underway. I'm not a big fan of laptops, so I'd look at this one [fultoncomputer.com]. Small and too the point without paying a huge mark up for a laptop.
    • It depends upon where you are sailing. When you come into the cabin to the navigation bay, you don't exactly get a chance to get changed first. In rough weather that means that any water on your oilskins can and does trip on the chart table. No worries, it is protected, but is your PC?

  • Watch the prices... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jmaslak ( 39422 ) on Monday March 11, 2002 @11:53PM (#3146726)
    My recommendation is to buy a few CHEAP laptops.

    Don't spend a lot of money, because you are going to destroy these.

    Sure, you can buy marine laptops, but, as you know, anything with the word "marine" in it immediately costs 5x what it should. If you can buy enough laptops to last the life of a marine laptop at the cost of one marine laptop, you are doing better then fussing about marine certified laptops. Besides, you'll want a new one in a couple of years anyhow!

    You might even consider used laptops.

    This is especially an option if boating for you means "going out on the weekends" versus "sailing around the world." If you sail around the world, then, yes, it probably is worth the money to buy a hardened laptop. Otherwise, spend your money on other parts of your boat! :)

    I would definatly recommend AGAINST desktops, as other posters have mentioned.

  • Panasonic Tough Books Series (Score:3, Informative)

    by UnifiedTechs ( 100743 ) on Tuesday March 12, 2002 @05:33AM (#3147783) Homepage
    It may be to much for you but I'd look at the Panasonic ToughBook series:

    This is for the Model 28
    DURABILITY FEATURES
    Designed using MIL-STD-810F test procedures
    Full Magnesium Alloy case with carry handle
    Moisture-resistant casing
    Dust-resistant LCD, keyboard and touchpad
    Sealed port and connector covers
    Removable HDD is mounted in shock-absorbing gel and stainless steel case
    Scratch-resistant coating
    Rugged hinges

    Notes on Humidity Testing for MilSpec:
    The Humidity test was performed in accordance with MIL-STD-810F, Method 507.4 (Aggravated). The test items were tested for operation near the conclusion of the fifth and tenth cycles. Each cycle was one day (24 hours) and the entire test was performed over ten days.The temperature was cycled between 86 and 140F with the relative humidity at 95% constant.
    Results:
    The Toughbooks continued to boot up and operate following each test, and there were no visual anomalies.

    Notes on Water Resestance Testing:
    The Water Resistance test was performed in accordance with MIL-STD-810F, Method 506.4, Procedure III (Drip). The test items were subjected to this test with the LCD open and the unit operating, but with ports closed. The Toughbooks were opened following testing to inspect for water intrusion.
    Results:
    The Toughbooks continued to operate during and following the 15-minute water drip test. There was no evidence of water intrusion.

    I mean if these things can't do what you want then I don't think anything will. And they even offer features like built in GPS, Wireless (802.11b) or 3 different Cellular technologies.

    A simple Pricewatch check shows them starting at $4000 for the 28 Series, this is the most water resistant model they show.
  • My dad is quite happy with his portable mac in the cabin, interfaced with GPS and sea-charts. Don't go overboard with the ruggedizing and marine proofing though, the laptop isn't coming out of the cabin. There's just an LCD display displaying chart, position, speed and such at the wheel. It's much easier to marine-proof the network-cables, and keep the laptop in a reasonably dry place in the cabin. Just make sure it doesn't slide all over the place.. but that's trivial. If you want, I can ask what system he has (I dont know of the top of my head, but I do know it works well). Drop me a note, if you're interested.

    //rdj

  • this is the "hack" solution - one part cheaper components, one part coolness, many parts your time. If you just want something to work, listen to one of the other posters and buy something that's designed for this task.

    1 - power - grab an old UPS. Most UPSs run off a 12V battery inside. It's trivial to mod this to run off your boat battery. In other words, old UPS == cheap AC inverter.

    2 - case - buy a liquid cooled system (e.g. KryoTech [kryotech.com]) and spend some time with silicon sealant hermeti-cizing the case.

    3 -

  • I know that most of you guys aren't going to believe this, but I was watching a show a while back extolling the virtues of the TRS-80 portable (there is some info here [geocities.com]). Basically, it was so rugged that people were still using them for non-speed critical applications. Heck, in this show one guy actually THREW ONE AT THE FLOOR. No, it didn't shatter, it bounced and THEN BOOTED! Try that with your Dell :)

  • foam (Score:1)

    by joekool ( 21359 )
    Would coating the the circuit boards, etc in that sealing foam, or maybe something like hot glue, etc work? just attach the heat sink first, and don't coat it, and cooling should work like normal?

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